CA-Amber Leeanne Dubois (14 YO)- Escondido Thread # 2

[nursebeeme]

thank you travelingbug for all your hard and very professional work on this map!

----------------

Here is the link to bug's map of Chelsea's case which also has all of Amber's pertinent locations on it as well. I got her permission to post it here. Again, thanks Bug.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=e...050904,-117.090483&spn=0.030863,0.077162&z=14

 

[nursebeeme]

was just looking at bug's map... kit carson is right on the way to his parent's home. (if he would have been looking for an alibi for why he was headed that way/way of kit carson park)

 

[nursebeeme]

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-amber-dubois-search,0,2295221.story
Searchers have found a sack in the southern reaches of the park, but it's not immediately clear if it's the one in question, and detectives have yet to open it, Carter said.

another source also reported that the bag was found in the same area the boys had described (^link upstream^)

Here is a map of the southern region of the park: @ mick: anything ring a bell here?

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=e....07296,-117.064015&spn=0.006635,0.015417&z=17

note there is a shopping mall at the southern end of the park, a lake of some sort, and also ballfields to the right of the southern reaches (could the boys have played there/entered park there?)

 

[coastal]

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=kit+carson+park+escondido&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&hq=Kit+Carson+Park&hnear=Kit+Carson+Park,+Escondido,+CA+92025&ll=33.060804,-117.107821&spn=0.00419,0.006427&t=h&z=17

Here's a link to a Google map of Lake Wohlford. There are some photos in the left margin of this page; the second and third photos show pretty well what this area is like:
http://maps.google.com/maps?rlz=1C1... wohlford, ca&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl

 

[gaia227]

Edit: I started this yesterday and just now got back to finishing it up, sort of. Big development about the bag. Is this merely coincidental that a mere few days after Gardner is arrested LE locates a bag which could potentiall be linked to Amber? Maybe there is a possibility Gardner is giving them some info??

I re-read Amber's entry on Charley Project today. The two most mysterious things about her disappearence (for me) are the teenager and the phone. I know these points have been examined and re-examined here.

The teenager she was seen walking with - there is a pretty detailed description of him right down to what he was wearing. If he was a fellow classmate then why would he not come forward to police or school officials and say he is the one who was seen with her that morning? Amber is described as pretty shy and quiet. Did she have any guy friends she hung out with? Would it be normal for Amber to be walking and talking with a male classmate or was she too shy to walk and chat with a male school acquaintence especially at 6 feet tall was likely a couple grades ahead of her?
Now that I have seen Gardner is it possible from a distance he could be confused as a teenager? Especially if he was wearing a hat.....

And of course the phone. I would love to know if LE knows why the person who turned her phone on and tried to access her voicemail was not able to get in. It seems strange this person only tried once and then never tried again. The haunting thought of it being Amber would mean she was still alive the next day and being held by against her will somewhere. However if Amber got a moment to check her VM (this being dependent on her being held captive) wouldn't she call 911 instead of checking VM?

I have been looking through the Charley Project looking for missing girls in the vicinity and within the timeline of when and were Amber and Chelsea went mising from.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mohamed_marisa.html (Missing since February 2008, not many details, 18yrs old/only 5'1/could be mistaken for being younger, Concord, CA about 1hr15min)

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/o/olvera_sheyla.html (Missing since 2009, 18yrs old/ a little further away at about 140miles from escond.)

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/hernandez_claudia.html (listed as a run away but as we all know LE is quick to come to that conclusion sometimes. Claudia lived 38 minutes outside of Escondido)

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/lopez_celine.html (13yr old endangered runaway about an hour from Escondido)

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mazariegos_diana.html 15yr old endangered runaway, missing since 2006, living about an hour and a half away

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mills_mellisa.html (endangered runaway, 16yrs old, missing since 2008, 1hr15min away)

There are several more i am sure as I have only made it through the 'M''s. As you can tell I have a lot of time on my hands while I am supposed to be 'working'.......

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

Do we know where JG lived on the map?
Just wondering how close he was to the park.i

JG lived just south of Lake Hodges on Matinal Road (you can see the address in one of the photos from the local paper), very short walk or run to Lake Hodges.

I am familiar with this whole area because of where I work and I can tell you that anyone familiar with this area knows Kit Carson is a hop skip and jump away from Lake Hodges - they are very close together. And if he was living on Rock Springs Road in Escondido, he was also very close to Kit Carson, Amber's school and access to the freeway heading only a very short distance south to his mother's house. In fact, traffic can be very heavy in that area, it's where the carpool lanes end/begin and anyone, like myself, traveling through there would take Center City Parkway as a better alternative to the 15.

Kit Carson is a meeting point for a couple north county running groups and it's very well known. Also, I think it's San Pasquale High School, that is also right near Kit Carson and all the kids come out and hang there and at the mall after school gets out. The mall is right off the same exit as Kit Carson park. He was looking for high school girls, it seems, hence the time Chelsea was killed.

 

[passionflower]

thank you travelingbug for all your hard and very professional work on this map!

----------------

Here is the link to bug's map of Chelsea's case which also has all of Amber's pertinent locations on it as well. I got her permission to post it here. Again, thanks Bug.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=e...050904,-117.090483&spn=0.030863,0.077162&z=14

thanks I just saw new map of TBUG's and it answered my questions!

83,000 RSO just in CA alone!!! Come on folks................DP and LWOP!!!
They cannot change.........On seeking justice on Vinnie's show at HLN!!!!

 

[passionflower]

several of the media sources are wording it now as the finding of "a" bag.. and not sure if it is "the" same bag and that they have not opened it yet.

That being said, this is the same LE who (upon getting the tip last night and starting the search early this morning) told a media source that they were clearing brush out of kit carson park so predators wouldn't have a place to hide at ten o'clock this morning. (^link upstream^)

hmmmmmmmmm, sounds very odd to me..........like just pick up a bag and not peak in? They could tape off area and SEARCH if the LE knew what was in the bag.........something is HINKY to me..............

 

[passionflower]

Are the FBI involved in searching for Amber???

 

[nursebeeme]

passion,
It was reported in MSM that fbi was at the 30 person search today (multi agency). FBI being one of the agencies.

 

[Lipin One]

Are the FBI involved in searching for Amber???

From cbs8.com: "ESCONDIDO, Calif. (AP) — Police are investigating a bag found in a park north of San Diego in connection with a girl who vanished about a year ago in the same region where 17-year-old Chelsea King disappeared last week.

Escondido police Lt. Craig Carter says 30 members of local agencies and the FBI are searching Friday in Kit Carson Park in response to a report received Thursday night. Fourteen-year-old Amber Dubois vanished while walking to Escondido High School in February 2009.

Carter says that last May three children told their parents about finding what looked like human hair in a bag in the park but the parents didn't think it significant at the time."

That's an excerpt from the article.

MO is that the authorities wouldn't call out a 30 member search party, if they only had a bag with hair. They had to peek and decide it was worth persuing.

 

[coastal]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/05/kit-carson-park-amber-dubois-search/?imw=Y

>>snip

...

...Escondido police interviewed the three girls, one age 9 and two 11, and brought them to the park Thursday night, where they pointed out the bag, which Carter described as plastic and shredded.

He said no hair was found in it, but there are other bags and “items of interest” on the ground in the area, and those are being searched. Carter said investigators expect to be at the site until dark, when it will be secured overnight...

(article continues with photos)

<<<snip

 

[Mick]

another source also reported that the bag was found in the same area the boys had described (^link upstream^)

Here is a map of the southern region of the park: @ mick: anything ring a bell here?

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=e....07296,-117.064015&spn=0.006635,0.015417&z=17

note there is a shopping mall at the southern end of the park, a lake of some sort, and also ballfields to the right of the southern reaches (could the boys have played there/entered park there?)

Yes, if this area is water, then there is resemblance to this area around this smaller body of water...

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=e...074014,-117.064768&spn=0.000935,0.002545&z=19

I would think around the bit of land sticking back into the lake on the right end. might look a lot like it. But there are so many similar looking areas around the various lakes, it is very difficult to tell.

 

[TravelingBug]

Hair would likely not still be in a bag because a bird or animal would probably use it for nest building, etc., but local news is definitely saying at the top of the hour the last few hours that it was due to believe connections to the Amber Dubois case (although this article is sort of downplaying that (though this is one local station that was talking about the belief this is related to Amber's case somehow)

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...igators-Search-Kit-Carson-Park--86646937.html

<snip>

The children made the discovery nine months ago and recalled it in light of the Chelsea King story. One of the children's parents immediately called police.

Thursday night, police secured an area near a pond in a wooded section of the park along a waterway and waited for daylight to further investigate the scene.

Escondido police called in a huge showing of search and rescue personnel including the sheriff's underwater search and recovery team. They found a sack in the southern reaches of the park, but said there was nothing inside.

"From what we understand, they don't feel it's going to be a body of any type. Because if it was, being this close to a snack shack where everybody has a party every weekend, someone would've noticed it by now," said Amber's father Maurice Luque.

A lot of other bags were found in the area, indicating transient camping. As long as all the resources were deployed -- boats, divers, search and rescue volunteers -- Escondido police said they would widen the search to see if anything useful turns up.

<snip>

Police said they were planning to start canvassing the neighborhood again to search for leads in the case.

 

[chicagofa13]

thanks I just saw new map of TBUG's and it answered my questions!

83,000 RSO just in CA alone!!! Come on folks................DP and LWOP!!!
They cannot change.........On seeking justice on Vinnie's show at HLN!!!!

ITA.

Off topic a little, IIRC there are 600 people on Death Row in California. They are more likely to die of old age or prison warfare than a needle.

 

[passionflower]

While we were off line I was searching around the news.............
the FBI is draining a pond in the park................
pictures showed a table of evience (not shown) with a lady taking LE photos and
a brown paper bags near.
please don't ask for a link, it was the san diego newspaper I believe.
that was 1-2 hours ago............

 

[passionflower]

We had a scanner thread for Chelsea.............can we find one for Amber?
Would we use the same scanner area????
Thanks

 

[passionflower]

ITA.

Off topic a little, IIRC there are 600 people on Death Row in California. They are more likely to die of old age or prison warfare than a needle.

O/T but why keep them on deathrow forever?
Death should be death to me.
Especally in the case like Chelsea with DNA and so many attempted
rapes and kidnapping.
3 strikes and you be dead.............put it out there for all perverts! JMOO

 

[Mick]

From what I'm seeing on this map, even the closest end might provide an area similar to what I was 'seeing':

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=105214839277198153112.000480c3d41935b598566&t=h&ll=33.073992,-117.064768&spn=0.000935,0.002545&z=19

 

[Mick]

From what I see on the other lake, not being sure which lake they draining or looking around, the closest end to this lake may also afford a similar scene:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=105214839277198153112.000480c3d41935b598566&t=h&ll=33.072412,-117.062735&spn=0.000935,0.002545&z=19

From the map, it looks to me as if there coiuld be several places where such a view might be had. But from just the maps, I cannot be sure. There are no total "ah ha" moments in looking just at the maps, but only possibilities.