Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #3

[Abitcountry]

So the incinerator was delivered to the Mississauga Millardair hangar in 2012. How was it moved to the farm in Ayr? Was the trailer built to transport it to the farm back then or was it more recent than that?

Apparently, they told the incinerator company at the time of purchase that the intention was to mount the unit on a trailer. The Tristar people were somewhat struck at their rather innovative suggestion it seems. Early posts seem to suggest that a custom trailer was made for it possibly at the hangar here.

 

[deugirtni]

....
And, worry about the fire spreading was probably needless. The newly planted corn was just a stubble, and live plants don't turn into a scorching blaze. The ground was wet and nothing immediately flammable nearby. I always have a hose handy out in the field when I burn stuff, but I've never needed the hose. The fire contains itself because unless the area is extremely dry, once what you're burning dies down, the fire dies down too. It doesn't spread to live grass and plants in the area.

And this may explain the likelihood that neighbours or passers-by saw the fire but didn't report it (perhaps someone did, but not likely a local resident: the FD does NOT want non-emergency calls in the middle of the night. They are understaffed and need to keep their engines and crew for REAL blazes like the barn fire in Puslinch a month or so ago that killed so many horses., or a family home). If you see people attending the fire, even more reason to think the people merely don't have a burn permit(would explain burning at night) or might be contravening a bylaw, but there's rarely a reason to suspect criminal activity. Police, same story. I ran out to assist with hit and run in front of my house at 2:00 a.m.; called 911 immediately and the volunteer fire department was on the scene quite quickly, but the OPP took 40 minutes. While the officer was measuring the skid marks, I asked how come it took them so long to respond. He said they had 3 cars on that shift to cover something like 600 square km of rural area.

There are LOTS of odd things going on on a regular basis, including gunfire, little of which is criminal. Unless one is very sure something is an emergency or a crime in progress, calling emergency responders may make them unavailable for a real crisis.

The tusks in the burn area were not newly planted corn, they were dried out remnants from the previous year's growing season. In Ayr where the farm is located, corn wouldn't normally be planted until late May or even later. I think they are very *lucky* that the whole field didn't start blazing. I don't have the weather stats for that time period to know how wet or dry it had been, but looks like corn field remnant fires are not all that uncommon. And to think they were using an accelerant, .. it just boggles my mind. Imagine if the fire had spread like wildfire, as it has sometimes been known to *do* in a cornfield, even *without* accelerant. Emergency vehicles show up, and what do we have here? Jeez, what a risk they took.. another act of complete stupidity, imho.

I am still surprised that neighbours wouldn't have called the FD if an accelerated blaze was seen in the middle of the night at an unattended farmland with outbuildings in their neighbourhood.. if for no other reason than to ensure the fire would not spread to others, where perhaps there *are* live animals, people, crops and homes. When someone sees a big blaze out of their window at a vacant farmland in the middle of the night, wouldn't they call the FD, rather than second guess themselves as to whether it *may* not be an emergency? Who would take the chance? Better to be safe than sorry? If the bonfire took place in the daytime, that could explain it? Or if nobody happened to notice, although I would imagine the smell would have made neighbouring properties take notice, imho.

Here are a couple of articles from not that far away, regarding off-season cornfield fires, just for information. One in late October in Brant County, and one in early May in Woodstock.

http://www.1047.ca/news/local-news/fire-crews-battle-cornfield-fire-just-outside-of-woodstock/

http://www.brantnews.com/news-story/6046082-cornfield-catches-fire/

 

[ArianeEmory]

The tusks in the burn area were not newly planted corn, they were dried out remnants from the previous year's growing season. In Ayr where the farm is located, corn wouldn't normally be planted until late May or even later. I think they are very *lucky* that the whole field didn't start blazing. I don't have the weather stats for that time period to know how wet or dry it had been, but looks like corn field remnant fires are not all that uncommon. And to think they were using an accelerant, .. it just boggles my mind. Imagine if the fire had spread like wildfire, as it has sometimes been known to *do* in a cornfield, even *without* accelerant. Emergency vehicles show up, and what do we have here? Jeez, what a risk they took.. another act of complete stupidity, imho.

I am still surprised that neighbours wouldn't have called the FD if an accelerated blaze was seen in the middle of the night at an unattended farmland with outbuildings in their neighbourhood.. if for no other reason than to ensure the fire would not spread to others, where perhaps there *are* live animals, people, crops and homes. When someone sees a big blaze out of their window at a vacant farmland in the middle of the night, wouldn't they call the FD, rather than second guess themselves as to whether it *may* not be an emergency? Who would take the chance? Better to be safe than sorry? If the bonfire took place in the daytime, that could explain it? Or it nobody happened to notice, although I would imagine the smell would have made neighbouring properties take notice, imho.

Here are a couple of articles from not that far away, regarding off-season cornfield fires, just for information. One in late October in Brant County, and one in early May in Woodstock.

http://www.1047.ca/news/local-news/fire-crews-battle-cornfield-fire-just-outside-of-woodstock/

http://www.brantnews.com/news-story/6046082-cornfield-catches-fire/

Just curious, but you often make posts like this regarding the farm neighbors. If I may ask, is it that you think the neighbors were lax in reporting what went on, or are you questioning whether the reported events happened at all? Sorry, I can never quite tell.

 

[MsSherlock]

I'd like someone to tell me one concrete thing that DM actually worked at. And on the list goes.

lol Just reading this statement made me laugh!! When DM was arrested and the gang here at WS started to do their work, it became pretty obvious that DP, DM's lawyer at the time, was selling everyone a bit of a tale. On one hand there were reports of the brilliant DM- child protege at the controls of planes and helicopters, a suave young man educated at the Toronto French School, the CEO of a multi million dollar MRO operation-supervising all sorts of aircraft employees, a sophisticated world traveller, real estate tycoon and young man who succeeded at everything. A man worthy of being framed or taken advantage of.

But- within a very short time period it was pretty clear that DM's achievements weren't quite as incredible as his original lawyer led the public to believe. High school drop out, expelled from college and CEO of nothing. However, it does look like he successfully killed 3 people, looks like he'll be successful in getting a life sentence and he's currently a contender for membership into the "serial killer" club. MOO

 

[palisadesk]

I also read something to the effect that they may have recovered some remains of LB and that not all has been returned to her family until the trials yet to be held regarding her disappearance later this year. Could be DNA evidence and skeletal remains as well.
.

Ann Brocklehurst's site seems to contradict this, as seen here:
http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/tag/laura-babcock

In contrast, none of the evidence in the Laura Babcock case has been made public. There is also no body although the Hamilton Spectator reported that its sources believe Babcock was incinerated shortly after her disappearance in July 2012.

 

[Abitcountry]

lol Just reading this statement made me laugh!! When DM was arrested and the gang here at WS started to do their work, it became pretty obvious that DP, DM's lawyer at the time, was selling everyone a bit of a tale. On one hand there were reports of the brilliant DM- child protege at the controls of planes and helicopters, a suave young man educated at the Toronto French School, the CEO of a multi million dollar MRO operation-supervising all sorts of aircraft employees, a sophisticated world traveller, real estate tycoon and young man who succeeded at everything. A man worthy of being framed or taken advantage of.

But- within a very short time period it was pretty clear that DM's achievements weren't quite as incredible as his original lawyer led the public to believe. High school drop out, expelled from college and CEO of nothing. However, it does look like he successfully killed 3 people, looks like he'll be successful in getting a life sentence and he's currently a contender for membership into the "serial killer" club. MOO

Thank you so much...I have been thinking the same thing For some time now. I doubt that DM would even have a basic GED....there is reference to his handwiting as in a letter to CN but when a sample of it appears, be damned he does not write---he actually prints and not in a sophisticated or mature still but much in the fashion of an elementary school kid.
I do remember his first lawyer waxing poetic too about his being a "philosopher"....:scared:...and on and on the B>S> has gone. I think he surrounded himself with a bunch of lackies who believed the crap he spued and did all of his bidding. He made himself a big frog in a little pond of people the likes of a petty thief like MS.
I cannot for the life of me understand why a so called university educated CN would have any interest in him expect that she believed all his BS about having money and got sucked in by his so called high lifestyle. In actual fact he probably owned nothing in his own right and was squandering what was left of the companies assets. :gaah:

 

[ArianeEmory]

Thank you so much...I have been thinking the same thing For some time now. I doubt that DM would even have a basic GED....there is reference to his handwiting as in a letter to CN but when a sample of it appears, be damned he does not write---he actually prints and not in a sophisticated or mature still but much in the fashion of an elementary school kid.
I do remember his first lawyer waxing poetic too about his being a "philosopher"....:scared:...and on and on the B>S> has gone. I think he surrounded himself with a bunch of lackies who believed the crap he spued and did all of his bidding. He made himself a big frog in a little pond of people the likes of a petty thief like MS.
I cannot for the life of me understand why a so called university educated CN would have any interest in him expect that she believed all his BS about having money and got sucked in by his so called high lifestyle. In actual fact he probably owned nothing in his own right and was squandering what was left of the companies assets. :gaah:

And she stayed with him after seeing the inside of that filthy truck. (Not Tim's, Dellen's.)

Multiple women in DM's life clearly needed some better critical thinking skills when it comes to mate selection. One of them was going to marry him.

And they all need to read The Gift of Fear.

That said, so far I am withholding judgement on CN: her level of knowledge and involvement, or to put it bluntly, did she know a man had been killed and cremated in that incinerator.

I believe we--myself included--have a natural bias because she DOES seem to come from a good family, has or will have a career (I guess? Or is that still true?) and we seem to lean towards thinking she will do the right thing.

But she didn't. Not until she was arrested.

So it's important to remember that sociopaths can come from good families and be pretty and college-educated.

I suppose she could have been blinded by love. If so, color me unmoved.

 

[deugirtni]

I took deugirtni's comment to mean that DM and MS planned to burn all incriminating pieces of evidence before late morning the next day, May 7? If the incinerator burned through the night, they might have thought it logical to move the eliminator after it's done its job to the farm (a ten minutes' drive), hide it away in the trees, and finish burning through pieces of clothing or other items stained with blood by 6 am.

At least, that's what I assume happened... But I'm up for other theories, especially since I haven't kept a running track of all the deets of the trial.

Thank you, yes. My point was only in response to someone enquiring why the duo would have burned the seats in an open fire on the Ayr farm property. Whether they did the two at exactly the same time, or whether the incinerator was left burning away at the hangar while they went to burn the seats in Ayr, or waited until the incinerator was finished and then lugged it to Ayr to sit there while the seats were burned in the cornfield.. doesn't really matter.. was just theorizing that they could have realistically done both, in different places, conceivably by sunrise the following day (Tuesday).

I'm assuming that since DM told employees not to appear on Tuesday at the hangar, the incinerator was still in progress, since DM didn't seem to be bothered by the fact that AJ was seeing the truck with shattered window and without seats and carpet, even though TB's missing truck was all over the news. It had to have been the incinerator that he didn't want AJ to see. MOO

Just out of curiosity...... considering that the incinerator was reportedly 'smokeless' (according to the news article posted upthread from something like 2003).. and considering that it is fueled by propane... and considering that the incinerator is 'mobile'.. is it conceivable that the thing could have even been in operation during transit? Silly thought.. but.. picturing officers pulling over a truck carrying a 10 foot tall apparatus down the road.. asking to see inside. oops!

 

[matou]

I think CN knew that someone was killed and cremated in the incinerator but I think it's nice that you believe she was blinded by love.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I think CN knew the someone was killed and cremated in the incinerator but I think it's nice that you believe she was blinded by love.

Heh, I was just listing options. In my earlier post I said I was withholding judgement, but by the end of writing, I realized I am judging. Ok, I'll say it: I think we're being a little too easy on her, maybe due to that hope that she WILL do the right thing.

 

[Abitcountry]

Ann Brocklehurst's site seems to contradict this, as seen here:
http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/tag/laura-babcock

thanks for the reference....I was certain that I had read that DM was going to represent himself in the court case re Laura Babcock........Just proves my point further that his ego has run away with itself......Complete and utter madness.
How does the saying go about people who try such an endeavour--something about having a fool for a client.
The article also makes mention of the fact that the authorities have strongly recommended that DM not take on his own defence. Could be that they know something of the evidence and case against him.

 

[deugirtni]

The dairy farmer saw plumes of smoke from DM's farm while milking his cows, so wouldn't that imply the farm burnings took place when there was daylight? The incinerator was running through the night. I do agree that the body was likely incinerated at the hangar and the seats were burned at the farm, but IMO they occurred at much different times.

I forget what time the dairy farmer said that he saw the plume of smoke? But I am assuming it was fairly early in the morning, perhaps even before daylight.. farmers, from my understanding, get up pretty early! I'm not sure though whether the seats were burned on the same night as the truck was stolen, or if it was the following night, or if that has for sure been determined.

 

[ArianeEmory]

thanks for the reference....I was certain that I had read that DM was going to represent himself in the court case re Laura Babcock........Just proves my point further that his ego has run away with itself......Complete and utter madness.
How does the saying go about people who try such an endeavour--something about having a fool for a client.
The article also makes mention of the fact that the authorities have strongly recommended that DM not take on his own defence. Could be that they know something of the evidence and case against him.

And who else did we know who represented himself?

Ted Bundy.

In fact, he used it as an advantage in one of his prison escapes.

 

[Wollander77]

I cannot for the life of me understand why a so called university educated CN would have any interest in him expect that she believed all his BS about having money and got sucked in by his so called high lifestyle. In actual fact he probably owned nothing in his own right and was squandering what was left of the companies assets. :gaah:

I'm genuinely curious to see the state of DM's finances. While early on, journalists reported that DM was named heir to a relatively successful business, which was worth apparently millions, they gradually revealed that he hadn't necessarily taken the steps to preserve his family's legacy. Was he so lacking in funds that he decided to steal a diesel truck for a race he could've passed over (do you make money off of Baja racing)? Did the plan to steal a truck originate from a desire to commit a crime for its own sake? Or a mix of both? The thought that TB died because of such a senseless motive (simple, awful greed) saddens me, because I didn't think it could be true three years ago. Now... I guess I'm thinking differently, trying to make sense of such a stupid, tragic crime.

 

[deugirtni]

I wonder if the propane tank attached to the incinerator was empty? so burn seats with loose fuel

Sorry I am trying really hard to catch up, but every time I catch up I find another 50 posts! Argh! Anyway, I had mentioned earlier.. I wonder if LE found a receipt for propane, or indication of a propane purchase somewhere in DM's property - vehicle.. house.. trailer.. hangar.. because, it sure would have been awful to have run out of fuel midway through a cremation!

 

[flipflop]

lol Just reading this statement made me laugh!! When DM was arrested and the gang here at WS started to do their work, it became pretty obvious that DP, DM's lawyer at the time, was selling everyone a bit of a tale. On one hand there were reports of the brilliant DM- child protege at the controls of planes and helicopters, a suave young man educated at the Toronto French School, the CEO of a multi million dollar MRO operation-supervising all sorts of aircraft employees, a sophisticated world traveller, real estate tycoon and young man who succeeded at everything. A man worthy of being framed or taken advantage of.

But- within a very short time period it was pretty clear that DM's achievements weren't quite as incredible as his original lawyer led the public to believe. High school drop out, expelled from college and CEO of nothing. However, it does look like he successfully killed 3 people, looks like he'll be successful in getting a life sentence and he's currently a contender for membership into the "serial killer" club. MOO

Sounds very similar to MR in the T.Stafford case.

 

[Abitcountry]

Sorry I am trying really hard to catch up, but every time I catch up I find another 50 posts! Argh! Anyway, I had mentioned earlier.. I wonder if LE found a receipt for propane, or indication of a propane purchase somewhere in DM's property - vehicle.. house.. trailer.. hangar.. because, it sure would have been awful to have run out of fuel midway through a cremation!

I had wondered the very same thing .....and it came as no comfort that the manufacturer boasts that the da##@ thing is economical on fuel.

 

[flipflop]

I'm genuinely curious to see the state of DM's finances. While early on, journalists reported that DM was named heir to a relatively successful business, which was worth apparently millions, they gradually revealed that he hadn't necessarily taken the steps to preserve his family's legacy. Was he so lacking in funds that he decided to steal a diesel truck for a race he could've passed over (do you make money off of Baja racing)? Did the plan to steal a truck originate from a desire to commit a crime for its own sake? Or a mix of both? The thought that TB died because of such a senseless motive (simple, awful greed) saddens me, because I didn't think it could be true three years ago. Now... I guess I'm thinking differently, trying to make sense of such a stupid, tragic crime.

I don't think TB's truck was the 1st vehicle that DM and gang stole. JMO

 

[deugirtni]

That's plausible. AFAIK the cell phone activity does not support them returning to the farm on Tues morning, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.


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I haven't looked back to check for sure.. but from what I remember, the people who testified on Thursday from the Ayr area,.. weren't they all mostly guessing at the dates? ie 'early in the week', or whatever.. as opposed to 'May 6'? I am wondering if while TB was being cremated in the incinerator at the hangar, and the employees were asked to stay home, the duo were spending that time removing the seats, plate, carpet, etc, from the truck.. and then took that stuff back to Ayr, perhaps burning it in the cornfield on the Tuesday night?

Yes.. he wasn't sure if it was the Tues morning or the Wed morning (this is from Adam Carter's live blog):

2:50 PM
Next witness is Steve Henhoeffer. He's a dairy farmer in the Ayr area by the Millard farm.
2:50 PM
He says he doesn't know Dellen Millard.
2:50 PM
He says he works long hours, early mornings and sometimes late nights.
2:52 PM
Henhoeffer says early one morning while milking the cows he saw smoke in the area. "It was an early spring morning - I noticed smoke coming from the area of the Millard farm. It was very odd that thick, black and grey smoke would be coming up."
2:53 PM
He says his property is on an incline compared to the Millard farm.
2:55 PM
He says he saw the smoke on a May 7 or May 8 around 6 a.m. "The air was very still that morning, so it went straight up. It was blackish, grey smoke I saw. It dissipated very quickly."
2:56 PM
He says he had never seen smoke like that before on the property.
2:56 PM
Defence doesn't cross examine. Henoeffer is excused.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Sorry I am trying really hard to catch up, but every time I catch up I find another 50 posts! Argh! Anyway, I had mentioned earlier.. I wonder if LE found a receipt for propane, or indication of a propane purchase somewhere in DM's property - vehicle.. house.. trailer.. hangar.. because, it sure would have been awful to have run out of fuel midway through a cremation!

You might not have caught up enough yet, but a barrel marked kerosene was found in the barn in September 2013.