CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

[ThinkHard]

I like this idea. Are such blueprints available in the city's library?

Good question.

The reason I was wondering, is because could someone have chosen which tank to put her in, by knowing which water tanks where not leading to their own water sources?

 

[Turk February]

So you think some one ordered her into a tank over mugging her? That doesn't sound like a very strong motive to me.

What did he mug of hers? She had no purse, she was wearing basketball shorts, which may not even have pockets, and a hoodie with little pockets. It's 2am and she just about walking around in her pajamas. What could she possibles have on her that's worth mugging and murdering her for?

One question:

How did you know it was 2am in that CCTV video again?

Do you have a definitive source to link?

 

[esuma]

A lot of interesting information in the Chinese forum.

http://bbs.tianya.cn/post-free-3077181-100.shtml

 

[ThinkHard]

Snipped:


Hello, I've been hidden and lurking in this thread for some time

After reading this post and another previous post around 5 pages back, I would like to ask if any one considered the scenario that :
(1) Elisa wasn't dead when she was placed in the tank
(2) The water tank wasn't 3/4 full (i.e. only 1/4 or 1/2 full) so she wouldn't have drowned immediately
e.g. water levels go up and down since water is continously used..

--> Therefore, could she survived for one day (or two/three or more) before dying?
She has no shortage of water to drink...and death would be hypothermia or drowning if water levels rise above a certain level

How often does a frequently used water tank fill up to a level where she has to begin to swim?

Even with water temp btw 50-60 degrees she would have reached hypothermia and died within 1-6 hrs.

 

[Socrates]

I don't see her as being playful either, but here's a smile:

Doesn't it look playful when she sort of hops out of the elevator? And does a kind of two-step back in to the elevator and back out again? It looks to me like the kind of thing kids do when they're amusing themselves.

I'm not sure how she felt internally, but I can see how one might think she's kind of playing at that point, as the body language expert thinks.

For the most part, I think his analysis is plausible.

What's strange to me is that Elisa seems to cycle through various different and even contradictory emotions fairly quickly in a short video, and possibly with no one else around: confidence, anxiety, playfulness, calm.

 

[fred&edna]

I too would appreciate a translation of what they are saying on the chinese websites.

They do seem to be demonstrating that when Elisa was standing outside the elevator she was standing directly in front of the mirror opposite.

They also have a large red dot on one of the rooms.

Is this Elisa's room?

And interestingly there is a red circle marked on the floor a few feet away from the elevators.

Also, it appears they are mentioning the length of time the elevator door stays open. (just what I get reading the google translation)

 

[ThinkHard]

One question:

How did you know it was 2am in that CCTV video again?

Do you have a definitive source to link?

Sorry Turk, no I don't, what I should have said was roughly 2am, I think someone mentioned the time stamp on the video is closer to 1:23 am

 

[Peace777]

Loving Hut is run by Ching Hai - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I guess the leader also goes by the title "The Supreme Master Suma Ching Hai" .Wasn't the word "suma" on something by the water tanks? Weird to say the least Hmmmm

 

[FutzBucket]

So you think some one ordered her into a tank over mugging her? That doesn't sound like a very strong motive to me.

What did he mug of hers? She had no purse, she was wearing basketball shorts, which may not even have pockets, and a hoodie with little pockets. It's 2am and she just about walking around in her pajamas. What could she possibley have on her that's worth mugging and murdering her for?

I believe it didn't start as a mugging. It started as a "who the heck are you". I believe she was on the 14th floor by mistake (possibly mixing 4 with 14), and she went to the wrong room, thinking it was her room. The occupant to that room flipped out when someone tried to enter, she he followed her to the elevator to find out who the heck she is.

He finds out she's just a girl, so he then mugs her and tells her to leave. She doesn't leave, so the suspect realizes that this girl knows his face and where he lives, and while he didn't really take anything from her, he did pull a gun on her, so he then marches her to the tank and orders her inside.

I know, it seems a very petty reason to kill someone, but you need to realize the area she was in. If you go to a ghetto and start trying to enter people's homes, chances are someone is eventually going to kill you.

I think she made a simple mistake, and she went to the wrong room, and the occupant of that room killed her, because the occupant was your typical resident in the Cecil Hotel, meaning he was mentally ill, a drug addict, or both.

 

[Borris]

One question:

How did you know it was 2am in that CCTV video again?

Do you have a definitive source to link?

I think it was middle of the night only because there is no one around on any of the floors waiting for the elevator except her.

I also think it was at night because of the way she's dressed, loose clothing, basketball shorts, to sneak a shower or bath at a clean floor instead of the grimy bathrooms in the low-income unkempt floors - if she was staying on one of those floors.

By the way, in the video I think she's counting the days she stayed at the hotel.

 

[Doruk]

Even with water temp btw 50-60 degrees she would have reached hypothermia and died within 1-6 hrs.

What's your scientific proof behind this assertion?

 

[LI-LI]

I believe it didn't start as a mugging. It started as a "who the heck are you". I believe she was on the 14th floor by mistake (possibly mixing 4 with 14), and she went to the wrong room, thinking it was her room. The occupant to that room flipped out when someone tried to enter, she he followed her to the elevator to find out who the heck she is.

She came from her room on the 4th floor why went up to 14 and mixed it up with her floor?

If that was the case, then it could be very easy to find out the killer, just compare the location of her room on the 4th floor with the one on 14th.

Still, there was no evidence that she was killed on the 14th, she could be brought down to 10 or 11, etc and got killed.

 

[morphee]

Personally I think the Ching Hai angle is a dead end. As someone who has patronized Loving Hut in MA several times and other vegan establishments over my on and off again vegetarian life, they do have some unusual literature and DVDs that they give away freely. However, I've never felt pressured to "join" any sort of movement. The aim of not killing animals seems genuine, but I'm trying (!) to go to bed and don't have the energy to research further. IMHO, I can't see any connection to EL's death.

 

[ThinkHard]

I guess the leader also goes by the title "The Supreme Master Suma Ching Hai" .Wasn't the word "suma" on something by the water tanks? Weird to say the least Hmmmm

Is interesting. But could just be a form of summa meaning highest honor, as in summa *advertiser censored* laude.

But I did google define suma and found this

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/suma

Which is interesting considering a certain criminal sex offender is said to be of Mexican decent.

 

[broccoli]

Good question.

The reason I was wondering, is because could someone have chosen which tank to put her in, by knowing which water tanks where not leading to their own water sources?

The one she was in is the only one with extra pipes coming from the top. I think this is the pressure tank, while the other three are the wells. When water is used in the hotel, it comes from the pressure tank. When the water level is low, the tank is automatically refilled by one of the adjoining well tanks.

 

[Fei]

Some netizen was making fun of the OP (ID: VB调&#26597 of that thread, claiming the OP was actually the murderer. The pics showing the laptop and stuff were taken by the OP before they started their "investigation".

The girl in the black outerwear is said to be EL, the pic is assumed to be a self-portrait of EL in one of the hotels she stayed, and I remember vaguely it's mentioned somewhere the pic was obtained from one of her social media accounts but I don't remember which ... tumblr? FB?or....?

A lot of interesting information in the Chinese forum.

http://bbs.tianya.cn/post-free-3077181-100.shtml

Anyone know what is the picture about? Any reference to EL? Where was it found?

Chinese reporters/investigators going through the fire escape:

 

[FutzBucket]

She came from her room on the 4th floor why went up to 14 and mixed it up with her floor?

If that was the case, then it could be very easy to find out the killer, just compare the location of her room on the 4th floor with the one on 14th.

Still, there was no evidence that she was killed on the 14th, she could be brought down to 10 or 11, etc and got killed.

I agree! I think it's an occupant that was living on the 14th floor, and chances are it's a person who lives in a unit that is located in a similar location to where EL's room is on the 4th floor.

I don't believe she was killed on the 14th. I believe she was ordered to climb into the tank, and the suspect closed the lid on her and simply forgot about her.

I believe she died in that tank that night, within hours, due to hypothermia.

 

[ThinkHard]

What's your scientific proof behind this assertion?

Well I've sailed all my life, raced dinghies in college in new england, and have qualification in off shore survival skills, because I worked on super yachts, which you learn all this stuff in training...but since I can't prove any of that to you...

I will google search a source just for you.

 

[ThinkHard]

What's your scientific proof behind this assertion?

Here you go

http://southwestpaddler.com/docs/hypothermia.html

Scroll down to water temp exposure chart

 

[Borris]

I agree, I'm leaning toward the fact that it doesn't have anything to do with her death other than perhaps she was grabbed while in route to wherever she was going when she left the elevator or perhaps someone saw which room she came out of or went into and later found a way in himself. Although she may have been spotted leaving her room earlier in her stay and someone noticed she was alone or it could be an employee that knew she was booked in her room alone. In any regard I highly doubt it should be considered abnormal that she left the room without glasses and was on a floor other then the Stay floors. We don't know which floor she booked on and can name a # of reasons why she wouldn't need glasses..

I really don't understand the importance to some, of her not wearing glasses. She's plastered all over Google without glasses, even at her graduation.