Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #6

[Kamille]

Of course they do, but can you tell that story from looking at the pictures? Can you tell if they have ever been fired? Can you tell that all 4 pictures are in fact the same gun, absent a shot of the serial number?
And yes, all my firearms are 100% legal

In a murder case, the common sense preponderance of the evidence says that yes, the likelyhood that this was the murder weapon that killed the victim is extremely high.

You don't have to have a video of a murder to convict. As a juror, you can weigh all the evidence, put it together in its totality, and come to a common sense conclusion of what you believe happened.

Just because I don't know the backstory on that gun or whether it's ever been fired absolutely, does not prevent me from making the leap that the accused had access to a gun of the same caliber as the murder weapon and it was likely used in this crime. Common sense, especially since the victim was shot with that caliber of gun in a vehicle in which he left with the two accused who are pictured holding that gun.

MOO

 

[LibTech]

Here's what I can't understand...
DM is the ringleader. He allegedly had a chop shop going in his hangar. There were stolen vehicles there when he was arrested, and I imagine countless others had passed through that hangar. After stealing so many vehicles and apparently knowing how to do just that, why does it suddenly change to an M.O. of calling, meeting and killing the target vehicle's owner? It makes no sense at all. And the psychopath reasoning is only speculation resulting from the presumption of guilt in cases yet to be tried IMO. So can someone please tell me why the act of stealing a vehicle, something they apparently are already good at, suddenly turns into this ridiculous, murderous mess? IMO it's just not as simple as some are seeing it. There's got to be more to the story. I mean, even the stolen Harley found in the hangar was previously listed on Kijiji, so mining the site for target vehicles may have already been a tactic they were employing, without killing the owner. TIA

ETA - and is it typical for the proprietor (ringleader) of an illegal chop shop to acquire the stolen vehicles himself? IMO he'd have some of his "entourage" do his dirty work for him, wouldn't he?

After doing much research on psychopaths, I think DM fits the profile without factoring in the other deaths he has been charged with.

Superficially charming, psychopaths tend to make a good first impression on others and often strike observers as remarkably normal. Yet they are self-centered, dishonest and undependable, and at times they engage in irresponsible behavior for no apparent reason other than the sheer fun of it. Largely devoid of guilt, empathy and love, they have casual and callous interpersonal and romantic relationships. Psychopaths routinely offer excuses for their reckless and often outrageous actions, placing blame on others instead. They rarely learn from their mistakes or benefit from negative feedback, and they have difficulty inhibiting their impulses.

Analyses of the PCL-R reveal that it comprises at least three overlapping, but separable, constellations of traits: interpersonal deficits (such as grandiosity, arrogance and deceitfulness), affective deficits (lack of guilt and empathy, for instance), and impulsive and criminal behaviors (including sexual promiscuity and stealing).

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-psychopath-means/

Not all psychopaths are serial killers, some never kill at all. IMO this was a thrill kill, so you can't reason it out.

LE clearly believe that DM has killed twice before. I think the preliminary hearing was waived in the LB case? There is a very good chance that TB, sadly, was victim #3. Let's hope he was just as "sloppy" and left a trail of evidence behind him in those crimes as well.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Since I'm still technically newbie to following criminal trials, maybe someone can explain to me how the jury does or doesn't know this or that.

For example, it's been said the jury doesn't know about LB, or about MS's prior criminal record. How do we know they don't know any of these details?

Sorry if that sounds like a dumb question, but I'm still learning how all this works.

 

[Tealgrove]

Since I'm still technically newbie to following criminal trials, maybe someone can explain to me how the jury does or doesn't know this or that.

For example, it's been said the jury doesn't know about LB, or about MS's prior criminal record. How do we know they don't know any of these details?

Sorry if that sounds like a dumb question, but I'm still learning how all this works.

They actually may know some of these details however, the Crown is not telling them any of this. What they know of their own accord they know; however, when it comes time to deliberate they can't use that knowledge to convict. They can only use the evidence that has been presented to them to convict or acquit.

 

[Kamille]

Which would prove I was a degenerate thief, not necessarily broke

Who would kill for a truck with the illegal gun in your possession? I guess that just brings the circle right around to the argument that DM is a murdering degenerate thief who planned to kill the owner of whichever truck he decided to steal because even though he's a millionaire, with tons of liquid cash on hand to buy a $25,000 truck, killing for stuff is so much more thrilling.

And here I was giving him the benefit of the doubt that this wasn't a planned murder and the theft was due to financial troubles. :waitasec:

MOO

 

[Satchie]

I think it's quite likely he simply assumed he'd get away with it. If in fact he did also kill LB and his own father previously, and essentially got away with that... that would have only fed his arrogance in believing he could also pull this crime off without ever being found out.

What he did NOT count on, was so many people pooling their information/expertise and resources and SO MUCH NOISE created by SB and the Bosma friends and family.

I agree, there was very little expressed interest after LB disappeared and WM died.

That reminds me of a case in Panama I followed a few years ago, an American expat had gotten away with killing 5 people in order to steal their property/money. But then he killed a woman who had close friends and family, who knew something was terribly wrong and she wouldn't just run away with a new lover like he said. It was only their persistence that got the investigation going that led to his arrest and imprisonment.

 

[Ontario Mom]

They actually may know some of these details however, the Crown is not telling them any of this. What they know of their own accord they know; however, when it comes time to deliberate they can't use that knowledge to convict. They can only use the evidence that has been presented to them to convict or acquit.

That would be really really hard, to separate what you've read in the media from what the Crown (and defense) presents in court. They sure do have a brutal job.

 

[Tealgrove]

I've followed many cases here on WS in the last while and it ALWAYS shocks me the reasons that people do what they do and most often it is the most obvious.

Sometimes I get so wrapped up in a case and think this or that and try to figure out the why's and who's and when LE has the press conference and tells you how it all went down I shake my head and go REALLY? It was that simple and obvious?

Sometimes what's right in front of our noses is the simplest and correct explanation however heinous or ridiculous it may seem. At the end of the day it is what is.

MOO

 

[Obes99]

Occam's razor!

 

[Obes99]

I've followed many cases here on WS in the last while and it ALWAYS shocks me the reasons that people do what they do and most often it is the most obvious.

Sometimes I get so wrapped up in a case and think this or that and try to figure out the why's and who's and when LE has the press conference and tells you how it all went down I shake my head and go REALLY? It was that simple and obvious?

Sometimes what's right in front of our noses is the simplest and correct explanation however heinous or ridiculous it may seem. At the end of the day it is what is.

MOO

Occam's razor!

 

[Gumshew]

.... They weren't running drugs or doing anything else nefarious. Just this.

No drugs, nothing nefarious? You really believe that?? Even after hearing from some of his entourage about the big parties where cocaine flowed?

 

[ArianeEmory]

No drugs, nothing nefarious? You really believe that?? Even after hearing from some of his entourage about the big parties where cocaine flowed?

Drug parties thrown by rich guy does not equal drug runner. Sorry, it just doesn't.

 

[SnooperDuper]

No drugs, nothing nefarious? You really believe that?? Even after hearing from some of his entourage about the big parties where cocaine flowed?

Right now that's just unsubstantiated rumour, with no evidence or testimony to support it.

 

[Gumshew]

It's also entirely possible that we might hear some of it. And speaking as someone who also abides by the law, but has been witness to seemingly far more criminal activity than at least a few here, I can, in fact, understand some aspects of this stuff. Obviously not the senseless murder part, but I truly do see a little crime ring scenario in these guys. All JMO

It's my opinion too that it is a little crime ring scenario. It is also my opinion that MS was a lackey for two guys-- DM and MWJ, and that is possibly why we see a divide between DM and SM in court. All is my speculation, of course.

 

[Pink Panther]

Does anyone know if LE ever looked into Elisabeth Glass' death? There was a thread here about her a while back. DM seems to have written a very odd obituary for her as well that was along the lines of his obituary for his father.

 

[Claroon]

It may seem far away physically but it would still be visible from the Control tower and any strange action like a burst of flames would stand a good chance of getting the towers attention. You have to remember airports are under Federal jurisdiction. People just can't do anything they want air side, since the activity may ultimately have an impact on airplane safety. Control towers have windows all around them so they can see the whole airfield and keep aircraft safe from unexpected events. ie) pieces of paper flying across the runway, ashes/smoke, flying debris/garbage, birds, animals/people/vehicles on the runway etc.

Waterloo tower looks after both air and ground. DM knew airports well. He was a ramp rat at Pearson. He definitely knew what Controllers do and the fact that they're also known to use some pretty high powered binoculars if they need to get a closer look at something or if they were just plain nosy. IMO, they wouldn't be thinking about nefarious activities, rather they'd be concerned about a flash fire. Was it an uncontrolled fire or incident at the hangar that could result in dangerous flying object debris (FOD) or smoke? IMO, during regular night time hours the Controllers would have contacted Airport Management to confirm the activity or investigate it and make sure there was no danger to aircraft landing or taking off.

The premeditation was obvious when they told TB they'd be there earlier and not showing up until 9. Sunset on May 6th/13 was 8.27 pm. By the time they got back to the farm and then to the airport, it was shut down for the night giving them privacy for the 5 hours they needed. IMO, MS wouldn't even be thinking about airport logistics- he had total faith that DM knew what he was doing. Seems like DM knew how long it was going to take- perhaps he was familiar with burning more than garbage in the Eliminator. MOO

Anything is possible. I don't dispute the premeditation at all. I do dispute what might be seen from the terminal or tower. If you want to see what the the view is from the tower, check out this webcam http://www.metcam.navcanada.ca/hb/player.jsp?lang=e&site=CYKF. Especially note how little is visible in the dark. Also look at the north view. I think the hangar is way up in the left corner. If they were doing this behind the hangar, as in the North side, I think that would really be out of tower view. Now if security drove around on a regular basis, that's another matter.

 

[Claroon]

...

LE clearly believe that DM has killed twice before. I think the preliminary hearing was waived in the LB case? There is a very good chance that TB, sadly, was victim #3. Let's hope he was just as "sloppy" and left a trail of evidence behind him in those crimes as well.

I'd like them to check out that blood on the boat incident. He apparently said he took one girl to shore and picked up another? Yes 3 we know of, but I wouldn't exclude the possibility of others. IMO And by the way, it is only a little more than an hour to London from the hangar. And London has a great airport too.

 

[Claroon]

Replying without reading ahead so at the risk of repeating what may have been already said:

In all honesty, we don't really know the "why". Unless or until DM confesses his entire part in this heinous crime (and he'd have to be well infused with truth serum since we all know he likes to play fast & loose with the truth) we may never know the "why". Of course we can all guess at probable motives (mental illness, control freak, sociopath, adrenaline junky, etc.) but that's really all it is, guesswork.

I think for those of us who follow the law and would never think of hurting someone to steal their property (or any other crime), it's almost impossible to wrap our heads around their motives. In this case, I do believe there is much more to the story and it's entirely possible we'll never hear it.

moo.

Makes me think of "blood lust" Thea in Arrow was suffering from. Just a theft wasn't enough. Needed to take things a step further. IMO

 

[Claroon]

Have you considered just backing into someone's driveway and stealing one? Much cheaper and you might get an unexpected free $35,000 Harley as a bonus gift. Just register the stolen trailer as homemade and you're good to go.

MOO

Yes, with all the stolen car parts, he likely stole everything. I'm going to ask my BIL what make his shiny new red truck was that went missing from Montreal in around 2008. I don't recall if it was a ram but it was red and it was stolen.

 

[Gumshew]

Looks up MS's records. And not every crime results in charges, just so you know.

ETA - if DM is the "ringleader", his "entourage" are his runners...insulation. And having a nice big $6M dollar base of operations, complete with security, is ever drug dealers ideal situation IMO

You bet. If it were true, it would be a heaven sent scenario. But of course, DM has not been charged with anything beside murder 1, so all this is-- mere speculation. Mere speculation.