Brendan Dassey's Habeas Corpus Petition Granted

[Hoosen_Fenger]

I too respect your opinion and I really appreciate the respectful way you put your post together. But like Dexter75 I just do not agree.

BBM 1 - this is a rather large assumption given the other evidence we have that there was a frame job going on. In this case and his previous rape case. LE work together.

BBM 2 - it would be way too obvious (more obvious than it already is IMO)if they tried to frame him over the top like that

BBM 3 - If we can all agree that the means used are not up to the standards we expect, then we should be able to agree that according to the law, he should be deemed innocent. We cannot allow prosecutors to work outside the law to convict anyone, even if they are responsible for the crime in question.

So here is a dilemma CoolJ,
Let us both assume for one minute they are both guilty. Would we want them to get away with Murder because the way the case was prosecuted was poor? Jails are full of innocent people, I get that, however, in this case, the chances of it being a set up are off the scale.

I'm totally in agreement with you and everyone else that feels the way this was handled, was just not up to the standards we would hope for if we were on the stand. MAM actually leaves out some of the search detail which would probably have made their point even more provocative. The thing is, Avery knew more than he let on in his first interviews.

You & I would have done a better job of framing him. We disagree and no doubt if Avery gets an appeal, I'll be the one muttering under my breath about 'The Right Guy But The Wrong Process.'

I do look forward to venting my Splein on here though.

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

Hi Sinsaint,
The reason for suggesting that people listen at the same time as reading the first interviews, is because from my perspective, (and I admit I am not professionally trained,) I would get the impression they were both lying.

If you listen to the recordings, you will hear the car door being opened and questions being fired in..... stories being fact checked.

I have not grossly fabricated anything my friend, Avery in my opinion was lying during the interviews. Other people have different opinions and I respect that.

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

Hi Missy1974,
The point I was making was that here we have two intellectually challenged individuals (I think we agree on that,) whom LE are trying to get some details from.

I'm not LE, nor a Lawyer and have zero experience in investigating crime, apart from on Websleuths.

That said, a girl goes missing, where do you start looking? The last place she was known to be. The stories don't add up from those who were there, and you get suspicious.

Also, is everyone buying the Headlights/ Tail Lights story? I don't. Dassey even messes this up in the first interview, without prompting. He says he saw them, then said he didn't.

I'm in a minority, I accept that. Based on all of the evidence I have researched, I would have found them both guilty.

 

[Limaes]

Limaes ~ I think you misunderstood. I don't see anyone here saying they should watch MaM. For myself, when I replied to Wendy, I said they didn't watch it... I was meaning the confession tapes, in full, before the trial or during the trial. MH said he didn't watch it, it's in a news clip or something. I don't blame them, they took LE and Prosecutor's word for it, because, well, they shouldn't make stuff up and tell a grieving family a story. Why wouldn't they believe them?

The Prosecution were working closely with the family the whole way and kept them informed of evidence etc. To say that the Halbachs just "took LE and Prosecutor's word for it" is a major insult to their intellect, integrity and genuine pursuit of justice for Teresa.

 

[missy1974]

The Prosecution were working closely with the family the whole way and kept them informed of evidence etc. To say that the Halbachs just "took LE and Prosecutor's word for it" is a major insult to their intellect, integrity and genuine pursuit of justice for Teresa.

You have made my point for me. They worked with LE and Prosecutors the whole time, that is where they got their information from, they trusted them, as in most cases, we should trust them. I don't fault them for trusting them and what was being told to them.

Just like Penny believed for years that SA was the one that assaulted her.... just because she believed that for 18 years, didn't make it true.

 

[missy1974]

Hi Missy1974,
The point I was making was that here we have two intellectually challenged individuals (I think we agree on that,) whom LE are trying to get some details from.

I'm not LE, nor a Lawyer and have zero experience in investigating crime, apart from on Websleuths.

That said, a girl goes missing, where do you start looking? The last place she was known to be. The stories don't add up from those who were there, and you get suspicious.

Also, is everyone buying the Headlights/ Tail Lights story? I don't. Dassey even messes this up in the first interview, without prompting. He says he saw them, then said he didn't.

I'm in a minority, I accept that. Based on all of the evidence I have researched, I would have found them both guilty.

Hey Hoosen_Fenger!

It's funny how we read/hear things differently LOL

I think like a lot of things in this case, we have looked at the smallest of details.... like the headlights story... first he said "we saw the headlights' (meaning him and Chuck), then I think he was asked, so you saw the headlights, and he said 'well, I didn't see them, but I was with Chuck when he saw them'. I just don't see that as a lie, I see it as clarification. But I get where you are coming from.

Part of what has always bothered me with BD was the fact that I have a 15 and a 16 yr old boys.... they are average every day kids, actually one is very smart, but I can see them getting 'tricked' going up against a good investigator using the same tactics they used on Brendan!

Thanks for the respectful debate and hanging in here with us.... I thought I would have lost interest in the case by now, but it brings me back almost daily to check to see if there is any news. 12 days until Zellner should file something.... so hopefully we will have lots to talk about ;-)

 

[dexter75]

You have made my point for me. They worked with LE and Prosecutors the whole time, that is where they got their information from, they trusted them, as in most cases, we should trust them. I don't fault them for trusting them and what was being told to them.

Just like Penny believed for years that SA was the one that assaulted her.... just because she believed that for 18 years, didn't make it true.

Excellent point, Missy!! Took the words right outta my mouth.

As a public, we WANT to be ABLE to TRUST LE, don't we??

Unfortunately in this case, in my opinion, it was nearly impossible..

 

[dexter75]

So here is a dilemma CoolJ,
Let us both assume for one minute they are both guilty. Would we want them to get away with Murder because the way the case was prosecuted was poor? Jails are full of innocent people, I get that, however, in this case, the chances of it being a set up are off the scale.

I'm totally in agreement with you and everyone else that feels the way this was handled, was just not up to the standards we would hope for if we were on the stand. MAM actually leaves out some of the search detail which would probably have made their point even more provocative. The thing is, Avery knew more than he let on in his first interviews.

You & I would have done a better job of framing him. We disagree and no doubt if Avery gets an appeal, I'll be the one muttering under my breath about 'The Right Guy But The Wrong Process.'

I do look forward to venting my Splein on here though.

What do you mean by " the chances of it being a set up are off the scale? "

 

[dexter75]

You have made my point for me. They worked with LE and Prosecutors the whole time, that is where they got their information from, they trusted them, as in most cases, we should trust them. I don't fault them for trusting them and what was being told to them.

Just like Penny believed for years that SA was the one that assaulted her.... just because she believed that for 18 years, didn't make it true.

You really DID just make her point for her too, Limaes:blushing:

 

[dexter75]

If he had done the right thing? Like what? Not fallen for LE tactics and been manipulated into falsely confessing with absolutely zero evidence to back it up.

If LE and the State had done the right thing, he would never have been arrested and would have been home this whole time.

I hope Teresa's family finds the truth and I hope they find peace with it.
JMO

:goodpost:

 

[dexter75]

My son is also autistic and he will do the exact same thing. I could get him to admit to anything in under five minutes if I felt like it. Getting the truth out of him is like pulling teeth because most of the time he's more interested in trying to tell me what he thinks I want him to say. It can get frustrating at times. As for BJ, I get the impression she is not exactly all that bright herself (not saying that to be disrespectful). I don't believe she even realized Brendan was intellectually disabled. She probably just told herself he needed to pay more attention at school and that he was just shy. She was very naive in her thinking that W & F were only wanting to speak to him because he may have been a witness to something. I don't think it would have helped Brendan to have her in there anyway. I mean, she would believe Avery did it one minute because someone told her that and then think Avery didn't do it because someone told her that.

OMG, spot on about BJ...with every word.
JMO

 

[Karinna]

What if the Avery's yard was not the last place TH was or went that day? Wasn't there a witness that saw her after she left the Avery's yard? A bus driver i think? Was that witness ever called to testify in court? Perhaps her last port of call that day was the Zipperer's as she was running late and couldn't find their place. So perhaps she went to SA's yard first because she knew where they were located as she had been there before?

 

[dexter75]

Hi Dexter,
Cheers for the response. We disagree and that is a good thing as it is making us both think,

I'm not going to respond to your thoughts on LE being judgemental, as I reckon we are saying the same thing. (It is what they do.)

Do you buy the $36M Lawsuit stuff? Was every Police officer bought into that? I don't think so. The reason is because as a convicted felon, it would have been less. So here is something MAM let's people easily forget....... Avery was not jailed for a total of 18 years for a crime he did not commit. Six of those years were for the crime of threatening someone with a gun. The wrongful rape conviction was horrendous and he deserves our sympathy for that, but set that aside and he was going to be sent to prison anyway.

I question some of the evidence and the way it was presented in the docuseries, but not what I have learned from my own research. Forget Kratz and his views. The makers of MAM left a ton of stuff out of the series.

I'll say this though, yes, it is clear the Police did not do the finest job of building the case for the prosecution. I do not think there was any evidence planting, but if you start with respect for their positions as Law Enforcement Officers, then by means fair or foul, you would what them to get the real culprits.

A girl went missing and was last known to be at Avery Salvage. Someone there knows what happened. The police speak to all who lived there and discovered there were lies being told. It is a coincidence that there was a lawsuit going on. Convenient for all sides to use to their advantage. The evidence gathering looks hooky as the story took so long to come out after the initial lies.

MAM was a great watch though my friend. It had me screaming at the TV, but then the good lady pointed out I was not hearing the full story and my research during nights of insomnia began.

We disagree, and if we are honest, there are only two people who know the truth about what really happened. It's just that I do not believe either of them.

I just love how polite you are:hug: I really do!
Thank you:blushing:

You know, as I was typing the 18 year thing I thought, " I better put in 12 or SOMEONE is going to call me out on it " lol..I was just to lazy to fix it. OOPS.

As far as LE, do you really believe LE anywhere aren't capable of planting evidence or framing someone to secure charges? It happens, often.

36 million IS motive. That money wasn't covered. Not even half. Not to mention the effects of losing millions would trickle down through the

city.( budget cuts, funding for programs,etc. ) I don't think EVERY officer was in on the frame job. I think some may have " looked the other way "
You REALLY think each and every piece of evidence in this case was just LENK & COLBORN, getting EXTREMELY LUCKY, after LOTSA searching? ( MULTIPLE searches in some instances ) C'mon now? lol The TWO men who weren't even supposed to BE THERE HELPING TO BEGIN WITH?? WHO WERE ABOUT TO BE INTERVIEWED AGAIN BECAUSE OF AVERY? ( Deposition )

And I notice you refer to the documentary, A LOT. I agree 100% TONS was left out of the documentary. What most folks fail to remember is the documentary wasn't meant to PROVE SA or BD guilty or ( gasp ) innocent. These were two filmmakers who made a documentary about the " system " These ladies also gave BOTH sides a chance to TALK and the STATE REFUSED.

Instead of referencing the MAM documentary, we could reference the actual reports, evidence,photos, or lack there of. Not directing it to YOU personally, at all. ( I honestly mean that )

Just thinking, MAM did it's job. It made people talk and take a good hard look at our system. Me personally, I never realized how many innocent men are in prison. I never knew how hard one had to fight to get out, even after innocence was proven.
Never knew how OFTEN coercion or false confessions happen.

And I tell ya what, I think now more than ever about what an UNBIASED JURY really means, how IMPORTANT it MUST be to have one.

FWIW, I HAVE let my mind go to " what if they DID do this " in multiple scenarios. I made myself. I kept coming back with too many unanswered questionable QUESTIONS..lol..
SO much does not add up. One can say " it's the last place she was seen alive "
Is it?? Can you PROVE it?? HOW? PROVE to me that Teresa Halbach was last seen alive at Steven Averys property. PROVE she did NOT drive OFF that property.

If Zellner has Cell info that shows she indeed did, leave Averys, then what?

If we look at the real reason the fraudulent documentary ( as one sleuther called it ) was made, I do believe it just may have served it's purpose

I apologize for the rambling, typos and screwy ( lack of ) grammar and this being all over the place. It's 415am and I am suffering from a severe case of WHAT THE HECK AM I STILL DOING AWAKEITIS

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

What do you mean by " the chances of it being a set up are off the scale? "

Hi Dexter75,
Given I do not buy a lawsuit against a State being reason enough to motivate a couple of individuals who would not have been held personally responsible into illegal activity, my point is straight forward.

If this was a set up, then it was poorly executed. There was no DNA found in Avery's trailer. We agree on that. Some see that as evidence that nothing happened there. Following the framing theory, if one had the capacity to plant evidence, would that not be the first place you spray some DNA? If it was not Avery that killed & burned Teresa, then whomever did, missed a trick.

Anyone that suggests the Police set this up, has to allow for the full potential to be played out.

If you had the chance to do so, you would make what gets found impossible to challenge. However, what was challenged, was Avery's blood found in Teresa's car. It could have been planted from a Vial. Really? MAM makes a real Hash of suggesting that because there was a hole in the rubber stopper, it showed signs that someone had tampered with it. Well actually, no that is quite normal. The hole in the rubber stopper is how the blood gets in there. I know, I give blood every six months.

But keep going for a second or two. One or two police officers, conspired to take that Vial, extract blood and smear it just where Avery could have touched the ignition with his finger, which he mysteriously cut on the day of Teresa going missing. (The day he also told Police he finished work at 11 am and lied about whether he spoke to her, or that he could have touched her car.)

Then there is the hood of the car. Why not spray some of Avery's blood there, instead of the DNA trace found on the latch? The battery was disconnected so why not put some incriminating blood or DNA there too? In fact, why not just spray the whole vehicle with his DNA?

The risk any Officer would be taking on his own or with a Counterpart, to frame someone, is huge. The chance they could be found out, is also sizeable. That people are suggesting the State, Prosecutors, LE & every other Tom, Dick & Harry might be in on it with them, is just not washing. Someone would have messed up, fessed up, or just got lax and the truth would have found a way out.

And planting the Key? I think this is a Red Herring. Teresa's car was found on the property and that was damning enough. Did LE plant the car? Again, it is a stretch of the imagination. They would have to have ensured they were not seen in a sprawling yard with several houses on it. The suggestion is that is was done at night (hence the headlight/ tail light story.) Really? Going onto a property at night with your lights on is one sure fire way to arouse suspicion.

It fits the narrative of the MAM programme makers to make this a possibility. However, the reality is that it discredits otherwise impeccable LE officers, relies on some gigantic conspiracy which if true, was poorly thought out, and sets up someone who was one of the final few people to see Teresa alive. Given that Avery & Dassey lied in their first interviews? I call B/S on the whole set up theory.

As a footnote I will add that I totally agree with the outrage people have with the way Dassey was handled. The four hours of taped interview do shed some light on what I believe to be his Guilt. However, I concede that he should have had legal representation, was at times confused and misled, even to the point of having been taken advantage of. Whilst I do not buy the low IQ argument as being a factor in his exploitation, it is clear that LE did exploit the fact that here was someone who knew something, but was following instructions from a hideously abusive Uncle.

Neither of us know what really happened which makes our debate have some level of conjecture. I would be happy to see an injustice corrected if there was one. It is just I cannot follow the narrative that Avery was framed. Following that & based upon all the evidence I had researched, I then conclude Dassey was guilty too.

Happy to continue the debate.

 

[Karinna]

I don't know if LE set SA up, but what if someone else that lived there and knew SA & BD very well did and they were actually the real perps.? Probably wouldn't be difficult to do seeing as they had access, IMO.

 

[Karinna]

Also wonder why GZ was never really investigated and TH was also meant to be there that day to take photos?
From court transcripts Strang says:
George Zipperer told, first, Corporal Lemieux and, then, Investigator Dedering, a series of lies about his own activities; about Jason's activities; about whether the Auto Trader photographer was a trespasser on the property. Threatened to have the dog eat anyone who would come on the property; wanting Teresa Halbach arrested even after being told that she was a missing person; denying that he had contacted Auto Trader or arranged for photographs of the car.

 

[dexter75]

Hi Dexter75,
Given I do not buy a lawsuit against a State being reason enough to motivate a couple of individuals who would not have been held personally responsible into illegal activity, my point is straight forward.

If this was a set up, then it was poorly executed. There was no DNA found in Avery's trailer. We agree on that. Some see that as evidence that nothing happened there. Following the framing theory, if one had the capacity to plant evidence, would that not be the first place you spray some DNA? If it was not Avery that killed & burned Teresa, then whomever did, missed a trick.

Anyone that suggests the Police set this up, has to allow for the full potential to be played out.

If you had the chance to do so, you would make what gets found impossible to challenge. However, what was challenged, was Avery's blood found in Teresa's car. It could have been planted from a Vial. Really? MAM makes a real Hash of suggesting that because there was a hole in the rubber stopper, it showed signs that someone had tampered with it. Well actually, no that is quite normal. The hole in the rubber stopper is how the blood gets in there. I know, I give blood every six months.

But keep going for a second or two. One or two police officers, conspired to take that Vial, extract blood and smear it just where Avery could have touched the ignition with his finger, which he mysteriously cut on the day of Teresa going missing. (The day he also told Police he finished work at 11 am and lied about whether he spoke to her, or that he could have touched her car.)

Then there is the hood of the car. Why not spray some of Avery's blood there, instead of the DNA trace found on the latch? The battery was disconnected so why not put some incriminating blood or DNA there too? In fact, why not just spray the whole vehicle with his DNA?

The risk any Officer would be taking on his own or with a Counterpart, to frame someone, is huge. The chance they could be found out, is also sizeable. That people are suggesting the State, Prosecutors, LE & every other Tom, Dick & Harry might be in on it with them, is just not washing. Someone would have messed up, fessed up, or just got lax and the truth would have found a way out.

And planting the Key? I think this is a Red Herring. Teresa's car was found on the property and that was damning enough. Did LE plant the car? Again, it is a stretch of the imagination. They would have to have ensured they were not seen in a sprawling yard with several houses on it. The suggestion is that is was done at night (hence the headlight/ tail light story.) Really? Going onto a property at night with your lights on is one sure fire way to arouse suspicion.

It fits the narrative of the MAM programme makers to make this a possibility. However, the reality is that it discredits otherwise impeccable LE officers, relies on some gigantic conspiracy which if true, was poorly thought out, and sets up someone who was one of the final few people to see Teresa alive. Given that Avery & Dassey lied in their first interviews? I call B/S on the whole set up theory.

As a footnote I will add that I totally agree with the outrage people have with the way Dassey was handled. The four hours of taped interview do shed some light on what I believe to be his Guilt. However, I concede that he should have had legal representation, was at times confused and misled, even to the point of having been taken advantage of. Whilst I do not buy the low IQ argument as being a factor in his exploitation, it is clear that LE did exploit the fact that here was someone who knew something, but was following instructions from a hideously abusive Uncle.

Neither of us know what really happened which makes our debate have some level of conjecture. I would be happy to see an injustice corrected if there was one. It is just I cannot follow the narrative that Avery was framed. Following that & based upon all the evidence I had researched, I then conclude Dassey was guilty too.

Happy to continue the debate.

Impeccable LE🙄 I wouldn't go that far dear😉

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[Limaes]

You have made my point for me. They worked with LE and Prosecutors the whole time, that is where they got their information from, they trusted them, as in most cases, we should trust them. I don't fault them for trusting them and what was being told to them.

Just like Penny believed for years that SA was the one that assaulted her.... just because she believed that for 18 years, didn't make it true.

Not sure how you can come to that conclusion considering you said they just took their "word" for it and I was talking about them knowing the "evidence". But anyhow, the Halbachs are not stupid people. They're quiet the opposite. To make the assumption, because that is all it is, that they're a mindless bunch that cannot think for themselves and lack integrity by allowing anyone but the true murderer to be sitting in prison, is astounding.

They lost their loved one in a horrific way. 10 years later it is dredged back up again by a couple of "film makers" who are severely lacking in morals resulting in total strangers messaging them through social media telling them how dumb they are and asking how they can sleep at night (yes, Avery certainly has some vile people supporting him).

Unlike the PB case, the Halbachs are not relying on the memory of what the perp looks like. They have an abundance of physical evidence to follow.

 

[dexter75]

Hi Dexter75,
Given I do not buy a lawsuit against a State being reason enough to motivate a couple of individuals who would not have been held personally responsible into illegal activity, my point is straight forward.

If this was a set up, then it was poorly executed. There was no DNA found in Avery's trailer. We agree on that. Some see that as evidence that nothing happened there. Following the framing theory, if one had the capacity to plant evidence, would that not be the first place you spray some DNA? If it was not Avery that killed & burned Teresa, then whomever did, missed a trick.

Anyone that suggests the Police set this up, has to allow for the full potential to be played out.

If you had the chance to do so, you would make what gets found impossible to challenge. However, what was challenged, was Avery's blood found in Teresa's car. It could have been planted from a Vial. Really? MAM makes a real Hash of suggesting that because there was a hole in the rubber stopper, it showed signs that someone had tampered with it. Well actually, no that is quite normal. The hole in the rubber stopper is how the blood gets in there. I know, I give blood every six months.

But keep going for a second or two. One or two police officers, conspired to take that Vial, extract blood and smear it just where Avery could have touched the ignition with his finger, which he mysteriously cut on the day of Teresa going missing. (The day he also told Police he finished work at 11 am and lied about whether he spoke to her, or that he could have touched her car.)

Then there is the hood of the car. Why not spray some of Avery's blood there, instead of the DNA trace found on the latch? The battery was disconnected so why not put some incriminating blood or DNA there too? In fact, why not just spray the whole vehicle with his DNA?

The risk any Officer would be taking on his own or with a Counterpart, to frame someone, is huge. The chance they could be found out, is also sizeable. That people are suggesting the State, Prosecutors, LE & every other Tom, Dick & Harry might be in on it with them, is just not washing. Someone would have messed up, fessed up, or just got lax and the truth would have found a way out.

And planting the Key? I think this is a Red Herring. Teresa's car was found on the property and that was damning enough. Did LE plant the car? Again, it is a stretch of the imagination. They would have to have ensured they were not seen in a sprawling yard with several houses on it. The suggestion is that is was done at night (hence the headlight/ tail light story.) Really? Going onto a property at night with your lights on is one sure fire way to arouse suspicion.

It fits the narrative of the MAM programme makers to make this a possibility. However, the reality is that it discredits otherwise impeccable LE officers, relies on some gigantic conspiracy which if true, was poorly thought out, and sets up someone who was one of the final few people to see Teresa alive. Given that Avery & Dassey lied in their first interviews? I call B/S on the whole set up theory.

As a footnote I will add that I totally agree with the outrage people have with the way Dassey was handled. The four hours of taped interview do shed some light on what I believe to be his Guilt. However, I concede that he should have had legal representation, was at times confused and misled, even to the point of having been taken advantage of. Whilst I do not buy the low IQ argument as being a factor in his exploitation, it is clear that LE did exploit the fact that here was someone who knew something, but was following instructions from a hideously abusive Uncle.

Neither of us know what really happened which makes our debate have some level of conjecture. I would be happy to see an injustice corrected if there was one. It is just I cannot follow the narrative that Avery was framed. Following that & based upon all the evidence I had researched, I then conclude Dassey was guilty too.

Happy to continue the debate.

Read this twice, to be sure I understood your points.

I do hope you understand when I say the framing did not have to be played out perfectly because I do not believe certain leo's honestly could believe their ( pardon me here ) " luck " when they found poor Teresa😔

The ones that did the frame job, did a terrible job, I agree with you once again.
The framers had no clue how it was all going to " work " until they were smack dab in the middle of it all.
Step by ridiculous step, they began.
They weren't thinking about what to do next. They sure as heck weren't thinking it was going to be examined under a microscope in 10 years now, we're they?
Let's look at something else, shall we?

What do you make of the

" place Teresa in Averys garage " note?
You know, the one Kratz wrote to Culhane..

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[Hoosen_Fenger]

Hi Dexter75,
I have sent you a PM to apologise for taking too long to respond to your earlier message.

I'm going to use your post, and then add my comments in Bold if that is ok.

I just love how polite you are:hug: I really do!
Thank you:blushing:

You know, as I was typing the 18 year thing I thought, " I better put in 12 or SOMEONE is going to call me out on it " lol..I was just to lazy to fix it. OOPS. No worries. No one is as lazy as me

As far as LE, do you really believe LE anywhere aren't capable of planting evidence or framing someone to secure charges? It happens, often. I agree that it could happen and I agree that LE have the capability to do so. However, I place my trust in their ability to do the right thing, most of the time. If they did something hooky this time, they actually did a poor job, it could have been more convincing.

36 million IS motive. That money wasn't covered. Not even half. Not to mention the effects of losing millions would trickle down through the

city.( budget cuts, funding for programs,etc. ) I don't think EVERY officer was in on the frame job. I think some may have " looked the other way " Lenk & Colborn were not accused of anything. The law suit was not going to nail them for anything. Incompetence perhaps, but the detail around the new DNA being discovered is not clear. MAM has an advantage here because of the lack of clarity on the process.
You REALLY think each and every piece of evidence in this case was just LENK & COLBORN, getting EXTREMELY LUCKY, after LOTSA searching? ( MULTIPLE searches in some instances ) C'mon now? lol The TWO men who weren't even supposed to BE THERE HELPING TO BEGIN WITH?? WHO WERE ABOUT TO BE INTERVIEWED AGAIN BECAUSE OF AVERY? ( Deposition ) I think that we are looking at this with two abilities. The benefit of hindsight and the knowledge that processes & techniques are now far better. (Actually, I have read those sentiences back and they are not very good, but I guess you know what I mean. )

And I notice you refer to the documentary, A LOT. I agree 100% TONS was left out of the documentary. What most folks fail to remember is the documentary wasn't meant to PROVE SA or BD guilty or ( gasp ) innocent. These were two filmmakers who made a documentary about the " system " These ladies also gave BOTH sides a chance to TALK and the STATE REFUSED. The State did refuse. I agree. But then, they would, wouldn't they? Where is the need to challenge their own narrative? I think lot's is made out of this apparent 'Omission' from the series. It is poorly made in my opinion and the claim the State refused to participate, is a good example of the bias in the show.

Instead of referencing the MAM documentary, we could reference the actual reports, evidence,photos, or lack there of. Not directing it to YOU personally, at all. ( I honestly mean that )

Just thinking, MAM did it's job. It made people talk and take a good hard look at our system. Me personally, I never realized how many innocent men are in prison. I never knew how hard one had to fight to get out, even after innocence was proven.
Never knew how OFTEN coercion or false confessions happen. I totally agree that coercion takes place. I live in the UK and our Justice system is just as flawed as the one in the US. MAM did its job is a telling comment my friend. It's design was to provoke and it worked.

And I tell ya what, I think now more than ever about what an UNBIASED JURY really means, how IMPORTANT it MUST be to have one. Totally agree. Some Juries should not be allowed to judge Britains Got Talent!

FWIW, I HAVE let my mind go to " what if they DID do this " in multiple scenarios. I made myself. I kept coming back with too many unanswered questionable QUESTIONS..lol..
SO much does not add up. One can say " it's the last place she was seen alive "
Is it?? Can you PROVE it?? HOW? PROVE to me that Teresa Halbach was last seen alive at Steven Averys property. PROVE she did NOT drive OFF that property. No one can prove anything. But we have to run with the knowledge we have. Unfortunately, that knowledge is not good for anyone living on Avery's Salvage Yard.

If Zellner has Cell info that shows she indeed did, leave Averys, then what? I am disgusted by the way Zellner has conducted her campaign. If this evidence she says she had (back in February by the way) is true, Avery would be out now. I fear she is cashing in. I stand to be corrected and will return to this forum if proved wrong to apologise, but in my opinion, there is no new evidence and Avery will remain behind bars.

If we look at the real reason the fraudulent documentary ( as one sleuther called it ) was made, I do believe it just may have served it's purpose Totally agree. Here are two strangers discussing it. Rationally

I apologize for the rambling, typos and screwy ( lack of ) grammar and this being all over the place. It's 415am and I am suffering from a severe case of WHAT THE HECK AM I STILL DOING AWAKEITIS

No apologies required. You know? It is really important that people are discussing things like this, as alluded to above. Everything is not Black & White and if I handed one Mantra down to my kids that they remember? It would be: CHALLENGE EVERYTHING!

I apologise for the use of capitals there, but it is an important point. People are challenging the convictions of Avery & Dassey, and they are correct to do so. However, despite the challenge, I think the correct outcome was borne out.