CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #1

[Chorley8]

Suggested this before but many posts and think it is worth trying again - from 2:12 or so on she appears not to be counting.... but to recounting something that has just happened to her - she seems to be miming having her hands tied and being made to sit down. I think she possibly has already been attacked at this point - has made some kind of temporary escape - is traumatized - doesn't know what to do or where to go. (Could be a sick cat and mouse game if they have the exits on her floor controlled and the elevator controlled - a hunt). Of course could be drugged of course could be mentally ill but the idea of making psychiatric diagnoses on this slender evidence - some posts have said they know what is wrong with her "100%" I disagree that is possible.

Not sure why it is cruel to ask her family to ID her body. When a case is very very peculiar then lots of things become possible - they should satisfy themselves that it is her. And not through DNA or dental records. Obviously if she can't be identified visually at this point then it can't be done but it likely can or how would they have identified her already? What worries me is that there was so much speculation about accidental death before they got her body out of the water tank What worries me is there was so much speculation about mental health on the basis of some possibly doctored video.

I wonder why LE assured everyone at first that the water was safe to drink - soon overturned by the health department.

Comments about her staying at this seedy hotel: newcasts show there are foreign tourists on package tours the site even suggests they do conventions! Signs of Beverley Hills and Hollywood on the site as well. Easy to be misled by ads.

However I would very very much like to know where she was staying in San Diego, how she got to LA. If she went to a TV studio in S.D. and is pictured on the G. Stromb. show in Toronto then I would guess she had similar plans in LA.

I think she presses multiple keys on the elevator but many lights are burnt out - and tries to speak into the intercom - could be wrong.

 

[Wattch]

I think there are three distinct leads for me to follow in my last post
Why all the button play with elevator controls?
Does she have a history of substance abuse or phycosis?
How does the elevator operate? (because the doors dont budge, and Ive been on more than a few elevators, none of them opreated like this unless in service mode or attendant opperated this is 15 story commercial building we are talking about here)
Wattch

 

[summer_breeze]

Welcome to WebSleuths, to all our newest members!

:welcome5:

 

[michellemarls]

Elisa seems to be acting "normally" when shen first enters the lift. She walks in, bends down to see the buttons (maybe needs to look closely because she has no glasses on), presses 4 and then stands back waiting for the lift doors to shut...this is exactly what you would expect.

It only when the doors do not close as expected that her behaviour changes. We do not have sound to the video. Like another poster suggested, someone could have been playing a sort of cat and mouse game with her...hiding round the corner..making a noise either verbally or physically which we do not hear....she looks like someone panicking to me, when she enters the lift to press the buttons for the second time, this pressing of buttons is not relaxed it looks more desperate, she presses them over and over....i think she is scared.

 

[Chorley8]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/20/us/california-hotel-water-corpse/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Bizarre interviews guests describing how disgusting water in the hotel was to drink, bathe in. CNN has cut the part where the tourist laughs (nervous laughter I guess). Why headline this? Why "corpse" when they are so sure of who it is?

The exaggerated initial movement entering with the single finger - trying to be brave, calm we don't know what has happened rape victims for example sometimes do this to survive. Seems to be hearing something someone approaching when she holds herself beside the buttons yes fear apparent. Her coordination is very good when she looks both ways quick like a normal young person. We may be seeing a small part of what already has been a frightening ordeal.

 

[Eileen730]

She is not on the lobby floor. I can tell from the wall opposite the elevators.

There were indeed two elevators side by side. I found a picture online.

http://img.agoda.net/hotelimages/979/97998/97998_121127212606_STD.png

I remember the round mirrors from my visit. Perhaps she is looking at herself in the mirror for some of the video.

I think she was on the 15th floor she seems to push all the middle buttons on the panel the first being 14 then 10 then 7 then 4 nothing happens he looks out afraid Does she hear someone she hides in the corner of the elevator looks out again then it seels she is talking to someone by her hand movements was the elevator stuckon that floor so she coulnt leave she presses all the buttons on the panel and still nothing. She gives up and walks off it takes a while for the elevator to function again a turn of the key possibly! same person that would have access to those water tanks. They should be looking at whoever maintains thes things in this building.

I wonder if anyone didnt show up for work?

 

[Eileen730]

Here is the hotels elevators controll panel.


http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/ceci...0XWlhUYap81ZxsIiz5llZw#8WRRjdNxuSdkRLmwF7csdQ

 

[Eileen730]

Maybe she wasnt in that water tank the entire time she was missing

 

[Sillybilly]

IIRC, fire chief said the tanks were 8' tall with ladders. Slightly different info attributed to LAPD Sgt Rudy Lopez:

Lopez said the hotel has four cisterns on its roof that are each about three metres tall, 1. 4 metres wide and hold at least 3,785 litres of water pumped up from city pipes.

Lam's body was found Tuesday morning at the bottom of one cistern that was about three-quarters full of water, Lopez said.

The opening at the top of the cistern is too small to accommodate firefighters and equipment, so they had to cut a hole in the storage tank to recover Lam's body.

The cisterns are on a platform at least three metres above the roof.

To get to the tanks, someone would have to go to the top floor then take a staircase with a locked door and emergency alarm preventing roof access.

Another ladder would have to be taken to the platform and a person would have to climb the side of the tank.

<bbm .. 3 metres = 9.84 feet>

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/water-...und-in-l-a-hotel-tank-1.1165492#ixzz2LXDXnfxw

 

[Sillybilly]

Maybe she wasnt in that water tank the entire time she was missing

I don't think she was because tracking dogs should have tracked her right up to the tanks. IF they were cadaver dogs (not likely in an early search), they should have picked up the smell of decomp IF the hatch was open on the tank. The odor would have emitted in a concentrated area and should have been an easy hit for them.

Yes, would be interesting to know the dates that the low water pressure was first reported and for how long that condition existed (and how long it took maintenance to check out the report).

Bodies in water sink initially which could explain a blockage in the flow through the pipes. The colder the water, the longer the body stays down, the warmer the temperature, the faster it will rise to the surface. In a cistern, the water temp would depend on the temp of city water flowing in, how long it remains in the tank, and external temperatures. For example, Feb 1 in LA shows nighttime temps around 50F, daytime around 75, with a mean of of 60F. Under 45F, the body may not even surface. Different number of days to surface, depending on temperatures.

JMO

 

[moondust]

Hi, all. Lots of great theorizing going on in this thread. I usually lurk, but since I finally registered for WS due to this case, I thought I ought to share my own two cents worth. Poor, poor Elisa.

I just can't shake the initial impression I had from watching the video of Elisa in the elevator. I think she's frightened and trying to collect herself - I think, like other posters have suggested, she's had a run-in with someone who meant her harm, or disturbed her, and she's trying to calm herself down. I'm also of the belief that if there was foul play in this case, there was more than one perpetrator. I think that when she looks as though she's talking to someone, she is - but that person is obscured by the elevator, so the security camera can't see them. I suspect the person she's talking to is not the person who frightened her, but an accomplice - someone who lured her into thinking they were trustworthy. At the end of the video when Elisa goes out of frame, to the left, she looks as though she's been directed that way. Maybe by someone who told her she could get help if she went that way. If Elisa met with foul play, I think two people, rather than one, would be more easily able to place her in the water tank. I just can't get over her being found in a water tank. I know people who are on drugs or mentally unsound are sometimes able to do things people couldn't do if they were sober or mentally okay, but I can't fathom how she ended up in the water tank by her own doing.

I hope there are answers in this case, and soon.

 

[Catchew]

Since there has been recent discussion about the elevator video that brings up some things discussed earlier in the thread, I thought I would mention a couple of things we had previously noticed:

1) Around the 0:14 mark of the video the elevator door does move slightly, as if it was going to close and then didn't.
2) There was discussion about the timer on the bottom of the video. Although fuzzy, we noticed that it stopped about 3 times around the 2:58 mark, but also that it appears almost a minute is edited out around the 2:49 mark. See my previous post here:
[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8883976&postcount=290"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013[/ame]

Just wanted to bring those back up since I think it's important to note that the elevator door did make a slight movement which would suggest the closing of the door was stopped somehow.

Also - some of us had speculated that others could have been edited out of the video (to protect privacy, etc.).

I tend to agree with the posters suggesting there is a reason LAPD released the whole video, including the seemingly empty elevator stopping at different floors. Why not just release the first 2 1/2 minutes or so in which Elisa is seen?

 

[Catchew]

Vancouver’s Elisa Lam remembered for cheerful and charismatic personality

Yvonne Chung went to the same high school as Lam, who was a year older, and described her as “incredibly outgoing” and somebody who was friends with everybody.

“And really, she had the sweetest smile,” she told Metro Wednesday.

Teika Steins, manager of Planet Traveler, said Lam stayed at the Toronto hostel for about a week in early December and she never noticed any odd behaviour from the University of B.C. student.

“Her personality was very contagious,” she said. “She had a very charismatic personality and we were drawn towards it. She’d run down the stairs, bouncing up and down.”

“We have a lot of people come and go, but when you have people like Elisa who are cheerful all the time and very welcoming to people, you just remember them,” Steins said, adding Lam joined her and other hostel staff for dinner at one time.

http://metronews.ca/news/vancouver/...red-for-cheerful-and-charismatic-personality/

BBM - Thank you for this, The Cheese. I think it's strange that she was talked about as charismatic, running down the stairs, bouncing, memorable; yet, I haven't seen any quotes from guests or staff at the Cecil saying anything like this at all. In fact, the last staff to see her (the host and someone else, IIRC) said she was never seen with anyone. That's it. It's almost as if it's 2 different people. Didn't anyone see this side of her after being there for 4 or 5 days??? Why do we not know anything about her stay there? I just think it's a bit strange, FWIW.

 

[longtallcold]

http://news.yahoo.com/water-tested-body-found-la-hotel-tank-083205919.html

When the body was discovered on Tuesday, they issued a do-not-drink order while a lab analyzes the water, said Terrance Powell, a director coordinating the department's response. The disclosure contradicts a previous police statement that the water had been deemed safe.

This seems to be an article about the couple who left the review on the link tarabull provided.

 

[Catchew]

I just had a thought and I apologize if it has already been speculated by anyone else. I keep questioning in my head why EL would push all of the buttons in the middle row upon entering the elevator. Why just those floors?
My theory on that is either a) she couldn't see well at all without her glasses, or b) she was drugged and couldn't see well because of that (I know those possibilities have been mentioned, but my theory goes further).
Perhaps she wound up on a floor other than hers (I'm still thinking the 14th), but she knows her floor is one of the floors on that middle row of buttons. She presses all of them with the intention of watching the lights and counting down until she reaches what she believes to be her floor. I think she starts at the top because she can tell that she is on a double-digit floor, but maybe can't really see which one. She would be able to tell by the lights which floors she is stopping at. If she really can't see well, she might have pushed the door hold button (as mentioned by tarabull) without realizing it and then panicked when the elevator wouldn't move.
That is the only theory I can come up with as to why she would push those specific buttons.

JMO

ETA: And I think she ended up on that floor against her will, which is why she might not have known which floor she was on. As people have previously noted, she would most likely have her glasses with her if she was out and about by her own free will.

 

[mollymae]

Morning everyone! I'm playing catch-up here, so forgive me if any of this has already been mentioned.

Article below states that the water tank Elisa was found in was 3/4 full. This confirms in my mind that she wouldn't be able to reach up and close the lid to the tank herself. If the tank was full to the brim, then maaaaaybe (but still unlikely I think). Also - WHY was the tank only 3/4 full? When her body went into the tank, did that cause the water level to rise so much that some water spilled out?

The article also mentions a person would have to climb up the side of the tank to get inside one of them. What about that platform above the tanks? There's a red ladder that goes up there...does that ladder usually have a lock over it?

And finally, the guest of the hotel interviewed mentions they had low water pressure for "days" - was Elisa not missing for about 2 weeks? This suggests she may not have been in the water tank the whole time.

Article: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/02/21/hotel-body-water.html?cmp=rss

So many questions. I feel like the more information that gets released to the public, the more questions I have.

 

[Catchew]

Morning everyone! I'm playing catch-up here, so forgive me if any of this has already been mentioned.

Article below states that the water tank Elisa was found in was 3/4 full. This confirms in my mind that she wouldn't be able to reach up and close the lid to the tank herself. If the tank was full to the brim, then maaaaaybe (but still unlikely I think). Also - WHY was the tank only 3/4 full? When her body went into the tank, did that cause the water level to rise so much that some water spilled out?

The article also mentions a person would have to climb up the side of the tank to get inside one of them. What about that platform above the tanks? There's a red ladder that goes up there...does that ladder usually have a lock over it?

And finally, the guest of the hotel interviewed mentions they had low water pressure for "days" - was Elisa not missing for about 2 weeks? This suggests she may not have been in the water tank the whole time.

Article: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/02/21/hotel-body-water.html?cmp=rss

So many questions. I feel like the more information that gets released to the public, the more questions I have.

BBM - Great observation about the 3/4 full tank. I do not think this was an "accident" at all. It's more believable to me that someone placed poor Elisa in the tank.

I also agree that she may not have been in the tank during the whole time she was missing. I remember a post a while back in the thread that LE said they did not search every room as they didn't have probable cause yet (while she was missing). Someone easily could have had her in their room during that time and maybe panicked when the video was released and put her in the tank.

ETA:
Here is the post regarding not searching every room without probable cause: [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8891815&postcount=439"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013[/ame]

 

[Eileen730]

I just had a thought and I apologize if it has already been speculated by anyone else. I keep questioning in my head why EL would push all of the buttons in the middle row upon entering the elevator. Why just those floors?
My theory on that is either a) she couldn't see well at all without her glasses, or b) she was drugged and couldn't see well because of that (I know those possibilities have been mentioned, but my theory goes further).
Perhaps she wound up on a floor other than hers (I'm still thinking the 14th), but she knows her floor is one of the floors on that middle row of buttons. She presses all of them with the intention of watching the lights and counting down until she reaches what she believes to be her floor. I think she starts at the top because she can tell that she is on a double-digit floor, but maybe can't really see which one. She would be able to tell by the lights which floors she is stopping at. If she really can't see well, she might have pushed the door hold button (as mentioned by tarabull) without realizing it and then panicked when the elevator wouldn't move.
That is the only theory I can come up with as to why she would push those specific buttons.

JMO

ETA: And I think she ended up on that floor against her will, which is why she might not have known which floor she was on. As people have previously noted, she would most likely have her glasses with her if she was out and about by her own free will.

There is no need to apologize many have the same thoughts and because one thinks it does not mean it was not thought before by someone else lol so post away your theorys are more than welcome. We tend to say the same tings over and over in here but this is what makes its interesting.

I was actualy looking to see if we could see any kind of reflection on those stainless walls of the elevator but couldnt.

 

[Catchew]

There is no need to apologize many have the same thoughts and because one thinks it does not mean it was not thought before by someone else lol so post away your theorys are more than welcome. We tend to say the same tings over and over in here but this is what makes its interesting.

I was actualy looking to see if we could see any kind of reflection on those stainless walls of the elevator but couldnt.

Thanks Eileen730! :seeya:
I, too, was trying to look for reflections. Almost makes you go cross-eyed, doesn't it?

 

[Dr Hua Sheng]

So that people who may have seen her would be able to recognize her. The more they see of her body language, etc., the better chance they might have had at recognizing her. It seems one guy may have. Somewhere on here I saw that a man says he saw someone not far from the hotel who looked a lot like Elisa, who was singing at the top of her lungs in the street.

It would seem odd that only one person would notice a woman singing at the top of her lungs in the street. A quick survey of local residence, shop / office workers etc would determine whether it was in fact Elisa. Sightings of missing persons seem to be as erroneous as they are common.

But, I do agree with you - it was the strangeness of the elevator situation that brought this so much attention (before the body was found). Perhaps this was the reason.