But as it stands at this moment, he (Lee) is 100 percent behind his sister

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BBM Just curious...if the SAs prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt that Casey either restrained or drugged Caylee then duct taped her mouth/nose so she couldn't breath then waited for nature to take its course, what's a reasonable verdict for the torture and death of a two year old?

Yours and my definition are most probably different that what is historically handed down for a confession to a crime of this kind in this State.

I do believe the SA's are going to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt and I do believe she may get the ultimate punishment as a result of the evidence and her denial of all responsibility.
 
Yours and my definition are most probably different that what is historically handed down for a confession to a crime of this kind in this State.

I do believe the SA's are going to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt and I do believe she may get the ultimate punishment as a result of the evidence and her denial of all responsibility.

I'm confused. Are you saying if she confessed to smothering Caylee to death (just as Ashton described) then she should get a lighter sentence? If so, how light? 15 years? 20 years? 5 years?
 
I'm confused. Are you saying if she confessed to smothering Caylee to death (just as Ashton described) then she should get a lighter sentence? If so, how light? 15 years? 20 years? 5 years?

What I am saying is this. There was an opportunity at one time when the DP was off the table. She had plenty of time to admit to WHATEVER happened as long as they found out whether or not she contributed to the death of her child. That didn't happen, soooooo the DP went back on the table and she is playing this out to the bitter end, as we know. She already had the opportunity for a lighter sentence which was "not the DP" and she blew it. If she had taken the opportunity, obviously her sentence would have been anything other than death. 15 yrs. 20 yrs. Life? Who knows. It doesn't matter what I think. It's what has historically already taken place.
 
I think if KC would have said it was an 'accident' (which I do not believe at ALL) or even that she lost her temper and caused her death in a moment of rage (which I DO believe), she may have caught 15-20 yrs. KC cannot tell the truth, she refuses to admit she did it...to the bitter end. Cindy has the same personality trait. The shame to the family is too great, and to this family, the image of perfection means everything. The truth will never be told by any of them. KC will take it to her grave.
She chose the possibility of life in prison or even death rather than shamefully marring self and family image of 'perfection'. Now that's pathological indoctrination.
 
I think if KC would have said it was an 'accident' (which I do not believe at ALL) or even that she lost her temper and caused her death in a moment of rage (which I DO believe), she may have caught 15-20 yrs. KC cannot tell the truth, she refuses to admit she did it...to the bitter end. Cindy has the same personality trait. The shame to the family is too great, and to this family, the image of perfection means everything. The truth will never be told by any of them. KC will take it to her grave.
She chose the possibility of life in prison or even death rather than shamefully marring self and family image of 'perfection'. Now that's pathological indoctrination.



RBBM- Now that is a very POWERFUL statement, I have never heard it said that way and I couldn't agree more! With your permission, I will be using that phrase in the future... very, very powerful!
 
[/B]
RBBM- Now that is a very POWERFUL statement, I have never heard it said that way and I couldn't agree more! With your permission, I will be using that phrase in the future... very, very powerful!
I really see this family unit as it's own 'cult', rather than a clan. There is a very strong us vs. them theme and their belief system is at complete odds with the mainstream. I believe they have worked very hard for many years as a unit to maintain the 'protective shell', which portrays perfection, which causes me to believe this family must have many secrets. I believe Cindy is the Anthony 'cult' leader, so to speak, and has been doing everything she can to maintain control of the family, to keep the 'protective shell' intact, even if it means turning her back on Caylee.
I always wondered what KC meant by 'don't worry, I haven't told them anything', when telling Cindy she had to talk to the Psychologist.
There is alot we don't know about the Anthony's.

"My brother molested me." KC
Lee's response? "I love you."

Does not compute.
 
I really see this family unit as it's own 'cult', rather than a clan. There is a very strong us vs. them theme and their belief system is at complete odds with the mainstream. I believe they have worked very hard for many years as a unit to maintain the 'protective shell', which portrays perfection, which causes me to believe this family must have many secrets. I believe Cindy is the Anthony 'cult' leader, so to speak, and has been doing everything she can to maintain control of the family, to keep the 'protective shell' intact, even if it means turning her back on Caylee.
I always wondered what KC meant by 'don't worry, I haven't told them anything', when telling Cindy she had to talk to the Psychologist.
There is alot we don't know about the Anthony's.

"My brother molested me." KC
Lee's response? "I love you."

Does not compute.

ITA and I think the members of that "family" have a sort of "Stockholm Syndrome". They are not united, they are hostages!
 
ITA and I think the members of that "family" have a sort of "Stockholm Syndrome". They are not united, they are hostages!

ITA. I think KC and LEE were 'indoctrinated' as they grew up and are clinging steadfast to their belief system. I also think KC was distrupting the contained system and bucking to get out....which caused Cindy enough distress to seek counseling. I think Cindy quit the counseling because she would not divulge the real source of her stress---> Lack of control. You can't get much work done in therapy if you can't be honest. She wanted help as to how to regain control over KC, imo.. and the counselor told her to boot her out. The End. She didn't like that counselor.
 
ITA. I think KC and LEE were 'indoctrinated' as they grew up and are clinging steadfast to their belief system. I also think KC was distrupting the contained system and bucking to get out....which caused Cindy enough distress to seek counseling. I think Cindy quit the counseling because she would not divulge the real source of her stress---> Lack of control. You can't get much work done in therapy if you can't be honest. She wanted help as to how to regain control over KC, imo.. and the counselor told her to boot her out. The End. She didn't like that counselor.
yes, THIS.

Lee perplexes me. And that "CMA" business at the funeral, omg, what was he thinking? or who did he think he was fooling? Some of things he said were not things you'd say to, or about, a deceased, (murdered) two year old.

Also, even tho I believe Caylee's death was at KC's actual hands, I think Cindy's controlling is what caused the death to happen.

Also, I cant wrap my head around the parents not ever trying to call KC, "at work" or having a phone number for, "the nanny." wow

And another thing that struckk me as so weird (among many many things already listed) is that in her description of zanny, she made her, "a 10." That's just odd

moo
 
What I am saying is this. There was an opportunity at one time when the DP was off the table. She had plenty of time to admit to WHATEVER happened as long as they found out whether or not she contributed to the death of her child. That didn't happen, soooooo the DP went back on the table and she is playing this out to the bitter end, as we know. She already had the opportunity for a lighter sentence which was "not the DP" and she blew it. If she had taken the opportunity, obviously her sentence would have been anything other than death. 15 yrs. 20 yrs. Life? Who knows. It doesn't matter what I think. It's what has historically already taken place.

I think they can put the DP on and off the table at any time as more evidence comes to light. Ashton said there was no phantom plea and I believe him.

Casey was never in control of whether or not she got the DP. She certainly couldn't claim accident then take them to a duct taped child's remains. The SAs office never said, "take us to the body and we won't go for the DP." She never had the chance at a lighter sentence that I can recall because a plea was never offered.

When did Casey have the opportunity for a lighter sentence? They had the DP on the table, a lawyer wrote a cry me a river letter and they dropped it, then they found the body and it was back on.

BBM in red-What is this 'opportunity' that Casey missed you keep mentioning?
 
The only opportunity 'missed' that I see, was to fess up from the get go to 'some degree' of responsibility and take lesser charges.
 
I have a branch of my family that parallels the Anthonys so closely it's scary. Aunt just like Cindy, Uncle just like George, a boy and a girl in their 20's who in their character are so much like Lee and KC. They are considered the 'freaks' of the family, yet they are unaware of it. Their whole family and personal lives are covered in a such thick faccade..and they think no one has seen through it. They have worked double time trying to portray the 'perfect all-american family' for years....ever since I can remember. Yet, those in the closest positions to the family have figured out much of the true inner-workings and truths, and let me tell ya..it ain't pretty. Front and center in their Catholic Church every Sunday..and NO ONE would ever guess. It's weird too how none of us have ever called them out on the lies and truths we know.. I think it's because we all see how they so fiercly they cling to the faccade they have created and they would turn blood thirsty if you ever tried pulling the wall down. So, we avoid them.
Every family has secrets and practices some level of non-disclosure, which is normal. But for the Anthony's, like my relatives, it has gone pathological.
 
yes, THIS.

Lee perplexes me. And that "CMA" business at the funeral, omg, what was he thinking? or who did he think he was fooling? Some of things he said were not things you'd say to, or about, a deceased, (murdered) two year old.

Also, even tho I believe Caylee's death was at KC's actual hands, I think Cindy's controlling is what caused the death to happen.

Also, I cant wrap my head around the parents not ever trying to call KC, "at work" or having a phone number for, "the nanny." wow

And another thing that struckk me as so weird (among many many things already listed) is that in her description of zanny, she made her, "a 10." That's just odd

moo
Yeah, see what I mean about 'cult-ish'? The "CMA" nonsense and all the speaking in family codes borders loosely on the Mansonesque type of 'family'. They are a team in all the diabolical lies and nonsense.
 
I think they can put the DP on and off the table at any time as more evidence comes to light. Ashton said there was no phantom plea and I believe him.

Casey was never in control of whether or not she got the DP. She certainly couldn't claim accident then take them to a duct taped child's remains. The SAs office never said, "take us to the body and we won't go for the DP." She never had the chance at a lighter sentence that I can recall because a plea was never offered.

When did Casey have the opportunity for a lighter sentence? They had the DP on the table, a lawyer wrote a cry me a river letter and they dropped it, then they found the body and it was back on.

BBM in red-What is this 'opportunity' that Casey missed you keep mentioning?

Re: Bolded By Me

I may be remembering incorrectly, it has been a couple years now, but wasn't there a plea deal on the table before Caylee's body was found? I though the SA offered a plea that expired early in the case. IIRC....
 
Re: Bolded By Me

I may be remembering incorrectly, it has been a couple years now, but wasn't there a plea deal on the table before Caylee's body was found? I though the SA offered a plea that expired early in the case. IIRC....

Yep, here's what you're remembering: http://www.wftv.com/download/2008/0829/17335521.pdf

The state offered Casey limited use immunity if she would assist in finding Caylee.

I think use immunity means that the state would not use her words against her at trial if she provided the information. They never offered her a plea deal such as we will give you a lighter sentence if you confess though.
 
Yeah, see what I mean about 'cult-ish'? The "CMA" nonsense and all the speaking in family codes borders loosely on the Mansonesque type of 'family'. They are a team in all the diabolical lies and nonsense.

What really cracked me up was when they were making fun of people who said they talked in code ~ If it's not code ~ they don't have sense enough to know how weirdly they communicate. They must think their communication is a normal way of speaking. . . :waitasec:
 
All that talkin in *code* is, besides a big load of bat poop (got that from someone on websleuths...lol) it sounds like a woman i saw on Oprah a few years ago.. talkin what they called Double Talk.. its all quite freakish if ya ask me.... is anyone askin me? LOL......

OH.. and yea BARF ON LEE'S STANCE FOR CASEY....( IN HIS KNEE HIGHS)

ugh
 
Yep, here's what you're remembering: http://www.wftv.com/download/2008/0829/17335521.pdf

The state offered Casey limited use immunity if she would assist in finding Caylee.

I think use immunity means that the state would not use her words against her at trial if she provided the information. They never offered her a plea deal such as we will give you a lighter sentence if you confess though.

Thanks. I remember that offer but couldn't remember the specifics. I just remember thinking she would be a fool to take them to the body because Casey would have put a nail in her own coffin. There was nothing beneficial in that offer to Casey, it would only benefit the prosecution. I was surprised they never said 'take us to her and we won't go for the DP'.
 
I think if KC would have said it was an 'accident' (which I do not believe at ALL) or even that she lost her temper and caused her death in a moment of rage (which I DO believe), she may have caught 15-20 yrs. KC cannot tell the truth, she refuses to admit she did it...to the bitter end. Cindy has the same personality trait. The shame to the family is too great, and to this family, the image of perfection means everything. The truth will never be told by any of them. KC will take it to her grave.
She chose the possibility of life in prison or even death rather than shamefully marring self and family image of 'perfection'. Now that's pathological indoctrination.

Casey could never reveal the truth because she duct taped Caylee's airways. You don't accidentally duct tape someone's face. She was going with the odds that her body would never be found. Legally, premeditation can happen in seconds and it takes a lot longer than seconds to duct tape someone's mouth/nose and smother them to death. I hope the SAs do a demonstration for the jury---- have complete silence for the time it takes to pull three long pieces of duct tape off a roll then put them on something (perhaps a baby doll), then wait the normal range of time it takes to smother someone. Caylee didn't just lay there and go to sleep, she was tortured.

We had a poster here a while back who had her mouth duct taped by an intruder. I'll never forget her post--about how the glue on the tape burned her throat, how she struggled using her tongue in order to get the tiniest bit of air in order to breath (she is a real hero, I hope she still reads here and reads this post, I'll never forget your story of courage).

Back to Casey, I think we can safely assume Casey didn't carry duct tape in her pocket so it would have taken time to get it. She could have stopped before she put the first piece on. She could have stopped before the 2nd piece, or the 3rd. She did not. She could have pulled or cut all three pieces off before Cayee died but she didn't (even if it was just enough to allow her to breath and therefore live). She coldly and methodically with premeditation killed her. It doesn't get any worse than that.

15-20 years to someone like Casey (heck to anyone) is a life time, especially to someone whose entire life revolves around her looks. She will be ~43 when she gets out if she gets 20 years (and that's if she serves all 20 years, doubtful). She would most likely still be able to have children. :eek: If Casey would have been offered a sweetheart deal to get out in 1-2 years she would have sung like a canary. Casey is all about Casey and no one else. Casey has been over the top cocky since the beginning. I really believe she thinks she's going to walk out of the courthouse after the trial a free woman, limo waiting, deals brokered for movies, books, etc.

I'm in the minority. I think Casey has no shame, none, nadda, zip. She stole from her grandparents knowing she would get caught. She emptied Amy's bank account knowing she would get caught. She even wiped out Caylee's piggy bank. She lied every day of her life to everyone. She cursed her mother loudly in front of neighbors. She showed up at a wedding clearly pregnant but denied it. I won't even get into the bed hopping with men. She cares about herself and everyone else better stay out of her way. She was still grinning from ear to ear when she got arrested for child endangerment (or whatever the first charge was). That didn't even phase her. Most mothers would have crumpled up in a heap of tears but not Casey, she was happy as a clam. She got to get her picture taken. Wahoo...picture time.

Casey chose the possibility of LWOP or death when she killed Caylee. She has the same trait as the rest of the As. They're all arrogant and stupid which is a great combination for prosecutors. The prosecutors are simply doing their jobs. The jury will decide Casey's fate, not Casey. FWIW I still think Casey thinks she's going to walk out of there a free woman after trial and become a celebrity.

IMO
 
Casey could never reveal the truth because she duct taped Caylee's airways. You don't accidentally duct tape someone's face. She was going with the odds that her body would never be found. Legally, premeditation can happen in seconds and it takes a lot longer than seconds to duct tape someone's mouth/nose and smother them to death. I hope the SAs do a demonstration for the jury---- have complete silence for the time it takes to pull three long pieces of duct tape off a roll then put them on something (perhaps a baby doll), then wait the normal range of time it takes to smother someone. Caylee didn't just lay there and go to sleep, she was tortured.

We had a poster here a while back who had her mouth duct taped by an intruder. I'll never forget her post--about how the glue on the tape burned her throat, how she struggled using her tongue in order to get the tiniest bit of air in order to breath (she is a real hero, I hope she still reads here and reads this post, I'll never forget your story of courage).

Back to Casey, I think we can safely assume Casey didn't carry duct tape in her pocket so it would have taken time to get it. She could have stopped before she put the first piece on. She could have stopped before the 2nd piece, or the 3rd. She did not. She could have pulled or cut all three pieces off before Cayee died but she didn't (even if it was just enough to allow her to breath and therefore live). She coldly and methodically with premeditation killed her. It doesn't get any worse than that.

15-20 years to someone like Casey (heck to anyone) is a life time, especially to someone whose entire life revolves around her looks. She will be ~43 when she gets out if she gets 20 years (and that's if she serves all 20 years, doubtful). She would most likely still be able to have children. :eek: If Casey would have been offered a sweetheart deal to get out in 1-2 years she would have sung like a canary. Casey is all about Casey and no one else. Casey has been over the top cocky since the beginning. I really believe she thinks she's going to walk out of the courthouse after the trial a free woman, limo waiting, deals brokered for movies, books, etc.

I'm in the minority. I think Casey has no shame, none, nadda, zip. She stole from her grandparents knowing she would get caught. She emptied Amy's bank account knowing she would get caught. She even wiped out Caylee's piggy bank. She lied every day of her life to everyone. She cursed her mother loudly in front of neighbors. She showed up at a wedding clearly pregnant but denied it. I won't even get into the bed hopping with men. She cares about herself and everyone else better stay out of her way. She was still grinning from ear to ear when she got arrested for child endangerment (or whatever the first charge was). That didn't even phase her. Most mothers would have crumpled up in a heap of tears but not Casey, she was happy as a clam. She got to get her picture taken. Wahoo...picture time.

Casey chose the possibility of LWOP or death when she killed Caylee. She has the same trait as the rest of the As. They're all arrogant and stupid which is a great combination for prosecutors. The prosecutors are simply doing their jobs. The jury will decide Casey's fate, not Casey. FWIW I still think Casey thinks she's going to walk out of there a free woman after trial and become a celebrity.

IMO
:clap: :clap: :clap:

Thanks just wasn't enough, jon. What a fantastic post. Like you were reading my mind....


The poster you refer to does still read and post here. (Not comfortable posting her screen name, I'll leave that up to her.) Her story of courage is something I will never forget either. Occasionaly she chimed in on the duct tape thread when we were actively sleuthing the 4 pieces found. Her input was so valuable in helping us understand certain things. btw, I don't know the last time you read that thread, but I am linking the latter portion here. We theorized heavily about the 4th piece found away from the remains - that the 4th piece found (Q104) was used to bind her hands. Since we posted our opinions/theories, something was later released that indicated the SA was theorizing the same.
 

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