Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #3

[deugirtni]

I believe Dr. Rogers in kneeling inside the incinerator. MOO.

Yes, this picture from the 2003 article gives the incinerator more perspective on the size in relation to a human.

 

[Abitcountry]

I haven't looked back to check for sure.. but from what I remember, the people who testified on Thursday from the Ayr area,.. weren't they all mostly guessing at the dates? ie 'early in the week', or whatever.. as opposed to 'May 6'? I am wondering if while TB was being cremated in the incinerator at the hangar, and the employees were asked to stay home, the duo were spending that time removing the seats, plate, carpet, etc, from the truck.. and then took that stuff back to Ayr, perhaps burning it in the cornfield on the Tuesday night?

Yes.. he wasn't sure if it was the Tues morning or the Wed morning (this is from Adam Carter's live blog):

Your time line here is pretty much what I had been thinking as well.
I think they pretty much went at it in one big burst to clean up things at the hangar and stage it like they had found and begun to strip the 'new' vehicle that DM had been searching for. Wouldn't want the employees to see bloody seats and carpets on Wednesday and couldn't leave the incinerator around for AJ to see.
They did all they could at the hanger when employees were told to stay away and then they ditched the incinerator in the barn, they torched the last bit up in the field. There was a commuter guy who was a little shaken when he saw something weird being towed on Kossuth Road at 5 am (possibly the incinerator)...and then at 6 am that same morning the dairy farmer spotted the thick smoke etc....neither one could tie down the date but suggested the 7th or 8th....The 8th was the Wednesday that the employees were coming back to the hangar. So I am betting both things occurred in the early morning hours of Wednesday the 8th.

 

[Abitcountry]

Yes, this picture from the 2003 article gives the incinerator more perspective on the size in relation to a human.

Sorry to beg the difference.....if you look at the pictures with the forensic anthropologist standing in the incinerator, she is in it past her shoulders.
The one in this picture appears to be a smaller model by far.

 

[Prairie_dawg]

Regarding DM and CN coming to the farm to move the incinerator from barn to trees.....How in the heck does that conversation even go?

"Um honey I need to move the smoker from the barn and hide it in the trees because the fire marshal may be coming to check on the barn?" (sorry humour not really intended but I am dumb founded how or what he would even say to her.)

It just baffles me how this would even transpire? I suspect he needed help hitching things up, not all people who tow are skilled enough to hook up a trailer by themselves. This could explain her presence during the truck/trailer drop off in Kleinburg as well. He probably used the red Dodge to move the incinerator and we have not seen detailed images of that yet to see if he had a back up camera. The Yukon appears to have a hitch back up camera mounted just below the driver rear door these permit you to hitch by yourself alot easier. Remember MS was busy with sisters wedding so DM likely needed a helper to hitch up the red truck. JMO

 

[Wollander77]

I don't think TB's truck was the 1st vehicle that DM and gang stole. JMO

If that was the case, I have to admit, I'm surprised he got away with it for a time. I forgot that people were discussing the probability of DM and gang running a chop shop, but since this isn't the kind of crime you usually hear on the news (as far as I know, anyway), I never really considered the logistics of DM "successfully" operating this kind of underhanded enterprise.

Though imagine how that would look on DM's already colourful resume, if this were true - "Expert knowledge in refurbishing old cars that the "company" graciously lifted from the hands of oblivious owners." Anyhow, I'm curious to see what else will turn up (electronics, etc.) that'll shed some light on what DM was really up to at the hangar.

 

[MsSherlock]

You might not have caught up enough yet, but a barrel marked kerosene was found in the barn in September 2013.

Perhaps we'll be hearing from someone who'll be be able identify the accelerant that was used? Wonder why DM had a barrel of kerosene in the barn anyhow? I had forgotten about that! Thank for the reminder!

 

[CJPRINCESS]

I had wondered the very same thing .....and it came as no comfort that the manufacturer boasts that the da##@ thing is economical on fuel.

I can't knock the manufacturing company for their products. DM'S particular unit was sold under false pretense. If he had of said "hey look, I'm intending to murder someone (or 2) and burn the remains" do you think this company would have sold him one?
They have made this particular line fuel efficient and offer after burners to do a secondary stage air cleaner (Hense why there is little to no smoke) and environmental friendly.

Would be surprised if the tank barely took a hit on fuel. Think of your bbq, I use mine all summer and rarely have to refill my tank. My house runs on propane and depending on temperature, our tank gets filled every other month. And thats running my whole house (furnace, water heater, all appliances) I'd have to ask hubby how big our tank is (bigger then DM's I do know) but I just got 670 liters (according to invoice) in the almost empty tank.

I'm sure if DM has a recent propane receipt and was stupid enough to have that as well, I'm sure it'll pop up in evidence at some point. He obviously had the incenerator in his accounting books (which we seen doodles of possible accounts to put it under on invoice), he probably would account for the propane to fill it. It becomes a write off for the business.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Seems catching up on this thread is pretty much impossible this weekend Still trying to figure out if/why the shape of the burn pattern in the corn field mattered. I'm not sure if that's already been addressed but it seems pretty clear this is where the seats were torched.

 

[deugirtni]

I mentioned a truck bed liner a few pages back but aren't they made of plastic?

TB's truck looks like it had somewhat of a truck liner when it was discovered inside DM's trailer:

 

[Bsafe]

Thanks for the post pswmom I know the kind of box you are referring to, but here what I was referring to.

I was putting the very obvious plate holders in question and I see something like Stealth Plate

http://www.fliptheplate.com/usa-curtaincovered-remote-control-hidden-license-plate-system-s-p-3.html

I then figured the black box with the led and switch is the activation box as many of these plate cover systems have. I tow as well and have a brake controller but none of mine require a cigarette lighter or have an led and switch they are typically much more professional and hook directly into the brake control underneath the steering wheel just above the peddles.

The plates on that Yukon are not your standard plate mounts but clearly look like a sneaky plate hiding scheme. I am surprised he was not pulled over and ticketed for this if he drove for any length of time. JMO Is the black box in the photo I included the kind your husband was referring to? Just saying those plate mounts look awfully fishy to me.

You can see where the front and back bumpers have been cut away - typical DM hack job IMO

My opinion only

 

[deugirtni]

In earlier conversation on tarps, several suggestions were that a poly tarp would not have resisted the heat. Then someone came along a reminded us all that canvas tarps still are around and they could have been covered with an accelerant, contained the flash burn and then left a distinctive scorch pattern. The last time I saw a canvas tarp was many many years ago and they generally were of a rusty brown colour back then. A rusty brown canvas tarp was a viable explanation of the burn pattern.
I like your suggestionof the truck liner as well.....another good suggestion.
I had initially taken the square shaped burn mark as possibly having been a secondary burn site for the incinerator but that has since been eliminated.
It has been an interesting conversation over the day and several people have contributed to making sense of the peculiar burn pattern with distinct sides and corners.....yours among them.
Posters on this site I take to be observant and thoughtful regarding the posts of other members and I am sure it is appreciated by all.
Abitcountry

In regard to your previous potential theory that the square burn mark could have been from the incinerator being there on the trailer, and just burning the cornhusk thingies from the heat coming from the device.. I was just wondering.. someone way back said something about the weight of the incinerator being 4000#, or something.. really heavy.. but then in the radio interview that someone posted (CFRB I think?), she said something about it being 500#.. either way.. just wondering if there would be any consequences of driving the truck (heavy to begin with) with trailer attached with equipment on it, over to, and onto the cornfield.. in regard to the possibility of getting stuck? That said, whether or not there was anyone getting stuck, or whether the incinerator and trailer were ever over in that area, I wonder if police found tire tracks that would have matched up with .... whichever vehicle was used to transport TB's seats back to the Ayr property. I guess at some point we will be looking at about a week's worth of various testimony in regard to specific evidence results, ie bones, teeth, blood, GSR, tire tracks, whatever..

 

[deugirtni]

TB's truck looks like it had somewhat of a truck liner when it was discovered inside DM's trailer:

Sorry to quote myself.. just reposting the picture.. does this look like a truck that had been all spiffed up for a viewing for a potential sale? Not in my opinion.. but what do I know? Is it possible that by the time it went into the trailer it had gone through a war?

 

[deugirtni]

Seems catching up on this thread is pretty much impossible this weekend Still trying to figure out if/why the shape of the burn pattern in the corn field mattered. I'm not sure if that's already been addressed but it seems pretty clear this is where the seats were torched.

I don't think it necessarily mattered, but I think people were more just theorizing due to there being 2 separate burn sites, with one of them being with very defined edges. Enquiring minds, and all.. right?

 

[CJPRINCESS]

The weight of the incinerator would be probably 4000lbs not including the trailer it was chained to. The Incinerator was capible of holding/incinerating 500 lbs of material.

There is a great read on the incinerator and how it is very well insulated to hold the heat in the unit. Its a few pages back which kinda throws the incinerator out for the square burn site theory. The radiant heat isn't as hot as some suspected it was.

 

[Bsafe]

No it doesn't, but if you think about the amount of things that went on between the night the truck went missing until it was found - driving, towing, off roading, sanding, stowing, etc etc (all alleged), then its not surprising that it doesn't look pristine IMO.

 

[Juballee]

The whole outfit without the trailer set him back 15,000 dollars and that is without the trailer. Then the cost of a customized trailer even if it was made in his own hangar....had to cost because it is not a piece of junk the way some of his other work appears to be ( eg. The trailer parked at his mother's house and the lousy fastener mechanism on the back door of the thing that sprung open as the police tried to haul it off). Why the huge investment in this ominous piece of equipment.
Remember it was filed under Garbage & Disposal for the company.
Who can name another company of any sort that would require such an instrument???
Or do you really want to think too hard on that this late in the day and before sleeping?

If it was labeled as being for garbage and disposal for Millardair, it could have been meant to dispose of garbage from planes from around the world. I believe it was discussed early on that there may be regulations for disposal of waste with any biological component coming in from international flights. When the incinerator was bought they were still planning on running an MRO, and it's possible that they anticipated that there could be material on some of the planes that they would be working on that should be incinerated.

Does anyone know if the rest of the airport incinerates their garbage or if international waste is collected and taken to the local dump? Remember, the garbage in planes isn't just sandwich wrappers and unused napkins, there will be used tissues from nose blowing, cups that have touched lips, gum that has been chewed, and any of that could be a potential biohazard.

I'm not sure if this has been asked or not yet, but was the animal incinerator more or less expensive than a commercial waste incinerator?

 

[Kamille]

You can see where the front and back bumpers have been cut away - typical DM hack job IMO

My opinion only

I was just going to post that. It appears to be a 2004 or 2005 vehicle and there is no way it came with that bumper cut out like that for a front plate.

MOO

ETA: Actually the media reported it as a 2000. So this millionaire with all kinds of money to buy a truck was driving a 13 year old SUV and an 8 year old used pick up?

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey folks, would you PLEASE watch your quotes. I've had to fix quite a few tonite and it is hard to go back to see who said what. Please preview your posts to make sure they look okay. Also, if someone sees a broken quote, please Alert on it immediately so we can deal with it earlier and much easier.

:tyou:

 

[Sillybilly]

I don't know either. But, police say "no remains" of LB have ever been found. Yet, the Crown obtained a direct indictment for MS and DM on first degree murder charges for her death, which has, so far as we know, never been proven.

<rsbm>

I've always felt LE and the coroner could have been playing word games on that one.

from Duhaime (the "go to" legal resource in most law firms):

"Human remains ... means the body of a deceased person, regardless of its stage of decomposition, and cremated remains."

But cremated remains, essentially just ashes but often including bone fragments, are not always included in the definition of human remains.

Note these words on the topic of Australian law, by Skene and Masters:


"Cremated ashes are not human remains or a body and as such have no legal status."

 

[swedie]

Apparently, they told the incinerator company at the time of purchase that the intention was to mount the unit on a trailer. The Tristar people were somewhat struck at their rather innovative suggestion it seems. Early posts seem to suggest that a custom trailer was made for it possibly at the hangar here.

BBM - Abitcountry, could you please provide a link for this information? TIA