CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #2

[silsby]

I don't want to read into that too much, but that seems very coincidental doesn't it? Something that obvious must have been picked up by LE already...

Very likely it's just someone's graffiti tag, which is their signature of sorts. Oftentimes they're somewhat vulgar. Those silly kids.

Might even be able to find it all over LA.

 

[interferon]

As far as suicide is concerned, I personally find it unlikely in this case though I understand the importance of not ruling anything out. Personally, nothing in the video indicates to me she was in a suicidal state at that time. Her contact with friends and family during her stay all the way up to her disappearance through the phone, internet, and postcards, also weakens the suicide theory in my view (as in, if she was traveling with the purpose of suicide, she would have intentionally withdrawn as well). Her blogs, while she occasionally mentions battling with depression and bipolar disorder and makes a passing mention of suicide, I don't see any evidence of ideation (wishing for, planning, previous attempts, etc). Not saying it doesn't exist, just that I don't see evidence in any of the materials we have to work with thus far. Finally, the water tank is such an unlikely vehicle for suicide, when pills and a rooftop and many other options are available. And as others have said, assuming investigators had searched the roof when she originally went missing, it could be safe to say the tank was sealed at that time.

I really think the tank being open or sealed is the major key to determining suicide/accident vs homicide/foul play. If open, one has to wonder if her disappearance was investigated properly from the get go, or if she ended up in the tank sometime after she disappeared. If closed, it definitely indicates another party being involved.

 

[prufrock]

What can we learn from thinking about the lid to the tank?

First, from the pictures, we can see that the lid is removable, not hinged. Has anyone who is researching these roof tanks gained any insight as to what this lid may be like? Was it made of metal, or could it have been fiber glass? Was it latched somehow or did it just fit snugly enough that it would stay in high winds but still be easy enough to remove?

Has anyone noticed the lid in any of the photos? I have not.

If the lid was replaced and intact, from I want I can gather about it, there would have to have been another person to replace it. The presence of another person would be a strong indicator of foul play.

If the lid were off or broken at the time her body was discovered, this would make it possible that her presence in the tank was either accidental or intentional, but unaided by another person.

Therefore, when the police say that there is a chance that her presence in the tank was accidental, it would appear that the cover was found off the tank or damaged enough that someone could have gone through it.

Further information about the condition and location of lid would highly influence the likelihood that someone else was involved, and also the likelihood that she could have somehow ended up in the tank through her own actions.

This makes the tank cover a fertile area of inquiry.

 

[anansie]

True, but then it would have been more of an accident :great: Sorry, just arguing semantics! You make a good point. However, if Elisa was hypothetically in the tank and no one was keeping her there, and she still had nominal strength left, "water leaping" is not hard to do. Assuming water levels were at 3/4 of course. Also didn't someone mention there was a ladder inside the tank for cleaning? Correct me if I'm wrong.

The picture here showing the inside of the tank did not seem to show there was a ladder inside.

http://matchbin-assets.s3.amazonaws...assets/1361522177320201302220032556_46318.jpg

Though in my search on Google to find anything about ladders on the inside of water tanks, I found this.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=7LbQXdCyodoC&pg=PT254&sig=5N6B6y3eK9KkMVxUC0ojuAx6Sio&redir_esc=y

It says that in warmer climates tanks usually have internal ladders, but in colder climates, the tanks won't because of the risk of moving ice forming in the water stored these tanks damaging these ladders.

 

[fred&edna]

I keep ruling out suicide as the dogs would have tracked her scent to the water cistern... or at least hit on some scent of her on the roof.

ETA: I think this rules out accidental, too (jmo)

 

[Sillybilly]

Whew, lots of catching up to do today.

I haven't had the time to go through the tumblr account 100%, but preliminary observation was that I didn't see any pics of family or hometown. Anyone else see any?

 

[esuma]

I'm new here and I've found this case interesting. From what I think:

About the elevator video, it seems like someone is in the hallway to her right but knows there is a camera in the elevator so does not want to pass by.
She knows there is a camera in there too and when she notices it does not move, she goes out. She thinks of doing sign language to the camera, but she doesn't want to make it obvious to the person that is in the hallway. So she does some hand movements to make the person think that she is weird and she throws in some sign language in there.

I've read parts of her tumbler, and found that a year ago she failed 2 courses. She said school is stressful and I have the feeling she was put on academic probation by UBC, which means the university can kick her out, go to a different school to get her grades back up and then reapply back. This could be a bit too stressful for her to handle so she might have went to California to take a break or look for other education options.

 

[BuzzieCat]

True, but then it would have been more of an accident :great: Sorry, just arguing semantics! You make a good point. However, if Elisa was hypothetically in the tank and no one was keeping her there, and she still had nominal strength left, "water leaping" is not hard to do. Assuming water levels were at 3/4 of course. Also didn't someone mention there was a ladder inside the tank for cleaning? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Please see the first link that Californiared3 posted below. If this is an accurate picture of the inside of the tank, I'd think it'd be hard to get out. Depends on how much water was inside at the time I guess. I agree it wouldn't have to be suicide - she could have gotten in for a lark and then couldn't get out, or someone put her in there.

I bet, just speculation on my part, that they could tell from the autopsy whether or not she had inhaled or swallowed water but are just not releasing that information.

The Chinese media is covering this much more than the Western counterparts.

Here is the water tower....inside....after the body was removed....

http://matchbin-assets.s3.amazonaws...assets/1361522177320201302220032556_46318.jpg

More graffiti images of the water tower...a better perspective:

http://matchbin-assets.s3.amazonaws...assets/1361522179123201302220032567_46318.jpg

<snipped for space>

ETA: Unfortunately I don't know for sure whether or not this is really the water tower on the Cecil. Temperatures in LA can get down to freezing, can't they?

 

[branwynbreeze]

I keep ruling out suicide as the dogs would have tracked her scent to the water cistern... or at least hit on some scent of her on the roof

That's the thing that keeps me from considering suicide or accidental death. I was thinking she hooked up with others staying there and might have gone on roof to look at city lights. After having a few drinks perhaps, they check out the tanks and EL playfully states she could fit thru lid space. Others either do not agree or dare her, but dogs did not pick up scent. I cannot remember when they searched place w/dogs, we did have a bit of rain could that have affected scent?

 

[fred&edna]

From this pic, you can see the ladder that leads on top of the elevator / maintenance building that is next to the water tower.

One can simply climb the ladder, assuming he is carrying a duffel / body bag and then jump down from the top of the elevator / maintenance building to the top of the water tower.

Assuming this would be at night when everyone is sleeping as likely not to get caught.

I'm assuming its illegal to lock fire escapes...because they are there for that purpose? To escape during a fire...., so I'm safely assuming that the ladders leading up to the roof are all accessible right?

[/QUOTE]


I'm liking this theory more and more!

 

[summer_breeze]

Please modify your posts to say "C" word or "P" word for the graffiti phrase going forward.

I think we will all get the idea.

 

[Sillybilly]

True, but then it would have been more of an accident :great: Sorry, just arguing semantics! You make a good point. However, if Elisa was hypothetically in the tank and no one was keeping her there, and she still had nominal strength left, "water leaping" is not hard to do. Assuming water levels were at 3/4 of course. Also didn't someone mention there was a ladder inside the tank for cleaning? Correct me if I'm wrong.

According to Capt Moore of the Fire Dept, no ladder inside:

from:
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/world/archives/2013/02/20130220-195344.html

Moore said the eight-foot-high tank in which Lam's body was found after she'd been missing for three weeks had ladders on the outside and hatches without locks on the top. There were no ladders inside the tanks.

 

[Buckeye lady]

Interesting. I have seen Drive, but I'm not sure what kind of pilgrimage you can do. What was in the movie...Restaurant, the strip club, the little hotel, the pawn shop, and the beach?

Not making any connections here.

She probably meant a bus tour from one of the hotels to Hollywood or somewhere. San Diego has tours you can go on. They pick up at some of the hotels. We went on one to Tijuana from a hotel in Mission Valley, near San Diego. That would be a safer way to see sights if you are alone.

 

[anansie]

*If* it was an accident, and if it happened late at night, maybe it was too dark to see if there was a ladder, and she went in the tank assuming there was a ladder to get out ... that's if she was just getting in for a swim or a dare from her rooftop mates. Who, by the way, if they were actually present, would be *advertiser censored**ho**s for not telling security or seeking help for her once it became apparent she wasn't coming back out.

And this is just another theory... besides the murder one.

 

[Sillybilly]

I wonder why Interpol is involved in this particular case when it hasn't been classified as a criminal act. Canada and the USA usually work pretty well together, and other than being international, it's not like we have a suspect or fugitive, and I don't see anything in their criterion that would necessarily explain their involvement:

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/interpol/index-eng.htm

 

[fred&edna]

That's the thing that keeps me from considering suicide or accidental death. I was thinking she hooked up with others staying there and might have gone on roof to look at city lights. After having a few drinks perhaps, they check out the tanks and EL playfully states she could fit thru lid space. Others either do not agree or dare her, but dogs did not pick up scent. I cannot remember when they searched place w/dogs, we did have a bit of rain could that have affected scent?

It appears the search with dogs was early on.

This article is dated 2/20/13

"Los Angeles police investigators searched the roof of the Cecil with the aid of dogs when Lam was reported missing about three weeks ago. Lopez said he didn't know if the tanks were examined."


http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-body-water-tower-20130220,0,3005517.story

 

[Marlon]

Hmm.. Regarding to the grafittie again ( and yea ii will now ofcourse not use the bad words, excuse me for that back there.

But,..about the graf,.. Im sry to bring it up again.

Suma is also a Fiji god.
Fecto is an antibiotic

This is sick,.. "God desinfect her ****"

I wonder whats the crack with that.

 

[matou]

I wonder why Interpol is involved in this particular case when it hasn't been classified as a criminal act. Canada and the USA usually work pretty well together, and other than being international, it's not like we have a suspect or fugitive, and I don't see anything in their criterion that would necessarily explain their involvement:

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/interpol/index-eng.htm

Maybe there is the possibility of a witness or suspect who was staying at the hotel who has left the US and is a citizen of another country?

 

[BuzzieCat]

The interesting thing about the graffiti to me is that it indicates that people do get up there unauthorized and play around.

 

[LaborDayRN]

An interesting scenario, but not likely.

CBSLA - the news outlet based in Los Angeles first broke the news live via aerial coverage on the rooftops, reporting a maintenance worker discovering Elisa Lam's body in the water tank (they didn't identify her body as Elisa in the beginning, just said a woman's body) and said that the body inside was nude, and floating face up in the 3/4 full water tank.

And besides that, you're missing one crucial point:

How did Elisa Lam get up the rooftops if the door is locked and secure with an alarm system?



I would like to ask this person as well, figuring out how they managed to get up the rooftops on Feb.14th 2012 -

Cecil Hotel - YouTube

Respectfully BBM. I think there have been quite a few video's posted of people who had no problem at all getting on the roof of this building. I used to work in a building that people would leave a small piece of cardboard in the door to keep it from locking. Employee's would go up there to smoke. I know the hotel reports the door has a locked and has an alarm system, but that doesn't mean it's always used appropriately.