CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #11

[zwiebel]

Thanks tlcox for posting those. Am going to read them now but just wanted to add that I asked Mr Zwiebel to help me out making sense of the loans to AH. Mr Z is not an accountant or attorney or anything like that, but he does do amazing things with computers that make millions of dollars appear and disappear all over the place (not into our account, sadly, or I'd buy my new roof).

He ended up snatching my computer and reading through AH's deposition. He's disgusted and dumbfounded. He says there's no figure he can possibly come up with for exactly what was loaned/paid back. He says, in his opinion, AH was just playing games there.
If Mr Zwiebel can't make sense of it, it doesn't make sense, as far as I'm concerned.

So I'm just going to take a wild guess - I think AH probably gained a million dollars, maybe more, from Bob over the years. Well worth changing his name for.

But what still bugs me - maybe it's okay in court to be vague about one/two hundred thousand dollars you can't recall you were gifted. But was that kind of answer really acceptable to the IRS on a tax return?

 

[zwiebel]

96 pages! Goodbye, I will be gone some time...........

 

[zwiebel]

I'm back. I really, really annoy myself sometimes. Those 'all new'' 96 pages I set off to read were all actually stuff I read before, but I hadn't scrolled down far enough and missed pages at the bottom. Someone kick me, will ya?
But what I missed was interesting. Off again for a consultation to see if I can finally make sense of the AH/Bob finances.

 

[Cubby]

Thanks tlcox for posting those. Am going to read them now but just wanted to add that I asked Mr Zwiebel to help me out making sense of the loans to AH. Mr Z is not an accountant or attorney or anything like that, but he does do amazing things with computers that make millions of dollars appear and disappear all over the place (not into our account, sadly, or I'd buy my new roof).

He ended up snatching my computer and reading through AH's deposition. He's disgusted and dumbfounded. He says there's no figure he can possibly come up with for exactly what was loaned/paid back. He says, in his opinion, AH was just playing games there.
If Mr Zwiebel can't make sense of it, it doesn't make sense, as far as I'm concerned.

So I'm just going to take a wild guess - I think AH probably gained a million dollars, maybe more, from Bob over the years. Well worth changing his name for.

But what still bugs me - maybe it's okay in court to be vague about one/two hundred thousand dollars you can't recall you were gifted. But was that kind of answer really acceptable to the IRS on a tax return?

BBM. It's the same shell game that's been played with the timeline. The only way AH could really not remember that much financial information is if he were in a 10+ year black out and I don't think that's the case here.

Where is Bob? :furious:

 

[tlcya]

Thanks tlcox for posting those. Am going to read them now but just wanted to add that I asked Mr Zwiebel to help me out making sense of the loans to AH. Mr Z is not an accountant or attorney or anything like that, but he does do amazing things with computers that make millions of dollars appear and disappear all over the place (not into our account, sadly, or I'd buy my new roof).

He ended up snatching my computer and reading through AH's deposition. He's disgusted and dumbfounded. He says there's no figure he can possibly come up with for exactly what was loaned/paid back. He says, in his opinion, AH was just playing games there.
If Mr Zwiebel can't make sense of it, it doesn't make sense, as far as I'm concerned.

So I'm just going to take a wild guess - I think AH probably gained a million dollars, maybe more, from Bob over the years. Well worth changing his name for.

But what still bugs me - maybe it's okay in court to be vague about one/two hundred thousand dollars you can't recall you were gifted. But was that kind of answer really acceptable to the IRS on a tax return?

Glad I wasn't the only one who could not make and sort of sense of exactly how much AH had received in loans, etc from his granddad.

 

[believe09]

I can't tell you how much I wish the guilty party would confess. Just stand up and say I did it, I couldn't stand it anymore or it was an accident or I wanted the money.
Just CONFESS.

But that is not going to happen. For whatever reason, maybe an unrealistic expectation of never being found out or perhaps thinking that 'he' deserved it, there will be no confession, no cleansing of the soul.

Too bad. But Placentia police and WS members will keep plodding along, sorting out
the why's and wherefores.

The family seems to like money, wondering if there was available cash in the house.

And evidence, I agree with LostOldUserName.

Dreamweaver, :blowkiss:

You always seem to know when we need you. For our newer posters, dream is one of the people who started this all.

 

[believe09]

Does anyone have any idea if the accounting was EVER provided or are they STILL stalling on that?

The settlement agreement reached during mediation called for a biennial (every two years) accounting to the court.

Regardless, the agreement was filed with the court on May 10, 2010 so there was an accounting due before the court this May past.

And don't even get me started on section e. wherein the Gimme group was to provide Fontelle with an accounting on the trust every 6 months. Has she EVER received one??

This is a joke, and not a funny one.

You just honed right in on the question I have been pondering since 2010. And given the frequency set by the court, how many accountings have actually been provided and have ANY of them included July- Dec 2009.

IIRC, the answer is no. There has been nothing provided for the year Bob disappeared-this is year end accounting, tax forms, bank earnings, capital gains and losses, WITHDRAWALS prior to the co conservators being appointed.

 

[believe09]

But what still bugs me - maybe it's okay in court to be vague about one/two hundred thousand dollars you can't recall you were gifted. But was that kind of answer really acceptable to the IRS on a tax return?

From zwiebel's post-Bingo.

Wait a minute-I need a legal eagle. If Andrew didnt quitclaim the house back to the trust, cough Aunts, until 4/25/12, does anyone think he was claiming his mortgage deduction for the years in between Bob's disappearance/AH's default and the time he quitclaimed the house back?

Hypothetically, could he still claim mortgage payments he wasnt making if he still, technically, owned the house?

 

[mikkismom]

From zwiebel's post-Bingo.

Wait a minute-I need a legal eagle. If Andrew didnt quitclaim the house back to the trust, cough Aunts, until 4/25/12, does anyone think he was claiming his mortgage deduction for the years in between Bob's disappearance/AH's default and the time he quitclaimed the house back?

Hypothetically, could he still claim mortgage payments he wasnt making if he still, technically, owned the house?

He should have gotten a 1099(?) with the amount of interest he actually paid. I actually had a house that was in my Mom's name (I was in the middle of a divorce.) I actually made the mortgage payments - but the 1099 came in my Mom's name so I could not claim the deduction.

jmo

 

[zwiebel]

My thanks button isn't working! That's an absolute nightmare for an English person. I can't post if I can't say thank you, so can all posters please believe my thanks have been posted beneath their posts MANY times, even if they can't see them.

 

[Cubby]

He should have gotten a 1099(?) with the amount of interest he actually paid. I actually had a house that was in my Mom's name (I was in the middle of a divorce.) I actually made the mortgage payments - but the 1099 came in my Mom's name so I could not claim the deduction.

jmo

How would that work with private financing such as in the case with Bob?

 

[zwiebel]

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-1099-form.htm
For those like me, who didn't know what a 1099 was. My thanks button is working now, sorry about the panic.

 

[tlcya]

From zwiebel's post-Bingo.

Wait a minute-I need a legal eagle. If Andrew didnt quitclaim the house back to the trust, cough Aunts, until 4/25/12, does anyone think he was claiming his mortgage deduction for the years in between Bob's disappearance/AH's default and the time he quitclaimed the house back?

Hypothetically, could he still claim mortgage payments he wasnt making if he still, technically, owned the house?

IANAL but I am pretty sure if you claim that deduction you must file the appropriate schedule (A) and supporting documentation (form 1098). Guess I better be checking with IRS website.

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p530/ar02.html

Where To Deduct Home Mortgage Interest

Enter on Schedule A (Form 1040), line 10, the home mortgage interest and points reported to you on Form 1098 (discussed next). If you did not receive a Form 1098, enter your deductible interest on line 11, and any deductible points on line 12. See Table 1 for a summary of where to deduct home mortgage interest and real estate taxes.

If you paid home mortgage interest to the person from whom you bought your home, show that person's name, address, and social security number (SSN) or employer identification number (EIN) on the dotted lines next to line 11. The seller must give you this number and you must give the seller your SSN. Form W-9, Request for Taxpayer Identification Number and Certification, can be used for this purpose. Failure to meet either of these requirements may result in a $50 penalty for each failure.

Here's the link.

 

[believe09]

IANAL but I am pretty sure if you claim that deduction you must file the appropriate schedule (A) and supporting documentation (form 1098). Guess I better be checking with IRS website.

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p530/ar02.html

Where To Deduct Home Mortgage Interest

Enter on Schedule A (Form 1040), line 10, the home mortgage interest and points reported to you on Form 1098 (discussed next). If you did not receive a Form 1098, enter your deductible interest on line 11, and any deductible points on line 12. See Table 1 for a summary of where to deduct home mortgage interest and real estate taxes.

If you paid home mortgage interest to the person from whom you bought your home, show that person's name, address, and social security number (SSN) or employer identification number (EIN) on the dotted lines next to line 11. The seller must give you this number and you must give the seller your SSN. Form W-9, Request for Taxpayer Identification Number and Certification, can be used for this purpose. Failure to meet either of these requirements may result in a $50 penalty for each failure.

Here's the link.

Well then-if you private financier was not available to dispute the deduction, he could have.

Not saying that he did. This is purely hypothetical.

Now the co conservators could have opted to verify his payment/interest deduction or perhaps stay silent about it I would think?

Not saying it did happen-just exploring the flexibility of these rules when it comes to a conservatorship situation.

 

[tlcya]

Well then-if you private financier was not available to dispute the deduction, he could have.

Not saying that he did. This is purely hypothetical.

Now the co conservators could have opted to verify his payment/interest deduction or perhaps stay silent about it I would think?

Not saying it did happen-just exploring the flexibility of these rules when it comes to a conservatorship situation.

I think you are correc. I imagine that if someone used the second option listed (provide nam, social, etc of seller/mortgage holder and he was dead, then neither mortgage holder or IRS could really dispute it without the active asistance and maybe even prompting by the conservators.

And it is my theory that the aunts would not challenge it. AH could open up a whole can of scrutiny aimed back at them, regarding the trust and family secrets that must surely exist if they murdered Bob.

This family is quite something.

 

[zwiebel]

FWIW, My dear GF was behind on his nursing home bill. We had to come up with a lot of $ to catch it up. He sent us to his house and told us where his 'stash' was - $11K in gold, silver and coins UNDER THE BEDROOM DRESSER!!! We cashed it in and paid the bill. He told the staff that it had been buried in his backyard. :waitasec: We now joke about people in 'scrubs' searching his backyard at night with a metal detector. :floorlaugh:

Older people tend to hide 'valuables' at home. DGF was 'saving' for his retirement years. We reminded him that this WAS his 'retirement years'. He is in his 80s!

jmo moo etc.

Mikkismom, hope your grandpa is okay, by the way. I hate the thought of elders running out of money for their care. He sounds a wiley old fox though.....(Lol).

 

[zwiebel]

I think you are correc. I imagine that if someone used the second option listed (provide nam, social, etc of seller/mortgage holder and he was dead, then neither mortgage holder or IRS could really dispute it without the active asistance and maybe even prompting by the conservators.

And it is my theory that the aunts would not challenge it. AH could open up a whole can of scrutiny aimed back at them, regarding the trust and family secrets that must surely exist if they murdered Bob.

This family is quite something.

I cannot help thinking that IRS should be looking at this family and their financial affairs, as well as LE.

I also think it is worth noting that AH was not alone in signing off all these deals - he had a co-signatory.

 

[believe09]

I apologize for not acknowledging all of the personal stories people are sharing-I get so wound up by the ideas, I fail to mention how much they touch me.

:blowkiss:

o/t

Dreamweaver went to the mat for Bob's daughters. Dream did a ton of heavy lifting for them, in fact moved mountains for them. Dream remained determined and objective even when the rest of us were getting that hinky feeling. This is one of the many things worth admiring about Dreamweaver and every contribution made on these threads.

Just a shout out...

 

[mikkismom]

Mikkismom, hope your grandpa is okay, by the way. I hate the thought of elders running out of money for their care. He sounds a wiley old fox though.....(Lol).

Thank you. He is doing fine (except that he watches C-Span everyday and gets angry!) He worked 12hrs. a day for 40+years - saving for his retirement. He didn't want to use his 'nest egg' until we convinced him that these expenses are what his nest egg was for! I think, for him, using that money was admitting his age. He is a very wise and strong-willed man. He doesn't like that there are things he can't do anymore. My grandmother joined my mother in Heaven two years ago. My stepmother found new love while in her 60s :great:. I would love for my GF to find the kind of love that Bob did in these later years.

jmo

 

[zwiebel]

believe09, that is just so moving. I don't know if it's any help but......I never give up. I've been here before and I can shout really loud if I have to and I've called out those I love, and lost them, because of a murderer in the family.
People like you and dreamweaver and Cubby and Angelo and cloudajo and Montjoy ( yeah, I see you, though you don't say much) and.....just all of you, you brought me and others here, and I can only bow down to your efforts to keep Bob's candle aflame, and hope we can follow your shining examples. X

ETA believe09, I have managed to miss out your quote, post #138 from this. I am an idiot. But I'm an idiot who means well!