CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

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...I don't know her family. I know some things she's told me about them but I've never met her parents or sister before or been inside their home. I know she lived at home but I don't think they were the type to allow guests/friends over, I was at least never invited over. I mostly talked to Elisa online since I moved.

Binoculars, I'm very sorry for the loss of your friend. She was evidently a sweet girl.

Since you knew her, do you have any thoughts on her behavior in the video (assuming the girl in the video really was Elisa)? A body language expert posted his thoughts on it here:

http://www.bodylanguagesuccess.com/2013/02/nonverbal-communication-analysis-2313.html

Does what he says seem right to you? Or do you have a different interpretation? Do her movements seem characteristic for her or not?

I assume you hung out with her in person, not just over the internet. So you might have some special insight here.
 
I asked that question too. The police are very selective about what information they share. I can imagine there's a whole bunch we don't know at this time. So why release the video when a couple of screen captures would suffice.

There's something there the police want to convey with the release of that video.

IMO the likely reason for releasing the segment they chose to was likely
To also show her demeanour the day she went missing....
Even if the playback speed of the video is questioned, one has to ask why did she press all the buttons, which leads to ask what was her state of mind at the time of her last known sighting...

LE is likely asking the same questions as we are, it looks like she's interacting with someone, is she? Does anyone that was living on the top floor recall any noises that day?

The video likely doesn't show what floor she was on either , so LE is also trying to establish , like we are, was she on the 15th floor?

Anyways... Keep the discussions coming....
This case is sooooooo addicting! Unfortunately someone has lost their life!
 
Jan 31st: Elisa Lam last seen in Cecil hotel lobby.
Feb 1st: Parcel containing a note, a DVD and a bullet hole-riddled memento arrives at CNN. Chris Dorner discharged from U.S. Navy Reserve.

Could they be related in some way? Was Chris Dorner ever near the Cecil Hotel?


Highly doubtful that there is a link between Chris Dorner and Elisa Lam . The only connection I would think would be that the rooftop search by LAPD on 2/6 may have been a rushed job do to being exposed during the search. LAPD was understandably a bit paranoid during that time. Could be why the search dogs that were used didn't locate her body. But have no idea if that is truly the case. They say they searched and one would assume it was a thorough search but hey 13 days later a body was found in a tank on the same roof they claim they looked.
 
the scuff marks on the top of the tank.

Keep in mind it was raining lightly on the day the video was taken showing the dark scuff marks.

Other pics of the top of the tank without scuff marks were taken when it was dry.

Look at the video and see where the firemen place their wet rubber boots when they step over the pipe and onto the top of the wet tank.

Right where the scuff marks are.

its not from fingerprint dusting.

there is no visual sense in the video that the fire dept or anyone else was treating it as a crime scene. Instead they were climbing all over with their boots, putting their hands everywhere, "hey everybody, climb up and take a look at this".
 
There's nothing mysterious about Elisa stopping in Los Angeles. Any tourist planning a trip to California would most likely stop in San Diego, Los Angeles and San Francisco.

Staying at the Cecil/Stay on main is not really mysterous either. Judging by her blogs, Elisa was addicted to fashion. The Cecil is in/near the fashion district.
 
Can I just say excellent finds with the videos and photos from Asian resources? I'm impressed with the thorough exploration they are doing while our press is just ignoring this story. I'm stunned the hotel Cecil has still not secured the rooftop access and those beer bottles laying around trouble me; I'm hoping they weren't there when Elisa was discovered.
 
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Oh wow...



More comments made here by him:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...-draw-attention-in-china-canada.html#comments

https://www.facebook.com/plugins/co...inues-to-draw-attention-in-china-canada.html#

I hope someone can find him on FB and ask him questions. Too bad LAPD didn't do anything to help him...
 
Can Elisa had seen an episode of Haunting Encounters/Face to Face in last year? This team - which seems to be too irrational to me - were at Hotel Cecil searching for paranormal activity: http://www.biography.com/tv/haunted...-skid-rowkreischer-mansion-preview-7707715809

Who knows what could happen when she started asking questions about the earlier history of the Cecil Hotel, when we know that a lot of odd and strange people have their maintenance in these hotel rooms.

And that guy who claimed he had been working as an security guard at Cecil Hotel, he also had this video at Youtube which is from the cam in elevator 2: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbM5Mes9Ch8"]GHOST CAPTURE on elevator - YouTube[/ame]
 
My translation of page 98 of Chinese forum http://bbs.tianya.cn/post-free-3077181-98.shtml#ty_vip_look[VB调查]

Let's look at some photos of the 14th floor.

Opposite the elevator, there is a mirror, but because of the E shape structure of the building, the mirror isn't actually located in a position directly opposite the spot in between both elevators. In fact, a big part of the mirror is on the spot opposite the right elevator.

When one looks outward from the left elevator door, one can only see mostly an expanse of wall. One must actually stretch one's head out more when peering out of the elevator door to see the distinctive form of the right side of the building's interior.

In the 2nd and 3rd pics we show the corridors on both sides of the elevators on the 14th floor. We can see from these pictures that there are no surveillance cameras on either side of the corridors outside the elevators. I have personally searched through the entire of the 14th floor. I have not found a single surveillance camera in all the common areas of the 14th floor.

Even the hotel lobby did not appear to have any obvious surveillance cameras - though it is commonplace or standard for hotel lobbies in California to have surveillance cameras in the lobby. Perhaps I have just been unable to find them in the lobby and they were there all along.

But I have seen one surveillance camera at the back door of the hotel.

On the left side of the elevator, along the corridor, there is one residential/hotel room. According to my investigation, this hotel utilises all it's available space to the max, i.e. everywhere you go in the hotel, there are guest rooms everywhere, including even the area to the left of the lift, next to the stairs, etc.

THerefore I can deduce the following :

1) Some commenters on the web said Elisa could have been pursued by an assailant after she exited the lift, which I initially disagreed upon. Upon arriving here at the hotel, I have more reason to believe that it was very unlikely she was pursued by an assailant, as there are guest rooms in every single nook and cranny of the hotel. It is very unlikely that an assailant would risk being found out by pursuing Elisa in such a public space where any commotions can be easily heard by people staying in the rooms. And where if Elisa just screamed, someone would very possibly have heard her.

2) Someone suggested perhaps Elisa saw something she was not supposed to see - a crime being committed, etc. and therefore she was silenced by the perpetrators to keep her from ratting out to someone. I said the probability of that is also low. From being here at the hotel, I can't see how anyone would want to risk being discovered by commiting a crime in such a public area where there are guest rooms everywhere and the chances of discovery was so high.

So what could possibly have happened to Elisa?

Test 2 : Retracing Elisa's steps in the elevator

From our test, we conclude that it was most likely Elisa was conversing with someone standing on the right side of the elevator she was in. But then why did Elisa exit the elevator to the left? And walked off to the left?

(diagram shown of the lifts and surveillance camera/button panel positioning)

As we can see from the diagram, the up/down button panel outside the elevators was located in the wall gap in between both elevators. In the video, Elisa noticeably sticks her head out of the lift at first, looking to the right. This clearly shows there was something to the right of the lift that caused her to focus her attention there first.

Okay. Below is an explanation of what could have happened during Elisa's elevator video.

As we can see from the picture below (picture of corridor outside elevator and stairs shown), this hotel does not have designated stair well areas for stairs. In fact, in this hotel, it is more of an "open plan" design where the stairs are integrated into the common areas. Once a person exits the elevator, after walking a few steps (about 3 metres), whether to the left or to the right of the elevators, one bypasses a door and see the stairs straightaway.

(2 more pictures of the stairs)

As we can see, the floor heights in the hotel are pretty low, so it doesn't take much stair climbing to go from one floor to the next (takes about 3 seconds, if one walks quickly).

Test 3 :
It didn't take more than a minute for Brandon (my companion) to reach the top floor alarmed door by climbing the stairs from the 14th floor. From the 4th floor all the way up to the top floor alarmed door, it didn't take more than 4 minutes.

Conclusion of test 3 : If the murderer wanted to move Elisa's body up to the roof, going by the stairs is an extremely quick and effective way of doing so. But from the layout of the hotel floors, we know also that there are guest rooms all around the vicinity of the stairs. Hence it would be really easy to be discovered doing so by hotel guests, residents or staff.

Therefore we can deduce that the likelihood of Elisa being pursued by an assailant, etc. is very low, because the stairs are so close to the guest rooms that anything happening here would be easily detected or heard by anyone in the hotel.

We then went up to the roof and went up the water tank area.

We will continue to post pictures and observations as we have them ready.

====================

Some people online have said that if Elisa accidentally pressed Door Hold, she would have rectified it by pressing Door Close. So why didn't she?

We have already explained previously that Elisa thought there was someone else outside the elevator pressing the buttons. Normally, if we enter a lift and then the lift door opened again after we thought it would close, we would naturally assume someone is outside the lift making the door open up again. That's why Elisa stuck her head out to see if anyone was there. Besides, we have deduced that perhaps Elisa never really wanted to go downstairs in the lift anyway. Perhaps she was actually playing a game, having fun, or flirting with someone and playing hide and seek or hard to get.

Lastly can people please stop posting up fake scary pictures alleged to be of Elisa's. Someone just posted a picture saying that it was a self-portrait photo Elisa took of herself whilst in the hotel. If things are going to proceed along those lines, one might as well put on a face mask and take a photo of oneself, post it online and claim that this is a picture of the alleged "murderer" taken right after one has killed Elisa, with maybe someone posing as dead Elisa lying in the background of the photo with red lips that betray the authenticity of the poster!

I find it disgraceful that people out there are trying to spook our online readers with fake spooky pictures like this. I hope those who have seen those fake pictures not be put off by them and return to engage in robust discussion over what really happened to Elisa Lam.
 
Such a heartbreaking case. I have been following and have a few thoughts. I think it would take a herculian effort for a person to put themselves in one of those water tanks with the lid closed. I have heard that when a person is in psychosis they are capable of all kinds of behaviors that normally they would not do. They only real evidence that points to a psychotic break is the elevator video. I have watched that video over and over. At first I did think mental illness. Then I broke up what I was seeing and realized the only part that made me think mental lillness was her flailing arms and odd postures when she steped out of the elevator and went toward the left. However, I realized that all we get to see is less then a quater of her body. Thus, we are forced to have our minds fill in the rest. Essentially, it is not something that anything can really be derived from. We don't know if there was a person in the hall behind her or was simply doing abracadabra elevator work or being tickled by someone behind her or being threatened. We just don't know. the full views in the elevator are really IMO not that abnormal at all. The pushing all the buttons is odd, but if ever time she has tired to use this elevator over the last few days it has not worked correctly maybe she had taken to just pushing them all and hoping for the best, lol. I think her clothes are going to be big clues. Where are those clothes? If she was nude in the tank they should be either in her room or by the thank if her death was accidental. Judging from the condition of that hotel I do not think cleaning up the roof was a high prority job so hopefully the clothes and shoes were not simply tossed. That is always a possiblity. If she had the clothes on than an accident while in an altered state is more likely. So where are the clothes.

mjak
 
the scuff marks on the top of the tank.

Keep in mind it was raining lightly on the day the video was taken showing the dark scuff marks.

Other pics of the top of the tank without scuff marks were taken when it was dry.

Look at the video and see where the firemen place their wet rubber boots when they step over the pipe and onto the top of the wet tank.

Right where the scuff marks are.

its not from fingerprint dusting.

there is no visual sense in the video that the fire dept or anyone else was treating it as a crime scene. Instead they were climbing all over with their boots, putting their hands everywhere, "hey everybody, climb up and take a look at this".
I must take a look on that mark. And I agree with you about the crime scene on the roof, it seems like they are using the roof like an youth recreation center! I just saw some new photographs from the roof - taken in yesterday by some chinese youngsters - and no sign of yellow marks. Even the door to the service room stood open and empty bottles laying beside the water tank. I think it is an disgrace by the LAPD, every single inch of that roof should be blocked!
 
I agree. IMO, although it is all interesting, this kind of thing derails the thread. It's no longer a sleuthing site and more a fantasy/ghost story/Illuminati conspiracy thread. It's not helpful. It's also not Websleuths. And it's fast making it unproductive and unpleasant to visit the thread looking for new info or logical theories.

Everyone has something interesting to say but I think it would be more productive if we kept the conspiracy theory and supernatural stuff off the threads.

I couldn't agree more. I was very active in this thread from the beginning but am having a difficult time reading it now. It's really frustrating and I'm hoping new info will be released soon because some of these "theories" are just out of hand.
 
Oh that's good. Answered a good few questions then :)

In case anyone hadn't watched the video yet... here's a summary.

The LAPD are saying no obvious signs of trauma on her body, therefore the toxicology tests will tell more

They released that particular CCTV footage before Elisa was found dead. They released that video because they were hoping somebody would have seen her, told them where she was, and they would be able to find her somewhere. They chose that video because in the video it clearly shows Elisa's most "current" appearance, as all of the pictures they could find of her were old photos and as you can see, her most "current" look does not look very much like her old photos.

The release of that video was in no way originally intended to solve a homicide case (or at least that was what I concluded from hearing what he said). It was for a missing person's case.

There are many rumours floating around in media saying the LAPD have narrowed down a suspect, etc. He dispelled those rumours saying that right now, they are ruling her death as "inconclusive".

It's quite telling that there seems to be absolutely no indication in what he says that they are treating this as a murder... it might be a possibility in their minds, I don't know. But they are certainly not letting up on that. Not to me anyway.

So it remains to be seen now.... waiting anxiously for toxicology reports.

This just reminds me a little of when Amy Winehouse was found dead in her room, there was so much speculation over how she died. Then toxicology reports show she had too much alcohol in her system and the likely cause of her death was alcohol poisoning.

We will just never know about Elisa, would we? This is gonna be a long 6 - 8 weeks.
 
More comments made here by him:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...-draw-attention-in-china-canada.html#comments

https://www.facebook.com/plugins/co...inues-to-draw-attention-in-china-canada.html#

I hope someone can find him on FB and ask him questions. Too bad LAPD didn't do anything to help him...


You know looking at his facebook page and his post in the LA Times things don't jive. He's young for sure. I could easily see his LA Times posting as a troll job.

The name Alvin Taylor the offender comes up on a conspiracy website 4 days earlier. Nate could have easily read that and wove it into his tale.
 
So the stuff about the four broken limbs is false.

As for the reason for releasing the video, it's a bit weird. Has she really changed that much since the pictures were taken? At least it would explain why she looks like a different person in the video.
Definitely false. The Oscar Pistorius case is another big example of how media can twist and turn facts to make a "good story". Rumours reported as truth, etc.
 
I couldn't agree more. I was very active in this thread from the beginning but am having a difficult time reading it now. It's really frustrating and I'm hoping new info will be released soon because some of these "theories" are just out of hand.
For conspiracy theorist enthusiasts, there are forums more suited to that sort of discussion. Like the David Icke forums for instance. I dip in there now and then to hear some of it, lol

I agree these things don't seem really relevant to this case.
 
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