Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #16

[CJPRINCESS]

IN the whole SIM card discussion people seem to be overlooking that Smich also dumped his phone according to the Meneses' cross examination on April 25th.

Sachak asked her about 647 219 7086



And the Blackberry that keeps getting brought up -- nothing on it after January 2013.

The Falconer report shows content deleted from the iPad including a photo of Smich with the gun the Crown alleges was used in the murder of Tim Bosma.

I can't remember but did anyone show MM the pic of the 4 phones? I believe MS pointed out the one he said he used. The one that was paid for by DM.

I don't recall seeing it when I went over all three examinations on AC'S blogs.

 

[Arnie M]

(BBM) Well sadly, if I recall correctly, LB went missing in June 2012, suspected already dead by LE beginning of July 2012.... Overlapping perfectly with when the incinerator was ordered and delivered. IMO it was not purchased one year prior to TBs disappearance in anticipation of that truck theft/robbery/murder, rather for an earlier 'problem' that DM was dealing with (LB). SS is extremely involved in that whole process. It remains to be seen with unreleased evidence how much MS may have known. In my opinion only.

Back 3 years ago we knew the incinerator was ordered in June 2012 and LB went missing around July 3rd and the timeline fit nicely. However at the recent trial we found out a trailer had to be built and SS did the test firing well into August so that ruined our timeline .

What I would like to know is if they tried using the SS homemade barrel-incinerator on LB and found out it did not work very well , and then decided to buy the Factory built Eliminator for future missions.

I would also like to know where that homemade incinerator is today .... did they crush and bury it at the farm or send it out for scrap or is still around somewhere ??

Having said all that , we must keep in mind that police say they think the Eliminator was used on LB so they must know something we dont. One thing about Dellen and his gang they sure had loose lips among themselves so maybe someone knows what happened to her.

 

[Inspector_North]

BBM
I saw MS testify to this question. He answered with something along the lines (paraphrasing) of DM being "much bigger", in better shape 3 years ago than he is now, that DM worked out and did "gymnastics" (?!) and had been "fully capable" of lifting/moving TB.

LOL! He supposedly knew everything about DM three years ago, but couldn't remember.

Not only where he buried the gun, but how and which direction he went.
Why he told DM that some chopping would be necessary when researching incinerators.
What he did with the SIM cards
How much of the Pot he sold
That he told his mom he was not going to get the Caddy after DM was arrested.
Which mission he referred to in some of his texts.

But he did remember

What DM told him immediately after TB was shot
What DM ordered him to do once they got to the farm
That DM was in the proper shape to lift TB by himself
That AM, MH, CN, and MM were mistaken in their testimony.
That Forensic teams were incorrect in their evaluation of the Eliminator, even though one of the best, if not the best forensic pathologist in Canada was on the scene and vacuumed all contents into a new vacuum unit to ensure the Bosma's were returned as much as Mr. Bosma's remains as possible.

Yeah, MS is a real source of truth. s/off

MOO

 

[Claroon]

I am surprised that any small amount of sleuthing I've done on other missing persons has come up dry in trying to make a connection to MS and/or DM because I feel some of us wonder if there have been a few more crimes before this major one.

 

[Arnie M]

But it's not true. Lifting a barbell is one thing...you've got control, proper grip, etc...and with good form, and being in good shape, one could easily bench or deadlift 170 lbs. Easy as pie. BUT...170 pounds of a murder victim, is an entirely different thing. And lifting it 5 feet above the ground to drop into a narrow chamber...there is no way DM is physically capable of doing that with his physique (even 3 years ago). Not a chance. Pick up a loose 45 pound plate, try and raise it over your head. Now imagine 4 of those in a duffle bag and picture yourself doing the same. DM is a former fat guy, who lost a bunch of weight, has close to zero lean mass and almost no muscle tone. He's a bean pole, not a power lifter. The only way Tim ends up in the incinerator is if MS helps him...either loading directly or using the bobcat. Likely the bobcat.

Too bad you had never seen a picture of the Eliminator .... it is only a 20 inch lift up to the deck of the trailer , then an 18 inch lift up to the walkway on the Eliminator , by then the hatch opening is less than waist high .

And if you had seen pictures of the Bobcat being hauled away you would notice the old dirt on the tracks and the old dirt in the front bucket , that loader had been parked for a long time .... besides if there was any hint it had been used on TB it would have been brought up in court.

And the other folks who keep bringing up forklifts need to be told that typical warehouse forklifts can only operate on hard surfaces like concrete , they would not move 6 inches in the soft soil at the farm.

A bit of huffing and puffing and DM could load TB by himself. Its not a big deal.

.

 

[Claroon]

A 2013 news report made me laugh when I re-read it, quoting his layer at the time I think, saying DM has never had a run in with the law, no criminal record (or something of those words) -- yeah, because he never got caught. We know now about lots of other illegal activity including 2 possible murders he thought he got away with.

Really, what is more criminal, grafitti under a bridge or theft of a pricey city wood chipper and a $20 +/- Bobcat?

Which reminds me, there is graffiti under the bridge near my home. Perhaps I should look for a Say10 tag.

 

[Inspector_North]

I am surprised that any small amount of sleuthing I've done on other missing persons has come up dry in trying to make a connection to MS and/or DM because I feel some of us wonder if there have been a few more crimes before this major one.

From what we know, DM liked to execute one of these missions just before leaving the country. He did it with LB when he went on a trip Croatia, and was planning to go to that BAJA in May 2013. Check his previous vacation schedule, that may help in your search.

MOO

 

[Claroon]

Too bad you had never seen a picture of the Eliminator .... it is only a 20 inch lift up to the deck of the trailer , then an 18 inch lift up to the walkway on the Eliminator , by then the hatch opening is less than waist high .

And if you had seen pictures of the Bobcat being hauled away you would notice the old dirt on the tracks and the old dirt in the front bucket , that loader had been parked for a long time .... besides if there was any hint it had been used on TB it would have been brought up in court.

And the other folks who keep bringing up forklifts need to be told that typical warehouse forklifts can only operate on hard surfaces like concrete , they would not move 6 inches in the soft soil at the farm.

A bit of huffing and puffing and DM could load TB by himself. Its not a big deal.

.

The reason the forklift is brought up is because LE presented the conversation. It's on billandrew's timeline:

"ay 3 4:56 pm Millard texts Smich: "I'm reaching your ways now, ete 50 mins." Ex 144: Millard phone texts
May 3 ?? Smich messages Millard: "ok." Ex 144: Millard phone texts
May 3 5:29 pm Millard texts Smich: "btw - love you <3". Ex 144: Millard phone texts
May 3 ?? Millard asks Schlatman (via text) if the junk forklift mast/forks are working. Day 28: Schlatman testimony
May 3 8:33 pm Bate phone calls Araujo re Dodge Ram ad. Ping in Etobicoke. Day 3: Araujo testimony
May 3 8:36 pm Bate phone calls Palimili re Dodge Ram ad. Ping in Etobicoke. Day 4: Palmili testimony"

and front end loader

pr 27 ?? Millard texts Schlatman: "unless you remember putting it back on the BBQ it should be at the hangar." Day 37: Harrison testimony
Apr 27 ?? Millard texts Schlatman: "put finding it on Mondays to dos." Day 37: Harrison testimony
Apr 27 ?? Millard texts Schlatman: "check that ether in front end loader is in good supply." Day 28: Schlatman testimony
Apr 27 ?? Millard texts Noudga: "I should be done in Waterloo in just a couple hours...care for company?" Day 41: Noudga testimony

 

[Arnie M]

The reason the forklift is brought up is because LE presented the conversation. It's on billandrew's timeline:

"ay 3 4:56 pm Millard texts Smich: "I'm reaching your ways now, ete 50 mins." Ex 144: Millard phone texts
May 3 ?? Smich messages Millard: "ok." Ex 144: Millard phone texts
May 3 5:29 pm Millard texts Smich: "btw - love you <3". Ex 144: Millard phone texts
May 3 ?? Millard asks Schlatman (via text) if the junk forklift mast/forks are working. Day 28: Schlatman testimony
May 3 8:33 pm Bate phone calls Araujo re Dodge Ram ad. Ping in Etobicoke. Day 3: Araujo testimony
May 3 8:36 pm Bate phone calls Palimili re Dodge Ram ad. Ping in Etobicoke. Day 4: Palmili testimony"

and front end loader

pr 27 ?? Millard texts Schlatman: "unless you remember putting it back on the BBQ it should be at the hangar." Day 37: Harrison testimony
Apr 27 ?? Millard texts Schlatman: "put finding it on Mondays to dos." Day 37: Harrison testimony
Apr 27 ?? Millard texts Schlatman: "check that ether in front end loader is in good supply." Day 28: Schlatman testimony
Apr 27 ?? Millard texts Noudga: "I should be done in Waterloo in just a couple hours...care for company?" Day 41: Noudga testimony

We have covered this endless times already .... just sounds like typical boss to employee instructions .... probably plenty of similar daily texts we have never seen .

If DM had captured a 300 lb Sumo wrestler , had his incinerator already in the hangar , then yes , I expect he would use the forklift , just like he used it to tip over the Mustang he was dismantling in an older video.

But all that is beside the point , TB was loaded up at the farm , not the airport..

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

A thought - if you accept MS story as completely true - Doesn't that basically also get DM away from 1st degree murder as well? MS has DM just kind of snapping and turning into a lunatic to get the truck. That's 2nd degree murder isn't it?

 

[Claroon]

We have covered this endless times already .... just sounds like typical boss to employee instructions .... probably plenty of similar daily texts we have never seen .

If DM had captured a 300 lb Sumo wrestler , had his incinerator already in the hangar , then yes , I expect he would use the forklift , just like he used it to tip over the Mustang he was dismantling in an older video.

But all that is beside the point , TB was loaded up at the farm , not the airport..

Only according to MS, no?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

BBM
I saw MS testify to this question. He answered with something along the lines (paraphrasing) of DM being "much bigger", in better shape 3 years ago than he is now, that DM worked out and did "gymnastics" (?!) and had been "fully capable" of lifting/moving TB.

I wanted to ask you & ABro what your impression of MS is, having been in the courtroom. (Or anyone else who might have attended the proceedings.)

 

[XiolaBlueX]

But it's not true. Lifting a barbell is one thing...you've got control, proper grip, etc...and with good form, and being in good shape, one could easily bench or deadlift 170 lbs. Easy as pie. BUT...170 pounds of a murder victim, is an entirely different thing. And lifting it 5 feet above the ground to drop into a narrow chamber...there is no way DM is physically capable of doing that with his physique (even 3 years ago). Not a chance. Pick up a loose 45 pound plate, try and raise it over your head. Now imagine 4 of those in a duffle bag and picture yourself doing the same. DM is a former fat guy, who lost a bunch of weight, has close to zero lean mass and almost no muscle tone. He's a bean pole, not a power lifter. The only way Tim ends up in the incinerator is if MS helps him...either loading directly or using the bobcat. Likely the bobcat.

Yep, I understand what you are saying, and know that 'dead weight' is harder to lift/move. However, I can't be too sure how much of a bean pole, or how much lean muscle mass he may or may not have had a few years ago. Anyhow, not to be too graphic, I'm imagining it would be a lot easier for one person to drag the 170 lbs if the victim was being moved (in a tarp possibly) from the tailgate/box of truck to the incinerator (I haven't pulled up the specifications right now, just speculating) as it would be closer in height. However........ Still leads me back to it then likely needing two people to transfer TB into the tailgate/truck box in the first place then. Imo only.

 

[Elisabeth]

We have covered this endless times already .... just sounds like typical boss to employee instructions .... probably plenty of similar daily texts we have never seen .

If DM had captured a 300 lb Sumo wrestler , had his incinerator already in the hangar , then yes , I expect he would use the forklift , just like he used it to tip over the Mustang he was dismantling in an older video.

But all that is beside the point , TB was loaded up at the farm , not the airport..

did DM know on May 3 who is victim would be? and how much he would weigh?

 

[canadiangirl]

Is it not true that the photos and messages recovered from Smich's devices had all been deleted? And all the SIMs were lost or destroyed. So it seems he took all the steps to erase anything incriminating from his phone and chat history, apart from smashing the devices into bits and disposing of them.

If he knew LE was coming after him, and the devices were crappy anyways he had more then enough time which makes me wonder why he didn't destroy them.

 

[Elisabeth]

Back 3 years ago we knew the incinerator was ordered in June 2012 and LB went missing around July 3rd and the timeline fit nicely. However at the recent trial we found out a trailer had to be built and SS did the test firing well into August so that ruined our timeline .

What I would like to know is if they tried using the SS homemade barrel-incinerator on LB and found out it did not work very well , and then decided to buy the Factory built Eliminator for future missions.

I would also like to know where that homemade incinerator is today .... did they crush and bury it at the farm or send it out for scrap or is still around somewhere ??

Having said all that , we must keep in mind that police say they think the Eliminator was used on LB so they must know something we dont. One thing about Dellen and his gang they sure had loose lips among themselves so maybe someone knows what happened to her.

Ironically they likely didn't burn the old incinerator in the new incinerator.....

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

If he knew LE was coming after him, and the devices were crappy anyways he had more then enough time which makes me wonder why he didn't destroy them.

He obviously was hoping they werent going to come for him. And he was still poor so couldnt just land a better phone particularly with the guy who paid him arrested.

 

[Jimmy Conway]

Long time listener, first time caller.

I know others have alluded to the MWJ (Big Iisho/Krucifix, now Squishy) connection, I just want to expand on it a bit further.

IMO, the &#8220;These are coming to get me&#8230; These guys don&#8217;t f&#8211;k around, they&#8217;re gonna come get me.&#8221; is about him and his crew.

MWJ and MS allegedly "attended St. Thomas More Elementary in Mississauga" together.
(http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?246816-Matthew-Ward-Jackson/page21)

Also:
"I dunno. If I were in a situation where I had to rat on MWJ in order to save my bacon, I would be very, very scared.
MWJ has too many close buddies who own guns and don't abide by the law.
LE could throw MWJ in jail for the rest of his days, and I would be watching my back until the end of mine...which, going by the stuff I have seen in people's social media accounts, would come rather sooner than I would like."
.... "If I were DM, MS or CN, especially CN, I would be terrified."
(http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?246816-Matthew-Ward-Jackson/page14)

I'm sure this is why he can't remember wear the gun is, as many others have mentioned. Didn't CN wear red shoes her first day in court?

(modsnip)

Just wanted to give a quick shout out to Billandrew, you're the man buddy. Great stuff!

ALL JMO

 

[canadiangirl]

He obviously was hoping they werent going to come for him. And he was still poor so couldnt just land a better phone particularly with the guy who paid him arrested.

I think if you ditched the murder weapon you had to suspect they were coming next and you'd get rid of all/any incriminating evidence. Including phones. Pay as you go doesn't cost a whole lot and he had all the drugs to sell to hold him over. Or Marlena had a job. Where there's a will there's a way

 

[Arnie M]

Only according to MS, no?

Too bad you didn't get to hear the testimony and see the video of them pulling the incinerator to the hangar and unhooking it and the truck being moved , and not one single forklift was seen .