Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #6

[Ontario Mom]

I am of the mind that many on WS have actually over-thought the whole thing.....the jurors have the advantage of not having a head full of non-essentials. To think that they are at a disadvantage is to believe that the Crown's case is inadequate....and they might have something to say about that along with a whole lot more information to back their story up.

Occam's Razor came up in conversation recently and in applying it, it seems to me that the mass of information WSers have put together is overly complex---furthermore, I don't believe WSers have come to or even could come to agreement on a single, believable and probable scenario. [That is not to diminish the thought and effort that everyone has poured into this site since 2013---the sleuthing, the debating etc have been compelling since the beginning]

The jurors on the other hand have been listening to a single cohesive and sequential presentation that is rich with expert testimony in many areas, in addition to some powerful visuals......They are not listening to a mass of conflicting opinions and suppositions. There are some days following here online when I longed to be a juror and have only one well supported story in my head...it would have been a whole lot easier. And yes, I am trusting the Crown's case to this point and trust furthermore that the investigative branch has spent over 2+ years making sure they got this as right as is humanly possible IMO....

I'm afraid you may have misunderstood my post. I don't think the jury is at a disadvantage at all, nor do I think the Crown has (so far) been inadequate at presenting it's case. Simply, the jurors and WS's see the case and the evidence from two different vantage points. I didn't mean to imply that was a bad thing, as far as the Crown's case is concerned.

 

[matou]

The info from the neighbour is in the link I posted. He was seen at his Etobicoke house on Tuesday and Wednesday night and tools were visible in the backyard (not seen in video). Shocking and I forgot about this is that there is a Tim Bosma Missing Poster on a pole just outside of DM's house.

See video: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/missing-ontario-man-s-truck-believed-found-1.1317095

 

[Ontario Mom]

The info from the neighbour is in the link I posted. He was seen at his Etobicoke house on Tuesday and Wednesday night and tools were visible in the backyard (not seen in video). Shocking and I forgot about this is that there is a Tim Bosma Missing Poster on a pole just outside of DM's house.

See video: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/missing-ontario-man-s-truck-believed-found-1.1317095

I drive past the duplex all the time while running errands in town. That is, the blue duplex that Terri-Lyn McClintic lived in when Tori Stafford went missing. One day, the road was blocked off and there was a detour and no one in town yet knew why. The news broke that she was arrested for her part in Tori's abduction and when the road was re-opened after local LE was done at that duplex, the next time I drove by noticed one of the "missing" flyers taped to the screen door at her duplex. Sickeningly ironic.

 

[Errrr]

Looks up MS's records. And not every crime results in charges, just so you know.

ETA - if DM is the "ringleader", his "entourage" are his runners...insulation. And having a nice big $6M dollar base of operations, complete with security, is ever drug dealers ideal situation IMO

Yes, don't forget, DM is heaven sent.

 

[ABro]

I am of the mind that many on WS have actually over-thought the whole thing.....the jurors have the advantage of not having a head full of non-essentials. To think that they are at a disadvantage is to believe that the Crown's case is inadequate....and they might have something to say about that along with a whole lot more information to back their story up.

Occam's Razor came up in conversation recently and in applying it, it seems to me that the mass of information WSers have put together is overly complex

In general, I find on this and other true crime discussion sites, there's a real tendency not to see the forest for the trees.

Some people become so engaged with the crimes they follow, they don't want to let go of the mystery. They are addicted to the "puzzle aspect" of things, and that can be dangerous because it leads to forgetting these are real events involving real people not just fodder for never-ending discussions.

 

[Arnie M]

Another story I have always wondered about, it was reported by Maple Gate neighbours that a 'group of young men' were seen doing 'landscaping' shortly after May 6 were they not? How does that play into our timeline? I am wondering if anything was ever found IN THE GROUND at Maple Gate? MOO

Yes , I remember that too .... the neighbor said they were doing remedial work .... kinda strange considering how busy they were with all those other things. One of those neighbors also had a camera on his garage . Never heard anything more about it.

 

[Errrr]

At that time, I'm sure he had no idea that there were financial troubles looming. If you want to "eliminate someone" what better way. And money was likely no object to him back then. Can't wait for her trial to see the Internet searches around that purchase.

You have to admit it was very effective. He never would have been caught if he'd stopped at 2. I do question the mind of someone who can even contemplate an incinerator for a human body disposal however.

I think he's proven himself to be a little "off", just like I believe he was described as a kid I believe.

MOO

There may have been a lot of thought about the disposal of evidence. First, a wood chipper.....but that's messy and leaves a lot of DNA splattered about.
Lake Ontario has no sharks.
A hog farm would be pretty good. Not much DNA left in that scenario except hogs aren't necessarily as efficient as you would hope, as Willy Picton proved. Hogs are also a lot of smelly work.
An incinerator is perrrrrfect...and cheaper than a farm.
The problem with bringing people into the inner circle is what to do with them when they become inconvenient and you need to lose them? They know too much and you can't afford to be blackmailed. Ask the mafia.

 

[Prairie_dawg]

...The problem with bringing people into the inner circle is what to do with them when they become inconvenient and you need to lose them? They know too much and you can't afford to be blackmailed. ...

Trick is to always have MORE on them then they have on you. Hit their 'pressure points' and they become your puppets easily. I think quite a bit of leverage is used by DM over his minions. We shall see if that angle comes out as the case progresses. I suspect it will. JMO

 

[Kamille]

Nothing about digging in the ground. I remember there was an interview with a neighbour on Maple Gate. So cell phone pings should show DM at his home Wednesday, May 8th in the evening. Maybe Smich's too.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/missing-ontario-man-s-truck-believed-found-1.1317095

Wednesday of that week is the one day that Smich and DM did not connect. DM likely burned up the seats in the morning at the farm on his way to the hangar and then spent the day at the hangar, meeting with SH among other things, and then returned to Maplegate in the early evening. MS's records show that he was in Oakville the entire day and evening.

So the men at DM's house that night were likely any roommates that he had and/or friends, other than MS and SS, that were uninvolved in this crime. Probably the same night DM was "washing" evidence as well.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Trick is to always have MORE on them then they have on you. Hit their 'pressure points' and they become your puppets easily. I think quite a bit of leverage is used by DM over his minions. We shall see if that angle comes out as the case progresses. I suspect it will. JMO

Yes...if someone has a minor role in one murder that you've committed, make sure they are involved in another one to cement that loyalty, even if it's a surprise to them. I wonder what MS knew or suspected about WM's death as well? Since that one did not require a body clean up, perhaps that's why DM left MS out of the equation. But I bet MS knew DM's feelings towards his father. Do you think he told investigators what he knew?

MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

I think there are two theories now that drive me bonkers.

One is that it was all an accident: that DM and MS never intended to kill.

The other is that MS did all the dirty work: he was the triggerman.

Both in an odd way support the innocence of DM. What the theories share is a need to know a whole bunch of backstory that the jury will never hear - that the two had the gun for drug running and the incinerator for LB and they never planned to kill TB. Or that MS was dying to play the killer in real life as he did in the Ghozted video.

The Crown has pared the facts of the case so as to focus on this crime against TB only. We have to forget about the other garbage - it's not relevant.

 

[Tealgrove]

The info from the neighbour is in the link I posted. He was seen at his Etobicoke house on Tuesday and Wednesday night and tools were visible in the backyard (not seen in video). Shocking and I forgot about this is that there is a Tim Bosma Missing Poster on a pole just outside of DM's house.

See video: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/missing-ontario-man-s-truck-believed-found-1.1317095

It is my understanding that when Dellen Millard was arrested, the Bosma Army plastered the Markland Woods area as well as the Kleinburg area in hopes of getting more information. Tim was still missing. They wanted to find Tim. The thought was that Tim's body might be in area frequented by DM.

I have a friend who lives in the area and she tells me that there are still posters that she runs across every now and then.

 

[Errrr]

Interesting - I don't remember ever reading that.

Maybe police thought evidence could have been hidden in the stones?

Maybe the neighbours have been calling them stoners.

 

[matou]

[h=1]Tim Bosma Murder Trial: Police surveillance of Dellen Millard | EXHIBIT #102[/h]
[video=youtube;D84580dKCiQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D84580dKCiQ&index=2&list=UUnsj4TU7mOQ-4l2HOaRekgA[/video]

 

[matou]

[h=1]Tim Bosma Murder Trial: A witness watches Millardair hangar | EXHIBIT #101[/h]
[video=youtube;K-1IqixA-mo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-1IqixA-mo&index=1&list=UUnsj4TU7mOQ-4l2HOaRekgA[/video]

 

[Gumshew]

There may have been a lot of thought about the disposal of evidence. First, a wood chipper.....but that's messy and leaves a lot of DNA splattered about.
Lake Ontario has no sharks.
A hog farm would be pretty good. Not much DNA left in that scenario except hogs aren't necessarily as efficient as you would hope, as Willy Picton proved. Hogs are also a lot of smelly work.
An incinerator is perrrrrfect...and cheaper than a farm.
The problem with bringing people into the inner circle is what to do with them when they become inconvenient and you need to lose them? They know too much and you can't afford to be blackmailed. Ask the mafia.

Excellent explication.

Although, the mafia's cement shoe method fairly quickly evolved into just shots with an untraceable gun. And they are rather careful about who is in their inner circle.

But if you had, say, a bunch of dopey misfit criminals, I could definitely see how they would be influenced by the movie Fargo or the serial killer H.H.Holmes, and think these were good ideas!

 

[Kamille]

I think there are two theories now that drive me bonkers.

One is that it was all an accident: that DM and MS never intended to kill.

The other is that MS did all the dirty work: he was the triggerman.

Both in an odd way support the innocence of DM. What the theories share is a need to know a whole bunch of backstory that the jury will never hear - that the two had the gun for drug running and the incinerator for LB and they never planned to kill TB. Or that MS was dying to play the killer in real life as he did in the Ghozted video.

The Crown has pared the facts of the case so as to focus on this crime against TB only. We have to forget about the other garbage - it's not relevant.

Thing is, that stuff you call "garbage" is important reality. The fact that our criminal justice system is set up to disallow most of that "garbage" to be presented by the Crown means that the jury is not getting the full picture and while we can't change that, we can think that there is a problem with that and discuss it. I think we all would like to see both of these guys convicted of first degree murder in this case, but because WE (not the jury) know about all this other "garbage" we also know that the picture the jury is getting is a little skewed already and will be even more skewed when the defense get their respective turns. The jury are going to see an epic battle of finger pointing and misinformation when the Crown rests IMO. And I think that the resulting confusion is going to make it difficult for the jury to find both guilty of premeditated first degree murder.

MOO

 

[Gumshew]

Trick is to always have MORE on them then they have on you. Hit their 'pressure points' and they become your puppets easily. I think quite a bit of leverage is used by DM over his minions. We shall see if that angle comes out as the case progresses. I suspect it will. JMO

Unless someone becomes unmanageable because of their drinking, drug use or mental heath problem? Just speculating. Sometimes blackmail may not work.

 

[JuneBug67]

I think there are two theories now that drive me bonkers.

One is that it was all an accident: that DM and MS never intended to kill.

The other is that MS did all the dirty work: he was the triggerman.

Both in an odd way support the innocence of DM. What the theories share is a need to know a whole bunch of backstory that the jury will never hear - that the two had the gun for drug running and the incinerator for LB and they never planned to kill TB. Or that MS was dying to play the killer in real life as he did in the Ghozted video.

The Crown has pared the facts of the case so as to focus on this crime against TB only. We have to forget about the other garbage - it's not relevant.

I think the facts support the theory that killing was not plan A as well as they support anything else. They weren't planning to kill, but ultimately they were willing to. I think that is a more accurate expression of the general theory than the idea that it was all just a terrible accident and they didn't mean it.

 

[Gumshew]

While it was reported in the beginning that the hangar appeared to be full of stolen vehicles, and the place looked like a chop shop, that has never been confirmed. The trailer and bike...yes they were stolen...although I personally think he was after the trailer and the bike was a bonus. I think all the trailers may have been stolen and modified. Easy to steal trailers.

A hangar full of stolen vehicles turned into less than 10 vehicles in the hangar. We are not seeing any evidence so far that any of the other vehicles in the hangar were stolen and I personally doubt that they were stolen. I think they were just heaps that he got from people trying to get rid of cars that he was either given or negotiated for a cheap price and that he and his friends liked to play with and rebuild. Didn't they drive all the way to Nevada or somewhere to get the Camaro? There were probably old cars that belonged to CM and WM in there as well. To me the whole chop shop thing is non existent. They were buying car parts, not selling them. They were probably selling the cars once they fixed them up though...for a profit.

MOO

They wouldn't have been working on restoring vintage lowriders, would they?