Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #3

[swedie]

The tusks in the burn area were not newly planted corn, they were dried out remnants from the previous year's growing season. In Ayr where the farm is located, corn wouldn't normally be planted until late May or even later. I think they are very *lucky* that the whole field didn't start blazing. I don't have the weather stats for that time period to know how wet or dry it had been, but looks like corn field remnant fires are not all that uncommon. And to think they were using an accelerant, .. it just boggles my mind. Imagine if the fire had spread like wildfire, as it has sometimes been known to *do* in a cornfield, even *without* accelerant. Emergency vehicles show up, and what do we have here? Jeez, what a risk they took.. another act of complete stupidity, imho.

I am still surprised that neighbours wouldn't have called the FD if an accelerated blaze was seen in the middle of the night at an unattended farmland with outbuildings in their neighbourhood.. if for no other reason than to ensure the fire would not spread to others, where perhaps there *are* live animals, people, crops and homes. When someone sees a big blaze out of their window at a vacant farmland in the middle of the night, wouldn't they call the FD, rather than second guess themselves as to whether it *may* not be an emergency? Who would take the chance? Better to be safe than sorry? If the bonfire took place in the daytime, that could explain it? Or if nobody happened to notice, although I would imagine the smell would have made neighbouring properties take notice, imho.

Here are a couple of articles from not that far away, regarding off-season cornfield fires, just for information. One in late October in Brant County, and one in early May in Woodstock.

http://www.1047.ca/news/local-news/fire-crews-battle-cornfield-fire-just-outside-of-woodstock/

http://www.brantnews.com/news-story/6046082-cornfield-catches-fire/

BBM - It's been stated in MSM the time SH saw a plume of grey black smoke was "around" 6am. Had it been the middle of the night, I'm not so sure the neighbour would have seen the smoke in the dark kwim. MOO.

SH, a dairy farmer on Roseville Rd., recalled seeing a plume of grey-black smoke coming from the Millard property back on an early morning back in May 2013. He thought it seemed off, but didn’t think much of it. On May 15, after learning about the investigation, he called the tip into police — but he couldn’t recall whether it had been on May 7 or May 8.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...-hear-about-remains-found-in-incinerator.html

Another witness and neighbour Steve Henhoeffer, went on to paint a picture of what he noticed around 6 a.m. one morning. He said he noticed smoke coming from the Millard farm, which he found odd for that hour.
He also told the court that he had never seen smoke coming from the property before.

http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/millard...m-neighbours-of-roseville-road-farm-1.2783911

Sunrise on May, 8, 2013 was 6:05am. HTH.
http://www.timeanddate.com/sun/canada/kitchener?month=5&year=2013

 

[deugirtni]

You might not have caught up enough yet, but a barrel marked kerosene was found in the barn in September 2013.

I was thinking more along the lines of.. if LE had found a receipt or credit card charge or bank transaction to show that DM had filled up the propane tank sometime close to May 6th, it would be another piece of 'circumstantial evidence'.

 

[deugirtni]

BBM - It's been stated in MSM the time SH saw a plume of grey black smoke was "around" 6am. Had it been the middle of the night, I'm not so sure the neighbour would have seen the smoke in the dark kwim. MOO.

SH, a dairy farmer on Roseville Rd., recalled seeing a plume of grey-black smoke coming from the Millard property back on an early morning back in May 2013. He thought it seemed off, but didn’t think much of it. On May 15, after learning about the investigation, he called the tip into police — but he couldn’t recall whether it had been on May 7 or May 8.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...-hear-about-remains-found-in-incinerator.html

Another witness and neighbour Steve Henhoeffer, went on to paint a picture of what he noticed around 6 a.m. one morning. He said he noticed smoke coming from the Millard farm, which he found odd for that hour.
He also told the court that he had never seen smoke coming from the property before.

http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/millard...m-neighbours-of-roseville-road-farm-1.2783911

Sunrise on May, 8, 2013 was 6:05am. HTH.
http://www.timeanddate.com/sun/canada/kitchener?month=5&year=2013

I think in my mind, due to the accelerant, I am picturing this big-a$$ed flaming fire shooting up into the sky.. but even so, I think if it were me seeing that, even the big plume of smoke as opposed to roaring flames .. I guess depending on whether I could tell if it was from the *vacant* farm.. I would have been concerned enough to at least have checked it out, if not concerned enough to call FD. It simply surprises me, considering how we have heard that country folk look out for one another, notice things, etc., and I am also *assuming* that country folk know who their neighbours are, much moreso than city folk. Also, although not *exactly* 'middle of the night', just before the crack of dawn is pretty durned close! One might imagine that a farmer who is regularly up working at that time, would know that most others are not up yet, let alone having roaring bonfires. I am not criticizing the man, just saying that it surprises me, all things considered in this situation.

 

[Tealgrove]

I think CN knew that someone was killed and cremated in the incinerator but I think it's nice that you believe she was blinded by love.

According to this article, CN knew that DM had murdered TB and knew that TB had been incinerated when she was helping him move the vehicle and the incinerator.

So in my books, CN is as bad as the rest of them. I can't give her any leeway that she didn't know and was duped.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4...or-his-return-millard-was-allegedly-escaping/

 

[deugirtni]

BBM - Abitcountry, could you please provide a link for this information? TIA

Sorry if *speaking* out of turn, but it was on CMHL Radio's interview with a reporter who attended trial on Thursday - link was posted upthread.. posting again:

https://soundcloud.com/am900chml/fo...nes-found-in-the-incinerator-at-millards-farm

[video]https://soundcloud.com/am900chml/the-incinerator-that-was-found-on-millards-farm-that-had-human-bones-inside-had-been-cleaned-out#t=15:45[/video]

Listen to *all* of it, because it is really good! But the part you're asking about starts around 15:45

 

[deugirtni]

According to this article, CN knew that DM had murdered TB and knew that TB had been incinerated when she was helping him move the vehicle and the incinerator.

So in my books, CN is as bad as the rest of them. I can't give her any leeway that she didn't know and was duped.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4...or-his-return-millard-was-allegedly-escaping/

Wow, you're right, I had forgotten that they had made it very clear that they *believe* that CN knew DM had killed TB. I guess that will be the jist of her trial though, in proving that she *knew*. But seriously, how could she *not* have known.. apparently she knew the 2 were going to steal a truck before they stole it, that they were lugging a vehicle in a trailer to DM's mother's house, that they were moving a locked toolbox, that they were moving the location of an incinerator to hide it amongst the trees, that a truck and a man were missing from going on a testdrive with 2 men, that one of them had an 'ambition' tattoo.. omg, will love to hear *her* defence!

 

[deugirtni]

I'm genuinely curious to see the state of DM's finances. While early on, journalists reported that DM was named heir to a relatively successful business, which was worth apparently millions, they gradually revealed that he hadn't necessarily taken the steps to preserve his family's legacy. Was he so lacking in funds that he decided to steal a diesel truck for a race he could've passed over (do you make money off of Baja racing)? Did the plan to steal a truck originate from a desire to commit a crime for its own sake? Or a mix of both? The thought that TB died because of such a senseless motive (simple, awful greed) saddens me, because I didn't think it could be true three years ago. Now... I guess I'm thinking differently, trying to make sense of such a stupid, tragic crime.

I have wondered if it could have been some kind of 'initiation'.. if they were getting into chopshop activities, perhaps thinking of going into it on a large scale, like by actually taking orders for specific vehicles or whatever.. perhaps getting involved with organized crime on some level(?).. could it have been to show proof of some kind, or be initiated into a group.. ? Is it possible the particular truck they were after wasn't for *them*, but someone else?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Or a large piece of plywood pulled from where the excavator was, as wood was amongst the findings in the chard remains. I guess in the big picture it seems irrelevant why that area seems squared off like that IMO. The fact there was a fire and it was to destroy the evidence of a murder, that's the big picture. MOO.

... and it would be interesting to learn of more burn marks in the past which in hindsight would have been comparable ....

 

[deugirtni]

Sorry to beg the difference.....if you look at the pictures with the forensic anthropologist standing in the incinerator, she is in it past her shoulders.
The one in this picture appears to be a smaller model by far.

From the photos we have seen thus far of DM's incinerator, it is difficult to gain perspective on the size.. we can see from that Dr Rogers headshot that the opening is much much larger than her head.. but if you look at the picture with the farmer, it looks like if we took his head and put it on top of that incincerator in the photo with him, his head would be looking tiny as well. All we seem to have been told, is that it is some 11' tall, including the trailer height, there hasn't really been any reference to length and width. This photo could be the same unit or a different one. On the last photo below, we can get more of a perspective on the unit in relation to Dr Rogers.. keeping in mind that the incinerator is still on its trailer.

 

[deugirtni]

I just wanted to point something out. Do you remember when the police officer was being cross examined by TD, and he saying that it would have been impossible for the officer to have entered the trailer via the side door, and gone into the truck.. and that instead, he had to have gone in the side door and been at the box part of the truck?

I noticed that each side of the trailer has the doors at very different locations.. the driver's side, side door, definitely goes into the box portion, while the passenger side looks much more forward, so that it would open up to the passenger door. Did the officer say which side of the truck was entered?

Passenger side trailer door is showing on this photo

Driver's side showing in this photo below

Interior photo showing where the driver's side box is located in relation to the side door of the trailer:

 

[deugirtni]

And she stayed with him after seeing the inside of that filthy truck. (Not Tim's, Dellen's.)

Multiple women in DM's life clearly needed some better critical thinking skills when it comes to mate selection. One of them was going to marry him.

And they all need to read The Gift of Fear.

That said, so far I am withholding judgement on CN: her level of knowledge and involvement, or to put it bluntly, did she know a man had been killed and cremated in that incinerator.

I believe we--myself included--have a natural bias because she DOES seem to come from a good family, has or will have a career (I guess? Or is that still true?) and we seem to lean towards thinking she will do the right thing.

But she didn't. Not until she was arrested.

So it's important to remember that sociopaths can come from good families and be pretty and college-educated.

I suppose she could have been blinded by love. If so, color me unmoved.

I wonder if DM was a completely different person at the time when he was engaged to the other girl.. I believe I had read that their mothers set them up, each thinking their respective offspring was a suitable match for the other. He got the engagement photos done, probably bought her a big rock, bought the farm property supposedly with the intention of building their dream home. Do we even know what the cause of their breakup was? I believe he was with her in 2011.. and then by mid 2012, he was up to no good. I wonder if his 'no-good' nature caused him to lose interest in the 'good girl' relationship? Or did he start hanging out with 'the wrong crowd' after they split up? Or was he just always this way? I wonder how much drugs were a part of his life? The CN girl needs some serious counselling. I feel so bad for her parents.

 

[deugirtni]

I'm pretty sure that I read that the incinerator was welded to the trailer. Would make sense if it was special ordered to be on wheels to be moved around.

I'll try to find that article again.

And I still can't believe that TB was the only victim for this horrible piece of machinery. I can't fathom why DM would buy the incinerator several years ago
IN CASE he might need it one day if he wanted to steal a truck.
I don't know if ashes can be matched to any particular person but a good spray with a hose could probably clean it out quite thoroughly.
Ok, now I won't sleep tonight either. JMHO

I keep remembering a photograph taken at the time when LE was searching the Ayr barn.. a long wooden board, I believe it had a paper bag covering one end of it, but elsewhere on the board, there was visible staining.. which WS'ers theorized could have been blood, and were suggesting from the pattern, that it was being leaked on from above, or from between cracks in the separate pieces of wooden board flooring/ceiling, etc.

And with this incinerator having been purchased at same time period.. and now that we know the evidence of TB's blood on, and bones inside of, the incinerator.. I'm thinking it isn't a stretch to imagine that LB met the same fate, and that the incinerator was well on its way to getting its money's worth. Wondering if he/they killed her (shot her???) and left her body there in the barn for a few days until the day the incinerator was delivered. We now know it was ordered on June 21st (from memory?), LB was last heard from on July 3rd I believe, and the incinerator was delivered sometime after that (July 7th?). What may have initially been purchased as a way to dispose of biological international waste while cleaning airplanes as an MRO, could have come in handy for what seemed to become DM's preferred line of 'work'. MOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I wonder if DM was a completely different person at the time when he was engaged to the other girl.. I believe I had read that their mothers set them up, each thinking their respective offspring was a suitable match for the other. He got the engagement photos done, probably bought her a big rock, bought the farm property supposedly with the intention of building their dream home. Do we even know what the cause of their breakup was? I believe he was with her in 2011.. and then by mid 2012, he was up to no good. I wonder if his 'no-good' nature caused him to lose interest in the 'good girl' relationship? Or did he start hanging out with 'the wrong crowd' after they split up? Or was he just always this way? I wonder how much drugs were a part of his life? The CN girl needs some serious counselling. I feel so bad for her parents.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/m...-bosma-murder-suspect-started-to-dismantle-it

..... Millardair, which was founded by Wayne’s late father Carl in 1954 and remained Carl’s baby up until his death in 2006.

But by age 19, he (DM) seems to have been more interested in using Millardair planes as props for *advertiser censored* shoots. The adult website Suicide Girls credits Dellen Millard as the photographer for a 2005 photo spread entitled Cockpit.

I think, the downward spiral began no later than around 2005/2006. *advertiser censored* shoots maybe no synonym for becoming/being criminal, but I think DM entered a milieu of subculture and took much pleasure of it. Better to be with funny girls and guys than to have divorced parents and to be left alone with his father and some unloved obligations, perhaps. - Only assuming of course.

 

[musicaljoke]

I think in my mind, due to the accelerant, I am picturing this big-a$$ed flaming fire shooting up into the sky.. but even so, I think if it were me seeing that, even the big plume of smoke as opposed to roaring flames .. I guess depending on whether I could tell if it was from the *vacant* farm.. I would have been concerned enough to at least have checked it out, if not concerned enough to call FD. It simply surprises me, considering how we have heard that country folk look out for one another, notice things, etc., and I am also *assuming* that country folk know who their neighbours are, much moreso than city folk. Also, although not *exactly* 'middle of the night', just before the crack of dawn is pretty durned close! One might imagine that a farmer who is regularly up working at that time, would know that most others are not up yet, let alone having roaring bonfires. I am not criticizing the man, just saying that it surprises me, all things considered in this situation.

No doubt he would have, especially if it had been close to the barn, but the fire was out in the field and it dissipated very quickly. That's pretty consistent with burning a pile of foam and plastic with an accelerant. I think the farmer witnessed the exact time that the fire was lit.

There's a moment when you first come upon a fire when you watch for clues to see if it's an emergency or just the neighbours burning their spring clean-up trash. If it's localised and dissipates, then no worries. If it spreads and builds, then call the FD.

 

[deugirtni]

Just curious, but you often make posts like this regarding the farm neighbors. If I may ask, is it that you think the neighbors were lax in reporting what went on, or are you questioning whether the reported events happened at all? Sorry, I can never quite tell.

I am actually responding to other posters when they say things like, farm people have bonfires all the time and so it wouldn't have been a concern (yes, when they actually LIVE there, and likely burning during the day or evening when people are normally awake, it wouldn't be considered a concern, but that wasn't the case here); or like, we can't be calling the FD for non emergencies (yes but fires occurring in cut-down cornfields *can* be a huge fire hazard (as shown in the links I provided), and especially if the property is vacant with nobody presumably present to contact the FD themselves, so how was it determined that it wasn't an emergency?)

I think generally when I'm responding to someone else's point, I try to quote it. Then I give my reasons for why I believe my point is different in nature than the point they are making.

 

[ABro]

Sorry to quote myself.. just reposting the picture.. does this look like a truck that had been all spiffed up for a viewing for a potential sale? Not in my opinion.. but what do I know? Is it possible that by the time it went into the trailer it had gone through a war?

People place way too much emphasis on one photo, forgetting that the angle and lighting of photos can cause major differences and distortions.

The press has not reported on a square burn mark with even edges because there was zero testimony about such a shape. It's most likely something that just appears that way in one photo because of the angle of the photo.

Likewise the truck. It was washed and waxed, but, not surprisingly, the bed wasn't scoured. It looks better in some pictures than others, which is just par for the course. If you've ever taken photos of objects, you know that it can be really hard to make them look good in some environments and really easy in others. This is why professional photographers use lighting.

 

[ABro]

I think in my mind, due to the accelerant, I am picturing this big-a$$ed flaming fire shooting up into the sky.. but even so, I think if it were me seeing that, even the big plume of smoke as opposed to roaring flames .. I guess depending on whether I could tell if it was from the *vacant* farm.. I would have been concerned enough to at least have checked it out, if not concerned enough to call FD. It simply surprises me, considering how we have heard that country folk look out for one another, notice things, etc., and I am also *assuming* that country folk know who their neighbours are, much moreso than city folk. Also, although not *exactly* 'middle of the night', just before the crack of dawn is pretty durned close! One might imagine that a farmer who is regularly up working at that time, would know that most others are not up yet, let alone having roaring bonfires. I am not criticizing the man, just saying that it surprises me, all things considered in this situation.

He saw the plume when he was letting his first group of cows out. By the time he had milked the second set and was letting them out, the plume was gone. He said it was unusual but nothing to alarm him.

 

[redheart]

Your time line here is pretty much what I had been thinking as well.
I think they pretty much went at it in one big burst to clean up things at the hangar and stage it like they had found and begun to strip the 'new' vehicle that DM had been searching for. Wouldn't want the employees to see bloody seats and carpets on Wednesday and couldn't leave the incinerator around for AJ to see.
They did all they could at the hanger when employees were told to stay away and then they ditched the incinerator in the barn, they torched the last bit up in the field. There was a commuter guy who was a little shaken when he saw something weird being towed on Kossuth Road at 5 am (possibly the incinerator)...and then at 6 am that same morning the dairy farmer spotted the thick smoke etc....neither one could tie down the date but suggested the 7th or 8th....The 8th was the Wednesday that the employees were coming back to the hangar. So I am betting both things occurred in the early morning hours of Wednesday the 8th.

BBM

Wasn't this said by someone on here? I'm pretty sure this was not witness testimony in court, and shouldn't be stated as such.

 

[billandrew]

Has anyone tried to line up the cell phone activity to the dairy farmer's testimony? He said he saw the smoke plumes "around 6am" on either the Tuesday (7th) or Wednesday (8th). Here's DM's cell activity on those days:

Tuesday May 7
5:55am - sent texts from hangar
7:52am - sent text from Oakville
8:49am - pinging in Etobicoke

Wednesday May 8
2:59am - sent a text from Etobicoke
5:43am - sent a text from Milton
7:30am - sent a text from hangar

I realize the cell data doesn't give a complete story, but I'm finding it difficult to draw a connection to the dairy farmer's testimony. Could MS (or someone else) have gone to the farm without DM to take care of burning the seats?

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Has anyone tried to line up the cell phone activity to the dairy farmer's testimony? He said he saw the smoke plumes "around 6am" on either the Tuesday (7th) or Wednesday (8th). Here's DM's cell activity on those days:

Tuesday May 7
5:55am - sent texts from hangar
7:52am - sent text from Oakville
8:49am - pinging in Etobicoke

Wednesday May 8
2:59am - sent a text from Etobicoke
5:43am - sent a text from Milton
7:30am - sent a text from hangar

I realize the cell data doesn't give a complete story, but I'm finding it difficult to draw a connection to the dairy farmer's testimony. Could MS (or someone else) have gone to the farm without DM to take care of burning the seats?

I don't want to comment on too much of the phone stuff. Way too much and my brain isn't absorbing it.
But, they did alot in such little time. we have a truck that was stripped and a body incinerated and lots of phone pining between DM and MS (and to others? Or am I wrong?) So I'm sure with MS playing a large part in this, it's quite possible he did the grunt work for DM...or someone else whether they knew what was going on or not?