Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #3

[Ontario Mom]

Just a general observation but I'm beginning to see a bit more clearly what the "totality of evidence" means to the Crown. Between established fact (i.e., something was in fact burned in the corn at the farm) and phone pings from both DM and MS (whichever phones they were using, respectively), witness testimony (plume of smoke, flashlights, etc) it's a bit like a jigsaw puzzle. Some pieces may be missing but not because they don't exist, they're only missing because they haven't been found (for example - where's the rest of Tim?).

I think by the time the jury (and the public) hears the entire case the Crown has against these two, we'll not only be stunned with how much evidence they really did uncover but how hard all the investigators & experts worked on all of this.

JMO.

 

[aawaterloo]

Frist time posting on this forum.
First of all, I’d like to pay my respect and condolences to the Bosma family. I hope they stay strong and have the courage to deal with the excruciating details during the trial. I also hope that justice is served.
The evidence presented so far paints a pretty glim picture for the defendants. Though, we still need to hear more from the crown and, of course, from the lawyers of the accused.
I have been pondering on the motivation... why TB and why murder someone just for a truck at the first place? Was he targeted? Are there other links that we haven’t heard of yet. Unfortunately, we may never know the true cause but here are some of the possible motivators based on what we know so far and of course some speculation on my side.

1. Most likely the accused (DM and MS) have gotten away with a number of killings before. Killing someone was no big deal to them as they were confident that they would get away with it with the means of “disposal” they had on hand. It appears DM had no real source of cash flow based on the activities he had been doing. Yes, he inherited probably a couple of million dollars in assets but he knew that those assets won’t last forever especially with his lifestyle. So he got into auto thefts and quite possibly drugs. Call it a chop-shop or parting out stolen cars for selling parts or sending them overseas. I believe SS and AJ know the shady business DM was doing but they aren’t saying anything. As matter of fact AJ testified that he worked on what he was told to and everything else was none of his business. DM and MS wanted the truck and TB was in the way that night. They simply got rid of him. I give credit to SB for acting swiftly when TB didn’t return home in time and spreading the news quickly. Most people would probably give it a couple of days before they even file a police report. When LB went missing, it took her relatives 2-weeks before they went to LE. Had it not been in the news, AJ wouldn’t have noticed anything about the truck. Just another vehicle in the shop which is going to be chopped down for one of DM’s hobby projects. Because the news of missing TB spread so quickly, DM and MS had to act fast. The rest is what we know already. They left evidence along the way and got caught. Poor TB just happened to be in the way. It could have been anyone!!! I know Igor got away but may be DM didn’t like his truck or may be his Army comment did play a role in saving his life.
2. Other possible scenario is that DM planned it and MS fell into his trap. He wanted MS to be a “partner in crime” so MS wouldn’t go around and black-mail him in the future. May be MS came to know about DM’s involvement with WM, LB or other cases and DM wanted to make sure MS stayed loyal. So he got him involved. The rest is the same as above. Things moved fast and they couldn’t take care of business as cleanly as they had planned.
3. One could make the case that MS planned it and framed DM into this as he had nothing to lose. All the resources and means were provided by DM and if they ever got caught, SM could simply say he didn’t know DM had planned this. He could also say that once he got caught into the events on May 6th, he went along with DM simply because he had no other choice. I know this isn’t going to fly well with the Jury but this could be his excuse to avoid life sentence.

I believe during the trial they will try to blame each other in the hope to avoid first degree charges. If you read the cross-examining of witnesses by the defense lawyers, DM’s lawyer is trying to project that DM had no planning into this. Which means MS planned and executed it (I personally don’t think he is that smart). DM’s lawyer is trying to say …DM simply wanted to buy a truck and MS had other plans. This is the reason that DM didn’t hide his tattoo and also didn’t hide the truck when it was in the hanger, etc..etc. On the other hand, MS lawyer is trying to project that DM was always in control of the situation and he planned it. MS just went along and did what DM told him to do. Either case, they will probably be locked up for a good chunk of their lives.
Let’s see how the events unfold and what the defense has to present.

 

[matou]

Wow...just out of curiosity I checked out Tristar Dairy in Streetview. Couldn't believe it when I saw that you could view images from Aug 2012. Look what's in the parking lot!

Good job Lanman!

 

[Orderly]

It's very easy to judge the women who dated Millard for their critical thinking skills, but hindsight is 20/20, especially when you're not even the person involved in the situation. From what I have heard from personal sources, he was very kind to her and her family. Furthermore, he could easily lie about his source and amount of employment. I doubt after a two year relationship she'd be pouring over his bank records and realizing he doesn't have that much money. Plus, can we really say that we can control fully who we love? And anyways, IMO in a relationship one does not constantly question if the guy they are dating is a serial killer. One is inclined to find that highly improbable. And if one does think that they are labelled as having trust issues.

Please note that I do not know what role she played and how much she knew of what happened I'm just responding to all the people who think it couldn't ever be them or someone they know. If she helped DM willingly, she needs to be put in prison.

 

[Ontario Mom]

It's rather curious how many new folks are posting in the last few days Welcome all of you - I'm sure you've been reading for a long time, so I'm just glad you're finally commenting.

 

[billandrew]

Just a general observation but I'm beginning to see a bit more clearly what the "totality of evidence" means to the Crown. Between established fact (i.e., something was in fact burned in the corn at the farm) and phone pings from both DM and MS (whichever phones they were using, respectively), witness testimony (plume of smoke, flashlights, etc) it's a bit like a jigsaw puzzle. Some pieces may be missing but not because they don't exist, they're only missing because they haven't been found (for example - where's the rest of Tim?).

I think by the time the jury (and the public) hears the entire case the Crown has against these two, we'll not only be stunned with how much evidence they really did uncover but how hard all the investigators & experts worked on all of this.

JMO.

I like the jigsaw puzzle analogy. Some key pieces might be missing, but with so many other pieces around them you can reasonably conclude what should be in their place. And so far, it seems the defense's strategy is to try to block some of those surrounding pieces from being admissible, in order to raise reasonable doubt. And they seem to be losing that battle.

 

[Kamille]

just wanted to touch on the fact that airport incinerators are not uncommon for burning trash and jet fuel. I wonder if the purchase was legit for the hangar he did purchase it when his Dad was alive..the intention at the hangar was to do aircraft maintenance, refueling etc..but then that never flew. I have been finding alot of links that suggest incinerating at airports is more economical than paying for someone to pick up all the waste and surprisingly burns off efficiently. I just don't understand why he would tell the company he bought it from that it was for animals from his farm? He could have just said it was for waste at the airport....or is this something that will come up in cross? We have yet to hear from the incinerator purchase right? Maybe crown left that part out and only disclosed the animal part..maybe it was purchased for both?

http://journaltimes.com/news/local/...cle_10ce7b1c-4594-11e0-a836-001cc4c002e0.html

Typical flight trash includes plastic or paper plates, cups, silverware and various kinds of food containers, as well as used beverage cans and bottles. “That’s why they use plastic silverware,” Mann said. “It burns.”

That may conjure up images of filthy, foul-smelling smoke and unhealthy chemical emissions. But Mann said three U.S. agencies have approved the process, and the incinerator burns too hot to pollute.

I know this is U.S and I wonder what laws Canada has

Then the airport bought a smaller incinerator for its own waste. Named the Smartash, it burned leftover jet fuel

this is another article I found on the use of an incinerator at a fly in camp in Yellowknife

Incinerator & garbage disposal.; We have converted a 500 gallon fuel tank into an incinerator
with a metal door and garbage that is stored inside is protected from wildlife and the wind and
elements. The incinerator is located at our land fill/burying site at the far end on the runway.
Garbage is collected daily and is separated and transported by ATV to the incinerator. We use all
left over and dirty gasoline, diesel fuel, Av Gas and Jet B as accelerant to burn the garbage. The
garbage is left in the incinerator and turned over a number of times before it is put into
containers for burying. This results in multiple burns so that what is left is relatively clean ashes,
metal, and glass non combustibles

http://www.mvlwb.ca/Boards/mv/Regis...ill and Waste Management Plans - May21-13.pdf

Pearson Airport does not use on site incinerators and has the garbage dealt with by an outside company.

http://www.torontopearson.com/uploa...- Chapter 9 - Airline and Airport Support.pdf

Why would an MRO be dealing with garbage on an airplane? I'm sure the garbage from a flight is removed by a cleaning crew before it is taken into an MRO for maintenance. The company responsible for the trash at the airport would likely be dealing with how it is being disposed of.

The land the hangar was on was leased from the airport. I would think that the airport would have to be informed of a purchase such as this and the plans on how it will be used and I have no idea if such a purchase would be within the parameters of the lease. Not to mention the insurance company for the hangar. I also don't know if it would be within the Waterloo bylaws to incinerate your own trash. As you've said, these are US articles and our laws and bylaws, especially with regards to disposing of waste, are much different than theirs.

The hangar was not sitting on private property, and as such it had rules and regulations that it had to abide by. Since it appears that no one connected to the airport knew about it, I'd say it wasn't purchased for the MRO. Unless a rep from the airport and the insurance company for the hangar is lined up to testify with a copy of a contract stipulating that they will be incinerating their own garbage.

MOO

 

[flipflop]

thanks for the reference....I was certain that I had read that DM was going to represent himself in the court case re Laura Babcock........Just proves my point further that his ego has run away with itself......Complete and utter madness.
How does the saying go about people who try such an endeavour--something about having a fool for a client.
The article also makes mention of the fact that the authorities have strongly recommended that DM not take on his own defence. Could be that they know something of the evidence and case against him.

You are not alone, I read that somewhere too that DM was representing himself when it came time for the LB case!!!

 

[billandrew]

Wow...just out of curiosity I checked out Tristar Dairy in Streetview. Couldn't believe it when I saw that you could view images from Aug 2012. Look what's in the parking lot!

View attachment 89501

Nice find! If you look at the October 2014 Streetview there is a similar incinerator on their property, but on the other side, so it could just be their (the dairy's) own incinerator in both Streetview pics.

 

[palisadesk]

It's very easy to judge the women who dated Millard for their critical thinking skills, but hindsight is 20/20, especially when you're not even the person involved in the situation. From what I have heard from personal sources, he was very kind to her and her family.

This is a very important point. By way of illustration I know someone (pretty well) who dated Paul Bernardo in high school. She saw none of the behaviours he displayed in later relationships (abusive, rough sex, name calling, throttling, etc.). She said he was charming, funny, good company, very polite and well-mannered, quite the gentleman. He broke off with her, after about 6 months, and she was devastated (at the time). At some point he changed his M.O., and/or saw vulnerability in his partners that he exploited. Toronto Police heard from several ex-girlfriends of his deviant behaviour.

But he never showed it in the relationship with my acquaintance, and quite possibly DM did the same, if only not to displease his mother. Perhaps they both went along with the relationship for awhile out of respect for their parents. We have no information about it (but will probably hear more as the trial progresses).

 

[Kamille]

Nice find! If you look at the October 2014 Streetview there is a similar incinerator on their property, but on the other side, so it could just be their (the dairy's) own incinerator in both Streetview pics.

It would have to be. The one in this case was delivered in July 2012. It also hasn't been established how the incinerator was shipped and by whom. Tri Star may have been the Canadian Distributor but it may have been shipped direct to MillardAir from Georgia.


MOO

 

[MsSherlock]

Wow...just out of curiosity I checked out Tristar Dairy in Streetview. Couldn't believe it when I saw that you could view images from Aug 2012. Look what's in the parking lot!

View attachment 89501

FWIK, Tristar Dairy was the main distributor for Super Nova. IMHO, even though incinerators sound creepy, they have a definite good purpose. In the case of the SN500, its intended use is for poultry/turkey operations. Bare in mind that large producers aren't dealing with 20 or 30 backyard birds- they turn over thousands, usually in a 6 week period. The best way to prevent the spread of disease(i.e. bird flu) is by incineration of the bird(s) Normal industrial poultry farming involves culling out the weak birds-the ones that aren't growing properly etc. Industrial poultry operations can have anywhere from 5000 - 50,000 birds and with the average cull/mortality rate of 1 percent per week, over the course of 6 weeks the loss would expected to be somewhere between 250 and 2500 birds depending on flock size.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broiler

IMO, with the issues of avian flu in Canada, TriStar has probably seen an increase in it's sales of this particular model. Why did DM purchase this one over the smaller one? Perhaps this was the model thats most popular with farmers and the distributor may have had it in stock? MOO

 

[billandrew]

Frist time posting on this forum.
First of all...

Welcome to the forum and thanks for posting! I agree that each of the two accused will probably try to pin more of the blame on the other, in hope of a lesser sentence. This would be a fascinating example of the prisoner's dilemma in game theory, and it could ultimately work against them both.

 

[Abitcountry]

BBM - Abitcountry, could you please provide a link for this information? TIA

Sorry to br so late in responding.
If you look t post #305 you will see a link to the SoundCloud.com site and a recording of an interview on 900chmi.......the interview is approx. 17 minutes long and at about 15 minute point the topic of what the incinerator company said to DM or purchaser is very clear.
The interview is excellent and worth a listen just for itself.:drumroll:

 

[matou]

Welcome Aawaterloo!

:welcome4::welcome4:

 

[Juballee]

My opinion is that MS was more active in turning off his phone than DM. He probably knew that his location could be traced later. And if this is true, it's interesting that MS didn't turn his phone off until AFTER they picked up TB on Monday night. Why wouldn't he turn it off before he left Oakville? So he gets recorded travelling from Oakville to Ancaster, and then his phone turns off. One possibility is that he didn't expect a murder to take place. JMO. Another possibility is that he just forgot or didn't think to turn his phone off until after they picked up TB. Or his phone ran out of battery. Who knows.

I thought that MS's phone, the Bate phone and TB's phone were all turned off within minutes of each other, but that DM's phone was never turned off. This makes me wonder if the person holding the Bate phone was the same one in control of TB's phone and MS's phone. I honestly can't think of a reason why DM didn't turn his phone off too if he was present when the other phones were turned off.

It should also be noted that neither turned their phone off for the previous test drive, so perhaps turning the phones off was an afterthought, not something planned.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Why did DM purchase this one over the smaller one?

My question would be, why would DM, who clearly had no legitimate, business, farming, livestock related need to actually own an incinerator in the first place, purchase one at all?

1. to destroy evidence of stolen vehicles? Do chop shops normally use incinerators? If yes, what exactly are they burning? (a google search brings up THIS case as the #1 result, oddly enough)
2. to destroy evidence of human beings? Of course we can all speculate here but... was Tim the first one?

I just do not see any legit need for DM to own such a piece of equipment. He wasn't running an airline, he didn't have a massive waste disposal issue to deal with (for that matter, it appears he simply used his Yukon to take plenty of waste on little trips here and there), he had exactly ZERO livestock and yet he purposely chose this piece of machinery. It truly makes NO sense to me.

moo.

 

[Night_is_Mine]

I can't wait for the girlfriends to testify. That will be crazy. I wish I knew when so I could book a day off from work

 

[Abitcountry]

Wow...just out of curiosity I checked out Tristar Dairy in Streetview. Couldn't believe it when I saw that you could view images from Aug 2012. Look what's in the parking lot!

Amazing picture....and on a skid and ready to ship.

Looks larger to me than the one in the photo with the the sales dude touching the side of the incinerator and demonstrating that it burns cool.

 

[jash]

I have actually been wondering about when DM and CN moved the incinerator. The cell phone exhibits never show DM and CN together at the farm. Perhaps this evidence was intentionally left out, in order to be presented in more detail later on?

Based on my notes, they would have been at the farm moving the incinerator in the very early hours of May 10th.

According to the Crown's opening statement, the Eliminator was moved after DM and CN dropped off the trailer at DM's mother's house. Subsequently, they took the locked toolbox to DM's friend's house.

We've learned the security camera in Kleinburg showed the truck and trailer at 10:50 PM on May 9th, and that they were still in Kleinburg between 11:00 and 11:30 PM (DM got texts from MS and "Whidden", and CN's phone calls "Hagerman"). At 1:23 AM on May 10th, DM got a text from MS (pinged in Milton). IMO they were on their way to farm (or back from the farm, assuming they were able to move the incinerator quickly). At 3:43 AM, DM/CN phones are pinging in Milton (IMO, this is where the friend keeping the toolbox lived).

Links:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/297569867/Crown-s-opening-address
http://embed.scribblelive.com/Embed/v7.aspx?Id=1840307&Page=1&overlay=false