CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #12

[zwiebel]

I think I've got them, these are legal rulings. But it's a lot to type out, the document is huge and I can't cut and paste sections. If someone can go to the section numbers and post the info to go with my headlines, it would be great.

89-10 Use of a spouse's monthly benefits by his payee permitted where there is a state imposed legal duty to support.......

90-6 Notwithstanding a state court order SS benefits may not be paid to a conservator on behalf of a claimant who has disappeared.......

http://www.ssas.com/rulings/summary-of-social-security-rulings/

 

[believe09]

Thank you for all of the work around Bob's SS payments-although it still doesnt make sense to me, I get that there it all seems predicated on the belief that the payments will be used inappropriately and are solely for the use of the beneficiary. This is not a criticism of this case, but just my birds eye view of the system.

Now, how about the pension payments? Same thing? We have how ever many years of undistributed pension payments...that account must be frozen I would think.

 

[believe09]

Link to a prosecution of a woman who continued to claim her father's benefits after he went missing (he's still on Namus). She was unmasked when he supposedly reached age 103.

Another case was not prosecuted because the money was still sitting in a joint bank account and was recovered. It's beginning to sound like notification is a legal requirement and payment suspension is automatic, although I can imagine that would cause great financial distress to some families at their time of greatest need.

'Woman admits to taking missing father's benefits'

http://projects.registerguard.com/w...1/security-social-mcrae-bryant-fraud.html.csp

Wow, another one; son, daughter and son in law claimed mom's benefits for 30 years. Now LE are digging the garden for her!

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...ity-checks-of-woman-missing-for-30-years?lite

Fortunately this is not the case here-Bob's assets are substantial and none of them should be up for grabs anyway. I am sure these women are comfortably living on whatever retirement moneys they have generated for themselves.

 

[Cubby]

Fortunately this is not the case here-Bob's assets are substantial and none of them should be up for grabs anyway. I am sure these women are comfortably living on whatever retirement moneys they have generated for themselves.

BBM. See, now I've always believed Bob's money was these womens (and the sil's) retirement plan. When Bob remarried and they saw the possibility of that money slipping away..... Well, here we are.

 

[FrayedKnot]

FTR, I do not think the daughters had any hand in Bob's disappearance. At least not them specifically. I still think the most obvious suspect isn't at a family member at all.

But I also think the daughters care more about Bob's money than they do Bob and it's sad when total strangers put more effort into trying to find a MP than the family does.

 

[shefner]

I believe the daughters and their family members had everything to do with Bob's disappearance. I'm not sure exactly what went down...but they were the only ones who had much to gain.
I doubt it was a random robbery that turned into murder...why else would the criminal take Bob's body, or take Bob? Why wasn't anything of significance missing around the house?
No...this was vengeance and greed wrapped into one. And its sad that Bob has not been located yet. How these girls have acted since their father's disappearance is a downright shame. Someone should give up the truth and let daddy rest in peace.

 

[Cubby]

Published: Oct. 8, 2009 Updated: 3:13 p.m.

The three daughters told police initially they suspected Bob Harrod's barber – a woman who attended their mother's funeral in 2008 – of some connection with the disappearance. Police have cleared the barber and her husband of any connection with the case.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-214111--.html



Originally published February 7, 2010 at 7:02 PM | Page modified February 7, 2010 at 9:07 PM

The younger woman with whom Bob had a friendship has a solid alibi.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ppeared08.html


http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/02/local/la-me-disappeared3-2010feb03/2


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #9

 

[Cherry]

The only time I'm aware of SSA paying out on a deaceased claim is when the spouse has children under that age of now 21. Vet Benefits as well. I received both as a child; then as an emancipated child when one parent tried to keep my pmts but not allow me to live at home. So; the judge emancipated me and gave me my dad's benefits. Which was right.
If he is missing I would assume that if his claim was put in before he went missing and then approved, yes those checks could go into any joint or designated account he signed it to go into. (are bob's benefits being paid out in this case and did they find his body because I'm not up to date)

 

[Oriah]

The only time I'm aware of SSA paying out on a deaceased claim is when the spouse has children under that age of now 21. Vet Benefits as well. I received both as a child; then as an emancipated child when one parent tried to keep my pmts but not allow me to live at home. So; the judge emancipated me and gave me my dad's benefits. Which was right.
If he is missing I would assume that if his claim was put in before he went missing and then approved, yes those checks could go into any joint or designated account he signed it to go into. (are bob's benefits being paid out in this case and did they find his body because I'm not up to date)

Thanks Cherry, I concur.
Since they are not being taxed, I assume they are not being paid out. So someone 'stopped' them after he went missing. The government didn't just decide to stop sending checks to one Mr. Robert Harrod in Placentia CA willy nilly, kwim?

No, he has not been located to date.

 

[Oriah]

Just from a quick read through, it looks as though FH may have missed out on being able to make any claim as a widow, due to the Harrods being married less than nine months.

For the trust conservators, it looks as though as long as they provided notification in good time, money can be claimed back eventually, but a payout can only be given to the family by court order if a death certificate is not produced. Maybe they can afford to wait for that?

http://socialsecurityhop.com/en/han...widow-entitled-to-widowers-insurance-benefits

http://www.lifequotes.com/articles/...an-the-family-expect-a-life-insurance-payout/

Playing catch up here on the thread...

The thing is, FH isn't a widow by CA law. Mr. Harrod has not been declared deceased- in fact, he hasn't even been declared likely deceased. All that's been said (that's from LE) is that they're investigating the case as a possible homicide. Isn't that correct? So what the heck has been going on with Mr. Harrod's money?

How has all of this happened??

I am truly confused by the mechanics of all of this. Saddened and confused- and extremely skeptical of anyone who had access to his financial information prior to his disappearance- which appear to be almost exclusively family members.

 

[zwiebel]

You're perfectly right there Oriah. I lost sight of the official picture there for a minute. The fact is, Bob has not been declared dead, Fontelle is his wife and yet it seems Bob's houses, cash and house contents have effectively been taken away from him. While his wife is having to battle to stay in the marital home.

Bad enough that if Bob were to return now, he would find everything from his chequebook to his classic car out of his control, but what he'd think if his wife had been forced back to MO as well.....Especially as they had only just found each other again after, what was it, 50 or 60 years?

 

[zwiebel]

Published: Oct. 8, 2009 Updated: 3:13 p.m.

The three daughters told police initially they suspected Bob Harrod's barber – a woman who attended their mother's funeral in 2008 – of some connection with the disappearance. Police have cleared the barber and her husband of any connection with the case.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-214111--.html



Originally published February 7, 2010 at 7:02 PM | Page modified February 7, 2010 at 9:07 PM

The younger woman with whom Bob had a friendship has a solid alibi.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ppeared08.html


http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/02/local/la-me-disappeared3-2010feb03/2


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #9

LE have been quite emphatic about this, haven't they? Especially in comparison to their other comments about this case. I guess the BL not only has a solid alibi, but a solid and consistent timeline too. And the timeline's the thing, in this case.

To me, the most puzzling aspect of Bob's case remains the fact that the one person who could step forward and clear up all the confusion about when they last saw Bob, hasn't done so. Why?

 

[Oriah]

LE have been quite emphatic about this, haven't they? Especially in comparison to their other comments about this case. I guess the BL not only has a solid alibi, but a solid and consistent timeline too. And the timeline's the thing, in this case.

To me, the most puzzling aspect of Bob's case remains the fact that the one person who could step forward and clear up all the confusion about when they last saw Bob, hasn't done so. Why?

BBM:
Perhaps they were not the *only* person to last see Mr. Harrod? Last seen(s) can be horribly complicated when there are multiple witness accounts.

Just a thought.

 

[zwiebel]

If there is someone out there who 'last saw' Mr Harrod and hasn't come forward yet.....I would politely suggest they come forward now, in double quick time, before it's too late.

Can you imagine the nightmare scenario it would be to have LE knocking on your door saying, 'We believe you saw Mr Harrod on 27th July 2009 and you haven't come forward for four years'?

Anything could happen (or has happened) to the person responsible for disappearing Bob. Imagine if you knew something but didn't come forward, and then when you had to tell your side of the story, there was only you around to blame?

If I knew something about this case, I'd be camping on LE's doorstep at this point, until they took my statement.

 

[Oriah]

If there is someone out there who 'last saw' Mr Harrod and hasn't come forward yet.....I would politely suggest they come forward now, in double quick time, before it's too late.

Can you imagine the nightmare scenario it would be to have LE knocking on your door saying, 'We believe you saw Mr Harrod on 27th July 2009 and you haven't come forward for four years'?

Anything could happen (or has happened) to the person responsible for disappearing Bob. Imagine if you knew something but didn't come forward, and then when you had to tell your side of the story, there was only you around to blame?

If I knew something about this case, I'd be camping on LE's doorstep at this point, until they took my statement.

It's never too late, imo. But I imagine the stress of that would become overwhelming to individuals, and I can't imagine why anyone would choose to suffer under those circumstances. If that is the case (that anyone else has information re: Mr. Harrod's status) I would think it would be a burden lifted from a heavy heart to do so.

I actually feel very badly for everyone involved in these sorts of missing person(s) investigations. Not only the victims, but anyone knowlegeable of the situation as well. So often, it seems like people keep trying to rework a situation over and over again in their mind to make it 'okay'- and the truth is, it's never going to be okay; but it could possibly make someone feel more right in their soul.

Someone, somewhere must feel tremendous guilt. What a gift it would be to themselves to unload any known information, kwim?

 

[GrainneDhu]

Thank you for all of the work around Bob's SS payments-although it still doesnt make sense to me, I get that there it all seems predicated on the belief that the payments will be used inappropriately and are solely for the use of the beneficiary. This is not a criticism of this case, but just my birds eye view of the system.

Now, how about the pension payments? Same thing? We have how ever many years of undistributed pension payments...that account must be frozen I would think.

For some reason, I am reminded of something that happened to a friend of mine. Her father was tenured faculty at the university in the town we lived in and one day, he just disappeared. It was about 3 weeks before the semester started and so he wasn't there to teach or carry out any of his other duties.

It took the university 3 years to figure out how they could legally stop paying him because he was tenured and the terms of the tenure didn't cover disappearance.

After 7 years, his wife had him legally declared dead.

After about 9 years, he contacted his family again. Apparently he had some sort of nervous breakdown and left the country, feeling he just could not bear to deal with his family or his career for another minute. This was before the computer age (late 60s-late 70s), so even though the FBI had checked to see if he'd left the country, they somehow missed that he did so under his own passport. He hadn't been in touch with anyone in his family, so was unaware that he'd been declared dead.

What a mess that was.

I think my point is that since such things have happened, most ongoing income sources have terms built in to cover such eventualities.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Fortunately this is not the case here-Bob's assets are substantial and none of them should be up for grabs anyway. I am sure these women are comfortably living on whatever retirement moneys they have generated for themselves.

You don't think that two of them are living on their incomes as co-conservators? It is legal for a conservator (or two) to pay themselves for their services to the estate. And as I recall (but have no link for) the co-conservators both retired after Bob disappeared.

 

[believe09]

You don't think that two of them are living on their incomes as co-conservators? It is legal for a conservator (or two) to pay themselves for their services to the estate. And as I recall (but have no link for) the co-conservators both retired after Bob disappeared.

Andrew's deposition discusses their retirement.

Actually it wouldnt surprise me at all if there was money flowing to them for their work on these accounts.

Let's be realistic however-the attorneys are doing most of the work. What more could they possibly be doing other than paying a few bills and having a money manager manage some trusts? The estate is supposed to be pretty much intact although it has been moved around some. The bulk of the income appears to be being eaten up by attorneys fees.
:banghead:

 

[zwiebel]

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O214-JarndycevJarndyce.html

Bleak House. The most depressing novel ever written, imo.

 

[zwiebel]

I've been searching for any remains found or identified in the area Bob disappeared. During the search, I saw a comment that the desert around CA is 'the biggest undedicated cemetary in the world'. That was pretty depressing too, but at least I can confirm, as far as I can see, that no-one should have any good reason to know Bob is dead at this time. Or have any confirmation that makes them behave as if he is never coming back.

I found this too, which helped balance out that desert comment. This young lady can find a tooth and bit of cloth, in a container,in a minute. That's all she needs. Wow.

http://www.jconline.com/article/201...-Lafayette-cadaver-dog-displays-her-body-work

ETA: Note this is an LE officer donating her free time to help find missing people. Everyone wants to bring them home.