CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #12

[GrainneDhu]

Andrew's deposition discusses their retirement.

Actually it wouldnt surprise me at all if there was money flowing to them for their work on these accounts.

Let's be realistic however-the attorneys are doing most of the work. What more could they possibly be doing other than paying a few bills and having a money manager manage some trusts? The estate is supposed to be pretty much intact although it has been moved around some. The bulk of the income appears to be being eaten up by attorneys fees.
:banghead:

Quite a while back, Gitana posted links to a couple Los Angeles Times stories about a common form of elder abuse where someone not even necessarily related to the person gets conservatorship over them and then empties their bank accounts in various ways, including paying themselves a generous salary for essentially paying a few bills each month. And how the courts have been rubberstamping these transactions.

You or I may think that paying a few bills each month is worth maybe $25/month (stretching hard to make it into semi-skilled labour that takes up an hour). Someone with a different ethical system may see it as worth a couple thousand a month.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I've been searching for any remains found or identified in the area Bob disappeared. During the search, I saw a comment that the desert around CA is 'the biggest undedicated cemetary in the world'. That was pretty depressing too, but at least I can confirm, as far as I can see, that no-one should have any good reason to know Bob is dead at this time. Or have any confirmation that makes them behave as if he is never coming back.

I found this too, which helped balance out that desert comment. This young lady can find a tooth and bit of cloth, in a container,in a minute. That's all she needs. Wow.

http://www.jconline.com/article/201...-Lafayette-cadaver-dog-displays-her-body-work

ETA: Note this is an LE officer donating her free time to help find missing people. Everyone wants to bring them home.

Having watched a lot of HRD training, I think the container is probably perforated to allow the scent to come out.

There's a couple problems with searching the desert (and Oriah can probably cite a couple dozen more). One is that the area to search is huge. Bigger than some countries. Another is that searches in the summer are not a good idea because the environment is so harsh and threatening to a dog's health. That leaves the cooler months but in the cooler months the days are much shorter.

That is why Oriah wants to narrow the search area if at all possible.

 

[zwiebel]

Something that puzzles me is all the reports of hikers finding bodies in very remote locations; in crevices, creeks, rocky outcrops etc. Often it sounds as though they are found just off a walking trail, not a road. How do the bodies get there?

I would have thought it would be very difficult to carry a body any distance at all.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Something that puzzles me is all the reports of hikers finding bodies in very remote locations; in crevices, creeks, rocky outcrops etc. Often it sounds as though they are found just off a walking trail, not a road. How do the bodies get there?

I would have thought it would be very difficult to carry a body any distance at all.

Most of them probably walked in under their own power. Many of those deaths are due to natural causes: someone falls and hits their head in a remote location, someone gets lost and dies of exposure, etc.

Most bodies that are taken to a dump site are no more than 75 feet from the nearest vehicle access because bodies are very heavy. Not to mention, who wants to be caught hauling a dead body around? Most murderers get the body just far enough off the road that they hope the body will not be found for a period of time.

 

[zwiebel]

Has anybody else noticed there are very few threads like this on WS? We have a timeline that's all over the place and very difficult to get a grip on, combined with a mystifying lack of helpful, up-to-date information from Bob's family.

In stark contrast, the timeline for the administration of Bob's estate is easy to get a grip on because everything has been kept up to date and every painstaking little detail has been attended to. Nothing has been neglected and no expense seems to have been spared (although I'm not sure where the financing for those expenses is coming from).

On most of the other mps' threads, it's just the opposite; desperate families are setting up facebook pages, searching the streets, raising funds for searches and flyers and begging for advice on how to make sure their loved one's case stays at the front of LE's mind.

I've noticed several posts where a WSer has tried to give advice to a loved one about getting any benefits or rights they might be entitled to, or getting access to the mps accounts (often just to try and track possible activity). Almost invariably the answer is, 'I haven't got time. I've got to find my loved one first, we can sort all that out when they are safely home.'

Even when the families must raise money for searches, it's usually friends who step forward and do that for them. I guess when you have a loved one who is missing, it's almost impossible to research, do or think about anything but bringing them home.

 

[Oriah]

Respectfully snipped for space:

<when you have a loved one who is missing, it's almost impossible to research, do or think about anything but bringing them home. >

I think this is very much the case in instances where folks have no knowledge of the what/where/when/how something made their loved one disappear. But then again, sometimes even when people do have a piece of that very toubling puzzle, they often misreport it (accidentally or otherwise.)

Quite the situation in Mr. Harrod's case, imvho. Resulting in an all too common situation, which is a conflict of both.

 

[zwiebel]

Well, I think it's heartbreaking. There are threads here where relatives have been plugging away for years, almost alone. On our current cold case, Andy Atkinson and Cheryl Henry, for example. 20 something year-old sweethearts, necking in a lovers lane and they both ended up with their throats cut in 1990. And Cheryl was raped. Step-sis is a member here and posted a lot at the beginning, then when interest died away, every year on the anniversary of their deaths she made sure she came back.

She had to wait about ten years or something for the first break, which was DNA from a living rape survivor, who had been attacked two months before Cheryl and Andy. There is also a link to an article I put on there detailing the effects this has had on the family. It is one of the best articles on the subject of missing persons I have ever read and it is devastating. The family don't seem to have had much support over the years.

It makes me so mad to think there are other people out there being offered all the help in the world, and snubbing it - even obstructing it. While others have to fight every step of the way. It means some missing people are just put aside like trash and forgotten. They should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

Rant over now though, because even in my darkest moments, I am sure Bob Harrod will never be one of them.

 

[Oriah]

Well, I think it's heartbreaking. There are threads here where relatives have been plugging away for years, almost alone. On our current cold case, Andy Atkinson and Cheryl Henry, for example. 20 something year-old sweethearts, necking in a lovers lane and they both ended up with their throats cut in 1990. And Cheryl was raped. Step-sis is a member here and posted a lot at the beginning, then when interest died away, every year on the anniversary of their deaths she made sure she came back.

She had to wait about ten years or something for the first break, which was DNA from a living rape survivor, who had been attacked two months before Cheryl and Andy. There is also a link to an article I put on there detailing the effects this has had on the family. It is one of the best articles on the subject of missing persons I have ever read and it is devastating. The family don't seem to have had much support over the years.

It makes me so mad to think there are other people out there being offered all the help in the world, and snubbing it - even obstructing it. While others have to fight every step of the way. It means some missing people are just put aside like trash and forgotten. They should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

Rant over now though, because even in my darkest moments, I am sure Bob Harrod will never be one of them.

ITA.

I personally have a really hard time understanding cases that refuse SAR help. Intellectually, I know the cases are not all the same- some people are guilty of something, others guilty of everything, some guilty of nothing.
But it never ends up adding up, when they turn down SAR. kwim?

 

[zwiebel]

Do people turn down SAR?

 

[zwiebel]

Why would you ever turn down a SAR search, unless LE advised it?

In fact, it seems a little peculiar to me that people do have the right to turn a search down. How does that work?

 

[zwiebel]

In case anyone is wondering, like me, how long LE are willing to go on searching for a missing person; it's all over the BBC tonight how police in Scotland are exhuming a family grave in the search for an 11-year-old who has been missing.....................56 years. Standing by the site helping is the adult daughter of the suspect, who tipped off the police about something her father said before he died. Brave woman.

 

[believe09]

In case anyone is wondering, like me, how long LE are willing to go on searching for a missing person; it's all over the BBC tonight how police in Scotland are exhuming a family grave in the search for an 11-year-old who has been missing.....................56 years. Standing by the site helping is the adult daughter of the suspect, who tipped off the police about something her father said before he died. Brave woman.

The boy in the box is a great example, the tot who was unclaimed from the Titanic....

People dont forget, LE doesnt forget. I know a detective who has been all over a cold missing child's case since the boy disappeared in 1981.

In my experience, fwiw, it is the rule rather than the exception.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Why would you ever turn down a SAR search, unless LE advised it?

In fact, it seems a little peculiar to me that people do have the right to turn a search down. How does that work?

Keep in mind the largely unregulated nature of SAR in the US.

If the LE agency that has jurisdiction has tracking dogs, I don't think the family can refuse that. Where refusal can come in is when private parties offer help searching.

There are various certifications available in the US but there is no law to force someone who says they have a SAR to actually get the certification to prove their dog's credentials. Most people involved in SAR are highly ethical and highly principled people but there are always a few bad apples in the bunch. There are so-called search dog handlers that I wouldn't give the time of day to, let alone permission to search for my loved one.

 

[Oriah]

Why would you ever turn down a SAR search, unless LE advised it?

In fact, it seems a little peculiar to me that people do have the right to turn a search down. How does that work?

Ironically, it's usually when LE is the requesting party that searches are turned down. Thus the need for SW's of private property, as Grainne said.

Fwiw, most professional SAR teams that I know do not, on principle and ethic, solicit any cases. So sometimes folks who are missing someone don't know the resources that are available to them.

But for those that do...I just don't understand.

 

[Oriah]

Keep in mind the largely unregulated nature of SAR in the US.

If the LE agency that has jurisdiction has tracking dogs, I don't think the family can refuse that. Where refusal can come in is when private parties offer help searching.

There are various certifications available in the US but there is no law to force someone who says they have a SAR to actually get the certification to prove their dog's credentials. Most people involved in SAR are highly ethical and highly principled people but there are always a few bad apples in the bunch. There are so-called search dog handlers that I wouldn't give the time of day to, let alone permission to search for my loved one.

Respectfully,
If a LE agency has working dogs of any type it matters a great deal where they are used- a public vs a private environment.
For example, it is legal (and very useful in court) when a LE K9 sniffs out some cocaine in a bag at an airport. But a LEO cannot enter a home with the same K9 if owner does not consent, without a SW, to sniff out the cocaine in a bathroom in home. kwim?

The same is true for HRD searches.

ETA: clarification

 

[believe09]

Here is a link to the Minute Order for the December 2012 Trial regarding rent etc.

LINK HERE

 

[zwiebel]

Just to clarify then, private SAR operations can be certified, but it's optional. And a private SAR team would be unlikely to go ahead with a search (on private or public ground) if the mps family refused help?

Whereas LE can go ahead with a search, with or without permission, but will always get a search warrant if it involves private property, for legal reasons?

With the private, paid-for SARs which are not certified and have questionable skills/training; do they ever mess up evidence? What a nightmare that would be. I'm not sure I think it's a good idea to allow that. It would be much better if there was a national certificate that everybody had to pass to get a licence, I would have thought.

 

[Oriah]

Unrelated to SAR- I am having a difficult time posting case #: 30-2009-00297798 PR-TR-LJC which was initiated on 8/28/2009.

Can anyone else pull it up? Do we already have a doc up? I have a copy, but I think my computer no-likey uploading today for some reason.

 

[zwiebel]

Thank you believe09 and anyone else concerned!!

'.....it stretches the imagination to argue that Bob would intend Fontelle to pay rent..'

Haven't we said that all along? If only they'd listened to us instead of going through all that legal process.

 

[zwiebel]

Unrelated to SAR- I am having a difficult time posting case #: 30-2009-00297798 PR-TR-LJC which was initiated on 8/28/2009.

Can anyone else pull it up? Do we already have a doc up? I have a copy, but I think my computer no-likey uploading today for some reason.

Shout at it in German - always works for me.