But as it stands at this moment, he (Lee) is 100 percent behind his sister

[Leila]

Re: Bolded By Me

I may be remembering incorrectly, it has been a couple years now, but wasn't there a plea deal on the table before Caylee's body was found? I though the SA offered a plea that expired early in the case. IIRC....

Yes! It was back in the very beginning. IIRC it was in August or early September of 2008. There was a three-week time limit. The state offered a plea deal, and although I don't remember the details right now, it was a set sentence (something like 10 - 15 years) in exchange for a confession and guilty plea.

Jose Baez reacted by saying the idea was nonsense as his client was innocent. He let the deadline for the plea deal pass without further acknowledgment. I remember a reporter catching up to him a day or two after the deadline passed asking him about it and he said something like he never intended to respond to it as his client was innocent.

 

[Leila]

Yep, here's what you're remembering: http://www.wftv.com/download/2008/0829/17335521.pdf

The state offered Casey limited use immunity if she would assist in finding Caylee.

I think use immunity means that the state would not use her words against her at trial if she provided the information. They never offered her a plea deal such as we will give you a lighter sentence if you confess though.

I could be wrong, but I remember a plea deal in which there was a lighter sentence for a guilty plea. :waitasec:

 

[pip]

Casey could never reveal the truth because she duct taped Caylee's airways. You don't accidentally duct tape someone's face. She was going with the odds that her body would never be found. Legally, premeditation can happen in seconds and it takes a lot longer than seconds to duct tape someone's mouth/nose and smother them to death. I hope the SAs do a demonstration for the jury---- have complete silence for the time it takes to pull three long pieces of duct tape off a roll then put them on something (perhaps a baby doll), then wait the normal range of time it takes to smother someone. Caylee didn't just lay there and go to sleep, she was tortured.

We had a poster here a while back who had her mouth duct taped by an intruder. I'll never forget her post--about how the glue on the tape burned her throat, how she struggled using her tongue in order to get the tiniest bit of air in order to breath (she is a real hero, I hope she still reads here and reads this post, I'll never forget your story of courage).

Back to Casey, I think we can safely assume Casey didn't carry duct tape in her pocket so it would have taken time to get it. She could have stopped before she put the first piece on. She could have stopped before the 2nd piece, or the 3rd. She did not. She could have pulled or cut all three pieces off before Cayee died but she didn't (even if it was just enough to allow her to breath and therefore live). She coldly and methodically with premeditation killed her. It doesn't get any worse than that.

15-20 years to someone like Casey (heck to anyone) is a life time, especially to someone whose entire life revolves around her looks. She will be ~43 when she gets out if she gets 20 years (and that's if she serves all 20 years, doubtful). She would most likely still be able to have children. If Casey would have been offered a sweetheart deal to get out in 1-2 years she would have sung like a canary. Casey is all about Casey and no one else. Casey has been over the top cocky since the beginning. I really believe she thinks she's going to walk out of the courthouse after the trial a free woman, limo waiting, deals brokered for movies, books, etc.

I'm in the minority. I think Casey has no shame, none, nadda, zip. She stole from her grandparents knowing she would get caught. She emptied Amy's bank account knowing she would get caught. She even wiped out Caylee's piggy bank. She lied every day of her life to everyone. She cursed her mother loudly in front of neighbors. She showed up at a wedding clearly pregnant but denied it. I won't even get into the bed hopping with men. She cares about herself and everyone else better stay out of her way. She was still grinning from ear to ear when she got arrested for child endangerment (or whatever the first charge was). That didn't even phase her. Most mothers would have crumpled up in a heap of tears but not Casey, she was happy as a clam. She got to get her picture taken. Wahoo...picture time.

Casey chose the possibility of LWOP or death when she killed Caylee. She has the same trait as the rest of the As. They're all arrogant and stupid which is a great combination for prosecutors. The prosecutors are simply doing their jobs. The jury will decide Casey's fate, not Casey. FWIW I still think Casey thinks she's going to walk out of there a free woman after trial and become a celebrity.

IMO

I think the whole family is shame driven...with a severe absence of mature guilt. I think there is a big difference between the two. Even psychopaths can be ashamed, but feel a total absence of guilt for a horrendous act. I processed a guy the other night on a 290 violation (sexual offender, failed to register). He was too embarrassed to say what his violation was, but I guarantee you he'd do it again tomorrow if released. I see this reaction all the time.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Casey could never reveal the truth because she duct taped Caylee's airways. You don't accidentally duct tape someone's face. She was going with the odds that her body would never be found. Legally, premeditation can happen in seconds and it takes a lot longer than seconds to duct tape someone's mouth/nose and smother them to death. I hope the SAs do a demonstration for the jury---- have complete silence for the time it takes to pull three long pieces of duct tape off a roll then put them on something (perhaps a baby doll), then wait the normal range of time it takes to smother someone. Caylee didn't just lay there and go to sleep, she was tortured.

We had a poster here a while back who had her mouth duct taped by an intruder. I'll never forget her post--about how the glue on the tape burned her throat, how she struggled using her tongue in order to get the tiniest bit of air in order to breath (she is a real hero, I hope she still reads here and reads this post, I'll never forget your story of courage).

Back to Casey, I think we can safely assume Casey didn't carry duct tape in her pocket so it would have taken time to get it. She could have stopped before she put the first piece on. She could have stopped before the 2nd piece, or the 3rd. She did not. She could have pulled or cut all three pieces off before Cayee died but she didn't (even if it was just enough to allow her to breath and therefore live). She coldly and methodically with premeditation killed her. It doesn't get any worse than that.

15-20 years to someone like Casey (heck to anyone) is a life time, especially to someone whose entire life revolves around her looks. She will be ~43 when she gets out if she gets 20 years (and that's if she serves all 20 years, doubtful). She would most likely still be able to have children. If Casey would have been offered a sweetheart deal to get out in 1-2 years she would have sung like a canary. Casey is all about Casey and no one else. Casey has been over the top cocky since the beginning. I really believe she thinks she's going to walk out of the courthouse after the trial a free woman, limo waiting, deals brokered for movies, books, etc.

I'm in the minority. I think Casey has no shame, none, nadda, zip. She stole from her grandparents knowing she would get caught. She emptied Amy's bank account knowing she would get caught. She even wiped out Caylee's piggy bank. She lied every day of her life to everyone. She cursed her mother loudly in front of neighbors. She showed up at a wedding clearly pregnant but denied it. I won't even get into the bed hopping with men. She cares about herself and everyone else better stay out of her way. She was still grinning from ear to ear when she got arrested for child endangerment (or whatever the first charge was). That didn't even phase her. Most mothers would have crumpled up in a heap of tears but not Casey, she was happy as a clam. She got to get her picture taken. Wahoo...picture time.

Casey chose the possibility of LWOP or death when she killed Caylee. She has the same trait as the rest of the As. They're all arrogant and stupid which is a great combination for prosecutors. The prosecutors are simply doing their jobs. The jury will decide Casey's fate, not Casey. FWIW I still think Casey thinks she's going to walk out of there a free woman after trial and become a celebrity.

IMO

First off, this is a great post! Second- havin' grown up in a home much like the Anthony's, with a mother who could be Cindy's twin, I'd like to share my thoughts on these behaviors..

When you live like that- when you are denied the chance to become your own person (because of the learned helplessness), when you are never taught responsibility and have never had to face the consequences of your own actions, when you are emotionally abused.. you build this front starting from a young age. You realize pretty quickly that the people who claim to "love" you only love the illusion they have created and not you at all. You learn to shut yourself off, for your own protection. You trust nobody, because every person you have ever loved has hurt you and shown you your feelings do not matter. So you stop feeling. You know how to feel- you just don't let yourself. After being that way for so many years it's difficult to remember how to feel.. you lost yourself in the process of protecting yourself. The ability to feel is there it's just not an easy process to get it back especially if you are still living with the abuse because you have to continue to protect yourself. And the men? They accept you for who you are, they are the only ones who do. Sure it's not real acceptance, but in your damaged mind it feels like it is.

 

[seagull65]

Maybe Lee supports her 100% because he knows more then anyone possibly could who is looking in from the outside, so to speak. jmo

Maybe, but if that's the case maybe he should to spill the truth instead of letting his sister sit in jail for almost 2 years.

he might know (or feel very sure) that Casey would never harm Caylee, but at the same time not have any knowledge of who did harm Caylee.

Even Casey might not know.

 

[seagull65]

he may forgive the molestation claims because he knows she has a problem where she says things she doesn't mean just to go along with others (i.e. can't help it), or because he thinks her defense team have made her take that route.

All the old friends and family seemed to know that she has some kind of problem where she says stuff just to agree with or go along with others, almost like she can't help it or doesn't realize she's doing it. They all seemed forgiving of it. In that recent TV interview GA and CA said they didn't know why she would have written the molestation stuff, they said someone had suggested to them maybe she wrote those things to show support or understanding to the jailmate and they thought maybe that was the case. They seemed forgiving of it.

 

[seagull65]

Oh yes there's another one...I recall one of the interviews after the indictment came down and she was in the room with the agent after being taken into custody. She was on a fishing expedition and LE knew it. She kept referring to Caylee is still alive whether you have a "bucket load" of evidence downstairs or nothing at all... That to me was big too!!! That screamed tell me what you have!!!

We could probably start an entire thread of things or statements Casey has made/done to imply that she is guilty.

I do think she was trying to find out why they kept saying they were sure that Caylee was dead, i.e. had something actually been found indicating she was dead? That doesn't necessarily mean she was guilty. If she is innocent, she was probably, like the rest of her family, worried and angry that LE didn't appear to be searching for Caylee as a live/missing child. They kept telling her they believed Caylee was dead, of course she would want to know why they were saying that, had they found something? But because of her difficulty facing things directly, her tendency for denial, she probes indirectly and prefaces it with "I know she's alive regardless how much evidence you may have" etc. I think she has a tendency to use self-comforting language like that IMO.

When I was watching that clip, I could see it both ways, either that she's guilty and was fishing to find out how much they knew, or she's innocent and was trying to find out if there was really evidence that Caylee was dead. MOO

 

[Baznme]

I think they can put the DP on and off the table at any time as more evidence comes to light. Ashton said there was no phantom plea and I believe him.

Casey was never in control of whether or not she got the DP. She certainly couldn't claim accident then take them to a duct taped child's remains. The SAs office never said, "take us to the body and we won't go for the DP." She never had the chance at a lighter sentence that I can recall because a plea was never offered.

When did Casey have the opportunity for a lighter sentence? They had the DP on the table, a lawyer wrote a cry me a river letter and they dropped it, then they found the body and it was back on.

BBM in red-What is this 'opportunity' that Casey missed you keep mentioning?

During the time the DP WAS NOT on the table would have been her opportunity HOWEVER it was taken off makes no difference. Legally, she would have had the opportunity.

 

[jon_burrows]

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Thanks just wasn't enough, jon. What a fantastic post. Like you were reading my mind....


The poster you refer to does still read and post here. (Not comfortable posting her screen name, I'll leave that up to her.) Her story of courage is something I will never forget either. Occasionaly she chimed in on the duct tape thread when we were actively sleuthing the 4 pieces found. Her input was so valuable in helping us understand certain things. btw, I don't know the last time you read that thread, but I am linking the latter portion here. We theorized heavily about the 4th piece found away from the remains - that the 4th piece found (Q104) was used to bind her hands. Since we posted our opinions/theories, something was later released that indicated the SA was theorizing the same.

Thank you.

I learned so much from the poster and will always be grateful she shared her story. If she agreed (only if she agreed) and it was admissible, I wish the prosecution would call her as a witness to tell what it's like to be duct taped over the face. It really hit home how truly heinous this crime was when she described what it felt like. She could be Caylee's voice since Caylee is no longer here to tell of the horrors her mother put her through.

I completely forgot about the fourth piece of duct tape. I just went back and read part of the thread you provided. Binding Caylee's hands seems to be the most logical conclusion and provides more credence to premeditation. It shows more planning and time was spent on the actual crime which means Casey had more time to reflect and stop before she killed her.

IMO

 

[jon_burrows]

Yep, here's what you're remembering: http://www.wftv.com/download/2008/0829/17335521.pdf

The state offered Casey limited use immunity if she would assist in finding Caylee.

I think use immunity means that the state would not use her words against her at trial if she provided the information. They never offered her a plea deal such as we will give you a lighter sentence if you confess though.

I think the media mislead people into thinking she was offered a plea deal.

I just looked at the email again regarding 'use immunity'. It specifically stated, "However, we would require your client to waive, in writing, derivative use of any evidence obtained as a result."

My take on the email was they could use any and all evidence they found with the body and surrounding area. There was no talk at all about a reduced sentence.

IMO

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

he may forgive the molestation claims because he knows she has a problem where she says things she doesn't mean just to go along with others (i.e. can't help it), or because he thinks her defense team have made her take that route.

All the old friends and family seemed to know that she has some kind of problem where she says stuff just to agree with or go along with others, almost like she can't help it or doesn't realize she's doing it. They all seemed forgiving of it. In that recent TV interview GA and CA said they didn't know why she would have written the molestation stuff, they said someone had suggested to them maybe she wrote those things to show support or understanding to the jailmate and they thought maybe that was the case. They seemed forgiving of it.

How is this any different than just saying Casey lied? I don't excuse Casey for any of her lies even if her family did. I don't understand what the intent is here. . . George did say he was told that Casey said this only to "console" another inmate. But how do you think that makes it more acceptable? Or did I misunderstand the point of your post?

 

[LambChop]

How is this any different than just saying Casey lied? I don't excuse Casey for any of her lies even if her family did. I don't understand what the intent is here. . . George did say he was told that Casey said this only to "console" another inmate. But how do you think that makes it more acceptable? Or did I misunderstand the point of your post?

Plus KC told JG a similar story.

 

[justthinkin]

George did say he was told that Casey said this only to "console" another inmate.

I don't even believe that. Nope, the defense team and Cindy had a good talking to George, and he was probably accused of sinking the Good Ship Casey.

 

[Leila]

Plus KC told JG a similar story.

Yes she did! She seems to use the "I was molested" lie as a means to get sympathy. If it is a lie, George should be very angry with Casey and he's got every right to that anger. If it's a lie, and Cindy knows it's a lie, she should be angry and defending her husband. This family has no sense of right and wrong whatsoever!

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I do think she was trying to find out why they kept saying they were sure that Caylee was dead, i.e. had something actually been found indicating she was dead? That doesn't necessarily mean she was guilty. If she is innocent, she was probably, like the rest of her family, worried and angry that LE didn't appear to be searching for Caylee as a live/missing child. They kept telling her they believed Caylee was dead, of course she would want to know why they were saying that, had they found something? But because of her difficulty facing things directly, her tendency for denial, she probes indirectly and prefaces it with "I know she's alive regardless how much evidence you may have" etc. I think she has a tendency to use self-comforting language like that IMO.

When I was watching that clip, I could see it both ways, either that she's guilty and was fishing to find out how much they knew, or she's innocent and was trying to find out if there was really evidence that Caylee was dead. MOO

Huh? If she was worried about them finding a "live Caylee" she would have told them where she last saw Caylee. We have to keep in mind that to this day, ICA has never told the truth about the last time she saw Caylee.

She didn't drop her off at Sawgrass, no one lived there.

She didn't get beat up by Zani and have Caylee stolen to teach her a lesson. We know Zani doesn't exist.

So...if she's worried about finding Caylee alive, she would have told the truth about where she last saw her in order to help LE. She did not help them, she did everything possible to hinder them.

No evidence points to anyone but ICA and there is plenty tying Caylee's body to Casey and the Anthony home.

She wanted LE and the thousands of people looking for Caylee (unlike anyone in the Anthony family) to be searching areas other than where her body was. You don't look for live kids in the woods where Caylee was found. And of course, LE was 100% correct and the Anthonys were 100% wrong/lying.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I don't even believe that. Nope, the defense team and Cindy had a good talking to George, and he was probably accused of sinking the Good Ship Casey.

Does anyone on this planet think Casey would concern herself with "consoling" someone?? What a joke. She treats everyone in her life like garbage, whether it's her close family, her grandparents or friends she ripped off, the boyfriends she cheated on, or any other of her victims.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Thank you so very much. Unfortunately my one sister did not fare as well. It seems that not everyone will live through tragic upbringings and have the same result in life. Not everyone will have the life skills necessary to cope in the same way. Sometimes when you are raised a certain way it is life as you know it and it seems normal to you. Although the world around you is shaking their heads ya know? It is all that you know.

I do not see LA making an adult choice. I cannot say that he will not be Caylee's hero yet until I see if he will testify for the prosecution and what he will or will not say. Things may have changed. Regardless he has still suffered a horrible loss and tragedy. No two people are alike in dealing and coping mechanisms.

Call me a softie, but yes I do believe that LA has lied in the past. But at this time I have a feeling that he may have changed his mind in regards to Casey. I just don't know until we get closer to trial. Inevitably he will either show or not and that will say alot. Whether or not he testifies and what he says will also answer the question.

What makes you think he has changed his mind? He said "I love you" in the last hearing for heaven's sake.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Does anyone on this planet think Casey would concern herself with "consoling" someone?? What a joke. She treats everyone in her life like garbage, whether it's her close family, her grandparents or friends she ripped off, the boyfriends she cheated on, or any other of her victims.

Well yes, Horace, I can see Casey making up a lie to console someone if she thought it would be to her advantage in that relationship. But it doesn't make it any less of a lie! I can totally see her doing this to try to win a friend's intimacy of shared confidences. She is a phony baloney who tries to impress only the person she is with at the moment. She's just not smart or wise enough to realize that all lies are eventually exposed.

And you are right. She does it with everyone. I only wish I could have been in JB's mind when he first realized this fact. It would be very interesting to know the exact point in time that JB realized the fullness of her lies. Would or could we see a shift in the defense strategy at this revelation? Did she ever come clean with him at all or did he just have to finally be defeated by all the facts?

Who believes that JB thinks that Casey is not guilty (please notice that I did not say innocent)? (That might be a good new thread with a poll.)

 

[wildchild1961]

he may forgive the molestation claims because he knows she has a problem where she says things she doesn't mean just to go along with others (i.e. can't help it), or because he thinks her defense team have made her take that route.

All the old friends and family seemed to know that she has some kind of problem where she says stuff just to agree with or go along with others, almost like she can't help it or doesn't realize she's doing it. They all seemed forgiving of it. In that recent TV interview GA and CA said they didn't know why she would have written the molestation stuff, they said someone had suggested to them maybe she wrote those things to show support or understanding to the jailmate and they thought maybe that was the case. They seemed forgiving of it.

ummm.. might want to go back and rewatch the videos with Lee and Tony in the car. Lee specifically states that KC is just like their father in that when she lies.. she either does it for no apparent reason, or to set herself up for an even bigger lie, OR to better herself. He never once mentioned it is to go along with folks.

Of course they are forgiving of it.. after all.. its not the first time KC has lied about them, not the second time, not the third time.. and it certainly won't be the last. It's just what KC does to those she knows and they are well aware of that and continually allow her to do it for whatever effed up reasons they have justified for it. Makes ya wonder though, how many times someone has to sling a bucketfull of sludge your way.. before you clue in and start ducking or else move out of the path.
wild

 

[wildchild1961]

Well yes, Horace, I can see Casey making up a lie to console someone if she thought it would be to her advantage in that relationship. But it doesn't make it any less of a lie! I can totally see her doing this to try to win a friend's intimacy of shared confidences. She is a phony baloney who tries to impress only the person she is with at the moment. She's just not smart or wise enough to realize that all lies are eventually exposed.

And you are right. She does it with everyone. I only wish I could have been in JB's mind when he first realized this fact. It would be very interesting to know the exact point in time that JB realized the fullness of her lies. Would or could we see a shift in the defense strategy at this revelation? Did she ever come clean with him at all or did he just have to finally be defeated by all the facts?

Who believes that JB thinks that Casey is not guilty (please notice that I did not say innocent)? (That might be a good new thread with a poll.)

Let's not forget that this is the exact same KC that consoled Amy when when Amy was missing money. KC was all love and light and comfort in the words she said to Amy, even to the point of offering to come over and help Amy look for the missing money that KC had STOLEN from her.

So for sure, Expecting Unicorns.. KC goes way out of her way to console someone she has screwed over, without giving herself away of course.

grrrrrrrrr The more I post about this idiot.. the more those around her still supporting her frustrate the heck outa me. I just want to smack em... how stupid can you be and how badly can you enable someone to the point they grow up so completely messed up? Let her stand on what she has said and done and stop making every silly dang excuse for her lying, stealing and hurting people. Bottom line is.. she lies, steals and hurts people.

wild