Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #6

[SnooperDuper]

<BBM>
And you know this how?

Where are the drug charges?

 

[Ironworker736]

There's no evidence so far the chop shop was ever a large scale operation, I suspect it was something they tried out but lost interest in. The motorcycle was stolen in the fall of 2012 (by just towing it away), and more than 6 months later the parts were still in the hangar.

I don't think DM wanted to work as hard as a chop shop would require. His only interest at the time TB's truck was stolen was getting SS and AJ to build a large trailer, and talking bull** about plans for the hangar. This raises the question, why didn't he buy a trailer, instead of leaning on AJ to go buy plywood and build it himself? I wonder what was happening with his finances, in reality or in his head.

<BBM>
Have you ever priced a trailer vs what it costs to build one? Trust me, I would never pay what they tell you they're worth, mainly because i can&#8203; build one. If I think like that, does it automatically mean I have money issues?

 

[Gibson67]

<rsbm>

But the jury doesn't know that the incinerator was bought for LB. All they know is DM had one and used it, which makes the crime look premeditated.

I doubt the jury is sitting there thinking, but he didn't really plan to use the incinerator - it was plan B. They just know he did use it.

this is another thing I have a really hard time understanding that if he killed LB...he spends 15,000 to dispose of her body? I can think of 100 other cheaper ways he could have disposed of her body..like burying it on his farm for one..why go to all the trouble of ordering an animal incinerator to dispose of one body? I don't get it.

 

[Ironworker736]

Where are the drug charges?

Looks up MS's records. And not every crime results in charges, just so you know.

ETA - if DM is the "ringleader", his "entourage" are his runners...insulation. And having a nice big $6M dollar base of operations, complete with security, is ever drug dealers ideal situation IMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

Looks up MS's records. And not every crime results in charges, just so you know.

MS is just a petty criminal, no need for a gun. I'm not impressed by MS's record: he's obviously not a big player. Now MWJ OTOH...

 

[Ontario Mom]

Here's what I can't understand...
DM is the ringleader. He allegedly had a chop shop going in his hangar. There were stolen vehicles there when he was arrested, and I imagine countless others had passed through that hangar. After stealing so many vehicles and apparently knowing how to do just that, why does it suddenly change to an M.O. of calling, meeting and killing the target vehicle's owner? It makes no sense at all. And the psychopath reasoning is only speculation resulting from the presumption of guilt in cases yet to be tried IMO. So can someone please tell me why the act of stealing a vehicle, something they apparently are already good at, suddenly turns into this ridiculous, murderous mess? IMO it's just not as simple as some are seeing it. There's got to be more to the story. I mean, even the stolen Harley found in the hangar was previously listed on Kijiji, so mining the site for target vehicles may have already been a tactic they were employing, without killing the owner. TIA

ETA - and is it typical for the proprietor (ringleader) of an illegal chop shop to acquire the stolen vehicles himself? IMO he'd have some of his "entourage" do his dirty work for him, wouldn't he?

Replying without reading ahead so at the risk of repeating what may have been already said:

In all honesty, we don't really know the "why". Unless or until DM confesses his entire part in this heinous crime (and he'd have to be well infused with truth serum since we all know he likes to play fast & loose with the truth) we may never know the "why". Of course we can all guess at probable motives (mental illness, control freak, sociopath, adrenaline junky, etc.) but that's really all it is, guesswork.

I think for those of us who follow the law and would never think of hurting someone to steal their property (or any other crime), it's almost impossible to wrap our heads around their motives. In this case, I do believe there is much more to the story and it's entirely possible we'll never hear it.

moo.

 

[Ironworker736]

MS is just a petty criminal, no need for a gun. I'm not impressed by MS's record: he's obviously not a big player. Now MWJ OTOH...

I never said he was "a big player" or asked you to be impressed. You don't find it at all interesting that he does have the drug charges that you just asked about? And I can take you downtown Anytown right now and find you a street-level player packing heat.

 

[Kamille]

I agree and respect that, however...pictures of a gun do not prove it was bought buy anyone in particular or that it was even ever fired. I can show you many pictures of my guns, and I guarantee that if you looked at 4 pictures of what appears to be the same gun, you could do very little to tell me any backstory of that firearm. All of this is pure conjecture, in regards to that gun or guns in those pictures. I respect everyone's right to opinion, but please realize that opinion is just that. And I'm not trying to be argumentative...just looking at this perhaps a little differently than some. I have opinions too

If you were on trial for murder right now, with the kind of evidence we've seen so far, and you had pictures on your computer of a prohibited gun in your home and in your hand, the same caliber of gun that matches a shell casing from the scene of a murder, you'd better believe it would be added to the totality of circumstantial evidence against you. So I suggest if you have prohibited guns in your home, you seriously consider turning them in to LE. Because if you legitimately and legally own those guns, they have their own backstory from where you purchased them...correct?

MOO

 

[Kamille]

<BBM>
Have you ever priced a trailer vs what it costs to build one? Trust me, I would never pay what they tell you they're worth, mainly because i can&#8203; build one. If I think like that, does it automatically mean I have money issues?

Have you considered just backing into someone's driveway and stealing one? Much cheaper and you might get an unexpected free $35,000 Harley as a bonus gift. Just register the stolen trailer as homemade and you're good to go.

MOO

 

[Ironworker736]

Replying without reading ahead so at the risk of repeating what may have been already said:

In all honesty, we don't really know the "why". Unless or until DM confesses his entire part in this heinous crime (and he'd have to be well infused with truth serum since we all know he likes to play fast & loose with the truth) we may never know the "why". Of course we can all guess at probable motives (mental illness, control freak, sociopath, adrenaline junky, etc.) but that's really all it is, guesswork.

I think for those of us who follow the law and would never think of hurting someone to steal their property (or any other crime), it's almost impossible to wrap our heads around their motives. In this case, I do believe there is much more to the story and it's entirely possible we'll never hear it.

moo.

It's also entirely possible that we might hear some of it. And speaking as someone who also abides by the law, but has been witness to seemingly far more criminal activity than at least a few here, I can, in fact, understand some aspects of this stuff. Obviously not the senseless murder part, but I truly do see a little crime ring scenario in these guys. All JMO

 

[Ontario Mom]

I'm starting to really believe that the killing was the main objective as well, but I have a hard time with the "thrill kill" theory, for several reasons. If you wanted to commit a murder for the thrill of it, would you not go out of your way to avoid witnesses? Why go to the victim's house and leave with him, after being seen by two&#8203; eyewitnesses from as close as 10 feet away, and then continue with the murder? That makes no sense to me either IMO. So what are we missing?

Last week when I drove past the exits to Ancaster of course I thought about this horrid case. I think we've all wondered at the mindset of DM to allow himself to be seen by SB and WDB and then do what he did anyway.

He was using a disposable phone, and likely assumed there was no way it could be tracked back to him.
He gave a fake (sort of) name instead of his real name.
He was coming from Etobicoke out into farm country, a good distance away.

I think it's quite likely he simply assumed he'd get away with it. If in fact he did also kill LB and his own father previously, and essentially got away with that... that would have only fed his arrogance in believing he could also pull this crime off without ever being found out.

What he did NOT count on, was so many people pooling their information/expertise and resources and SO MUCH NOISE created by SB and the Bosma friends and family.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I never said he was "a big player" or asked you to be impressed. You don't find it at all interesting that he does have the drug charges that you just asked about? And I can take you downtown Anytown right now and find you a street-level player packing heat.

The jury does not know about MS's past drug charges and no history of drug dealing by either MS or DM has been presented to the jury - which means that's all irrelevant and won't be considered in this trial.

I think you have the prevalence of guns in the Us confused with what's happening in Canada. BB guns.

 

[Ironworker736]

If you were on trial for murder right now, with the kind of evidence we've seen so far, and you had pictures on your computer of a prohibited gun in your home and in your hand, the same caliber of gun that matches a shell casing from the scene of a murder, you'd better believe it would be added to the totality of circumstantial evidence against you. So I suggest if you have prohibited guns in your home, you seriously consider turning them in to LE. Because if you legitimately and legally own those guns, they have their own backstory from where you purchased them...correct?

MOO

Of course they do, but can you tell that story from looking at the pictures? Can you tell if they have ever been fired? Can you tell that all 4 pictures are in fact the same gun, absent a shot of the serial number?
And yes, all my firearms are 100% legal

 

[Ironworker736]

Have you considered just backing into someone's driveway and stealing one? Much cheaper and you might get an unexpected free $35,000 Harley as a bonus gift. Just register the stolen trailer as homemade and you're good to go.

MOO

Which would prove I was a degenerate thief, not necessarily broke

 

[Ironworker736]

Last week when I drove past the exits to Ancaster of course I thought about this horrid case. I think we've all wondered at the mindset of DM to allow himself to be seen by SB and WDB and then do what he did anyway.

He was using a disposable phone, and likely assumed there was no way it could be tracked back to him.
He gave a fake (sort of) name instead of his real name.
He was coming from Etobicoke out into farm country, a good distance away.

I think it's quite likely he simply assumed he'd get away with it. If in fact he did also kill LB and his own father previously, and essentially got away with that... that would have only fed his arrogance in believing he could also pull this crime off without ever being found out.

What he did NOT count on, was so many people pooling their information/expertise and resources and SO MUCH NOISE created by SB and the Bosma friends and family.

All of which is entirely possible <modsnip>

 

[Kamille]

this is another thing I have a really hard time understanding that if he killed LB...he spends 15,000 to dispose of her body? I can think of 100 other cheaper ways he could have disposed of her body..like burying it on his farm for one..why go to all the trouble of ordering an animal incinerator to dispose of one body? I don't get it.

At that time, I'm sure he had no idea that there were financial troubles looming. If you want to "eliminate someone" what better way. And money was likely no object to him back then. Can't wait for her trial to see the Internet searches around that purchase.

You have to admit it was very effective. He never would have been caught if he'd stopped at 2. I do question the mind of someone who can even contemplate an incinerator for a human body disposal however.

I think he's proven himself to be a little "off", just like I believe he was described as a kid I believe.

MOO

 

[Wollander77]

Even so, chop shop or no chop shop, I'm pretty sure literally anyone who hasn't had a recent lobotomy could easily deduce that this was possibly the dumbest, most illogical way possible to steal a truck. MOO

ETA - and to think he (they) planned this extremely silly idea? For a long time? I just don't see it.

Perhaps it hadn't been dumb or illogical in DM and MS's eyes. Hindsight's 20/20.

If DM and MS had not planned TB's death in advance, their spontaneous decision to hijack the truck and kill its owner still sounds dumb and illogical, especially after they revealed themselves to two other eyewitnesses prior to the test drive.

IMO, no possible outlook on this crime can make sense to me. Any plan, spontaneous, pre-planned, or otherwise, which ended in TB's death cannot be explained "rationally," without insight into what they had been thinking that night. However, I do believe that while the murder might not have been arranged weeks or even days ahead, DM and MS knew going into this, with a loaded gun, that someone could get seriously injured. And they were willing to take that chance for a truck. JMO.

 

[Satchie]

this is another thing I have a really hard time understanding that if he killed LB...he spends 15,000 to dispose of her body? I can think of 100 other cheaper ways he could have disposed of her body..like burying it on his farm for one..why go to all the trouble of ordering an animal incinerator to dispose of one body? I don't get it.

It's possible that the idea of disposing of more bodies was there all along, it just took quite a bit of time to get past any inhibitions and doubts about how to actually do it.

 

[Alethea Dice]

I honestly don't have the foggiest idea what you're talking about. The name of the person in question is clearly visible in the right hand column of slide 36. Nothing related to that slide has been blocked.

https://docs.google.com/presentatio...CRNb7IooPPZFllXFyWyCdHr42Ho/edit#slide=id.p53

I apologize. I was sure that corner was not blocked out the first time I saw it. I guess I misremembered too.

 

[Ontario Mom]

All of which is entirely possible <modsnip>

<modsnip>All we can really do is examine the timeline and try to attach some logic/reason to it, from DM and MS's perspective.