Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #9

[Ontario Mom]

Sorry you are right, Im getting lost with all this initial business lol.

But the other thing I found disturbing in MH's testimony is this. He says he didn't know what was in the toolbox or the backpack. He says Millard didn't tell him anything. He says he and AM did not discuss the contents of either item in their possession. So tell me this, what possible information did he have that led him to call CrimeStoppers and finger Smich?

Something is just not right. In my opinion both MH and AM had a pretty good idea what was in those items. For some reason simply disposing of them wasn't going to be of help to Millard. He needed these items to be in Smich's hands and then he needed a call to CrimeStoppers. MH & AM knew that Smich was possibly being watched so the left the items in the stairwell, later alerting Smich to there whereabouts. Once they knew he'd retrieved them, the call was made to CrimeStoppers. Unfortunately for them Smich had already disposed of the contents of the toolbox. I'm positive that Millard was doing his best to set Smich up, likely as a means to shift blame away from himself, but fortunately for Smich it opens the door to a "I was framed" defence.

MH testified that AM told him, that DM wanted the back pack and tool box to go to MS. AM allegedly told MH that DM was in trouble, it was all over the news, and they turned the car radio on and heard some news report about it. At which point they both freaked (allegedly) and agreed to dump the items in a random spot - for whoever to collect them, themselves. If one were in that situation, it would be logical to assume MS had something to do with whatever DM just got busted for, since DM had said he wanted those items to go to MS.

Then again - this is assuming all of the above is actually true, and exactly the way it went down. I think it will be very interesting to hear AM's version of events, when he takes the stand.

 

[Inspector_North]

Sorry you are right, Im getting lost with all this initial business lol.

But the other thing I found disturbing in MH's testimony is this. He says he didn't know what was in the toolbox or the backpack. He says Millard didn't tell him anything. He says he and AM did not discuss the contents of either item in their possession. So tell me this, what possible information did he have that led him to call CrimeStoppers and finger Smich?

Something is just not right. In my opinion both MH and AM had a pretty good idea what was in those items. For some reason simply disposing of them wasn't going to be of help to Millard. He needed these items to be in Smich's hands and then he needed a call to CrimeStoppers. MH & AM knew that Smich was possibly being watched so the left the items in the stairwell, later alerting Smich to there whereabouts. Once they knew he'd retrieved them, the call was made to CrimeStoppers. Unfortunately for them Smich had already disposed of the contents of the toolbox. I'm positive that Millard was doing his best to set Smich up, likely as a means to shift blame away from himself, but fortunately for Smich it opens the door to a "I was framed" defence.

Without date and times for all the activity you use to make your case, I am skeptical.

left the items in the stairwell - We know this to be May 11th
Once they knew he'd retrieved them, the call was made to CrimeStoppers. - Do we know this date?

After hearing from BD and the toolbox travel, I doubt your theory holds. Arthur had it for awhile, Bleach was looking to buy the gun, and only after that did MS dispose of the gun.

He had until the 14th to get rid of the gun. I would assume a surveillance would have started earlier if MH called CS around the 11th.

MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

<rsbm>

Something is just not right. In my opinion both MH and AM had a pretty good idea what was in those items. For some reason simply disposing of them wasn't going to be of help to Millard. He needed these items to be in Smich's hands and then he needed a call to CrimeStoppers. MH & AM knew that Smich was possibly being watched so the left the items in the stairwell, later alerting Smich to there whereabouts. Once they knew he'd retrieved them, the call was made to CrimeStoppers. Unfortunately for them Smich had already disposed of the contents of the toolbox. I'm positive that Millard was doing his best to set Smich up, likely as a means to shift blame away from himself, but fortunately for Smich it opens the door to a "I was framed" defence.

I guess what I don't agree with in this part is the idea that DM wanted to direct heat ay MS, because he was still linked to this after all. I am not sure I believe that MH called Crimestoppers or that that was part of anyone's plan. They seemed more intent on not incriminating themselves.

 

[diesiel]

Just a half day today? Sort of surprising considering a full day of legal args yesterday.

are the "best" witnesses still to come? I assume the crown reserves the most damning testimony closer to the end of the trial, so its fresher for the jury?

 

[RandomName479]

Without date and times for all the activity you use to make your case, I am skeptical.

left the items in the stairwell - We know this to be May 11th
Once they knew he'd retrieved them, the call was made to CrimeStoppers. - Do we know this date?

After hearing from BD and the toolbox travel, I doubt your theory holds. Arthur had it for awhile, Bleach was looking to buy the gun, and only after that did MS dispose of the gun.

He had until the 14th to get rid of the gun. I would assume a surveillance would have started earlier if MH called CS around the 11th.

MOO

We have MH's testimony that he called CS.....and this was only brought about by TD yelling at him. CS does not log calls.....no way it can be verified. But I do not recall MH saying that he called CS only AFTER MS had retrieved the items.....he was not specific at all about the timing of the call....MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

We have MH's testimony that he called CS.....and this was only brought about by TD yelling at him. CS does not log calls.....no way it can be verified. But I do not recall MH saying that he called CS only AFTER MS had retrieved the items.....he was not specific at all about the timing of the call....MOO

They give callers a case number. MH could have produced that and verified that he was the one that made the call associated with the case number.

 

[brightii]

I thought it was said somewhere that DM had a bedroom setup at the hanger, and would sometimes stay there? Could be that it was normal DM activity to be there late? While MH said they used to play video games at the hanger at night, he did mention that they were starting to disperse from that meeting spot after WM died.

Just looking at an alternative reason for SS expecting DM at the hanger after 8:00, if in fact that is the case.

MOO

I don't recall it being said that DM had a bedroom at the hangar, but I may just not have seen that info shared here or elsewhere. I do recall it having been said that sometimes DM would shower and sleep there, and I imagined that there may have been a sofa in his office for him to crash on. Unless there was some activity planned with others or a specific purpose for DM to be at the hanger on the night of May 6th, I don't think he would necessarily or normally choose the hangar over his own home as a place to sleep, IMO. I do think SS knows more about the night of May 6th than he revealed in his testimony, although luckily for him, it could not be proved, IMO. SS's text seems imply to me and others that SS was expecting DM at the hangar. I only wish we knew why. And we do know that DM was there in the early hours of May 7th with someone. I'm not yet convinced that the someone was MS. To date, IIRC, only SS has identified the men in the hangar video as being both DM and MS, IMO. Have any others?

All MOO.

 

[Inspector_North]

On May 10th when DM was arrested, he didn't have any idea of all the evidence we've seen. What he did know was that AJ called CS on the 9th. So what did he do the evening of the 9th?

Hide Truck - check
hide dvr -check
hide toolbox -check
hide weed -check (notice that this remained at his residence with AM)
hide Eliminator - check
Run hose? -check

After the arrest, he may have reviewed the check list and decided that the toolbox and weed were better in the hands of someone he could trust not to turn it over. And that would be MS who was just as responsible as himself.

MOO

 

[RandomName479]

I don't recall it being said that DM had a bedroom at the hangar, but I may just not have seen that info shared here or elsewhere. I do recall it having been said that sometimes DM would shower and sleep there, and I imagined that there may have been a sofa in his office for him to crash on. Unless there was some activity planned with others or a specific purpose for DM to be at the hanger on the night of May 6th, I don't think he would necessarily or normally choose the hangar over his own home as a place to sleep, IMO. I do think SS knows more about the night of May 6th than he revealed in his testimony, although luckily for him, it could not be proved, IMO. SS's text seems imply to me and others that SS was expecting DM at the hangar. I only wish we knew why. And we do know that DM was there in the early hours of May 7th with someone. I'm not yet convinced that the someone was MS. To date, IIRC, only SS has identified the men in the hangar video as being both DM and MS, IMO. Have any others?

All MOO.

So you don't think it was MS on the test drive with TB, despite his phone pinging in Ancaster when it received texts from his gf MM? You think DM had his phone and decided to shut it off later, but leave his own on? IMO MS was there.....

ETA - we also have video that he WAS with DM the next am when they picked up MM......

 

[Deleted member 102539]

MH testified that AM told him, that DM wanted the back pack and tool box to go to MS. AM allegedly told MH that DM was in trouble, it was all over the news, and they turned the car radio on and heard some news report about it. At which point they both freaked (allegedly) and agreed to dump the items in a random spot - for whoever to collect them, themselves. If one were in that situation, it would be logical to assume MS had something to do with whatever DM just got busted for, since DM had said he wanted those items to go to MS.

Then again - this is assuming all of the above is actually true, and exactly the way it went down. I think it will be very interesting to hear AM's version of events, when he takes the stand.

I think, AS meant MS was an accomplice to the theft and therefore he had to decide what would have to happen with the backpack and the toolbox. I don't think DM indeed had ordered to give the things to MS. And I also don't think DM would have wanted to frame his accomplice, that would have been stupid to do.

 

[meterclicks]

I think, AS meant MS was an accomplice to the theft and therefore he had to decide what would have to happen with the backpack and the toolbox. I don't think DM indeed had ordered to give the things to MS. And I also don't think DM would have wanted to frame his accomplice, that would have been stupid to do.

bbm

ALL of this was stupid to do.

 

[Errrr]

Some see getting the toolbox and pack-sack to MS (indirectly) as trying to get incriminating evidence to MS. Others see it as getting evidence away from LE.

Guess it all depends on perspective of evidence presented to date.

MOO

If DM wanted MS to get that stuff why didn't he leave it with him earlier in the day when he dropped him off? Why did MH argue with AM that it should NOT go to MS?

 

[Errrr]

MH testified that AM told him, that DM wanted the back pack and tool box to go to MS. AM allegedly told MH that DM was in trouble, it was all over the news, and they turned the car radio on and heard some news report about it. At which point they both freaked (allegedly) and agreed to dump the items in a random spot - for whoever to collect them, themselves. If one were in that situation, it would be logical to assume MS had something to do with whatever DM just got busted for, since DM had said he wanted those items to go to MS.

Then again - this is assuming all of the above is actually true, and exactly the way it went down. I think it will be very interesting to hear AM's version of events, when he takes the stand.

MH said that AM said that DM Would have wanted it to go to MS., which suggested that DM did not actually say so. MH disagreed with him. It seemed as though DM did not want MS disposing of his gun. IMO

 

[Inspector_North]

If DM wanted MS to get that stuff why didn't he leave it with him earlier in the day when he dropped him off? Why did MH argue with AM that it should NOT go to MS?

Can I reply on Thursday? :drumroll:

 

[andreww]

<rsbm>



I guess what I don't agree with in this part is the idea that DM wanted to direct heat ay MS, because he was still linked to this after all. I am not sure I believe that MH called Crimestoppers or that that was part of anyone's plan. They seemed more intent on not incriminating themselves.

I guess we have to disagree then. I don't think AM and MH are as dumb as they are playing. Young people talk, especially when drama is happening. I think all the main players in this caper were aware from sometime around the 8th that Millard had Bosma's truck. None of them are going to admit to it, but one of them had to have figured it out. They all apparently knew that Millard was looking for a diesel Ram, and then this story hits the front page the same day Millard tells everybody not to come to the hangar, and not one of them figured it out? SS actually saw the truck and still claimed he didn't make the connection. Really? Again, I don't see any point in getting the weapon to Smich. Millard should have buried it. MH could have buried it. Why? There is more to this. It all ties in to why it seems Smich and Millard seem to have severed ties somewhere after the 7th. Why was CN enlisted to take Smich's place? Was there a falling out?

 

[matou]

Bets on whether a legal argument will start off the day in court? JMO

 

[andreww]

MH said that AM said that DM Would have wanted it to go to MS., which suggested that DM did not actually say so. MH disagreed with him. It seemed as though DM did not want MS disposing of his gun. IMO

Think about it. Why would AM know anything about the toolbox unless Millard had given him some sort of direction? How would he know MH had it? I don't think Millard would have been getting messages out from jail by that point so I assume it was a "If I get pinched, I need you to do me a favour..." type deal.

 

[Ontario Mom]

If DM wanted MS to get that stuff why didn't he leave it with him earlier in the day when he dropped him off? Why did MH argue with AM that it should NOT go to MS?

Because he thought MS was a sketch and didn't want anything to do with him? Just a guess.

 

[Orderly]

Think about it. Why would AM know anything about the toolbox unless Millard had given him some sort of direction? How would he know MH had it? I don't think Millard would have been getting messages out from jail by that point so I assume it was a "If I get pinched, I need you to do me a favour..." type deal.

Yes he was, he was sending letters to CN to try to change testimony. Furthermore, if I was on your no contact list but our mutual friend or my brother wasn't what's to stop them from passing info to me.

 

[RandomName479]

Yes he was, he was sending letters to CN to try to change testimony. Furthermore, if I was on your no contact list but our mutual friend or my brother wasn't what's to stop them from passing info to me.

While I agree with you that DM violated his DNC order, I believe the original poster was referring to the fact that DM had JUST been arrested (and we now know he was interrogated for 24 hours afterwards) and would not have had the opportunity (yet) to get any messages out. AM and MH dropped the toolbox/backpack on the 11th....day after DM was arrested