CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #1

[Snoopster]

Sillybilly, if we are thinking about the same part of the video, it is indeed difficult to digest exactly what she is doing. I'm definitely partial to the previous medical authorities on this page who believe it to be a mental issue.

In regards to drowning time frames, if I remember correctly I believe it can be assessed if you were drowned and then redumped elsewhere at another point. However, my knowledge is limited in the ME area. Would also welcome input from someone in that field.

Ps which point in the video did you try to mimic? I am going to try also!

Shouldn't there be a warning with this? ..."don't try this at home!" We don't want anyone to break a hip! :floorlaugh:

 

[Sillybilly]

I'm still really confused about where the tumblr came from...?
I understand the queue system, but it's not something that is overly used and only for people that exceed the post limit daily. And queue is usually always posting things consistently apart from each other.

I think those posts and subsequent convo/queries are the ones removed by a Mod because they can't be verified as belonging to Elisa.

 

[margarita25]

Re: the video just posted above by Hazel:

So, she was buying gifts on the 31st, discussing their weight in regards to her future travels.

Doesn't sound like she was planning on committing suicide. Not to mention her demeanor, according to the clerk.

"The Last Bookstore"?

 

[Sillybilly]

Shouldn't there be a warning with this? ..."don't try this at home!" We don't want anyone to break a hip! :floorlaugh:

Seriously, i blew my knee out the night before last. Still hobbling around with a cane. Maybe that's what did it, LOL.

 

[serenerelief]

I think those posts and subsequent convo/queries are the ones removed by a Mod because they can't be verified as belonging to Elisa.

@xKate, someone randomly found the Tumblr and posted the link

@sillybilly how do we verify someone's social media account once they're dead? That aside, by all accounts that Tumblr is hers. The social media links on the tumblr link to their other social media accounts. The dates and locations mentioned on the blog exactly match Elisa's.

 

[Sillybilly]

@xKate, someone randomly found the Tumblr and posted the link

@sillybilly how do we verify someone's social media account once they're dead? That aside, by all accounts that Tumblr is hers. The social media links on the tumblr link to their other social media accounts. The dates and locations mentioned on the blog exactly match Elisa's.

I'm sure not the resident TOS expert serene, so best you PM a Mod ... give them all the details that you think are pertinent and let them make the decision.

Sorry, wish i could be of more help.

sb

 

[Shlock Homes]

I don't think she was having a psychotic break, otherwise we would have heard more details about her mental history while she was missing. She called her family every day while in California, so that shows she was maintaining a fairly consistent line of communication. There was nothing in the news about her being prone to disappearing for days at a time, which is what some depressed people will do.

Does anybody know what time the elevator footage was taken? Was it late in the evening, early in the morning? I'm just wondering if perhaps her behaviour may have been a form of sleepwalking hence the strange gestures. I've seen some videos on youtube of people sleepwalking, and they sometimes act in an odd manner.

No explanation as to why she'd be up on the 14th floor if her room was on the 4th floor. Interesting, for the chinese, the number 4 is considered bad luck, like how westerners consider 13 bad luck. It's because it sounds like 'death' when pronounced. She was staying on the 4th floor, and the video was of the 13th story of the building.

No mention of the state of her room, or if the clothing she was seen wearing in the elevator footage was found in her room or if she was wearing it.

 

[24k]

No way this was suicide.

You don't go on vacation to die. Plus, all her pictures, she is smiling. She has the blues maybe.

Someone killed her and hid her body in the tank to avoid capture. Water is the perfect place because it washes away evidence.

I'm not sure what happened to her, but I don't think your comment is entirely accurate. Depressed people can look happy- I know someone who is depressed (has been for years) and cuts herself, but she still smiles in pictures. A picture is literally one second of someone's life.

That said, I hope they can figure this out.

 

[tarabull]

Where does it say Elisa was staying on the 4th floor?? Anyone...???...

And fwiw, the video does not match other pics/photos out there of the 14th floor...

Just saying.

 

[The Cheese]

If Elisa killed herself or fell in the tank then her COD would have been drowning, right? She'd have had to have been alive to get into the tank. Then she would have to drown.

The only other COD I can think of from suicide or falling in the tank would be possibly exposure if it was cold that night? Fell in and couldn't get out because there are no ladders inside, and died of exposure?

I'm just thinking if she drowned, there should have been a COD today. So I'm trying to think if it wasn't homicide what other COD should they have.

Does anyone know how a ME would tell if someone died of exposure? I can look it up but I had noticed a few nurses posting in the thread earlier.

Thanks for any info!

 

[margarita25]

Ok, I know its crappy quality, but I've finally located a map with the emergency exits, etc. It appears in the very last second of this video, taped to the room's door. Can someone pls help capture this pic, perhaps enhance it?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlnOqmzwZuQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlnOqmzwZuQ[/ame]

Shared shower, ugh.

 

[Sillybilly]

Sillybilly, if we are thinking about the same part of the video, it is indeed difficult to digest exactly what she is doing. I'm definitely partial to the previous medical authorities on this page who believe it to be a mental issue.

In regards to drowning time frames, if I remember correctly I believe it can be assessed if you were drowned and then redumped elsewhere at another point. However, my knowledge is limited in the ME area. Would also welcome input from someone in that field.

Ps which point in the video did you try to mimic? I am going to try also!

Thanks for your reply Robert.

Just viewed the video again, and it doesn't seem quite as exaggerated as I remembered it the first time (Lordy, i'm starting to think abnormal things are normal?). Anyway, it's still a very pretty pronounced movement:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TjVBpyTeZM"]Elisa Lam Video - YouTube[/ame]


Anyway, starting about 1:26 to 1:31 in the video is the foot movement, and then as she enters the elevator again, she puts both hands up on the frame of the elevator door, as if possibly steadying herself.

Today in my prolonged pain avoidance mode, careening and lumbering throughout the house, holding onto door frames and bouncing off walls, stopping to make direct, controlled right angle turns into various rooms, I wondered how peeps might think when analyzing me frame-by-frame. :floorlaugh:

 

[Robert White]

Thanks for your reply Robert.

Just viewed the video again, and it doesn't seem quite as exaggerated as I remembered it the first time (Lordy, i'm starting to think abnormal things are normal?). Anyway, it's still a very pretty pronounced movement:

Elisa Lam Video - YouTube


Anyway, starting about 1:26 to 1:31 in the video is the foot movement, and then as she enters the elevator again, she puts both hands up on the frame of the elevator door, as is possibly steadying herself.

Today in my prolonged pain avoidance mode, careening and lumbering throughout the house, holding onto door frames and bouncing off walls, stopping to make direct, controlled right angle turns into various rooms, I wondered how peeps might when analyzing me frame-by-frame. :floorlaugh:

Haha, sounds like an awful time Sillybilly. Get better!

I agree with your assessment on the movements. They are very pronounced. Up down left right. Almost with intent.

I am headed to a multinational conference tomorrow for military security, and I am going to ask around for some opinions. I'll post them up if they are relevant and worthwhile!

 

[Sillybilly]

If Elisa killed herself or fell in the tank then her COD would have been drowning, right? She'd have had to have been alive to get into the tank. Then she would have to drown.

The only other COD I can think of from suicide or falling in the tank would be possibly exposure if it was cold that night? Fell in and couldn't get out because there are no ladders inside, and died of exposure?

I'm just thinking if she drowned, there should have been a COD today. So I'm trying to think if it wasn't homicide what other COD should they have.

Does anyone know how a ME would tell if someone died of exposure? I can look it up but I had noticed a few nurses posting in the thread earlier.

Thanks for any info!

If she went in alive, given an 8 to 10 ft tank 3/4 full, with no ladders inside, i'm pretty sure she would have drowned before she ever died of exposure. While the ME may know that she drowned as cause of death, he/she will try to determine manner of death being homicide (simply meaning caused by man, not necessarily murder), accidental, natural, suicide, or undetermined. He/she may have already made a determination of drowning, but couldn't determine whether she drowned accidentally or was drowned by someone else. Perhaps toxicology can help in that determination.

i.e. cause of death could be drowning, but if toxicology showed large amounts of sleeping pills in her system, and sleeping pills were found in her room, the manner of death might be recorded as suicide or accidental. If GHB was found, they might categorize it as homicide.

MOO

 

[margarita25]

At this link (expedia nz), there is a review which mentions that they lock the stairwell...

http://www.expedia.co.nz/Los-Angeles-Hotels-Cecil-Hotel.h920349-p22.Hotel-Reviews

 

[kimlynn]

I watched the elevator video last night and wanted to post my thoughts but my computer was giving me grief.
Not sure if it matters at this point since she has been found but here is my take on the video.
She seems normal (bouncy and full of energy) as a teacher I think described her,when she first enters the elevator.As she goes toward the back of the elevator and faces the door she seems to lift an eyebrow as though she is surprised or startled.Maybe she hears something outside of the elevator?
The odd movements with her hands seems to me as though she may be dancing.You can see her knees bend and a slight shift of her hips from side to side at the same time she moves her hands.
A young neighbor of mine often dances while waiting outside to have her parents open the door to the house.Same type of movements.
She also seems frustrated while outside of the elevator as she re-enters elevator she has her hands on her head.
Perhaps the punching of all buttons is due to her not being sure which floor she wants and she will know once the door opens to each floor?
She does seem scared at the point she stands to the side of the door as though hiding.You can see a change of expression.
It also could be that the playing around at the elevator means she is waiting for a friend or person known to her to show up.
Mainly I wanted to say R.I.P Elisa.She seemed so full of life and fun in her pictures.Such a shame.

IMO

 

[Snowball58]

I'm new to this case and haven't read through yet, but watching the elevator footage this is what jumps out at me (sorry if it's been posted before).

I'm terribly nearsighted. Without my contacts or glasses, I'm completely incapable of functioning. If I lost my glasses, or had them taken, and ran into an elevator to get away from whatever situation was scaring me, but I couldn't see?

1. I'd have to bend down so that the buttons are at nose length.
2. I'd have to just hit all the buttons if I couldn't make out the floor numbers, just to get the elevator to close and take me to any other floor.
3. I'd probably also accidentally hit the "hold door" button, which would cause the door to stay open until you disable the door hold.
4. I'd probably be totally confused as to why the hell the door wasn't closing. If I felt threatened and thought I was being pursued, I'd also squish myself into the corner, waiting for the door to close. Or maybe I'd just instinctively lean into the corner out of relief, after struggling to find my way to the elevator while vision impaired. Then, when the door remains open, I'd probably listen for sounds and poke my head out to see if there was someone there, preventing the door from closing.
5. I'd probably eventually step out if I thought I heard voices or people who could help me, or even the person who I was hiding from, if I had no other choice. I might gesture wildly out of desperation, exasperated that I had lost my glasses and explaining my situation.
6. I'd very likely have to put my hands out in front of me to feel my way back into the elevator and to steady myself since I can't clearly see the doorway or find my way around.
7. The elevator door does eventually close, which I think would happen after a set amount of time when the door hold button is used.

I suspect that she lost her glasses (or they were taken from her) and either someone was bothering her and she was trying to get away from him, OR she simply was struggling to get back to her room without her glasses and was in the wrong place at the wrong time (elevator) when the perp came by and offered to help her, which led to her murder.

PS - when I'm trying to make my way around the house without my glasses or contacts, I behave exactly like Elisa - counting steps, hands held out in front of me, walking like an intoxicated person.

 

[margarita25]

YOU KNOW what's also creepy!?!? look IN THE MIRROR, look how far down the hall you can see - right to what looks like an EXIT sign no ???)

Wonder if from where the perp would have stood if he could see right into the elevator using the mirror and THATs why she stepped back around the corner of the elevator in hiding...???

I think this is exactly where Elisa was in the video (15th floor), judging from the tile and walls. I think she went out that exit to the left (you can see the exit sign on the bottom photo indicating there is an exit to the left.)

Well, I guess there's nothing else I can contribute at this point until we get the cod and tox report. I am as baffled by this video after watching it for the 50th time, as I was watching it the first time. I have a different opinion every time, lol. Upon this last viewing of the video, I see absolutely no evidence of another person nearby. Like you all, I have examined every reflection and second of this video. I don't see anything.

Wait a minute...could Elisa have been suddenly acting like she was crazy to scare the person away? I give up.

R.I.P. Elisa. May your family find strength and comfort.

The good thing is that there are registration records of every person staying in the hotel, as well as staff records, and cameras at the hotel entrance.

Good luck sleuthing, I'll be checking to see if there have been any epiphanies!!

 

[Chorley8]

As I thought doors are locked - she is trapped in the video. Elevators controlled no egress by doors.

Strange coverage by media unbearably so. Clear attempt to make her look crazy. Clear attempt to dehumanize her cf. the incessant comments interviews and videos now about the supposedly repulsive drinking water. Almost certain LE is going to wash their hands of the case. 6-8 weeks now to get things to die down. Then will probably come back with more inconclusives. No I don't know why she is being treated in this inhumane fashion. Elements of xenophobia, racism misogynism primitive understandings of mental health - some other purpose or some reason unknown to avoid the obvious conclusion of homicide - no idea what is going on.
Why nothing yet on her time in San Diego? I think (possibly) something began there. Why endless commentary on the drinking water in media - in the excellent video Hazel linked to (for which thanks!) it shows how nice the bookstore she visited nearby is - but the commentators smirk and giggle in an unseemly way about the drinking water. Why not get on a bus and figure out what happened in San Diego - and of course her first days in LA.

 

[margarita25]

Perhaps of interest to some, technical detail about a worker's death in a water tank.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=PKb...Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=water tank deaths&f=false

Lastly, does this article indicate there was access into the tank (not the tank at the Hotel Cecil) from the bottom?