CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #12

[mikkismom]

Petitioners argue that support was set based on F’s estimated cost of living in Orange County, including cost of renting a home comparable to the Carnation Drive property, and that “it was intended that the Objector would either pay rent or vacate the Carnation Drive property which is the asset of the Survivor’s Trust.” (See Paragraph 6 of Petition)

For the most part, I am speechless! :what:

It appears that Mrs. Harrod has upset their 'plans' by acting like she is Bob's wife! :doh:

These people :waitasec::banghead::furious::sick::maddening::anguish::doorhide::notgood:

:moo:

 

[zwiebel]

That makes clear, for the first time, what the objective of Bob's daughters has been from day one, imo. Whatever they say to the contrary, there it is in black and white now, in a court of law.

Apparently, Bob's home, although there is NO evidence he is dead, is now simply regarded as an asset of the survivors' trust, in which his wife is not welcome. How soon after Bob's disappearance was that decided, and by whom?

 

[believe09]

For the most part, I am speechless! :what:

It appears that Mrs. Harrod has upset their 'plans' by acting like she is Bob's wife! :doh:

These people :waitasec::banghead::furious::sick::maddening::anguish::doorhide::notgood:

:moo:

Warm and fuzzy arent they? Not so much worried about where Bob is and preserving the status quo for him....very concerned about clearing their stepmother out of her home.

In their own words, their agenda was to drive her out. Lovely. Now the judge knows that too.

 

[knt42]

Gobsmacked as to how low they can stoop. Surely all the money grabbing ways from day one should have the Le eyes well and truly open?

How are they all so sure that bh is not going to reappear? Poor bloke, how would he go about regaining all his assets back? I wonder if the memorabilia is still within the family, or been sold?

 

[zwiebel]

'The question, however, is whether the spousal support amount should be modified due to a change in circumstances since the order was made. Nothing has changed that was not in existence since the SA was made.'

Judgement was correct of course, given the info that was made available. My problem is that circumstancs had changed, and the trust had taken a $3,800 per month hit with the loss of AH's repayments. So why wasn't that mentioned at this hearing?

 

[believe09]

Gobsmacked as to how low they can stoop. Surely all the money grabbing ways from day one should have the Le eyes well and truly open?

How are they all so sure that bh is not going to reappear? Poor bloke, how would he go about regaining all his assets back? I wonder if the memorabilia is still within the family, or been sold?

I suspect that this might be the case, knt42. Regardless of what you want to believe about his daughters possible involvement in this case, they have consistently delivered the same message regarding HIS assets. IMO.

 

[zwiebel]

Agreed. It seems like:

"They're not his assets, they're ours now, As PER HIS WISHES!!!'

Sorry about that mods. That phrase just popped out in caps, Can't think why.

 

[knt42]

IMO the only reason they wanted her out, was to profit from the sale/rent of the property. But would they be able to use the money raked in? Or are they afraid that there inheritance is ebbing away? But they were under that impression before the disappearance as why else would they speak to the attorney over their mothers will and what they were owed!

Didn't I read a court document where one of the daughters took ah to court over the monies owed? If I am mistaken, it's because I read so much playing catchup on this case over the last few weeks.

 

[zwiebel]

Maybe they are renting out Windflower for $3,800 per month, so things have balanced out. The gross income of the trust is $4811, so maybe the conservators are managing to bring in another $1,000 or so per month too.

I still don't think Bob would be happy with the way his hard earned wealth has been handled though.

 

[zwiebel]

IMO the only reason they wanted her out, was to profit from the sale/rent of the property. But would they be able to use the money raked in? Or are they afraid that there inheritance is ebbing away? But they were under that impression before the disappearance as why else would they speak to the attorney over their mothers will and what they were owed!

Didn't I read a court document where one of the daughters took ah to court over the monies owed? If I am mistaken, it's because I read so much playing catchup on this case over the last few weeks.

Someone else can explain better than I, but it wasn't quite that. AH was talking in a separate case, but it certainly seemed to me he was suggesting the daughters had intimated there would be further action if he did not pay up. Maybe I should transcribe that doc for the thread too?

 

[believe09]

Someone else can explain better than I, but it wasn't quite that. AH was talking in a separate case, but it certainly seemed to me he was suggesting the daughters had intimated there would be further action if he did not pay up. Maybe I should transcribe that doc for the thread too?

I dont think so, zwiebel-I am not sure how user friendly the thread would be with more documents on it.

 

[believe09]

IMO the only reason they wanted her out, was to profit from the sale/rent of the property. But would they be able to use the money raked in? Or are they afraid that there inheritance is ebbing away? But they were under that impression before the disappearance as why else would they speak to the attorney over their mothers will and what they were owed!

Didn't I read a court document where one of the daughters took ah to court over the monies owed? If I am mistaken, it's because I read so much playing catchup on this case over the last few weeks.

They didnt take him to court at all-they entered into a deal with him to forgive the debt because he said he had a non written agreement with Bob that the money was to be forgiven upon Bob's death.

AH exercised his option not to pay on August 1 2009, so I feel this points to his belief (at a minimum) that his grandfather was deceased.

Where things go a little wonky for me is when the co conservators are crying poor (a shortfall of 549 dollars a month), but they let him walk away from over 600K. And there is that little thing about it all being predicated on Bob's death....

In any case, you will find Andrew's perspective contained within his deposition which is posted HERE

 

[believe09]

IMO the only reason they wanted her out, was to profit from the sale/rent of the property. But would they be able to use the money raked in? Or are they afraid that there inheritance is ebbing away? But they were under that impression before the disappearance as why else would they speak to the attorney over their mothers will and what they were owed!

Didn't I read a court document where one of the daughters took ah to court over the monies owed? If I am mistaken, it's because I read so much playing catchup on this case over the last few weeks.

I dont think so. PB, one of the co conservators, is not paying any rent. That is mentioned in the minute order. So she isnt paying rent, AH wasnt paying a mortgage or rent...I think it is pretty unfair to expect Bob's spouse to pay rent.

The co conservators have other options....and they had other options.

 

[GrainneDhu]

'The question, however, is whether the spousal support amount should be modified due to a change in circumstances since the order was made. Nothing has changed that was not in existence since the SA was made.'

Judgement was correct of course, given the info that was made available. My problem is that circumstancs had changed, and the trust had taken a $3,800 per month hit with the loss of AH's repayments. So why wasn't that mentioned at this hearing?

That had already happened at the time of the initial hearing. AH stopped his mortgage payments four days after Bob disappeared. Long before the co-conservators were appointed, etc.

 

[believe09]

That had already happened at the time of the initial hearing. AH stopped his mortgage payments four days after Bob disappeared. Long before the co-conservators were appointed, etc.

I suppose it is just another "non" change in circumstances.

However, since the co conservators were raising the point of a shortfall, I think it is worth pondering whether Windflower remains empty (I doubt it) and if not, what kind of income is being generated by that property? And was it properly added into the numbers that the co conservators came up with? I mean I would love to see the break down of the co conservators fees and the attorneys fees in proportion to the actual earnings of the estate.

 

[Oriah]

You are correct!

I was thinking in terms of a dog being used to search public areas, such as starting outside the victim's home. The family has no more right to refuse such a search than they have the right to demand the airport K9 be taken away. You're correct that the family does not have to give consent for a dog to start inside of the house and they don't have to turn over a scent item.

Of course, in my theory of what happened to Bob, a scent item would not be needed. The use of an HRD dog around the outside doors of the house is what would have yielded results at the time.

Tangential and not at all related: when I was flying with my service dog, he was attacked by an airport bomb dog who had a clueless handler. My dog was jumped from behind, there was no doubt about which dog was at fault. The really stupid thing was that the handler tried to blame my dog and was just about lynched by the mob of eyewitnesses! Really, if he hadn't backed down right quick, I think he would have been hurting.

Travelling with my service dog was like being entourage for a rock star. More people knew my dog's name than knew mine and it was pretty routine for people I had never met to say "isn't that <name of dog>? Would you mind if I petted him?" After 9/11, while the National Guard was in the airports, they were enchanted with him when I explained he was the long coated cousin of a Belgian Malinois. They were young, bored people and they loved to make a fuss over him. It was always kinda funny to see these heavily armed guys (and a few women) bending over him, giving him scritches in all his favourite spots and baby talking him.

I was flying 3 times a month in that year after 9/11 and got to know a lot of the National Guard people pretty well. It was downright surprising how many of them discovered it was time for their break as I was coming up through security with my dog. They'd go with me down to my gate and sit to pet my dog and talk to me for awhile... and then sadly drag themselves back to the security gate for more boring.

Yikes! I'm glad your dog is ok.

I've experienced several similar experiences with poorly trained or inexperienced K9 handlers (particularly in airports, lol.)
Post 9/11, a lot more LEA's got more K9's in a very short period of time, and were also shorted the amount of time training usually takes out of necessity. Not a good situation for working dogs and their handlers in the long run, because cases like Mr. Harrod's- where a forensic K9 will be really useful at this point- has already been contaminated by peoples' experiences with poorly trained handlers or dogs. And that gets translated to DA's, kwim?

 

[zwiebel]

That had already happened at the time of the initial hearing. AH stopped his mortgage payments four days after Bob disappeared. Long before the co-conservators were appointed, etc.

So at the initial hearing, do you think the co-conservators said that the trust had a nearly $4000 drop in income because a family member decided not to pay rent? I'm just wondering because it doesn't make the conservators look very effective, imo.

I am guessing that conservators/attorneys' fees/monthly deficits are all coming out of the cash reserves of Bob's trust at the moment. I wonder what will happen if that runs out. Will conservators be allowed to start selling off properties? And which property will they want to sell first, if that's the case?

 

[zwiebel]

'They state an &#8220;understanding&#8221; that F doesn&#8217;t reside in the residence many months of the year, and the home &#8220;sits unoccupied while it could and should be generating income in the form of rent for the HFT.'

Does this statement in the court document disturb anybody else? How do the co-conservators know that? Did F tell them? Or is it possible - and I can hardly believe it can be - that the PI hired to provide 'general milestones' on the search for Bob, was actually diverted to investigate how often Mrs Harrod was at home? That really would be the height of irony if true, given that those investigations might well have been funded by Bob's own money.

 

[FrayedKnot]

That makes clear, for the first time, what the objective of Bob's daughters has been from day one, imo. Whatever they say to the contrary, there it is in black and white now, in a court of law.

Apparently, Bob's home, although there is NO evidence he is dead, is now simply regarded as an asset of the survivors' trust, in which his wife is not welcome. How soon after Bob's disappearance was that decided, and by whom?

No wonder they haven't had time to look for Bob.

They've been too busy trying to get their mitts on his money.

 

[believe09]

So at the initial hearing, do you think the co-conservators said that the trust had a nearly $4000 drop in income because a family member decided not to pay rent? I'm just wondering because it doesn't make the conservators look very effective, imo.

I am guessing that conservators/attorneys' fees/monthly deficits are all coming out of the cash reserves of Bob's trust at the moment. I wonder what will happen if that runs out. Will conservators be allowed to start selling off properties? And which property will they want to sell first, if that's the case?

I suspect they are prohibited from liquidating assets like property or memorabilia.

That doesnt mean they arent dumping them by using friends to sell them, for example, but I doubt they are supposed to.


I wonder if a post inventory inventory will ever be done.