CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #12

[Oriah]

I suspect it applies to some kind of medical waste. I am sure. I hope.

Yes, I understand it to refer to medical waste; something such as casts, artificial limbs, medical waste, medical amputations, that sort of thing. However I think there is also a stipulation in law in certain states that has an additional charge associated with disposal of a body or body part in a landfill? We do here (it falls under desecration, I think) but I am not sure of everywhere.
Perhaps one of our verified attorneys knows for sure?

the question about fabric- maybe we could do a little research on that? Great question, and would tell us what material we were likely working with.

 

[noZme]

Question: Aren't automobile GPS devices configured on a "loop"? By that I mean something similar to video recordings that run for a specific time then begin to record over the previous info..... Even if data was kept for 5000 miles, after so much time has passed, there may be no way to recover it...... Too bad at the beginning LE was not suspicious of the same people we were. Wsers can smell a rat a mile away!

Happy New Year to Mr Bob's peeps. May he come home in 2013.

 

[believe09]

Question: Aren't automobile GPS devices configured on a "loop"? By that I mean something similar to video recordings that run for a specific time then begin to record over the previous info..... Even if data was kept for 5000 miles, after so much time has passed, there may be no way to recover it...... Too bad at the beginning LE was not suspicious of the same people we were. Wsers can smell a rat a mile away!

Happy New Year to Mr Bob's peeps. May he come home in 2013.

Well it is funny you should bring that up, noZme-we had a case on here that was a MP out west. She was in a rented vehicle with OnStar. OnStar told LE that they loop the data, and they dont keep it. That is the standard response. With a little prodding, we found out that they do store the data much like cell phone providers store ping information. Since our MP hadnt disabled the OnStar, she could be found using the info.

 

[believe09]

subpoenas for cell phone records and the like really arent difficult to get in a MP/possible homicide investigation.

I think for sure they went after ping and IP info. That is easy and this is a dedicated detective.

 

[Oriah]

Question: Aren't automobile GPS devices configured on a "loop"? By that I mean something similar to video recordings that run for a specific time then begin to record over the previous info..... Even if data was kept for 5000 miles, after so much time has passed, there may be no way to recover it...... Too bad at the beginning LE was not suspicious of the same people we were. Wsers can smell a rat a mile away!

Happy New Year to Mr Bob's peeps. May he come home in 2013.

Yes, that's how I understand it as well.
But I think it is dependant on mileage- at least, ours is.:waitasec:
So what if a vehicle hasn't been driven much- it's GPS isn't rewriting until it hits its' preprogrammed mileage. Same with the memory on it's 'black box' which is really just a little computer inside a car that remembers stuff permanently, lol. So it's like a backup system to the GPS. (OnStar is a great example.)

I'm off on a tangent to try and find the GPS and black box systems of every known vehicle that was driven the day Mr. Harrod disappeared.

Happy New Year to you too, noZme. Thinking positive- we will bring Mr. Harrod home in 2013.

 

[zwiebel]

As far as I can see, cotton decomposes well, and quickly. Maybe in as little as five months. That's not good news for us.
A leather belt or shoes are better news though - maybe 50 years?
Plastic or polyester is best of all, you might find remains in 100 years.

If Bob was wearing his white outfit then I think we could be looking for a white leather belt and buckle, underwear and maybe socks, and remains of white trainers, either leather or plastic. Also, maybe the band from around a white hat, if not the hat?

Sad to say, if he was in pyjamas and/or dressing gown, I think there might not be much clothing remaining at all, given what Laughing posted earlier about cotton content in the US.
ETA Hats are felt. What is felt made of though?

 

[GrainneDhu]

Zweibel, here in the USA we have multiple levels of government (and they don't always play together well.)

I think that the tax threshold question is for the state of California only while the Federal Fiscal Cliff thingy covers all of us in all our states.

I'd rather think about how our intent to bring Bob home unites us and reaches across the globe to you!

Hope this helps,

Laughing

Heh, the states are united in two things: we all hate the federal government and we all love federal money.

 

[zwiebel]

I'd join in, but I'm still on a fiscal cliff edge, hanging onto a lame duck, not knowing which way to turn.

But just hoping someone, somewhere, has made a decision that goes in Mr and Mrs Harrod's favour, tax wise.

 

[Oriah]

As far as I can see, cotton decomposes well, and quickly. Maybe in as little as five months. That's not good news for us.
A leather belt or shoes are better news though - maybe 50 years?
Plastic or polyester is best of all, you might find remains in 100 years.

If Bob was wearing his white outfit then I think we could be looking for a white leather belt and buckle, underwear and maybe socks, and remains of white trainers, either leather or plastic. Also, maybe the band from around a white hat, if not the hat?

Sad to say, if he was in pyjamas and/or dressing gown, I think there might not be much clothing remaining at all, given what Laughing posted earlier about cotton content in the US.
ETA Hats are felt. What is felt made of though?

Respectfully, that's not entirely accurate. Most fabrics degrade in relation to the environmental conditions they are subjected to. Some certainly are heartier than others- but only under certain conditions. Soil, water, temperature, chemicals, and weather patterns play a large part in degredation.

In fact, the all-white description had me from the start- because I can't even imagine telling a search crew days after- if not months or years- to look out for white.
If mildew doesn't kick in, dirt will. If Mr. Harrod was wearing the white clothing, it's not white anymore kwim?

The belt- that's something we need to look for. Really, why do we not have a list of missing articles of clothing?? Frustrating.

 

[zwiebel]

Thanks Oriah. I can't understand the lack of firm detail either. Especially as the LE report said the house was cluttered, but tidy. It makes me think Bob would have stored his shoes and hats neatly and so it should have been possible to confirm those two items, at least.

I've been introduced to the wonders of the Sears catalogue and Laughter was right - all the cotton clothing I saw is 100 per cent cotton. All the men's pyjamas and dressing gowns are. I've no idea where Bob bought his clothing of course, but Sears may be a pretty good guide to the usual materials.

And the belt; Bob has got to have had a favourite belt. You can see a belt in many of the photographs and if the buckle was at all distinctive, that would help too. And a wallet and keyring description.

Maybe one day they will be forthcoming.

believe09, it looks like our tags are depleted. I thought you were joking about that. What's going to happen?

 

[believe09]

believe09, it looks like our tags are depleted. I thought you were joking about that. What's going to happen?

Respectfully snipped. Just making room for more-once the disappeared show is aired and the SSA and the hearing notes are made public, I suspect we will have a need for space. Each thread has a limited amount of tagging space.

 

[noZme]

I'm thinking Mr Bob may have been much like my grandfather who didn't reach far into his closet the last couple years of his wife's life & illness & then after he became widowed. He had clothes galore (many from birthday, Father's day & Christmas gifts) but preferred wearing comfy khakis & similarly colored shirts day to day. Of course, with the new romance in his life, it is likely Bob spiffed up his daily attire. The housekeeper may have some idea what went through the wash. I doubt
the daughters could give much accounting of their dad's wardrobe since they didn't see him for extended periods.

 

[Oriah]

I'm thinking Mr Bob may have been much like my grandfather who didn't reach far into his closet the last couple years of his wife's life & illness & then after he became widowed. He had clothes galore (many from birthday, Father's day & Christmas gifts) but preferred wearing comfy khakis & similarly colored shirts day to day. Of course, with the new romance in his life, it is likely Bob spiffed up his daily attire. The housekeeper may have some idea what went through the wash. I doubt
the daughters could give much accounting of their dad's wardrobe since they didn't see him for extended periods.

This is JMVHO

BBM: I suspect the same. People are mostly creatures of habit, and tend toward their comfort zone- especially when stressed (which it seems Mr. Harrod likely was when he disappeared. )

That's actually one of the reasons I assume the 'all-white' description is floating around out there, and very possibly inaccurate.
Moo, but when people are reporting missing persons, they tend to go instinctively by their last memory without realizing that the time frame may have changed- and of course then possibly the clothing of the MP.
We've all been over this before, of course- but a last seen description can really be a good and useful place to focus.

JeM saw him last. What was Mr. Harrod wearing- and what was JeM wearing? Not an amalgamation of what everyone was wearing, or a memory of what they last saw everyone in. Just a basic description.

*sigh* I'm frustrated again.

 

[zwiebel]

Certainly, all-white seems a bit of an odd choice to me, on the day when Bob knew repair work was being done, the CL was coming and he -presumably-would be pottering about and getting things ready for Mrs Harrod's return.

Also, all-white is pretty memorable. Also, I had a hard time finding a picture of Bob in a white shirt. He seemed to favour bright and cheerful ones.

 

[zwiebel]

I'm testing myself, we have had a lot of visitors today. I remember the clothes of people I know well, much better than the clothes of people I'd only just met. I remember men's shirts much better than their trousers or shoes. And little, distinctive details stick in my mind; for example, someone had slanting zips on their jacket.

I know this will seem strange, but someone who had a dog, I have no recall of their clothes at all. And the same for a man with a chainsaw too.

ETA, the chainsaw has a reasonable explanation, by the way!

 

[GrainneDhu]

I've been introduced to the wonders of the Sears catalogue and Laughter was right - all the cotton clothing I saw is 100 per cent cotton. All the men's pyjamas and dressing gowns are. I've no idea where Bob bought his clothing of course, but Sears may be a pretty good guide to the usual materials.

SBM

It suddenly strikes me that someone who lives in moderate or cool climates wouldn't realise that wearing polyester in a hot climate is like putting on a plastic bag. It gets hot and sticky-wet right away. Even 50% polyester/cotton feels like a plastic bag.

In a hot, dry climate, polyester is even worse. If you wear pure cotton in such climates, sweat dehydrates immediately and helps cool the body. But if you wear polyester or a poly/cotton mix, it can't evaporate so you are left feeling hotter and sticky.

Bob lived in California for so long, I'd be surprised if he wore poly/cotton shirts. Maybe trousers but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I'm testing myself, we have had a lot of visitors today. I remember the clothes of people I know well, much better than the clothes of people I'd only just met. I remember men's shirts much better than their trousers or shoes. And little, distinctive details stick in my mind; for example, someone had slanting zips on their jacket.

I know this will seem strange, but someone who had a dog, I have no recall of their clothes at all. And the same for a man with a chainsaw too.

ETA, the chainsaw has a reasonable explanation, by the way!

Heh, I never forget a dog, their name or their temperament but as to whatever may be on the other end of the leash, I have no idea.

 

[zwiebel]

I've looked through all the photos I could find, and only saw two where Bob's belt was clearly visible. Both times were with FH (though looks like different times) and it appears to be the same belt; white, with the smooth look of leather as opposed to canvas, and with a rectangular, gold-coloured buckle. The buckle looks as though it may have a distinctive edge or edge pattern, but the photo would need to be blown up to confirm that.

ETA Link to pic. There is a clearer one but I can't link it at the moment.

 

[zwiebel]

Correction! Look at the belt in his Namus photo. That buckle (again on a white belt) looks very ornate and identifiable.

https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/2706

 

[Oriah]

Heh, I never forget a dog, their name or their temperament but as to whatever may be on the other end of the leash, I have no idea.

I never forget a dog either lol, although sometimes I change their names in my head. (We currently have a 'Muffin' staying with us whose name I can't seem to hold onto; keeps getting turned into 'McNally- no idea why.)

I often remember owners for mannerisms related to their dog. I wonder if we can somehow get a consensus on Mr. Harrods dog-walking outfits using that as a basis for his daily walk, and perhaps assume he didn't change clothes more than once a day?