CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #12

[zwiebel]

That was my impression of the rules of a trust too, but it's a horribly complicated subject. i thought when a person makes one and puts a property into it, that includes the contents too. But I'm really not certain.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Well, also there were numerous comments about Bob's alleged skinflintyness, including how he had turned off their mother's internet access because he did not like technology and also that he never went to the dr or dentist because it was too expensive. But wasn't he retired USMC? Wouldn't he have had those things paid for?

I'm sorry but those women posting made their dad sound like some tyrant when I simply see a guy who, like my parents, were products of the Depression and were just frugal.

Again, JMO.

 

[zwiebel]

I agree, but I thought the reasoning behind the "borrowed" items listed, was a way of obtaining the possessions with out having to pay probate later on? (For the value) or for removing them from the estate if the rest of the list wasn't adhered to by the courts.

Why empty the house? That is the question that i would like answering. Wouldn't you want it to remain the same in case he came back?

My understanding of a trust though, is that everything should remain intact?

I keep going back to the court documents, IMO the only people who know the whereabouts of bh, are his family.

Don't forget the watchfulneighbour who thinks Bob is being held prisoner in his own home......

 

[FrayedKnot]

Just to clarify, and someone please correct me if I'm mistaken, but I believe that it wasn't that JM was going to buy bedding for Bob on the day that he disappeared, but she **drove dth (down the hill) from Running Springs the day after he went missing**, without her hubby (who, presumably, was unconcerned about leaving his 'repairs' unfinished and about the safety of his wife).

I guess it's a normal reaction for some people: a parent goes missing, and your primary concern would be to replace his/her bedding the day after his housecleaner has visited.

Tell me that doesn't smell fishy.

You may be right. As I said, I tried to cram three years of posts into one day. I thought one sister claimed JM went down to the house that same day to replace those shabby sheets but maybe it WAS the next day. Either way.....weird. Esp since they have no love lost for FH.

 

[zwiebel]

Well, also there were numerous comments about Bob's alleged skinflintyness, including how he had turned off their mother's internet access because he did not like technology and also that he never went to the dr or dentist because it was too expensive. But wasn't he retired USMC? Wouldn't he have had those things paid for?

I'm sorry but those women posting made their dad sound like some tyrant when I simply see a guy who, like my parents, were products of the Depression and were just frugal.

Again, JMO.

And it all goes wonderland again...we have dentals for Bob, so he must have seen a dentist at sometime. And his doctor said Bob didn't have dementia (he couldn't have known that if he never saw him). Also, his friend P said he had been going to the doctor regularly. I wonder if his daughters saw enough of him to really know?

I agree with the frugal bit except; I think he was frugal with himself, and more than generous with certain other people.

 

[FrayedKnot]

And it all goes wonderland again...we have dentals for Bob, so he must have seen a dentist at sometime. And his doctor said Bob didn't have dementia (he couldn't have known that if he never saw him). Also, his friend P said he had been going to the doctor regularly. I wonder if his daughters saw enough of him to really know?

I agree with the frugal bit except; I think he was frugal with himself, and more than generous with certain other people.

Again, I am a total newbie to Bob's case.

I only posted because I was really bunched up over reading the " other side" and thought it needed saying.

Honestly, what the man did with HIS money is irrelevant to his disappearance....

Except maybe if some folks came within a "hair's breadth" of bilking the guy out of money they didn't have intentions of paying back.

Then I guess it matters.

 

[Cubby]

Welcome to Bob's thread, FrayedKnot and knt42! :welcome:

It's always nice to see new interest in Bob's case.

 

[noZme]

I've looked through all the photos I could find, and only saw two where Bob's belt was clearly visible. Both times were with FH (though looks like different times) and it appears to be the same belt; white, with the smooth look of leather as opposed to canvas, and with a rectangular, gold-coloured buckle. The buckle looks as though it may have a distinctive edge or edge pattern, but the photo would need to be blown up to confirm that.

ETA Link to pic. There is a clearer one but I can't link it at the moment.

I think it's likely the belt in these pics are one in the same (smooth white leather about 1 1/2 inches wide) & the big buckle is just decorative & slides on over the other. It is an eagle's head, silver or pewter with brass accents, cut-in edges on a background of either inlaid turquoise or enameling. It seems I remember him wearing bolo ties or else reading that he was fond of them so Southwestern must be his style.

Photos from newsprint that have been reproduced many times & are low resolution to begin with, are poor candidates to both enlarge & enhance, but here goes:

 

[Oriah]

Thanks noZme! You did good.
I did a little blow up myself investigating the buckle and it drew me to tack shops and tourist shops between Mr. Harrod's and-of all places- Las Vegas.
Now wondering if I should spend time trying to track down the purchase location.

(ETA: I think the eagle aspect may have also been appealing as a fond reminder of his days in the military.)

 

[believe09]

Good Morning everyone, and thank you for the new interest!! Bob's case, at least to me, isnt really that complicated although the probate/civil cases involving the trusts are.

The timelines provided by JuM, in her own words, seem to put her husband in the house when Bob disappeared. He was, apparently, the last know person to see him. There was a heated family meeting the day before where his children found out that he would be adding his new wife to his estate planning. Bob seems to have disappeared prior to being able to carry that out.

The actions of this family after his disappearance are nothing short of bizarre. There was an immediate attempt to grab control of his money, predicated by the desire to offer a reward...and offer which was made years later. YEARS. The venom began to spew within days in an attempt, IMO, to make their father so detestable, no one would ever bother to look for him. His grandson, who owed a shocking amount of money to Bob, immediately ceased payment on that debt. By his own deposition, this is an agreement he claims was to go into effect upon Bob's death. He stopped paying on the first day of August 2009, and never stock piled that money for the happy day when his grandfather returned.

And then there is the memorabilia list.

Thank you for the new twist on all of the borrowed goods, K!!! That makes perfect sense.

As to Bob giving money away prior to his disappearance, that was his money to give pure and simple. We know from PB's testimony that there were many outstanding family loans, all of which were well documented. Apparently there was no list of money simply given, or if there was it wasnt turned over as discovery during the trial with BL. A trial that got the Harrod daughters soundly spanked.

And then there is a transparent attempt to charge their step mother rent in her own home or reduce her stipend. Another hearing that they lost.

Rest assured that several of these judges see this case for what it is. A criminal case with civil/probate components. jmvho

 

[Oriah]

One of the things that makes me so sad about Mr. Harrod's case is that it will be solved through civil/probate cases associated with it.
Resolution is good, I suppose- no matter how it comes around- but persons missing under circumstances like these deserve much, much more in the way of prosecution of their disappearance. imo.

 

[noZme]

Thanks noZme! You did good.
I did a little blow up myself investigating the buckle and it drew me to tack shops and tourist shops between Mr. Harrod's and-of all places- Las Vegas.
Now wondering if I should spend time trying to track down the purchase location.

(ETA: I think the eagle aspect may have also been appealing as a fond reminder of his days in the military.)

Yep, eagles always have a patriotic connotation for me.

Not sure how one image posted as a thumbnail, but I was bleary-eyed from investigating belt buckles. Trust me, there are a bajillion photos on the web of those with turquoise + eagles..... hats off to anyone who can find that one! Actually, many are hand-crafted & while an artist may assemble similar designs, each is an original.

There are thousands of retailers who sell such items. I thought maybe it was a gift or something he picked up as a travel memento.

Sorry I am so negative this morning. I didn't sleep at all last night.

 

[zwiebel]

Thanks for the pics, noZme. That's the first time I've been able to see exactly what the ornate buckle was. You're right about the bolo ties; there's a picture of his collection in a drawer with one of the msm articles. I don't have the link immediately to hand, but it's in the same collection as the one showing Bob's slippers neatly by his bed.

The pictures with Bob and Fontelle do suggest Bob was favouring, and wearing white belts, right up until he disappeared. Nothing's certain of course, but any bit of information might help. Actually, I'm going back to find that bolo ties pic, just in case one of them matches that ornate belt - they were close-up photos.

 

[zwiebel]

Here's the link to the bolo ties pic. Pic number 7. They are beautifully clear, but it doesn't look like any are a match for that belt, sadly.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-214111--.html?pic=1

 

[zwiebel]

Can somebody local advise? Is that bolo tie buckle in the link a gold prospector's emblem? With a hammer, spade and gold nuggets?

just asking because I thought tracking down where Bob bought his bolo ties might be easier, and lead us to where he bought his belts, too.
Link again. pic 7.
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-214111--.html?pic=1

 

[noZme]

Thanks for the pics, noZme. That's the first time I've been able to see exactly what the ornate buckle was. You're right about the bolo ties; there's a picture of his collection in a drawer with one of the msm articles. I don't have the link immediately to hand, but it's in the same collection as the one showing Bob's slippers neatly by his bed.

The pictures with Bob and Fontelle do suggest Bob was favouring, and wearing white belts, right up until he disappeared. Nothing's certain of course, but any bit of information might help. Actually, I'm going back to find that bolo ties pic, just in case one of them matches that ornate belt - they were close-up photos.

You are most welcome & thank you for the conformation about bolos. It was vague in my memory.

I still think it's possible Mr Bob may have walked out the door on his own steam - enticed outdoors, led to an auto & then taken away. "Pops, ride with me to the store. You can wait in the car, I'll only be a minute." .... leaving no sign of a struggle or anything unusual in the house... except an unmade bed.

 

[believe09]

What an interesting collection of Bolo ties! I wonder if they were common attire in MO.

 

[believe09]

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...M0wAAAAIBAJ&sjid=09wFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1512,1900603

Bolo or string ties appear to be so popular that lawmakers wear them.

ETA: for those catching up on this story, Bob was originally from Missouri.

 

[zwiebel]

Does anyone think this old bolo buckle is very similar to the one in the pic of Bob's collection? i am beginning to wonder now if he was collecting antique buckles, rather than buying new from local stores.
http://www.rubylane.com/item/97248-rl2683/Mex78ican-Silver-Bolo-Tie-Best

The gold panning one is definitely that, I've decided. The pan is the buckle itself.

 

[Laughing]

OT:

The Bolo Tie is the State Tie of New Mexico.

(We also have a State Question, Red or Green? and a State Cookie, the Bizcochito.)

Yep. :seeya:

Laughing