CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #4

[AnotherCanuck]

I've been thinking today.

I believe her last post on her twitter was "SPEAKEASY"
So EL went to SPEAKEASY, "hoping no creeps will follow her" (late post on her tumbler)
It may be a creepy bar close to Cecil.
She got drugged with bath salts.
She went back to Cecil, body temperature shot up so that's why she wore shorts and flip-flops.
Negative effects of bath salts start to happen in the elevator.
She becomes too hot so goes up to the roof (or led there by someone) to cool off
Her clothes come off (this may not be true)
Sadly, had to go to a water tank (was the water cold?)

I actually find that post really interesting, and I hope LE is looking into it because that could explain a lot. It's an interesting theory about the bath salts, too...Though, how someone who apparently never really got drunk and didn't do any illegal drugs to anyone's knowledge would suddenly want to try them is beyond me. Unless she was forced to try them somehow...I have no idea how you actually consume "bath salts."

Also, if anyone is interested in her family's restaurant:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Pauls-Restaurant/124247057617720

http://www.urbanspoon.com/r/14/1501126/restaurant/Vancouver/Burnaby-North/Pauls-Restaurant-Burnaby

http://www.yelp.ca/biz/pauls-restaurant-burnaby

It sounds like a tasty restaurant...I think I might like to go by there and place some flowers or something.

 

[Chorley8]

Could it be this place "The Varnish"?

http://www.yelp.ca/biz/the-varnish-los-angeles-2

 

[Borris]

I know someone with bipolar disorder who became entirely delusional and irrational. Couldn't stop talking and gesticulating. Her family was able to talk her out of running down the street naked but that's where her mind was going. And that's what makes me think that this could a case of someone off their meds or their condition was triggered by alcohol or other drugs in combination with prescription medications for the treatment of bipolar.

I agree with this. She had wine, maybe on a date, and it mixed strangely with the 5 medications she was taking. Or else she went off her meds. Bipolar is close to schizophrenia. It was previously mentioned that friends on Reddit thought she might be schizophrenic.

 

[Conductor71]

<rsbm>

And therein lies confusion Conductor. Earlier in this case I posted a total of 3 links wrt the "classic drowning position" (being face down), but then came across the American Red Cross lifeguard manual which has a chart with one column referencing "face down" and the other "face up".

Sorry, I haven't had time to keep rummaging to find out why the discrepancies.

No offense, but we are talking two different things. A lifeguard manual is written describing a person's head position while they are struggling and near drowning. This is for the lifeguard in training to note signs of distress. aaI am referencing a corpse's head position from lecture notes from a University Dept of Forensic Medicine. I am thinking that if this guide states always face down and it is used in teaching forensics of bodies in water (we do not know she drowned-likely she did not unless unconscious first), I am more inclined to believe it than something or someone quoted by the media.

 

[Xavier]

I think one of the things that is odd in this case is the amount of info that were NOT hearing I mean where this crime happend and the fact that there's that creepy video then finding her where they did the people that were in the hotel drinking the water It all says a huge bizzare and mysterious murder that normally it would be all over the news and internet . Thats what it is for me at least is the amount of news were Not getting......One more thing does anyone know if thier was a lock on the lid of the water tank and if so then aren't we looking at a worker say a janitor . Someone with a key ?

Whether the water tank was locked, secured or not is a really hot topic and the Cecil Hotel would be in major violations if it was unlocked, unsecured

If the water tank was locked with Elisa in it, then you gotta assume someone had a key to unlock it...

I've also read -- if I can find it -- the tank was open, not closed...This would make LE believe she fell in on her own, because it's almost impossible to fall into it and shut the hatch door ...the tank's around 10 feet high and was 3/4 full when they found her

From what I've read there's no verification of the tank being locked or unlocked

I believe someone very, very clever is the perp, who's playing a cat & mouse game with everyone

 

[BunnyHop]

Question: she seemed to have a limited amount of money for travelling yet obviously wanted to travel. Why go to Toronto and THEN soon after head down to California? Seems to be a strain on her limited resources - how much time separated her return from Toronto from her departure to San Diego? Someone asked how she came to be on the George Stromboloulos TV set not sure if that got answered.

Did she fly to and from Toronto?
We know she stayed in a hostel on College Street in Toronto - by the way for those going over and over the word/name "Cecil" yes there is a Cecil street close to the hostel.
I realize some posts haven't liked the Ching Hai direction but IF we can find out that the farm she wanted to work on was linked to that movement and IF she visited the restaurant Loving Hut in Toronto and San Diego - that would be interesting and signficant IMO. I have emphasized that it does NOT mean that the movement is a cult - it sounds like there are many very idealistic aspects which would catch they eye of a spirited youth. Let's face it it is a fact that lots of young people disappear into groups some people call "cults" and never emerge again - I knew people when young who joined the Children of God (now The Family) and are STILL joining and in fact creating their own new groups.....forty years later. It is interesting to consider because they have the power to engineer things to some extent, they have money, power.

Good points, appreciated. Personally I like to look at it all. MSM (mainstream Media) is lame. JMHO. :fence:

 

[princessofmirth]

Whether the water tank was locked, secured or not is a really hot topic and the Cecil Hotel would be in major violations if it was unlocked, unsecured

If the water tank was locked with Elisa in it, then you gotta assume someone had a key to unlock it...

I've also read -- if I can find it -- the tank was open, not closed...This would make LE believe she fell in on her own, because it's almost impossible to fall into it and shut the hatch door ...the tank's around 10 feet high and was 3/4 full when they found her

From what I've read there's no verification of the tank being locked or unlocked

I believe someone very, very clever is the perp, who's playing a cat & mouse game with everyone

Which begs the question: Has said perp committed a crime here before and just elevated the crime?

 

[kingsway]

- She wrote on her blog she had bipolar
http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/autre

- She described many times being 'hypomanic' which is not a well known clinical term (meaning, I think she learned this from treatment)
http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/34350935794/adventures-in-hypomania-part-ii

- her medications definitely suggest as much. Mild depression would not necessitate what she's on.
http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/22304102762/more-its-still-odd-to-me-that-people-are-so
From the post:
Here is the cocktail of prescriptions I take for depression.

Effexor are the pink and red. After 2 years finally found the antidepressant that has made some difference.

Wellbutrin is the white thing. It’s unfortunately not covered by my student health plan so I have to pay the full price for it. I am so happy I have that health plan.

Next to it is dexedrine, perhaps known more popularly as Adderall. Apparently I have ADHD so shrinky dink has been so kind to prescribe some saying it will help with my concentration. I haven’t taken it yet but at this point….I shouldn’t resist.

The other one is lamotrigine because apparently I’m bipolar as well?

I wonder what will happen when I take these things long term. Will I ever not need them?

- Her symptoms seem to demonstrate this, too -- major ups and downs on the blog posts she authored, often not sparked by real-life events, or extreme reactions to life events

- I've read multiple comments from her friends who have said her parents downplayed or were in some denial about her condition

There's also this part:

There is no physical manifestation of my “illness.” If I were to stop taking it, the worst thing would be a headache.

Would I become psychotic and want to off myself? I doubt that very much. For other people, yes there’s a huge risk that will happen but I know I wouldn’t do anything rash like actually jump off a bridge. I’m too much of a coward. Instead I’ll just lie in my bed and let the days pass by. That’s my physical manifestation, sleeping for days in bed.

So apparently, she's done nothing crazy except lay in bed excessively when she's depressed. She has episodes of hypomania, so maybe she was more sociable than usual which put her at greater risk to be taken advantage of. But it doesn't appear she was suicidal, or would do dumb things like hide in a water tank she couldn't get out of. Or see ghosts. Or dead people.

 

[Sonoma Mommy]

If that was the case, would not it be easier for her to go to the lobby and inform the staffs there, instead of roaming around on some empty floors?

From what I understand, the staff is not too helpful or friendly...Maybe she did inform them and they suggested she check out floors with available bathrooms.

I think that was an excellent point, broccoli...she could have been describing the water/flooding on her floor with those spread out arm/hand gestures.

 

[Xavier]

Lam checked into the Cecil Hotel five days earlier, January 26, on her way to Santa Cruz, California, according to police in her hometown of Vancouver, British Columbia.

Why did it it take so long to find Lam?

Lam's parents reported the University of British Columbia student missing in early February. Her daily calls home stopped on January 31, police told reporters on February 6 at a Los Angeles news conference.

So it's assuming Elisa checked in at the Cecil/Stay Hotels on Jan 26

Her parents talk to her daily, but the communications stop on Jan 31, the night of the elevator mystery video...So she's in LA staying at the hotel for about 5 days and then on the 5th day her parents don't hear from her again


So it's fairly easy to assume she might've been killed or died on Jan 31 or Feb 1

 

[Borris]

No offense, but we are talking two different things. A lifeguard manual is written describing a person's head position while they are struggling and near drowning. This is for the lifeguard in training to note signs of distress. aaI am referencing a corpse's head position from lecture notes from a University Dept of Forensic Medicine. I am thinking that if this guide states always face down and it is used in teaching forensics of bodies in water (we do not know she drowned-likely she did not unless unconscious first), I am more inclined to believe it than something or someone quoted by the media.

Depends on how shallow the water is.

Brain Dev. 1997 Nov;19(7):499-501.
An autopsy case of bathtub drowning in epilepsy.
Osamura T, Fushiki S, Yoshioka H, Yamanaka T, Mizuta R.
Source

Department of Pediatrics, Kyoto Second Red Cross Hospital, Japan.
Abstract

We report an autopsy case of bathtub drowning in epilepsy. A 26-year-old female with mental retardation had been treated for refractory epilepsy. Her younger sister found her floating supine in the bathtub 45 min after starting bathing. Neuropathological examination revealed cerebral cortical dysplasia in the precentral gyrus of the left hemisphere, which had not been detected by MRI, suggesting the etiology of epilepsy. In bathtub submersion injury of an unidentified cause, neuropathological examination should be performed to reveal any lesion underlying epileptic seizures. Additionally, we present statistics on bathtub submersion injury in children aged 5 years or older in Japan based upon nationwide survey data obtained in 1991. Forty-seven percent of them had associated epilepsy or convulsive attacks and 71% died. It is necessary for epileptic patients and their families to understand that the risk of bathtub drowning can be minimized if proper precautions are taken.

 

[houndstooth]

Snipped because the only thing I want to comment on is...What does MSM mean? There are lots of abbreviations used here that i don't recognize and I can't find a list or anything.

Mainstream Media.

 

[Borris]

If the body died "on land" and the blood settled to the "back" and coagulated there - it would then act as a weight, keeping the body turned face up when the corpse entered the water.

 

[houndstooth]

Question: she seemed to have a limited amount of money for travelling yet obviously wanted to travel. Why go to Toronto and THEN soon after head down to California? Seems to be a strain on her limited resources - how much time separated her return from Toronto from her departure to San Diego? Someone asked how she came to be on the George Stromboloulos TV set not sure if that got answered.

Did she fly to and from Toronto?
We know she stayed in a hostel on College Street in Toronto - by the way for those going over and over the word/name "Cecil" yes there is a Cecil street close to the hostel.
I realize some posts haven't liked the Ching Hai direction but IF we can find out that the farm she wanted to work on was linked to that movement and IF she visited the restaurant Loving Hut in Toronto and San Diego - that would be interesting and signficant IMO. I have emphasized that it does NOT mean that the movement is a cult - it sounds like there are many very idealistic aspects which would catch they eye of a spirited youth. Let's face it it is a fact that lots of young people disappear into groups some people call "cults" and never emerge again - I knew people when young who joined the Children of God (now The Family) and are STILL joining and in fact creating their own new groups.....forty years later. It is interesting to consider because they have the power to engineer things to some extent, they have money, power.

That was me who asked about the George show. The response was that if the stage hands got the word he would appear and have photos taken with members of his audience.
Which was cool, I guess. But, it just made me wonder if that was the case,
why didn't she hang around and get her photo taken with him instead of just herself sitting in a "guest" seat. Ya know?

 

[Xavier]

Could it be this place "The Varnish"?

http://www.yelp.ca/biz/the-varnish-los-angeles-2

Yes, I recall seeing something on her tweets about the speakeasy near the Cecil, which I think you're correct The Varnish Speakeasy could be the place she was at

I think I also recall mentioning something about a few creepy, aggressive Mexicans around there too

Someone posted Elisa was taking 5 meds for a bi polar type of illness

My brother has this and when off his meds will make some wild gestures, which makes me wonder if she was just play acting alone on the famous elevator mystery video??

One poster pointed out on the elevator video it's possible to see reflections of someone else standing outside the elevator...these reflections show up on the inside of the elevator's steel doorway on the right side

 

[houndstooth]

What am I supposed to see? That is says "worker" There was only three types of people on that roof once the cops arrived, Cops Coroners and firemen, there were no hotel workers in that area for probably a 10 hours easy

I just have not seen the photos you have seen apparently of all these cops there. There wasn't even one in the photo you posted on the roof.
Just firemen. There is no proof the person standing on the tank is the coroner. You'd think there would be some that were with the crime scene team directing her removal and as I said before some media present taking photos of the ambulance and the scene at the Cecil.
It seems like it was kind of a big deal to miss. Every single media outlet.

 

[Sillybilly]

No offense, but we are talking two different things. A lifeguard manual is written describing a person's head position while they are struggling and near drowning. This is for the lifeguard in training to note signs of distress. aaI am referencing a corpse's head position from lecture notes from a University Dept of Forensic Medicine. I am thinking that if this guide states always face down and it is used in teaching forensics of bodies in water (we do not know she drowned-likely she did not unless unconscious first), I am more inclined to believe it than something or someone quoted by the media.

In fact, my earlier posts were maintaining the same position you are ... that the classic drowning position is "face down". I also linked to the same forensic article you did through google books. I then found the ARC Lifeguarding Manual that I previously linked to which had reference to a drowning "victim" being either face down or face up ... they were not talking about someone "struggling and near drowning". The specific headings are:

- Distressed Swimmer
- Drowning Victim - Active
- Drowning Victim - Passive

specifically "Drowning Victim - Passive ... face up or face down in water, submerged".

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...sBU-0D&sig=AHIEtbScyjmE2PPpTeGHHVDX2M7qD4nMSg

It's not about me substantiating or refuting my own position and/or yours. It is something that might be worthy of consideration that appears to be somewhat at odds to our established belief.

 

[bessie]

Snipped because the only thing I want to comment on is...What does MSM mean? There are lots of abbreviations used here that i don't recognize and I can't find a list or anything.

Here you go, AnotherCanuck. It's a link to the WS Lingo list.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5679344&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Websleuths Lingo[/ame]

 

[Xavier]

I'm wondering since guests at the Cecil have always complained about poor water flow, slow water, hot/cold water not working it seems to be a perpetual problem and the water flow issues probably were never corrected

Most hotels have the main water line valves in the basement and from my experience as an ex hotel manager, most waterline issues would be fixed in the basement or "catacombs" as we called it...so why did the maintenance worker check the water tanks on the roof? Was this person the perp?

I'm also wondering if this worker was on the clock on Jan 31st, when Elisa was last heard or seen?

And how would maintenance even be able to fix anything in the water tank, it's a holding tank for water...How would this worker get out of the tank to fix a problem inside it? Judging from the very tight small opening on top, it looks way too small for a ladder to fit in it?

Just guessing here, maybe I'm thinking aloud too much

A maintenance worker, checking on complaints about the hotel's water, found the 21-year-old Canadian tourist inside one of four water cisterns Tuesday morning, Los Angeles Police Sgt. Rudy Lopez said.

Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/nation...in-los-angeles-hotel-water-tank#ixzz2MGLXe2Fj

 

[jp111]

I noticed EL's blog published a new post on Feb 27. I am aware of tumblr's automatic queue function. If I am not mistaken, you can only stock up posts and configure it to publish in a frequency that would happen &#8216;daily&#8217;. Last time her blog published a post was on Feb 18. It seems her queue posts ran out on that day. It is odd that a new post was published 9 days later. It is the image of a tarot card of The Hermit. If you click the enlarged image, it is linked to a wiki page explaining the meaning of the card.

http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/archive