CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #8

[Spice]

Karen Conti is joined by Megan Lerner of Lurie’s Children’s Hospital Trauma and Abuse, as she shares her thoughts on the Turpin child abuse case in California.

http://wgnradio.com/2018/01/28/a-deeper-look-into-the-turpin-child-abuse-case/

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Many religions encourage the discipline of fasting. Non-religious people also sometimes encourage fasting for health purposes, etc. Fasting isn't a problem if it is a personal choice, for whatever reason it is done. Fasting would only be a problem if someone imposed it on others. I have personally practiced fasting, but I would never have forced my children to do so. If they personally felt they wanted to fast, I would encourage them to refrain from a favorite food or to fast from something they enjoyed, like TV or video games. It is wrong to speculate that someone who advocates or practices fasting for religious purposes is an unsuitable caregiver to others.

BBM

It's not that someone who promotes fasting would be an unsuitable caregiver in general, it's that it isn't the best idea for these children who will have lifelong food issues.


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Ontario Mom]

Kidnapped victim in another case wants authorities to allow Turpin kids to see parents:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...rents-children-Natascha-Kampusch-trial-prison

Satch

On the one hand, it kind of makes sense for them to be able to (if they chose to, if qualified therapists agree it's potentially helpful) see the parents to either forgive or say their goodbyes...

I'm just not sure I'd be so eager to take such advice from a former victim who now lives in and continues to clean the home she was held captive in, and cleaned. I mean... maybe it's just me, but it definitely seems like something is not healthy there.

JMO.

 

[JaneEyre]

BBM
The survivor who drew this could have been sitting or standing on a piece of furniture in order for the drawing to be sitting that high on the wall. It looks to me as if this may have been sketched above a headboard. We also have to remember that these "children" are mostly adults and adolescents with the exception of the 2 year old baby. Although malnourished due to starvation and torture, they do not truly stand as "small" as they appear in our minds.

I have had to be mindful of this repeatedly . My mind just sees them as small children. They are not.

They had bunk beds.

And IMO, what's written says Jeni.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[mtnlites]

With all due respect and to be clear, I do not believe there is anything wrong with religious fasting when it is not used to literally starve or restrict food from your children, used as a form of punishment or discipline, or used as a form of control of children. I'm not asserting that this is what happened with the Turpins. We don't know yet.

My mention of the Uncle's book on fasting (The uncle that stated he wanted to adopt the children) should be taken in the context of this case.

Imho, it is not wrong in any way to criticize a religious practice if it used irresponsibly, recklessly, or nefariously to harm another person or child. Harmful religious practices, personal choice or not, are not above the law nor are they above criticism.

Context is everything.

These survivors were starved.

:moo:

Yeah, it's like the Dr. Seuss shirts. Totally harmless, fun shirts that lots of kids wear. In context of this case, however, creepy and sad.

 

[mtnlites]

On the one hand, it kind of makes sense for them to be able to (if they chose to, if qualified therapists agree it's potentially helpful) see the parents to either forgive or say their goodbyes...

I'm just not sure I'd be so eager to take such advice from a former victim who now lives in and continues to clean the home she was held captive in, and cleaned. I mean... maybe it's just me, but it definitely seems like something is not healthy there.

JMO.

And it's also a really personal, individual decision that can't truly be compared to others' experiences. I mean, the experiences may differ from sibling to sibling, with each one having their own needs and levels of "triggers." What worked for this victim may not work for Child #3 or Child #8 (or for any of them).

Note: I know about NK's case and as hard as I try to be non-judgmental and understanding about it, there are LOTS of things that I just don't get with her current decisions. But I'm not her and I didn't live through it. I would venture to say, however, that her particular decisions regarding how she chooses to process her trauma are not ones that are commonly seen or done.

 

[DakotaMayi]

On the one hand, it kind of makes sense for them to be able to (if they chose to, if qualified therapists agree it's potentially helpful) see the parents to either forgive or say their goodbyes...

I'm just not sure I'd be so eager to take such advice from a former victim who now lives in and continues to clean the home she was held captive in, and cleaned. I mean... maybe it's just me, but it definitely seems like something is not healthy there.

JMO.

Yes I agree. And although I appreciate Natascha's concern for the children and that is what she thought she would have needed to do, it seems that she did not get the chance with Wolfgang to confront him so she cannot know how that encounter will have affected her.

Natascha's recovery is something of concern.

 

[JaneEyre]

The hospital staffs, (the kids are being treated at two different medical centers.) in their communications thought it would be fun for the kids to have an iPad. If you could be fun stuff for the kids, what would you give them? Or expose them to fun stuff? What do you think that they would like? Now this assumes that they have the essential needs of life first like clean clothes, clean facilities, comfortable beds, and and can get comfortable with hygiene and personal grooming skills.

In other words, if you could be with the Turpin kids for a day, what would you give them? Fun places you would take them? So many things! First of all I would ask them, what they wanted to do that would be fun and special for them? Since they were deprived of food, I would bring fast food for them. So that they could eat hamburgers, pizza, and tacos. Stuff that they never in there lives. I think it is going to be so exciting for them to see a new world that they have never known! I think that the kids would really love a laptop computer! And we know that they were allowed to write. I think that they would enjoy expressing themselves.

Most importantly, I would be there as a good listener and friend to help them and guide them through the life they never had.

Satch

If it wasn't winter, I would give them their own little garden patch to grow flowers. I would give them lap looms for weaving, knitting boards, and things to embroider so they could learn dexterity while creating beautiful things. I would give them colored pencils, watercolors, and journals to express themselves. I would focus on showing them how to create beautiful things and self expression rather than computer games and such. Basically, I would give them access to my craft room!

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[JaneEyre]

It's hard to know what they have and haven't done. If I hadn't seen the pictures, for instance, I'd have doubted that they'd been to Disneyland or that the parents took them to Las Vegas on their 21st birthdays. But I'd probably do things with them that weren't too overwhelming. (Laser tag, for instance, might be intimidating with the dark room and loud noises but mini golf might be fun.) The movies, perhaps? I live way out in the country and I think it'd be fun to get all of them bicycles (you can purchase training wheels and attach them to adult bikes if they need them) and to go for a ride. Or, if they're not too intimated, put them on my horses and take them down to the lake on our farm. We have ducks down there and my kids like feeding them. Spend the evening doing some kind of craft project, perhaps painting rocks which is a big thing in my community. The next day, we could take our rocks and hide them around town and look for ones that people have hidden. Make milkshakes and chocolate chip cookies together.

Basically, I'd just do with them as I do with my own kids. I don't want to treat them as children, since many of them are not, so I'd try to find activities that are fun and suited for all ages.

Ah, yes. I already replied, but I would add animals in the mix. I'd allow them to hang out at a petting zoo for as long as they wanted.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[Doghairrules]

It's hard to know what they have and haven't done. If I hadn't seen the pictures, for instance, I'd have doubted that they'd been to Disneyland or that the parents took them to Las Vegas on their 21st birthdays. But I'd probably do things with them that weren't too overwhelming. (Laser tag, for instance, might be intimidating with the dark room and loud noises but mini golf might be fun.) The movies, perhaps? I live way out in the country and I think it'd be fun to get all of them bicycles (you can purchase training wheels and attach them to adult bikes if they need them) and to go for a ride. Or, if they're not too intimated, put them on my horses and take them down to the lake on our farm. We have ducks down there and my kids like feeding them. Spend the evening doing some kind of craft project, perhaps painting rocks which is a big thing in my community. The next day, we could take our rocks and hide them around town and look for ones that people have hidden. Make milkshakes and chocolate chip cookies together.

Basically, I'd just do with them as I do with my own kids. I don't want to treat them as children, since many of them are not, so I'd try to find activities that are fun and suited for all ages.

Horses can be wonderfully therapeutic.

ETA: thank you for painting such a wonderful picture of the things you would do with and for these amazing survivors!!

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I think that I might be looking at the wrong house or something. I was expecting the horrible pictures that we saw in the media.

Satch

I can't open the first link right now so no comment on that, but in general I do not believe we have seen any photos of the Perris house once it was occupied -- all the photos I've seen were of their previous houses after they left.

 

[JaneEyre]

With all due respect and to be clear, I do not believe there is anything wrong with religious fasting when it is not used to literally starve or restrict food from your children, used as a form of punishment or discipline, or used as a form of control of children. I'm not asserting that this is what happened with the Turpins. We don't know yet.

My mention of the Uncle's book on fasting (The uncle that stated he wanted to adopt the children) should be taken in the context of this case.

Imho, it is not wrong in any way to criticize a religious practice if it used irresponsibly, recklessly, or nefariously to harm another person or child. Harmful religious practices, personal choice or not, are not above the law nor are they above criticism.

Context is everything.

These survivors were starved.

:moo:

My issue with them being placed with anyone who has written a book that centralized fasting is that I don't think any kind of fasting should even be mentioned around these kids for at least a decade. They are going to have food issues for life, and it's going to be hard enough for them to keep a handle on healthy eating. They don't need to be around anyone who pushes fasting in their lives, even if they do not push it on the kids.

There's something else I want to say about it, but I can't really verbalize it at the moment. (I'm having some cognitive issues lately from health issues and have difficulty getting my thoughts together at times.) I'll either come back to it, or likely someone else in here will verbalize it and then I will say, This!

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[JaneEyre]

I like the idea of "Turpin Strong".

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Except the name. They may not want to use it and it could be confused as either support for the parents, or at least grouping the family together with the parents. We have to remember that historically (as well as the "now" undercurrents) women and children take the husband's and father's name to signify belonging to him. It was literally that they were his property. Now it still signifies belonging to the parents.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[Doghairrules]

I think shirts is a great idea. I remember all the Houston Strong shirts after the Hurricane. they were really popular and raised a lot of money and gave us a visual connector.

They can also be a way to bring awareness to child abuse and torture all over the country. I’d buy one, for sure.

 

[DakotaMayi]

My issue with them being placed with anyone who has written a book that centralized fasting is that I don't think any kind of fasting should even be mentioned around these kids for at least a decade. They are going to have food issues for life, and it's going to be hard enough for them to keep a handle on healthy eating. They don't need to be around anyone who pushes fasting in their lives, even if they do not push it on the kids.

There's something else I want to say about it, but I can't really verbalize it at the moment. (I'm having some cognitive issues lately from health issues and have difficulty getting my thoughts together at times.) I'll either come back to it, or likely someone else in here will verbalize it and then I will say, This!

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

(O/T: Sorry to hear of the health issues, vmmking. Take care).

 

[Doghairrules]

Thanks for the feedback everyone! Now it's just a matter of figuring out exactly how to make this happen. I'm a college student so this may be difficult, I'll keep you all posted.
Also, just my two cents on the drawing in the room, I was under the impression that a child drew it, but I could be wrong. Not sure if someone said this already, but if that is feces smeared in the middle of the drawing, that can be a sign of several mental health issues. It can be a result of abuse, particularly sexual trauma, but is also very common in children with radical attachment disorder (extremely common in cases of neglect).

I volunteer with a couple of dog rescues that have done t shirt fundraisers. If you can find a nonprofit to work with, they can use one of the t shirt companies that does this.

 

[Doghairrules]

Interesting theory she has there---that the children might be able to heal better if they are allowed to confront their parents---and she might be right, but we'll never know because it ain't gonna happen.

I suspect that if and when the time is right and the survivors have the support of therapists who agree this would be healing, it would be allowed.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Ah, yes. I already replied, but I would add animals in the mix. I'd allow them to hang out at a petting zoo for as long as they wanted.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

I was thinking animals as well... Puppies and kittens...

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[JaneEyre]

(O/T: Sorry to hear of the health issues, vmmking. Take care).

Thanks. It's a rotten thing for someone whose life has been centered around words (MA in English and a lifetime focus on writing) to lose their words. It's a special kind of hell. Today is not as bad as it sometimes is.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[mtnlites]

Thanks. It's a rotten thing for someone whose life has been centered around words (MA in English and a lifetime focus on writing) to lose their words. It's a special kind of hell. Today is not as bad as it sometimes is.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

I understand. I am an author and I have a medical condition that causes neurological issues (a Chiari Malformation). Brain surgery 5 years ago helped with some of the symptoms but I still have trouble now and then: forgetfulness, brain fog, unable to think of the simple word that I want to use, etc. The worst part is when I will *think* I am writing one word (like tree) but it will come out as something totally different (house). So I get it. Hang in there!