CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #5

[RickshawFan]

Here is the link to a video and article about the oldest son’s classes at CC. He maintained a very high GPA and some were core classes (Algebra, Freshman Comp, Communications). He took classes in Spring 2014 - Spring 2017. I have a hard time believing he was able to do this well with a first grade education. It makes me think that the reference was to the younger children.

http://abc7.com/perris-torture-case-eldest-son-maintained-393-gpa/2978384/

Elementary algebra is Algebra 1. This is not a college level math class. It was for 11-year-olds where I went to school. Community colleges often teach classes that are not college level. IIRC, the Composition class was pre-freshman level, too.

I would think the freedom to take college classes means that some kids were treated differently than others for whatever reason.

 

[Ct92404]

Thanks all. I was/am thinking that the son with glasses is the oldest. The one I believe is the middle son is is the one with the short pants in the wedding video, crossed eyes, and walks with toes pointed in, and middle in height of the 3 sons. I could be wrong, just clarifying what I think.

Yeah, you're right that he is the one with crossed eyes and middle height. He is also the one that looks the thinnest in the Elvis videos, with people commenting about how his legs looked like sticks

That kid has clearly been subjected to some of worst starvation

The youngest son, who is still a minor, is sitting on the other section of the couch.

 

[Zelda1010]

I posted about that picture earlier. I'm a little bit confused about the ages of the two older boys, who are young adults. I don't know whether the one with glasses is the older, or if the other kid is. But in that picture, yes, you can definitely see that the boy second from the right is in VERY bad condition. He looks extremely weak and like he can't even sit up. And he's definitely not smiling. It's heartbreaking. I haven't seen an unblurred version of that picture, and I think if I did, I'd probably cry.

The other boy (one with glasses) is sitting next to him, and yes he does look like he's smiling and looks a little bit better.

I haven't seen it unblurred either. I'm assuming the boy with glasses is the oldest. His hair has a tendency to be a little kinkier and wilder and I think I was going by the hair. Of course I'm not finding it right now to re-evaluate for myself. I don't remember seeing the glasses.

 

[Ct92404]

Elementary algebra is Algebra 1. This is not a college level math class. It was for 11-year-olds where I went to school. Community colleges often teach classes that are not college level. IIRC, the Composition class was pre-freshman level, too.

I would think the freedom to take college classes means that some kids were treated differently than others for whatever reason.

No, the Freshman Comp would most likely be "English 102 - Freshman Composition and Literature." I took that in community college, and I can tell you that it is college level. It would count toward the requirements for an AA.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

Here is the full list of mandated reporters in California from the Penal Code - http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=11165.7. A dentist is a mandated reporter which might explain why there were no dental visits.

[h=5]ARTICLE 2.5. Child Abuse and Neglect Reporting Act [11164 - 11174.3][/h] ( Heading of Article 2.5 amended by Stats. 1987, Ch. 1444, Sec. 1. )

[h=6]11165.7. [/h](a) As used in this article, “mandated reporter” is defined as any of the following:
(1) A teacher.
(2) An instructional aide.
(3) A teacher’s aide or teacher’s assistant employed by a public or private school.
(4) A classified employee of a public school.
(5) An administrative officer or supervisor of child welfare and attendance, or a certificated pupil personnel employee of a public or private school.
(6) An administrator of a public or private day camp.
(7) An administrator or employee of a public or private youth center, youth recreation program, or youth organization.
(8) An administrator, board member, or employee of a public or private organization whose duties require direct contact and supervision of children, including a foster family agency.
(9) An employee of a county office of education or the State Department of Education whose duties bring the employee into contact with children on a regular basis.
(10) A licensee, an administrator, or an employee of a licensed community care or child day care facility.
(11) A Head Start program teacher.
(12) A licensing worker or licensing evaluator employed by a licensing agency, as defined in Section 11165.11.
(13) A public assistance worker.
(14) An employee of a child care institution, including, but not limited to, foster parents, group home personnel, and personnel of residential care facilities.
(15) A social worker, probation officer, or parole officer.
(16) An employee of a school district police or security department.
(17) A person who is an administrator or presenter of, or a counselor in, a child abuse prevention program in a public or private school.
(18) A district attorney investigator, inspector, or local child support agency caseworker, unless the investigator, inspector, or caseworker is working with an attorney appointed pursuant to Section 317 of the Welfare and Institutions Code to represent a minor.
(19) A peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, who is not otherwise described in this section.
(20) A firefighter, except for volunteer firefighters.
(21) A physician and surgeon, psychiatrist, psychologist, dentist, resident, intern, podiatrist, chiropractor, licensed nurse, dental hygienist, optometrist, marriage and family therapist, clinical social worker, professional clinical counselor, or any other person who is currently licensed under Division 2 (commencing with Section 500) of the Business and Professions Code.
(22) An emergency medical technician I or II, paramedic, or other person certified pursuant to Division 2.5 (commencing with Section 1797) of the Health and Safety Code.
(23) A psychological assistant registered pursuant to Section 2913 of the Business and Professions Code.
(24) A marriage and family therapist trainee, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 4980.03 of the Business and Professions Code.
(25) An unlicensed associate marriage and family therapist registered under Section 4980.44 of the Business and Professions Code.
(26) A state or county public health employee who treats a minor for venereal disease or any other condition.
(27) A coroner.
(28) A medical examiner or other person who performs autopsies.
(29) A commercial film and photographic print or image processor as specified in subdivision (e) of Section 11166. As used in this article, “commercial film and photographic print or image processor” means a person who develops exposed photographic film into negatives, slides, or prints, or who makes prints from negatives or slides, or who prepares, publishes, produces, develops, duplicates, or prints any representation of information, data, or an image, including, but not limited to, any film, filmstrip, photograph, negative, slide, photocopy, videotape, video laser disc, computer hardware, computer software, computer floppy disk, data storage medium, CD-ROM, computer-generated equipment, or computer-generated image, for compensation. The term includes any employee of that person; it does not include a person who develops film or makes prints or images for a public agency.
(30) A child visitation monitor. As used in this article, “child visitation monitor” means a person who, for financial compensation, acts as a monitor of a visit between a child and another person when the monitoring of that visit has been ordered by a court of law.
(31) An animal control officer or humane society officer. For the purposes of this article, the following terms have the following meanings:
(A) “Animal control officer” means a person employed by a city, county, or city and county for the purpose of enforcing animal control laws or regulations.
(B) “Humane society officer” means a person appointed or employed by a public or private entity as a humane officer who is qualified pursuant to Section 14502 or 14503 of the Corporations Code.
(32) A clergy member, as specified in subdivision (d) of Section 11166. As used in this article, “clergy member” means a priest, minister, rabbi, religious practitioner, or similar functionary of a church, temple, or recognized denomination or organization.
(33) Any custodian of records of a clergy member, as specified in this section and subdivision (d) of Section 11166.
(34) An employee of any police department, county sheriff’s department, county probation department, or county welfare department.
(35) An employee or volunteer of a Court Appointed Special Advocate program, as defined in Rule 5.655 of the California Rules of Court.
(36) A custodial officer, as defined in Section 831.5.
(37) A person providing services to a minor child under Section 12300 or 12300.1 of the Welfare and Institutions Code.
(38) An alcohol and drug counselor. As used in this article, an “alcohol and drug counselor” is a person providing counseling, therapy, or other clinical services for a state licensed or certified drug, alcohol, or drug and alcohol treatment program. However, alcohol or drug abuse, or both alcohol and drug abuse, is not, in and of itself, a sufficient basis for reporting child abuse or neglect.
(39) A clinical counselor trainee, as defined in subdivision (g) of Section 4999.12 of the Business and Professions Code.
(40) An associate professional clinical counselor registered under Section 4999.42 of the Business and Professions Code.
(41) An employee or administrator of a public or private postsecondary educational institution, whose duties bring the administrator or employee into contact with children on a regular basis, or who supervises those whose duties bring the administrator or employee into contact with children on a regular basis, as to child abuse or neglect occurring on that institution’s premises or at an official activity of, or program conducted by, the institution. Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as altering the lawyer-client privilege as set forth in Article 3 (commencing with Section 950) of Chapter 4 of Division 8 of the Evidence Code.
(42) An athletic coach, athletic administrator, or athletic director employed by any public or private school that provides any combination of instruction for kindergarten, or grades 1 to 12, inclusive.
(43) (A) A commercial computer technician as specified in subdivision (e) of Section 11166. As used in this article, “commercial computer technician” means a person who works for a company that is in the business of repairing, installing, or otherwise servicing a computer or computer component, including, but not limited to, a computer part, device, memory storage or recording mechanism, auxiliary storage recording or memory capacity, or any other material relating to the operation and maintenance of a computer or computer network system, for a fee. An employer who provides an electronic communications service or a remote computing service to the public shall be deemed to comply with this article if that employer complies with Section 2258A of Title 18 of the United States Code.
(B) An employer of a commercial computer technician may implement internal procedures for facilitating reporting consistent with this article. These procedures may direct employees who are mandated reporters under this paragraph to report materials described in subdivision (e) of Section 11166 to an employee who is designated by the employer to receive the reports. An employee who is designated to receive reports under this subparagraph shall be a commercial computer technician for purposes of this article. A commercial computer technician who makes a report to the designated employee pursuant to this subparagraph shall be deemed to have complied with the requirements of this article and shall be subject to the protections afforded to mandated reporters, including, but not limited to, those protections afforded by Section 11172.
(44) Any athletic coach, including, but not limited to, an assistant coach or a graduate assistant involved in coaching, at public or private postsecondary educational institutions.
(45) An individual certified by a licensed foster family agency as a certified family home, as defined in Section 1506 of the Health and Safety Code.
(46) An individual approved as a resource family, as defined in Section 1517 of the Health and Safety Code and Section 16519.5 of the Welfare and Institutions Code.
(b) Except as provided in paragraph (35) of subdivision (a), volunteers of public or private organizations whose duties require direct contact with and supervision of children are not mandated reporters but are encouraged to obtain training in the identification and reporting of child abuse and neglect and are further encouraged to report known or suspected instances of child abuse or neglect to an agency specified in Section 11165.9.
(c) Except as provided in subdivision (d), employers are strongly encouraged to provide their employees who are mandated reporters with training in the duties imposed by this article. This training shall include training in child abuse and neglect identification and training in child abuse and neglect reporting. Whether or not employers provide their employees with training in child abuse and neglect identification and reporting, the employers shall provide their employees who are mandated reporters with the statement required pursuant to subdivision (a) of Section 11166.5.
(d) Pursuant to Section 44691 of the Education Code, school districts, county offices of education, state special schools and diagnostic centers operated by the State Department of Education, and charter schools shall annually train their employees and persons working on their behalf specified in subdivision (a) in the duties of mandated reporters under the child abuse reporting laws. The training shall include, but not necessarily be limited to, training in child abuse and neglect identification and child abuse and neglect reporting.
(e) (1) On and after January 1, 2018, pursuant to Section 1596.8662 of the Health and Safety Code, a child care licensee applicant shall take training in the duties of mandated reporters under the child abuse reporting laws as a condition of licensure, and a child care administrator or an employee of a licensed child day care facility shall take training in the duties of mandated reporters during the first 90 days when he or she is employed by the facility.
(2) A person specified in paragraph (1) who becomes a licensee, administrator, or employee of a licensed child day care facility shall take renewal mandated reporter training every two years following the date on which he or she completed the initial mandated reporter training. The training shall include, but not necessarily be limited to, training in child abuse and neglect identification and child abuse and neglect reporting.
(f) Unless otherwise specifically provided, the absence of training shall not excuse a mandated reporter from the duties imposed by this article.
(g) Public and private organizations are encouraged to provide their volunteers whose duties require direct contact with and supervision of children with training in the identification and reporting of child abuse and neglect.
(Amended by Stats. 2017, Ch. 573, Sec. 77. (SB 800) Effective January 1, 2018.)

 

[Ct92404]

Elementary algebra is Algebra 1. This is not a college level math class. It was for 11-year-olds where I went to school. Community colleges often teach classes that are not college level. IIRC, the Composition class was pre-freshman level, too.

I would think the freedom to take college classes means that some kids were treated differently than others for whatever reason.

No, the Freshman Comp would most likely be "English 101 - Freshman Composition and Literature." I took that in community college, and I can tell you that it is college level. It would count toward the requirements for an AA. Not necessarily for a specific major, it would just be one of the classes you would need to take to fulfill the requirements to graduate from a community college with an Associate's Degree. Everyone has to take those classes.

 

[Shelby2]

Yeah, you're right that he is the one with crossed eyes and middle height. He is also the one that looks the thinnest in the Elvis videos, with people commenting about how his legs looked like sticks

That kid has clearly been subjected to some of worst starvation

The youngest son, who is still a minor, is sitting on the other section of the couch.

When I was an EMT, if we ever had a patient who looked as bad as that middle son did, he would be taken to one of the hospitals in the city, and not the smaller hospital in town. It's that bad.

 

[Jasper52]

That's pretty stunning information. First, it shows at least some of the kids have much more education than we thought. Second, it shows the lengths the psycho mother would go to control and stalk her grown child. Three year ya'll! She followed him to every class for three years! How psycho!!

Finally, wow. It also shows how bright that young man is. Imagine getting such good grades under those bizarre and sadistic conditions!!!!

I too am happy to see that he did so well but I have to wonder if he was being "groomed" for a future JOB to be the sole provider for the family?

 

[arkansasmimi]

:waitasec: By the time you get through 3 of those frocks, your sewing skills are going to be very finely honed for the final 7.

Also, with all that fabric, some sewing store clerk (e.g. Joanne's) should remember. That's a lot of yardage, and it's probably normally used for teddy bear clothing.

Is there a Butterick or Simplicity pattern with that style dress?

They probably bought them at Target during Christmas. During the Holidays, moms like to dress up their daughters in party frocks, so stores sell them.

I personally believe they purchased them, there are a couple that are a little bit different design. The younger. Plus the boys maybe they rented those. Yes on dressing. There are actually a lot if people doing t he dress up same. I noticed on my own fb feeds. The jeans and solid Polo shirts are popular than. And pajamas too lol I think just as others have said they never suspected anything til that Sunday. No one suspected anything with the photos being odd or out of place.

DA says covers the other home prior to this one yet no one has said anything about there.

 

[Bill Carson]

bbm

I wonder how the heck she even got away with doing that? I don't think the school I attended would have even allowed it, or if they had to, it sure would have raised a few inquiring eyebrows... It would have undoubtedly be seen as a red flag, to my mind.

While unusual, I don't think it would have been prohibited. Haven't you heard---teenagers these days are starting to drive later and later. He's probably not the only community college student whose parents drive them to and from school.

And every college campus I've been on is very much a public space, meaning that anyone can walk around campus or sit in common areas.

It would look a little odd, yes, but nothing to call adult protective services about (remember, he was an adult by then).

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Has anyone noticed that DT appears to have exceptionally thick hair for his age and that LT has extreme thinning on top? That amount of thinning on a woman's head usually indicates some sort of hormone issue.

The video of the TURPINS in court made me question if he wears a wig...

I could see no discernible part..

and the texture (and the amount, as you indicate above) gave me that impression...

additionally... I noticed her hair thinning, too...

Coincidentally...The woman who stabbed and killed almost all her children and her husband (referred to in prior post in this thread) had an even more accentuated loss of hair than LT...

what any of this means... I don't know...

these are just some observations of mine...

All... JMO...

 

[Shelby2]

While unusual, I don't think it would have been prohibited. Haven't you heard---teenagers these days are starting to drive later and later. He's probably not the only community college student whose parents drive them to and from school.

And every college campus I've been on is very much a public space, meaning that anyone can walk around campus or sit in common areas.

It would look a little odd, yes, but nothing to call adult protective services about (remember, he was an adult by then).

Who knows what story she gave the school about why she 'needed" to be there.

 

[KaaBoom]

So could this mean that the DA isn't willing to accept any kind of a plea deal? I really hate that the kids would have to testify, but at the same time it could be very therapeutic for them to face their parents in court.

From a selfish point of view, I want a trial. I want to hear from the parents. My brain is trying so hard to make sense out of all of this - to find some reasoning, or something that helps it makes sense. But it just doesn't compute.

A plea bargain would be in the best interest of all parties involved. The DA want not want to make the victims testify, and defence lawyers would also not want that. Of course they will negotiate a deal.

 

[Bill Carson]

I wonder if the middle boy might have some sort of dietary deficiency that causes him to be so thin even if he is eating "sufficient" calories. I'm not suggesting he wasn't mistreated or "starved," but could part of it be that the diet was so nutritionally poor that it caused emaciation?

Thyroid problem? Surely the kids are all Vitamin D deficient from not getting any sunlight. Surely that has side effects other than pale skin.

Anyone here know anything about that?

 

[arkansasmimi]

You can be sure the lawyers will point out that every kid under 14 is held against their will at some point. " You're grounded". "Go to your room" etc. Unfortunately for the Ts, the math will do them in. Half a dozen chained adults should keep them nicely locked up.

Lol true story! Was visiting my great grandmother one time at a nursing home. Cops show up. :laughing: an elderly man called 911 and told them he was being held against his will and these people had him tied up too! He wasn't lying, he wanted to go home and they had a bed restraint on him! *wasn't a chain and padlock thought

 

[Bill Carson]

A plea bargain would be in the best interest of all parties involved. The DA want not want to make the victims testify, and defence lawyers would also not want that. Of course they will negotiate a deal.

The DA will be under a great deal of public scrutiny to offer a harsh sentence. If the plea deal is effectively a "life sentence," then the defendants have nothing to lose by taking the case to trial.

 

[Errrr]

Yeah, I'm thinking it was more of a big ole middle finger combined with her being bats**t crazy. That woman, does not have the look, of an individual who has a firm grasp on reality. She's lived in her own little world too long.

I think her husband created a monster when he married a teenager. He was probably warned off jailbait till jailbait became insistent. Maybe he decided teenagers weren't so off limits as he was led to believe and he thought he had a prize. Promised to give her everything she wanted. She wanted all the way to bankruptcy, twice. Maybe he couldn't say no, once she had nothing left going for her, no education, teenage intellect. Combine that with a guy who won't do today what he can put off till tomorrow. They are each others enabler.

 

[madamx]

Me too. But as we are seeing in the R case, if it turns out that a family member was involved, then family could do a whole lot worse.

But how a parent could treat their kids this way is way beyond what I can comprehend. I can only assume (or hope) that the starvation was motivated by financial hardship, getting worse with each child born. I am like you RSD I don't think it began until after a couple of the first kids were born. It may even have began in TX if DT was laid off work. I cannot imagine feeding 4 or 5 kids on unemployment. But I am thinking food stamps were available in the 90"s? But by all accounts the first girl was born in 1988 and went to third grade which if we do the math and assume she started in 1st grade at 6 years of age, she would have been 9 at that time. So that would put it at 1997 and at that time 5 kids or maybe 6. Since their home was foreclosed on around that time then that means they were going through a severe financial setback. I could see LT maybe rationing food at that time to be able to keep the house. That doesn't in anyway make it right though, I would have put my kids first and lived in a tent in order to make sure they got enough to eat. Then as more kids were born the rationing became worse until it was just one meal a day. Of course they had to keep them from going outside and maybe telling someone about what was going on so they began tying them up (and maybe to keep them from getting into the fridge or cabinets and eating up what little food there was?).

Or maybe I am just trying to insert a rationale for totally irrational behavior.

JMO

I don't think it had to do with any financial hardships.. In the link below it mentions how they had pigs in 2003 and the pigs got loose and went and ate 55lbs of the neighbors dogfood.. Clearly if the pigs are being fed they would Not wander out to go find dog food at the neighbors house!!.. I believe the not feeding started with the animals.. and progressed to the children..

They seemed to me like 2 very selfish, irresponsible and immature people that like the newness of things and once it becomes old they have no interest and it becomes a burden or chore.. Looks like that with the dogs and cats they had and then they left them to die in the house when they left Texas.. The houses in the beginning they look all great but then its work to keep it up and they lose interest and its a burden. Just like the kids they loved having them small but then as they grow they lose interest. That is probably why they renewed their vows so many times because its the excitement of it being new.

Makes me wonder how long they had the most recent dogs since they seemed to be in ok shape. They say the dogs were about a year old.. I guarantee once they got older they would of done the same thing to those dogs as they did to the kids.. I am amazed at how they were even able to get those dogs. I wonder who adopted them out to them, did they even do a home check?

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/fort-worth/article195422789.html

 

[arkansasmimi]

I wonder if the middle boy might have some sort of dietary deficiency that causes him to be so thin even if he is eating "sufficient" calories. I'm not suggesting he wasn't mistreated or "starved," but could part of it be that the diet was so nutritionally poor that it caused emaciation?

Thyroid problem? Surely the kids are all Vitamin D deficient from not getting any sunlight. Surely that has side effects other than pale skin.

Anyone here know anything about that?

I wondering on a few. The oldest daughter movement, and body language make me get the vibe of mentally challenged. *not talking about awkwardness in the heels. Just as a whole.

The middle boy, he definitely appears to have eye issues , maybe he is who went to specialist in Cleburne

 

[RickshawFan]

Thanks for this link. I had missed seeing this video. I paused it at 1:08 and this is what is posted as his classes.

Spring 2014
Math 090 Elementary Algebra
Fall 2015
Engl 098 English Fundamentals
Math 096 Intermediate Algebra
Mus 101 Music Fundamentals
Spring 2016
Mus 125 Guitar 1
Mul 110 Introduction to Multi
Com 100 Public Speaking
Engl 101 Freshman Composition
Math 105 College Algebra
Summer 2016
AUME 100 Basic Auto mechanics
Fall 2016
MUS 127 Guitar 2
Spring 2017
AUME 119 Basic Brake Systems
MUS 214 Guitar Ensemble
AUME 122 Engine Performance 1 *withdrew from class in Feb*
ANTH 115 Intro to Archaeology *B*

With the exception to the last two classes, he made A's! Smart guy!

Those are 100-level classes. And some are <100. They are not classes that involve critical thinking skills, just basic aptitude. They were spread out over several years. There was no advancement in levels beyond pre-freshman to intro. I would not take A's in these classes to be exceptional, except maybe in an instance like this where a youngster has been in a traumatizing environment.

Many state universities would not accept several of these classes as worthy of transfer credits. Just sayin'.

I guess he was being trained to maintain the family auto fleet? Do Elvis with the guitar? Mom and Dad might have thought they'd have a PR person: thus the public speaking. All of the topics could be taken for a purpose required by mom and dad.