CA - 14 killed in San Bernardino mass shooting, 2 Dec 2015 #4

[Dockins]

If this was just the two of them, I cannot think of one good reason to dispose of the electronics they did. Not one reason makes sense to me, other than to hide an electronic trail to people involved, or in the planning of something else. You leave your baby and bombs behind, but you're gonna hide the ways you communicate with other people. If they didn't think they would be caught, the first thing they would have done is change their clothing and ditch the weapons. Instead, they ditch the electronics.

 

[Tillicum]

Not sure what this means. Did they all live there and all just moved out a few months ago?

He and other neighbors have said Enrique Marquez, Jr., a young man who lived at the home, and Farook appeared to be good friends. The source said Marquez is the person the FBI is seeking to interview.

Farook, his parents and siblings lived on Tomlinson for several years before moving out a few months ago. Marquez lived next door.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...terrorism-probe-continues-20151205-story.html

 

[longlonglake]

I want to go back NOT to prior 9/11, I want a 1950's Leave It To Beaver life. I don't like that this is the world my children, and eventually their children, will inherit. A political and environmental mess is what they've inherited. WWIII is not impossible. I'm really down tonight. My heart goes out to the families of those killed or injured. And the psychological harm done to all of the survivors must be immense.

I agree.


Who is going to lead us? Neville Chamberlain or Winston Churchill?

 

[Gigi-G]

I'm still catching up with the thread. Who is the "Mosque Guy"? Has he been named a POI by LE? Why is he being discussed?

The Mosque Cleric and Farook shared in excess of 38 text messages before the attack. It's what and why those messages were about. The Cleric said they were messages about a chicken meal at the end of a Ramadan fast. That was being held in the Mosque for all to attend.
I think he has been interviewed by LE.

 

[SophieRose]

If this was in June, wouldn't she have been at full term with her pregnancy? Seems like it if the baby is 6 months old. Not defending this woman, but she may have even given birth around the same time. I haven't found the babies DOB. It could be that simple. ?

Don't know the date baby was born but assume it was in the month of May since the due date was May 17.

 

[Gigi-G]

If this was just the two of them, I cannot think of one good reason to dispose of the electronics they did. Not one reason makes sense to me, other than to hide an electronic trail to people involved, or in the planning of something else. You leave your baby and bombs behind, but you're gonna hide the ways you communicate with other people. If they didn't think they would be caught, the first thing they would have done is change their clothing and ditch the weapons. Instead, they ditch the electronics.

Yup gotchya. It's far bigger than just they 2. Ya'll have got their stash now so that's put a fox amongst the chickens. Whether they were meant to carry out more. I think is possible.. and if the LE could still be looking for another POI. I reckon that's more likely.

 

[JLSChook]

None of us know if the "Mosque Guy" and Farook were speaking in code. To say with absolute certainty that they were not speaking in code is irresponsible.

I'll leave it up to the FBI to determine if they were or not.

You (collectively) would be surprised at the 'codes' that are used all the time to hide criminal activity. (Through texts, phone calls, in person meetings, etc....)

 

[Nova]

I want to go back NOT to prior 9/11, I want a 1950's Leave It To Beaver life. I don't like that this is the world my children, and eventually their children, will inherit. A political and environmental mess is what they've inherited. WWIII is not impossible. I'm really down tonight. My heart goes out to the families of those killed or injured. And the psychological harm done to all of the survivors must be immense.

The 1950s may have seemed idyllic here in the U.S., but it certainly wasn't in the countries we invaded. Korea, Vietnam, Guatemala, The Dominican Republic, the Congo and Iran come to mind. Meanwhile, we were still occupying Japan and Germany.

And it wasn't idyllic in this country to African Americans, gays and many women.

The decade only seemed idyllic because the rest of world was in shambles from WWII and so our economy (and our abundance of cheap oil) dominated the world. I fear those days are gone for good.

 

[Gigi-G]

Don't know the date baby was born but assume it was in the month of May since the due date was May 17.

To be very honest with you. I don't even think she was pregnant. I don't even think the lil one was even theirs.
I think she was used as a prop. More likely brought up and cared for by Grandma.
I just hope the poor mite has a decent upbringing free of the ramifications her so called parents put the family and her thru.. jmoo

 

[sorrell skye]

I don't have his name.

Someone reported in an earlier posts that some text messages between Farook and one of the leaders at a Mosque in California is being investigated.

I've read that a leader of a San Bernardino mosque was questioned by LE about some text messages, and those text messages were reportedly about food donations.

A leader of a San Bernardino mosque said investigators questioned him about a series of text messages he sent massacre gunman Syed Farook, but they were only about food donations for Islamic holy days.

Between June 12 and June 28, he and Farook exchanged 38 messages, he said, according to his phone records.

"He was bringing food, so I was coordinating with him," Abbassi said. "They were nothing more than about food."

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/sa...dino-shooter-eyed-fbi-were-about-food-n474891

I understand why the FBI wanted to question him, since they're questioning everyone Farook had recent communications with.

Until and unless he's been named a POI by LE, I don't think it's at all right to insinuate that he has anything to do with the terrorist attack.

 

[Chuz Life]

Thank you for your candor. I think we all think as you do, at least from time to time.

The problem is that while we are eyeing Muslims with suspicion, in this country we are more likely to be killed by a right wing, self-professed "Christian", terrorist. (The latter is at the moment; we've had plenty of left wing terrorism in the U.S. in other periods.)

If a Christian terrorist couple goes on the rampage that this couple did in San Bernadino, do you agree that their places of worship (sic) would be reasonable targets for scrutiny and investigation?

 

[BarryW]

The 50's was no bed of roses for everyone, I can remember that far back. There were lots of problems just different ones. If you were white you didn't need to worry about terrorists any other color and you were on your own. Native American children were ripped from their homes and shipped off to boarding schools, blacks were lynched, on and on. Heaven forbid if you were different in any way.

I am in Canada. We did not have race riots here, though I do recall seeing them on the news. Again, I was speaking of my life as a child, through my child's eyes. We did not know about the boarding schools for First Nations people for many years.

As a child I lived a life that was mostly carefree and innocent. Today's children do not have that luxury. We have to drive them everywhere. We have to warn them about good touch/bad touch (I think as a kid I knew a little about that, but it wasn't so prevalent, so we didn't worry about it). Without internet we didn't know about *advertiser censored* WAY too young. We walked everywhere by ourselves. It was a kinder place, at least through my eyes. And I was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth. I was raised in a public housing complex (you'd call it The Projects in the US). But even from that world I so much appreciate that I was raised when/where I was as compared to today.

But this forum is not about that, so I apologize for the threadjack.

 

[Cappuccino]

None of us know if the "Mosque Guy" and Farook were speaking in code. To say with absolute certainty that they were not speaking in code is irresponsible.

I'll leave it up to the FBI to determine if they were or not.

You (collectively) would be surprised at the 'codes' that are used all the time to hide criminal activity. (Through texts, phone calls, in person meetings, etc....)

Of course I can't say with certainty either way. All I can say is that nothing I've seen yet shakes my initial opinion that this was a couple who were radicalised through international means, either the internet or the newly arrived wife, and not by the local mosque.

 

[Cappuccino]

If a Christian terrorist couple goes on the rampage that this couple did in San Bernadino, do you agree that their places of worship (sic) would be reasonable targets for scrutiny and investigation?

Yes, I would. But if said Christian couple were just the latest in a long line of Christians who had been radicalised through certain specific web sites and certain specific online preachers, do you agree that it would be reasonable to think that their online history is at least as important as their local church? And would you further agree that in such a case, their local preacher should be looked at as innocent until proven guilty, even if he had exchanged text messages with them about food donations?

 

[AngelWings444]

The baby was born sometime in May, probably at the end of May. Ramadan was June 17. There is no way I would show up for any event with a ton of people with a brand new baby. I wouldn't be so quick to judge the chicken story. I am arranging a Christmas pot-luck event and trying to get more than one-word answers is next to impossible.

When LE name the mosque leader, then I'll believe it. But, if the only texts were 38 and they were from June, I highly doubt he had knowledge of this horrific event.

I think everyone (news etc&#8230 is putting way too much blame on her and not the husband. They were equal partners in this terrorist act. I believe that it is very difficult to believe that someone that is born and raised in the USA could actually be the influencer. Easier to believe the influence was from another country. I don't think this is the end of it. There were definitely others involved. I am sure right here in the USA. Why else would they smash their phones and try to erase their digital prints?

Furthermore, IMO - it is a mass shooting/terrorist attack. JMO

 

[Chuz Life]

Yes, I would. But if said Christian couple were just the latest in a long line of Christians who had been radicalised through certain specific web sites and certain specific online preachers, do you agree that it would be reasonable to think that their online history is at least as important as their local church? And would you further agree that in such a case, their local preacher should be looked at as innocent until proven guilty, even if he had exchanged text messages with them about food donations?

I already said earlier that having suspicions is not the same thing as pointing a finger of guilt. So, what more can I add to that. Of course, everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty. That is not a shield from anyone being investigated though. Is it?

 

[bluesneakers]

If you take ALL murders here in the US, you have to ask yourself - are the ones committed by family members, in the committing of a crime such as robbery, gang violence, drive-by shootings, killings by mentally ill people, cop shootings....etc. MOSTLY committed by right wingers, OR Christians OR crazies?
(The last 3 don't necessarily all go together.)

Seriously, can someone get some statistics? I don't think Columbine was shot up by right wingers.
I'll bet violence is equally divided between groups.

Homegrown Extremists Tied to Deadlier Toll Than Jihadists in U.S. Since 9/11
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/u...es-perceptions-of-top-terror-threat.html?_r=0

Non-Muslims Carried Out More than 90% of All Terrorist Attacks in America
http://www.globalresearch.ca/non-mu...0-of-all-terrorist-attacks-in-america/5333619

10 of the Worst Terror Attacks by Extreme Christians and Far-Right White Men
http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-a...ks-extreme-christians-and-far-right-white-men

This has some interesting graphics wrt mass shootings:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/mass-shootings-in-america/

 

[Cappuccino]

I already said earlier that having suspicions is not the same thing as pointing a finger of guilt. So, what more can I add to that. Of course, everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty. That is not a shield from anyone being investigated though. Is it?

Of course not. The local mosque is an obvious place to investigate in such a situation, investigate away. Just my opinion, but I'd be willing to bet good money that it won't stem from there.

 

[Tillicum]

The baby was born sometime in May, probably at the end of May. Ramadan was June 17. There is no way I would show up for any event with a ton of people with a brand new baby. I wouldn't be so quick to judge the chicken story. I am arranging a Christmas pot-luck event and trying to get more than one-word answers is next to impossible.

When LE name the mosque leader, then I'll believe it. But, if the only texts were 38 and they were from June, I highly doubt he had knowledge of this horrific event.

I think everyone (news etc&#8230 is putting way too much blame on her and not the husband. They were equal partners in this terrorist act. I believe that it is very difficult to believe that someone that is born and raised in the USA could actually be the influencer. Easier to believe the influence was from another country. I don't think this is the end of it. There were definitely others involved. I am sure right here in the USA. Why else would they smash their phones and try to erase their digital prints?

Furthermore, IMO - it is a mass shooting/terrorist attack. JMO

The most important thing I took from the article is that the FBI has been able to retrieve texts from as far back as June from the phone Farook destroyed.

 

[Dockins]

In this article linked up thread http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...terrorism-probe-continues-20151205-story.html
The attorney states LE want the wedding guest list of the two.