GA GA - Katherine Janness & Dog Bowie Fatally Stabbed - Piedmont Park, Atlanta, 2021 #5

[concernedcitizen706]

Actually I was trying to say that Emma would have been caught on the CA camera as she arrived looking for KJ.

I misread a post above that said, that EC entered the park near Argonne Street. I went back and I see now, he wrote that it was in his opinion. EC probably took the path that Katie took, as seen on her cell phone. She only would have been caught on camera if she entered through the Charles Allen gate. If she went along the path right inside the park, she would not have been caught on camera. I'm not sure if it was determined that she went through the gate, maybe I missed it.

 

[RetLawyer]

I misread a post above that said, that EC entered the park near Argonne Street. I went back and I see now, he wrote that it was in his opinion. EC probably took the path that Katie took, as seen on her cell phone. She only would have been caught on camera if she entered through the Charles Allen gate. If she went along the path right inside the park, she would not have been caught on camera. I'm not sure if it was determined that she went through the gate, maybe I missed it.

I don’t think KJ’s phone showed EC what route KJ took. EC was using the Find My Phone feature which showed her where KJ’s phone was, which was just inside the CA & 10th St entrance. I believe that EC has indicated that she entered at CA & 10th and very shortly saw what turned out to be Bowie. Also, JMHO, I don’t think KJ would have walked along the parallel path to 10th; too dark. I am not convinced APD would or has released CCTV video of KJ or EC entering PP. I don’t think the APD wanted or still want the timeline public.

 

[PrairieWind]

I misread a post above that said, that EC entered the park near Argonne Street. I went back and I see now, he wrote that it was in his opinion. EC probably took the path that Katie took, as seen on her cell phone. She only would have been caught on camera if she entered through the Charles Allen gate. If she went along the path right inside the park, she would not have been caught on camera. I'm not sure if it was determined that she went through the gate, maybe I missed it.

I believe EC stated she brough up the find my phone app and it didn't first show KJ so she just started looking on routes that KJ often took. Then the app showed KJ's phone in the park, not moving and she went there. She mentioned seeing Bowie as soon as she entered the gate, so i am assuming she walked/rode through CA gate.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Responding to you and Valiant's posts about the time. I have wondered about the time stamp as well. Was it accurate. But APD posted that photo and said that was the last time she was seen alive (at that time - we don't know if they have subsequently found other vid/photo evidence of her) and they have never come back and said the time stamp was wrong. Which, I feel they would do. So I am inclined (though not 100% certain) to believe the 12:09 time is correct.
As for KJ's activities. I do think EC has said she isn't certain about the 11:30 time, but I am guessing it is in the ball park. But yes, there is a lag between then and 12:09 in the Rainbow crosswalk. but in that photo, she and Bowie are crossing south to north. Henry's is on the north side. So they are not coming straight from Henry's or they would have already been on the north side of the street. So she and Bowie went somewhere after stopping to see Emma. Maybe just wondering. But then headed for the park at 12:09.

Now, that does bring up a question for me as to "why?" They had already been out on a long walk. So I also thought maybe KJ was just killing time to wait for Emma to get off so they could walk back together. But that seems odd too because she would have arrived at CA gate at 12:25-12:30, the time Emma would have been getting off work. Odd.

So according to prairie winds writing above here, police said the crosswalk photo was the last time Katie was seen alive. And I believe I read that in other places too. And it stands to reason if they had a picture of her going through the Charles Allen gate, I think they would have released that. The benefit of getting tips, is outweighed to hiding the precise time that she got there. The fact that police did not release that sort of picture, implies that she did not go through the Charles Allen gate.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

I believe EC stated she brough up the find my phone app and it didn't first show KJ so she just started looking on routes that KJ often took. Then the app showed KJ's phone in the park, not moving and she went there. She mentioned seeing Bowie as soon as she entered the gate, so i am assuming she walked/rode through CA gate.

Yes I agree with you now, that EC probably went through the Charles Allen gate, rethinking it based on the writing that's out there.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

I don’t think KJ’s phone showed EC what route KJ took. EC was using the Find My Phone feature which showed her where KJ’s phone was, which was just inside the CA & 10th St entrance. I believe that EC has indicated that she entered at CA & 10th and very shortly saw what turned out to be Bowie. Also, JMHO, I don’t think KJ would have walked along the parallel path to 10th; too dark. I am not convinced APD would or has released CCTV video of KJ or EC entering PP. I don’t think the APD wanted or still want the timeline public.

Well as far as I'm aware, they have that app where you can see where the other person is at all times. For example, EC could look on her phone, and see that Katie was not moving, so that means she's getting real-time data of her movements. I don't have that app, so I don't know if there's some historical feature, where you can go back and trace where they were.

-- As to what path Katie walked on 10th, she clearly crossed over into the park path, at some points before Charles Allen Gate, because first, she wasn't caught on Charles Allen gate cameras, and two, she ran into the park. If she was coming from the Charles Allen gate side, she would have ran out of the park.

And I believe somebody on here mentioned that there were several cameras on 10th Street that should have caught her walking on 10th Street. So that implies to me she crossed over into the park shortly after the rainbow crossing. And walked on the parallel park path. Yes I agree that kind of seems odd that she would walk on an isolated park path at night. However that path is literally right next to 10th street, within feet. So I'm sure that makes it feel safer.

The fact that she chose to walk on a isolated Park path, instead of on 10th Street, further supports the idea to me, that she was purposely trying to hide what she was doing and where she was going. I think it's possible that whoever she was trying to meet, specifically told her to avoid the cameras, and not to go through Charles Allen gate. She of course, thought he told her that for one reason, but of course he had a whole other reason in mind.

 

[Quell]

APD also said they were “getting close” two yrs ago and now…crickets. Which I get … but to the point of their stmt that the RNBWXWLK photo was the last photo of her alive…I doubt that. Maybe last photo known to them *at that time.*

Whichever way she walked to the park, there are businesses and homes, many of which have their own cameras and likely collect photos of folks who walked by that night…incl KJ…and possibly even the assailant.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

APD also said they were “getting close” two yrs ago and now…crickets. Which I get … but to the point of their stmt that the RNBWXWLK photo was the last photo of her alive…I doubt that. Maybe last photo known to them *at that time.*

Whichever way she walked to the park, there are businesses and homes, many of which have their own cameras and likely collect photos of folks who walked by that night…incl KJ…and possibly even the assailant.

I believe I read that it was the last known photo of her alive, and I doubt they're going to find more pics after they released it, like you suggest. As I'm sure they got all the photos early on. Highly unlikely that like 3 months later, somebody goes, oh I have a cam video. In addition they did not have many more opportunities to get pics of her, because she was only like a block away from her final destination from the rainbow crosswalk, which she got to, you know, only like 10 or 15 minutes later. The only other pics they could have gotten, was what cams were on that block, on 10th Street. Plus they already said all the park cameras were not working. So I think if they had more pics, they would have released them, because it would have helped with tips. If as someone pointed out, they didn't want the exact time known, they could have blurred out the time on pic. They didn't release anything else, because they didn't have anything else. So it's pretty clear thru logic, she did not go through the Charles Allen Gate. That's just my opinion.

 

[hexicon]

Factual question: were the Charles Allen gate cameras working? I thought there was an issue of non-functioning cameras.

Rest is JMO:
Everyone is entitled to their own theories but I don't think there is any evidence from which we can conclude that Katie was up to anything that would cause her to actively avoid ordinary public security cameras. JMO. I realize that we have to consider the possibility that she went out of her way to buy drugs, since that is a factor in so many homicides, but I believe that there is zero evidence for this. Likewise, the idea of a scheduled meet-up with no digital traces defies credulity IMO.

After following this case for a while, I have also backed away from the idea that this crime was premeditated by a skilled and careful criminal. My original theory is that either Katie or Emma had met a stalker through their food service jobs, because servers are obligated to be polite and an unbalanced person could misinterpret this friendliness, as well as being affected by homophobia. And others have theorized this was premeditated to gratify sexual sadism. I enjoy fictive theories as much as the next person (my personal tinfoil hat in other cases is espionage) but here I don't think we are dealing with an elusive Lecter-style criminal.

I think that this was a random attack by someone experiencing a psychotic event. The Point Defiance attack (committed by an Atlanta native who fled to ATL after the WA assault) is what changed my mind. The difference in WA is that the victim (who survived) and a witness were able to provide a description, resulting in a detailed sketch. The accused was involved with the mental health system and presumably with the sketch LE was able to connect the dots. Even if it wasn't the same perp (I don't know whether the WA guy was in ATL in 2021) I think it is a similar type of crime.

To me it seems much more likely that she was on a unplanned, meandering walk with her dog and was attacked at random by someone who was very disturbed and also very lucky at leaving minimal/no forensic evidence. I hope her family and friends receive peace and justice.

 

[Quell]

APD issued a statement re: “last seen” at 950a on 7/28/21. Imo, there’s no practical/logistical way for them to know, definitively, at that early point in the investigation, if that actually was the last photo of Katie and Bowie.

 

[Quell]

Factual question: were the Charles Allen gate cameras working? I thought there was an issue of non-functioning cameras.

Rest is JMO:
Everyone is entitled to their own theories but I don't think there is any evidence from which we can conclude that Katie was up to anything that would cause her to actively avoid ordinary public security cameras. JMO. I realize that we have to consider the possibility that she went out of her way to buy drugs, since that is a factor in so many homicides, but I believe that there is zero evidence for this. Likewise, the idea of a scheduled meet-up with no digital traces defies credulity IMO.

After following this case for a while, I have also backed away from the idea that this crime was premeditated by a skilled and careful criminal. My original theory is that either Katie or Emma had met a stalker through their food service jobs, because servers are obligated to be polite and an unbalanced person could misinterpret this friendliness, as well as being affected by homophobia. And others have theorized this was premeditated to gratify sexual sadism. I enjoy fictive theories as much as the next person (my personal tinfoil hat in other cases is espionage) but here I don't think we are dealing with an elusive Lecter-style criminal.

I think that this was a random attack by someone experiencing a psychotic event. The Point Defiance attack (committed by an Atlanta native who fled to ATL after the WA assault) is what changed my mind. The difference in WA is that the victim (who survived) and a witness were able to provide a description, resulting in a detailed sketch. The accused was involved with the mental health system and presumably with the sketch LE was able to connect the dots. Even if it wasn't the same perp (I don't know whether the WA guy was in ATL in 2021) I think it is a similar type of crime.

To me it seems much more likely that she was on a unplanned, meandering walk with her dog and was attacked at random by someone who was very disturbed and also very lucky at leaving minimal/no forensic evidence. I hope her family and friends receive peace and justice.

The jogger et al were seen from a camera from across 10th street which is directed toward the CA Gate. It’s the cameras inside the park that weren’t working. Nqs if there’s a camera just past the gate/inside the park or not. In total iirc there were 8 inoperable cameras.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Factual question: were the Charles Allen gate cameras working? I thought there was an issue of non-functioning cameras.

Rest is JMO:
Everyone is entitled to their own theories but I don't think there is any evidence from which we can conclude that Katie was up to anything that would cause her to actively avoid ordinary public security cameras. JMO. I realize that we have to consider the possibility that she went out of her way to buy drugs, since that is a factor in so many homicides, but I believe that there is zero evidence for this. Likewise, the idea of a scheduled meet-up with no digital traces defies credulity IMO.

After following this case for a while, I have also backed away from the idea that this crime was premeditated by a skilled and careful criminal. My original theory is that either Katie or Emma had met a stalker through their food service jobs, because servers are obligated to be polite and an unbalanced person could misinterpret this friendliness, as well as being affected by homophobia. And others have theorized this was premeditated to gratify sexual sadism. I enjoy fictive theories as much as the next person (my personal tinfoil hat in other cases is espionage) but here I don't think we are dealing with an elusive Lecter-style criminal.

I think that this was a random attack by someone experiencing a psychotic event. The Point Defiance attack (committed by an Atlanta native who fled to ATL after the WA assault) is what changed my mind. The difference in WA is that the victim (who survived) and a witness were able to provide a description, resulting in a detailed sketch. The accused was involved with the mental health system and presumably with the sketch LE was able to connect the dots. Even if it wasn't the same perp (I don't know whether the WA guy was in ATL in 2021) I think it is a similar type of crime.

To me it seems much more likely that she was on a unplanned, meandering walk with her dog and was attacked at random by someone who was very disturbed and also very lucky at leaving minimal/no forensic evidence. I hope her family and friends receive peace and justice.

I know everyone wants to believe that, because that makes them feel better. And usually that is the more common type of attack. But your theories have to match the evidence. And if you read any of what the killer did, reported from the autopsy, you will see that he went through a very detailed process to mutilate her. Showing the ability and knowledge of working with internal bodily organs. This is not your typical type psychotic killing. A crazy person is not going to have the mental organization to engage in all that precise mutualization. Including removing her butterfly tattoo. They will act out in anger, such as repeated stabbing, but I think that's usually pretty much it. You don't see them turn into internal surgeons on the spot.

For example, the Brian Kohberger case, which is kind of a similar case in terms of mutilation. Was he just a crazy psychotic? No, he was an intelligent criminal justice PhD student. And that is the type of profile we have to look into here. So yes, we do actually have to look for a Hannibal lecter type, because that is what the evidence suggests.

As to suspecting this might be a drug deal, I don't understand why everybody is protesting this so much. Do we not have a rampant drug problem in this country? Why is that so out of the realm of possibility. Do any of you know her personally and know that she does not do drugs? Considering drugs are very common in the music scene where she hangs out in. Do you know that she doesn't want some pain relief for some back pain she has, or maybe some anxiety she's experiencing? I don't think you know that. Not even her significant others would know that for sure.

I've said before, she could have been exchanging some other goods with him. You know like, maybe he owed her money and she wanted it back before her trip. But I think if that were the case, she would have told her girlfriend right beforehand. Like, oh guess what, so and so is going to give me that money back he owes me, I'm about to go meet him soon. But no, not a word. So that implies something to me. And exactly, the fact that there is no digital fingerprint, suggests me that the drug dealer does not want to give out his phone number. Which would make sense, right?

So I'm sorry to say, we have to be realistic here and suspect that drug use could be a possibility. I'm sorry if people find that insulting to her, but instead of worrying about that so much, maybe think more about catching the killer and maybe preventing the next person who could be a victim.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

APD issued a statement re: “last seen” at 950a on 7/28/21. Imo, there’s no practical/logistical way for them to know, definitively, at that early point in the investigation, if that actually was the last photo of Katie and Bowie.

Well that was already a week later right? They definitely would have had the chance to go through the cameras along 10th street, the park, and the Charles Allen gate by that time. So yes they would know by that point if that was her last picture they had, before she got into the park. We are talking about a small area here, don't forget.

 

[Quell]

Well that was already a week later right? They definitely would have had the chance to go through the cameras along 10th street, the park, and the Charles Allen gate by that time. So yes they would know by that point if that was her last picture they had, before she got into the park. We are talking about a small area here, don't forget.

The murder happened approx 9hrs prior to the statement APD put out at 950a. The murder occurred in the early hours of 7/28/21.

Further…
Butterfly tattoo?!
You sure about that?

We are talking about an area dense with single-family homes/condos/ two schools/bars/a spa/a coffee shop/bodega/numerous restaurants—all of this is within the north block of Piedmont from the rnbwxwlk to 12th street entrance and the 10th street east block to the CA gate.

 

[Kaley Smith]

I don't know if this interview with Emily Clark, her partner, was posted before. I sure hope they solve this brutal murder. The overkill makes me think the murderer hated women. If he knew she was lesbian, maybe that was part of the cause of his rage? So many non-heteros are still targets I'm afraid.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

The murder happened approx 9hrs prior to the statement APD put out at 950a. The murder occurred in the early hours of 7/28/21.

Further…
Butterfly tattoo?!
You sure about that?

We are talking about an area dense with single-family homes/condos/ two schools/bars/a spa/a coffee shop/bodega/numerous restaurants—all of this is within the north block of Piedmont from the rnbwxwlk to 12th street entrance and the 10th street east block to the CA gate.

Okay I googled it, it's a rainbow tattoo. I got it wrong, sorry. But I mean, I don't think what type of tattoo it is, is that important. And you are right, yes that picture was released shortly after the murder. Did they get any more? I can't say for sure. Well we know they didn't get any in the park. Did they get any on 10th Street? I mean even if they did, I don't know if it would make that much of a difference. Since we had the rainbow crosswalk pic right before it. I guess it might shed a little light on her mindset, knowing the exact route she took. But I think if they had the Charles Allen gate pic, they would have had it the same time as the crosswalk pic. Because that came from the same public source. Was it a traffic light pic too? I think it was. So if they had one, they had the other. And I think they would have released it early on, for tips. That's just my opinion.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

I don't know if this interview with Emily Clark, her partner, was posted before. I sure hope they solve this brutal murder. The overkill makes me think the murderer hated women. If he knew she was lesbian, maybe that was part of the cause of his rage? So many non-heteros are still targets I'm afraid.

That's interesting, I watched that. One thing it said was, Katie was a collector and she collected guitars and books, etc. So that's interesting, that could be something that somebody used to meet up with her. They offered to exchange some object with her.

Also it's not clear to me if they were going to take a plane that night, or the next day. Like when she said that night, could it mean the next night, because in her mind, they stay up late and it's like the same day? Not sure.

But one thing that really stuck out for me, was the past fire at their house. And that sounds like something that would fit into what I was thinking about. So yeah that fact strikes a little close. I would be curious to know if they ever observed any tampering incidents at their house, before this.

 

[Valiant]

I don’t think it was a traffic light picture in the cross walk. Traffic cameras and red light cameras don’t record in Georgia. So unless someone ran a red light and triggered a photo at the same time she was in the crosswalk, I suspect the image did not come from any traffic camera.

How Long Do Traffic Cameras Keep Footage of Accidents in Georgia?

In Georgia, live traffic cameras maintained by the Georgia Department of Transportation (GDOT) don’t store footage of car accidents for any period of time.

howe.law

 

[Cowabunga02]

A lot of people buy drugs and that does not mean they are bad people. We have to look at the facts here, that nobody was alerted to where she was going.

I know everyone wants to believe that, because that makes them feel better. And usually that is the more common type of attack. But your theories have to match the evidence. And if you read any of what the killer did, reported from the autopsy, you will see that he went through a very detailed process to mutilate her. Showing the ability and knowledge of working with internal bodily organs. This is not your typical type psychotic killing. A crazy person is not going to have the mental organization to engage in all that precise mutualization. Including removing her butterfly tattoo. They will act out in anger, such as repeated stabbing, but I think that's usually pretty much it. You don't see them turn into internal surgeons on the spot.

For example, the Brian Kohberger case, which is kind of a similar case in terms of mutilation. Was he just a crazy psychotic? No, he was an intelligent criminal justice PhD student. And that is the type of profile we have to look into here. So yes, we do actually have to look for a Hannibal lecter type, because that is what the evidence suggests.

As to suspecting this might be a drug deal, I don't understand why everybody is protesting this so much. Do we not have a rampant drug problem in this country? Why is that so out of the realm of possibility. Do any of you know her personally and know that she does not do drugs? Considering drugs are very common in the music scene where she hangs out in. Do you know that she doesn't want some pain relief for some back pain she has, or maybe some anxiety she's experiencing? I don't think you know that. Not even her significant others would know that for sure.

I've said before, she could have been exchanging some other goods with him. You know like, maybe he owed her money and she wanted it back before her trip. But I think if that were the case, she would have told her girlfriend right beforehand. Like, oh guess what, so and so is going to give me that money back he owes me, I'm about to go meet him soon. But no, not a word. So that implies something to me. And exactly, the fact that there is no digital fingerprint, suggests me that the drug dealer does not want to give out his phone number. Which would make sense, right?

So I'm sorry to say, we have to be realistic here and suspect that drug use could be a possibility. I'm sorry if people find that insulting to her, but instead of worrying about that so much, maybe think more about catching the killer and maybe preventing the next person who could be a victim.

And why are you so bent on insisting Katie was involved in drugs or other ‘late night’ behavior? Do you not know or have friends who are not drug users or other? Going by what we know and the theories In Our Opinions, there is no proof nor opinions that lean that way but yours, IMO. However, the APD is intelligent enough to look into that aspect. Individuals with any issues are not necessarily viewed as bad; we all have some kind of struggle.

 

[Quell]

I believe the photo of KJ in the rnbwxwlk was taken from this camera that sits atop the bldg that houses The Flying Biscuit.