Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #6

[Claroon]

Does anyone know if LE ever looked into Elisabeth Glass' death? There was a thread here about her a while back. DM seems to have written a very odd obituary for her as well that was along the lines of his obituary for his father.

Interesting the phone number for the "executor" is DM's house on Maple Gate. Seems to me she was WM girlfriend, so you'd think the executor would be her brother.

 

[Pink Panther]

I'd like them to check out that blood on the boat incident. He apparently said he took one girl to shore and picked up another? Yes 3 we know of, but I wouldn't exclude the possibility of others. IMO And by the way, it is only a little more than an hour to London from the hangar. And London has a great airport too.

Me too. "Supposedly" this was all cleared up. I have my doubts…He passed it all off as "menstrual" blood and that was the end of that. Good way to put an end to it. Embarrassing and quickly shut down. I'm a female. I don't think it's "normal" to be bleeding onto a floor of a boat or on land (strange to fathom) without at least cleaning up. Such a weird story.

 

[Pink Panther]

Interesting the phone number for the "executor" is DM's house on Maple Gate. Seems to me she was WM girlfriend, so you'd think the executor would be her brother.

Her brother appeared in an article that implied that both WM and his sister were drinkers. Other than that, there is little else. We don't know when or where she died and we have no idea why DM posted the weird and strange obituary for her. Her brother lives in the States and has not weighed in on anything about DM.

 

[Arnie M]

I'm starting to really believe that the killing was the main objective as well, but I have a hard time with the "thrill kill" theory, for several reasons. If you wanted to commit a murder for the thrill of it, would you not go out of your way to avoid witnesses? Why go to the victim's house and leave with him, after being seen by two​ eyewitnesses from as close as 10 feet away, and then continue with the murder? That makes no sense to me either IMO. So what are we missing?

Here is how I see it

--- They scouted out the place , saw it was rural , places to hide the Yukon , minimum witnesses compared to if they met in Hamilton like Tim suggested
--- They had Tim on the phone as they walked up the driveway so they did not have to knock on the door (less witnesses)
--- Tim would have been an excellent witness but they had no concern because they knew he would be eliminated.
--- They would not carry the gun unless they planned to use it . Auto theft is a minor charge compared to carrying a loaded illegal handgun. As a matter of fact the biggest deterrent for criminals not to carry their illegal weapons is the risk of police finding it if they get stopped for a minor infraction.

Personally , I would change "Thrill Kill" to ... "Thrill Of The Plan" .... they fancied themselves smarter than the killers in the movie "Fargo" (wood chipper) .... or Willie Pickton (wood chipper and pigs) .... they convinced themselves they had the best way to eliminate evidence .... the last thing on their mind was getting caught .... they felt infallible within their own fantasy plan.

And lets face it , they would have succeeded if not for the huge publicity (rare) and Igor spotting the ambition Tattoo. That includes the temporary employee at the hangar , without the huge publicity he would not have thought twice about another vehicle in the hangar

Thousands of vehicles are stolen every year in the Toronto area , and plenty of adults "go missing" , it is routine , and it is rare for police to do much more than fill in a report , they simply do not have the resources.

The reward for DM would be the making of the "clever" plan and having it succeed. Outsmart everybody. Prove to himself and his small circle of friends that he could indeed be successful at something.

However , DM's list of successes remains very short.

 

[Arnie M]

the texts between DM and SH are here @2:49 EXHIBIT #104. They are very blurry FWIW. Two pages.

http://www.chch.com/bosma-day-23/

Just a note for the folks who wanted a good look at the upper level doors on the barn ... it is at 2:44 in the video. Those upper floors are strong wood timbers and planks .... built like a wooden bridge and can carry heavy equipment (Incinerator) ... and most of all it has tall doors for it to fit through.

.

 

[Arnie M]

In reviewing the cellphone deck, I notice DM had communication happening with his ex with a call even originating close to where the ex lived. Got me wondering if DM was hoping that JS could hold onto some evidence for him or wondering if DM and JS were still a number. I'm curious if JS will appear on the stand to explain the communication. MOO

(My guess) is JS is on the no-contact list since the arrest .... and may very well be a police witness as well as a court witness .... after the 2013 arrest she took a work contract in another country .... cant say I blame her .... I also suspect she was the one who called off the engagement the year previous .... maybe she had good instincts about DM way back then.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Justin Robertson ‎@justinatthespec
Unconfirmed, but a resident said she saw a flatbed truck removed from Smich's home today. It was full of stones.
10:57 PM - 22 May 2013

https://storify.com/justinjourno/spectator-a-fistful-of-tweets-on-the-tim-bosma-inv

I'm curious: what's that?

 

[andreww]

Exhibit 84 is still available online. I've not heard of any exhibits that were released and then redacted? Was there another exhibit from the computer and Ipad seizures that was redacted?

https://docs.google.com/presentatio...lXFyWyCdHr42Ho/edit?pref=2&pli=1#slide=id.p13

[video=youtube;cfO7B9rgltE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfO7B9rgltE[/video]

But I understand what you mean. Some exhibits and evidence that have been presented have not been released at all for reasons that we are not privy to. I think we are all interested in the video of the vehicles from the Super Sucker Vacuum surveillance video and the Brantford Bobcat surveillance video but for some reason, only screen grabs of both videos were released. Perhaps they were just not put into a format that could be released to the media? Or either the Crown or defense has requested them to be sealed for some reason?

MOO

Having thought about this for a little while, my only conclusion is that the defence will at some point call their own expert to discredit evidence that has been presented in these two videos. So even though the prosecution has finished with them, the defence isn't, thus the cannot be released to the public.


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[Deleted member 102539]

I'm starting to really believe that the killing was the main objective as well, but I have a hard time with the "thrill kill" theory, for several reasons. If you wanted to commit a murder for the thrill of it, would you not go out of your way to avoid witnesses? Why go to the victim's house and leave with him, after being seen by two​ eyewitnesses from as close as 10 feet away, and then continue with the murder? That makes no sense to me either IMO. So what are we missing?

Maybe, level 2 of a thrill kill is to have witnesses? LB murder, IF done= probably no witness. WM murder, IF done= probably no witness. Girl-on-boat murder, IF done= probably no witness. Maybe, it was boring to murder only in the presence of MS or even without MS. Perhaps the next level was due for DM?

 

[andreww]

Here is how I see it

--- They scouted out the place , saw it was rural , places to hide the Yukon , minimum witnesses compared to if they met in Hamilton like Tim suggested
--- They had Tim on the phone as they walked up the driveway so they did not have to knock on the door (less witnesses)
--- Tim would have been an excellent witness but they had no concern because they knew he would be eliminated.
--- They would not carry the gun unless they planned to use it . Auto theft is a minor charge compared to carrying a loaded illegal handgun. As a matter of fact the biggest deterrent for criminals not to carry their illegal weapons is the risk of police finding it if they get stopped for a minor infraction.

Personally , I would change "Thrill Kill" to ... "Thrill Of The Plan" .... they fancied themselves smarter than the killers in the movie "Fargo" (wood chipper) .... or Willie Pickton (wood chipper and pigs) .... they convinced themselves they had the best way to eliminate evidence .... the last thing on their mind was getting caught .... they felt infallible within their own fantasy plan.

And lets face it , they would have succeeded if not for the huge publicity (rare) and Igor spotting the ambition Tattoo. That includes the temporary employee at the hangar , without the huge publicity he would not have thought twice about another vehicle in the hangar

Thousands of vehicles are stolen every year in the Toronto area , and plenty of adults "go missing" , it is routine , and it is rare for police to do much more than fill in a report , they simply do not have the resources.

The reward for DM would be the making of the "clever" plan and having it succeed. Outsmart everybody. Prove to himself and his small circle of friends that he could indeed be successful at something.

However , DM's list of successes remains very short.

I agree with a lot of what you've said but I still feel this was all about the truck. The fact that Millard had been drooling over that ad for months gives me the impression that he was like a kid who wanted a new toy, and he was going to get it one way or another.

It's interesting as well that this case was so publicized, in my opinion because Tim had disappeared because of a Kijiji ad. The story was not simply about a missing man, it was about the dangers of meeting people online. It's actually funny that Millard was not even accessing the Kijiji ad, but instead was using the AutoTrader site.


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[jash]

Justin Robertson ‎@justinatthespec
Unconfirmed, but a resident said she saw a flatbed truck removed from Smich's home today. It was full of stones.
10:57 PM - 22 May 2013

https://storify.com/justinjourno/spectator-a-fistful-of-tweets-on-the-tim-bosma-inv

I'm curious: what's that?

Interesting - I don't remember ever reading that.

Maybe police thought evidence could have been hidden in the stones?

 

[andreww]

That would be really really hard, to separate what you've read in the media from what the Crown (and defense) presents in court. They sure do have a brutal job.

Doesn't matter. In this case the evidence is overwhelming, so far anyway.


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[Gibson67]

Anything is possible. I don't dispute the premeditation at all. I do dispute what might be seen from the terminal or tower. If you want to see what the the view is from the tower, check out this webcam http://www.metcam.navcanada.ca/hb/player.jsp?lang=e&site=CYKF. Especially note how little is visible in the dark. Also look at the north view. I think the hangar is way up in the left corner. If they were doing this behind the hangar, as in the North side, I think that would really be out of tower view. Now if security drove around on a regular basis, that's another matter.

my brother is an air traffic controller at an Ontario airport and he says Waterloo shuts down at 10 pm and not even fire and rescue are on site. I asked him about security..he joked and said they would probably be sitting with feet up watching TV in between doing rounds. Not sure if they would secure that hangar same time every night but I am sure DM would know the time if they did. Perhaps that is why the hangar lights never went on until the wee hours of the morning..they would not want to alert security to anyone being there maybe.

I am very surprised that security cameras around the airport itself were not able to catch anything going on that night...the Nav Canada images catch the hangar at a distance and takes images 24-7 unfortunately at a distance..but no other buildings on the premises closer than the tower?

 

[Gibson67]

is this not the hangar from the NAV CANADA website top right? this is west view image..or is this another hangar?

http://www.metcam.navcanada.ca/hb/player.jsp?lang=e&site=CYKF

 

[Ontario Mom]

Doesn't matter. In this case the evidence is overwhelming, so far anyway.


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Well I think it does matter. Especially since their job is to take *only* evidence and testimony presented by both sides, and make their decision on that criteria alone.

I'm pretty sure here at WS, our opinion of the evidence so far is quite different from the jury's collective opinion, only because here, many of us have spent the last 3 years digging deep into every detail (as well as the personal character and lifestyle of pretty much everyone involved). To most of us, the evidence and testimony does seem quite compelling but what if we knew zero to nothing about this case (or any of the people involved) and were just hearing it all for the first time? I'm not so sure we'd see it the same way.

moo.

 

[billandrew]

Some random thoughts about the incinerator:

I wonder what DM told SS it would be used for. If it was disposing of human bodies, would SS have had the conscience to continue working for DM, let alone order such a device for his boss? Would he be able to enthusiastically email the seller that "it sounds awesome when it fires up!"? Using it to burn car parts doesn't make much sense to me, either. Is it not better to recycle or dispose of car parts in other ways, given their size and material composition? Perhaps SS understood it would be used for burning airport waste as part of an MRO/FBO business plan, or alternatively a pet cremation device as DM allegedly told Dubien.

I also wonder what DM's actual intents were when he decided to purchase this device. We may never know. Did he have a dream of becoming the ultimate serial killer? Or did he have a genuine business idea in mind, such as pet cremation or waste incineration? If the incinerator was acquired for nefarious purposes, I'm surprised that DM would make such a leap with, as far as we know, no previous history of violence. If he had never had blood on his hands, how would he know that killing people would be something he'd want to do?

A few people, such as SS and Dubien, knew about the incinerator, so it's not like DM went to extreme lengths to keep it a secret from everyone. He stored it in the barn instead of the hangar, as if to keep it somewhat out of sight, but then he sent people to work at the barn where they would see it. Maybe storing such a device at the hangar was a violation of airport security? Would you need some special clearance to keep an incinerator on the airport grounds?

 

[Abitcountry]

Well I think it does matter. Especially since their job is to take *only* evidence and testimony presented by both sides, and make their decision on that criteria alone.

I'm pretty sure here at WS, our opinion of the evidence so far is quite different from the jury's collective opinion, only because here, many of us have spent the last 3 years digging deep into every detail (as well as the personal character and lifestyle of pretty much everyone involved). To most of us, the evidence and testimony does seem quite compelling but what if we knew zero to nothing about this case (or any of the people involved) and were just hearing it all for the first time? I'm not so sure we'd see it the same way.

moo.

I am of the mind that many on WS have actually over-thought the whole thing.....the jurors have the advantage of not having a head full of non-essentials. To think that they are at a disadvantage is to believe that the Crown's case is inadequate....and they might have something to say about that along with a whole lot more information to back their story up.

Occam's Razor came up in conversation recently and in applying it, it seems to me that the mass of information WSers have put together is overly complex---furthermore, I don't believe WSers have come to or even could come to agreement on a single, believable and probable scenario. [That is not to diminish the thought and effort that everyone has poured into this site since 2013---the sleuthing, the debating etc have been compelling since the beginning]

The jurors on the other hand have been listening to a single cohesive and sequential presentation that is rich with expert testimony in many areas, in addition to some powerful visuals......They are not listening to a mass of conflicting opinions and suppositions. There are some days following here online when I longed to be a juror and have only one well supported story in my head...it would have been a whole lot easier. And yes, I am trusting the Crown's case to this point and trust furthermore that the investigative branch has spent over 2+ years making sure they got this as right as is humanly possible IMO....

 

[Prairie_dawg]

...
Personally , I would change "Thrill Kill" to ... "Thrill Of The Plan" .... they fancied themselves smarter than the killers in the movie "Fargo" (wood chipper) .... or Willie Pickton (wood chipper and pigs) .... they convinced themselves they had the best way to eliminate evidence .... the last thing on their mind was getting caught .... they felt infallible within their own fantasy plan.
...

<rsbm>

I have always been wondering WHY they needed a wood chipper at the hanger. NO MRO needs a chipper. If he needed at the farm then keep it at the farm in the barn like the incinerator. There are just so many in-congruent things about the hanger and DM's life and to me that chipper is as much of an elephant in the room as the incinerator. Some commented early on about clearing brush around the hanger but that is totally ridiculous. JMO

 

[Prairie_dawg]

Another story I have always wondered about, it was reported by Maple Gate neighbours that a 'group of young men' were seen doing 'landscaping' shortly after May 6 were they not? How does that play into our timeline? I am wondering if anything was ever found IN THE GROUND at Maple Gate? MOO

 

[matou]

Earlier this week, Millard's home was raided by Toronto police, neighbours said. He lived there alone after his father died six months ago. He was last seen by neighbours Wednesday evening working outside on his house with a few other men.

Nothing about digging in the ground. I remember there was an interview with a neighbour on Maple Gate. So cell phone pings should show DM at his home Wednesday, May 8th in the evening. Maybe Smich's too.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/missing-ontario-man-s-truck-believed-found-1.1317095