CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #9

[MsBetsy]

I respectfully disagree. He is explaining to the world what he did once she went missing. "Hollered, waved my arms, turned over rocks."

I've never heard "turning over rocks" as a figure of speech. If you can show an example where someone else has used it as a figure of speech, I'd be grateful.

He also states he walked to a "cave" which it's possible he did (it's pictured in the SAR photos). Why would he stick a metaphor into this? And what does this metaphor refer to? What was he actually doing for the three hours between the time he last saw her and when LE showed up?

I suppose it could be his metaphor (his personal metaphor) for "looking everywhere" but again, the real information that he needed to get out would be "I looked up HH Road for a while, shouting and hollering; then I went back to where I last saw her and then I went to that little cave we'd seen earlier; she wasn't in any of those places, so I went back to HH Road again.) Etc.



Absolutely not. And one of the clues we have about dissembling/deception is that actual information is left out and empty metaphors are used instead. So he sounds busy, right? But it's three hours and he doesn't try to wave down help, doesn't use his phone to call the visitor center at Kelso Depot, doesn't go north and south on the road to the other parking areas that he knows are there (all the while leaving the RV open and cooled in case she comes back, right?)

Terrible decision making, but also very strange explanations afterwards, compared to other speeches of families of missing persons. Typically, families will talk to whoever will listen and try really hard to give facts that will aid in locating the person (or the perps who took them, if they think that's the case). The fact that no one could have known beer was in her cup (pointed out by a WS post on this thread) is just another example. But more important, he doesn't give time of day (if your spouse is abducted and you want to find her, you want witnesses to come forward, right?)

Well, the phrase is actually "turned every stone," but I don't think he mentioned that in the interview with the media, when he talked about calling her and waving his arms.
I think it was something he said to someone which was relayed to someone else.
I had not thought about that before, but maybe he did say that and it was taken literally. It makes a lot more sense than him looking underneath rocks in the desert to look for evidence. Imo

 

[HongKongPhooey]

The timing of the 911 call at 3.30pm-ish. If RT claimed Barb had been missing an hour... I'm wondering if they had lunch at all? I mean I know they went for their walk. But they'd been travelling since 8am or thereabouts. You'd want sustenance, no? Before setting off? And give it time to settle maybe. If you ate at 12 that could still give you an hour or more walk time before he says she goes missing. I'm just wondering if there were any signs in the camper of lunch having been eaten. From what locals have said about the cholla and heat, its hardly a picnic location.

ETA - should clarify that I'm curious about signs of normality not lunch habits!

 

[RANCH]

You don't know that. You don't know what he did or didn't do.
You are basing your assumptions on a couple of edited interviews. Others besides me have made the point that he may have said a lot more that wasn't included. He will also have given a fuller account to the police.

You're correct we don't know everything that RT said. We also don't know everything he may have done to search for BT or if he attempted to get help from passerby's.

Until we learn more from LE all of the posts stating that RT didn't do certain things are just an assumption. JMO.

 

[MsBetsy]

You don't know that. You don't know what he did or didn't do.
You are basing your assumptions on a couple of edited interviews. Others besides me have made the point that he may have said a lot more that wasn't included. He will also have given a fuller account to the police.

He must have said a great deal more to police. Didn't he say they interviewed him for about five hours?
Yet LE made no mention of any "holes" in his story, or an unexplained time gap, or any of the other statements they often make when they suspect someone.
In fact it was after that that they said they do not suspect foul play.
If they did suspect him, I can't imagine that they would not serve any warrants to search his home, the RV, and cell phone and computer data.
It has been over two months and there is no evidence of a crime and no suggestion of a criminal investigation.
All we have is suspicious or weird behavior.
That's hardly enough to say conclusively that he must be a suspect.
Imo

 

[Nerissa]

He must have said a great deal more to police. Didn't he say they interviewed him for about five hours?
Yet LE made no mention of any "holes" in his story, or an unexplained time gap, or any of the other statements they often make when they suspect someone.
In fact it was after that that they said they do not suspect foul play.
If they did suspect him, I can't imagine that they would not serve any warrants to search his home, the RV, and cell phone and computer data.
It has been over two months and there is no evidence of a crime and no suggestion of a criminal investigation.
All we have is suspicious or weird behavior.
That's hardly enough to say conclusively that he must be a suspect.
Imo

Would we always know, without fail, if LE had been granted search warrants - are there circumstances wherein that is not public knowledge - ?

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Statement analysis is not allowed at Websleuths. Posts/responses related to that area of discussion are removed.

 

[MsBetsy]

Would we always know, without fail, if LE had been granted search warrants - are there circumstances wherein that is not public knowledge - ?

Not in any case I have ever seen. It is usually public record and the media can request the information from LE. There have been many requests to the media to do this and so far we have heard nothing.
Imo

 

[Nerissa]

Not in any case I have ever seen. It is usually public record and the media can request the information from LE. There have been many requests to the media to do this and so far we have heard nothing.
Imo

Thanks

 

[Sillybilly]

It would be a violation of professional ethics.

If the persons involved ever give permission for me to use the data obtained in a publication, I still won't mention who they are or how I got the information, so it won't be reporting and it won't fit the ToS here.

ADMIN NOTE:

If you can't link it or mention it, then don't discuss it. It is considered baiting to indicate "I know something you don't know and I can't tell you".

Other than VIs, members are not allowed to state information as fact without providing MSM/LE or scholarly links to the source of the information.

 

[Nerissa]

Well, we don't know what the reason given was. They can't provide information they don't have.
It can be denied if it is a national security concern, or in some cases if it jeopardizes an investigation.
The public has a right to know certain information (Freedom of information act) and I would think a judge would have to determine whether or not information should be released to the public. (When the media makes a request and it's denied)

But usually typical things like warrants for cell phone data or for searching a suspects home are available.
Even in high profile cases there is usually some information the public can access.
And so far this is just a missing persons investigation, not a criminal investigation. Unless they have some reason to keep that secret too. Imo

Okay thanks!

Still interesting to me - LE are denying the release of something - but who knows what?

 

[MsBetsy]

Okay thanks!

Still interesting to me - LE are denying the release of something - but who knows what?

Yes, it is interesting and also very frustrating that we know so little!
There are other people who must know more about accessing public information and the legal aspects.
Maybe they can give us more information.
I know some posters are also good at finding the court records themselves.
Imo

 

[10ofRods]

Well, we don't know what the reason given was. They can't provide information they don't have.
It can be denied if it is a national security concern, or in some cases if it jeopardizes an investigation.
The public has a right to know certain information (Freedom of information Act) and I would think a judge would have to determine whether or not information should be released to the public. (When the media makes a request and it's denied)

But usually typical things like warrants for cell phone data or for searching a suspects home are available.
Even in high profile cases there is usually some information the public can access.
And so far this is just a missing persons investigation, not a criminal investigation. Unless they have some reason to keep that secret too. Imo

Which is why I worry, a little, about the state of the investigation. OTOH, it's quite possible that RT let them look at his phone voluntarily. If so, then his timeline of events and places probably checks out (that is my working assumption until we hear otherwise).

The only "news" that indicates that LE ever went to RT's house comes from FB.

Thing is, the search warrant would have to be taken out in Arizona. We need someone who is familiar with how to get access to public documents in AZ. I'm only familiar with California.

The demise of regular journalism is really noticeable in this one (as in most cases in Northern Arizona and in San Bernardino County).

Sadly, it's possible that no search warrants have gone out (for example, for the GPS on the truck). And it's also possible that even the cell records weren't obtained. If that's true, then LE is apparently treating this as desert misadventure. Eventually, some more information will come out, even if it's "negative" info (lack of search warrants). Anyway, the warrants would almost certainly be filed in the jurisdiction where the house and truck actually reside (and the owner of same resides).

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Witness Protection?

 

[Yvettea]

Witness Protection?

Is the witness generally “killed off” before they’re put in protection?

 

[iscaremyself]

Is the witness generally “killed off” before they’re put in protection?

like with epstein?

 

[MsBetsy]

like with epstein?

Who is that?
I highly doubt there are any witnesses in witness protection in this case.

 

[RANCH]

Who is that?
I highly doubt there are any witnesses in witness protection in this case.

That's right. There is no reason why anyone involved in this case is in the witness protection program.

I have no idea where that is coming from. JMO

 

[debbiegarcia36]

MOO is it sounded literal when dbdb11’s sister wrote:
“he said he keeps returning to the spot where he lost her and overturning rocks and searching and searching hoping to find something.”

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, Bullhead City, hiking wearing bikini in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019

My thoughts go to the idiom "leave no stone unturned" - i.e. to do everything possible to find something or to solve a problem.

 

[al66pine]

MisPers Investigation or Criminal Investigation?

....And so far this is just a missing persons investigation, not a criminal investigation. Unless they have some reason to keep that secret too. Imo

@MsBetsy Thanks for your post. sbm bbm. Looks like it could be a CrimInv now imo.
From sheriff's office bbm:
SUMMARY:
UPDATE - Monday, July 22, 2019
The ongoing daily searches for Barbara Thomas in the Mohave National Preserve have been suspended. Additional searches will be conducted as any additional information is developed in the investigation.
Detectives from the Specialized Investigations Division have assumed the investigation as is standard department policy when a missing person has not been located.
The investigation is ongoing and anyone with information is asked to contact Detective Nicholas Clark, Specialized Investigations Division (909) 387-3589. Callers wishing to remain anonymous are urged to contact the We-Tip Hotline at 1-800-78-CRIME (27463) or www.wetip.com.
^^^^^ July 22nd - The investigation continues into the whereabouts of missing person Barbara Thomas from SBSD - Colorado River Sheriffs Department : Nixle

 

[Lilibet]

My thoughts go to the idiom "leave no stone unturned" - i.e. to do everything possible to find something or to solve a problem.

I think the idiom interpretation is certainly possible. Or he was literally overturning rocks looking for small clues out of desperation.

I think we have to keep in mind that RT’s conversation with family quoted here by @dbdb11 is to the best of her recollection by her own admission (days later) and in her own words. We can’t really glean a totally accurate or literal accounting of time, speech or actions by RT from this account. Unfortunately, the interviews we have on film are also edited and incomplete. So we don’t have a lot to go on except a few words, actions and inaction...open to interpretation.
JMO