CA - Christopher Dorner kills 4 in tri-county rampage, Feb 2013 - #4

[Voice4theSilent]

I also heard the scanner comments wrt the burn. And it certainly sounded to me like they were talking about burning the place down. I also recall something about them not waiting for night fall. Since the shooting had stopped, I had wondered why they didn't just try to wait him out (since he did not have hostages). Otoh, I'm not LE, and do not know what their tactical procedures are.

Additionally, I didn't hear the claimed single shot. Just the scanner chatter saying there was a single shot and the discussion about the burn. I know initial reports stated he started the fire, and I had wondered how he could do that if he supposedly shot himself. That is, since the claim about the single shot comments came before the cabin began to burn. Then again, reports were all over t he place, and I had turned off the news shortly after the cabin went up in flames.

That said, I can see this, among other things, being a continued bone of contention btwn those who think the cabin was purposefully set on fire and those who don't. I admittedly lean in the direction that the fire was purposefully started.

Whatever the case may be, I admittedly do not see this reaching a resolution.

One of the things I keep going back and forth on when listening to the scanner is that it seems to me like the use of the word "fire" is being used to refer to the actual fire in the structure as well as firefighters. It gets confusing to me when I read it from that angle.

 

[i.b.nora]

http://www.loscerritosnews.net/2013...ly-about-being-targets-of-christopher-dorner/

Married LAPD Officers Phil and Emada Tingirides to talk openly about being ‘targets’ of Christopher Dorner

By Randy Economy

"LAPD Captain Phil Tingirides and his wife Sergeant II Emada Tingirides were listed in Dorner’s long winded rant and the two will talk “openly” about their experiences during the ordeal that dominated headlines around the world for more than one week."

*

"Beck plans to also update the media about the Dorner case during the event that is planned in at Police Administration Building on West 1st Street in Los Angeles beginning at 9 a.m.

Beck said that he will discussing the “reopening” of the investigation into Dorner at the press briefing."

 

[i.b.nora]

http://www.sgvtribune.com/news/ci_22614883/experts-weigh-use-tear-gas-dorner-case

San Gabriel Valley Tribune
Update: Experts weigh in on use of tear gas in Dorner case

By Andrew Edwards, Staff Writer
Posted: 02/18/2013 10:49:10 AM PST
Updated: 02/18/2013 06:05:27 PM PST

"Tactical deputies' decision to use pyrotechnic tear gas grenades at the conclusion of their confrontation with multiple murder suspect Christopher Jordan Dorner has aroused some suspicion that responders intended to burn their quarry alive, but retired law enforcement sources with command and training experience say available evidence does not support that conclusion."

A very long article...

 

[CountryGirl]

From the article:

In a telephone interview last week, Yale pharmacologist Sven-Eric Jordt, who has published research on tear gas, said pyrotechnic gas grenades can start a fire, but tear gas itself is not particularly flammable and the canisters are not typically used to start fires.

Jordt said the fire at the cabin was probably an accident. Larry Smith, a former Fontana officer who has also worked as a trainer for the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Academy, said Thursday he found the deputies' use of the gas grenades to be a smart decision.

 

[Voice4theSilent]

SGV Tribune Article
Experts Weigh in on Use of Tear Gas in Dorner Case: Updated

http://www.sgvtribune.com/news/ci_22614883/experts-weigh-use-tear-gas-dorner-case

A section of the above article (BBM):

"We used an allied agency's armored vehicle and deployed cold gas into the cabin," he said. "There was no response from the suspect. None. No movement. We felt that based upon his behavior, he was laying in wait for us. If we tried to enter the cabin, there would be another gun battle. A very close-quarters gun battle, so an entry on the cabin was not an option for the safety of our officers."

"We then made the decision to deploy (a) pyrotechnic chemical agent, which is much more effective in saturating the structure, and getting good saturation, a lot of gas and hopefully, to force Mr. Dorner to surrender or come out. He did not surrender," he continued.

In his online manifesto, Dorner declared "my own personal casualty means nothing" and threatened "you can not prevail against an enemy combatant who has no fear of death."

Herbert, however, said tactical deputies still gave Dorner a chance to turn himself in before SWAT members deployed gas grenades.

"Before we put that pyrotechnic chemical agent in, we made numerous PA announcements identifying him by name, asking him to surrender, telling him who we were and asking him to come out," Herbert told reporters. "And then the pyrotechnic chemical agent was inserted. As the fire continued to spread, when about a quarter of the cabin was on fire, we heard a distinct, single gunshot come from inside the house, which was a much different sounding shot from the shots when he had been shooting at us, which indicated to me that a different kind of weapon had been fired."

"Everything was done by the book and it was proper procedure," said Todd Widick, a former San Bernardino County Sheriff's deputy who currently runs a tactical firearm training school, Gun Shots Fire Arm Training, in Ontario.

"You use tear gas to get the suspect to exit period," he said during a phone interview. "After you give them verbal commands from the P.A., the next move is to shoot the tear gas."

So many of us on here have stated the same as my last bolded statement above. Everything LE did that day was proper protocol. Everything. If someone doesn't like the use of hot gas in such situations they need to try and change LE's ability to use it however complaining about LE doing their job per department and agencyprocedure and protocol isn't the way to go about it. :moo:

 

[CountryGirl]

LAPD will be holding a PC at 9am (PT)

 

[CountryGirl]

Vigil to be held for slain sheriff's detective, Jeremiah MacKay, in Yucaipa Tuesday

YUCAIPA, Calif. (KABC) -- The city of Yucaipa and its police department are planning a candlelight vigil in honor of slain sheriff's detective Jeremiah MacKay.


The vigil will be held in front of city hall Tuesday at 6 p.m.

 

[CountryGirl]

DORNER MANHUNT: Riverside officers had seconds’ warning of threat
Diaz said dispatchers were putting out the word about the Corona shooting at almost the same moment that Dorner drove up Magnolia Avenue and shot his officers.

“When Mike and his partner were shot, they were listening to that report,” Diaz said in an interview Thursday, Feb. 14. “I believe that he figured he was already 'hot' ... that all the cops would be looking for his truck, and that's what prompted him to do this preemptive thing against our officers.”

The affidavit, made public Tuesday at the request of The Press-Enterprise and the Los Angeles Times, details the quick succession of events that, in less than 10 minutes, claimed an officer’s life, wounded two others and triggered an intense hunt for a killer.

Affidavit Link

 

[shadowraiths]

DORNER MANHUNT: Riverside officers had seconds’ warning of threat
Diaz said dispatchers were putting out the word about the Corona shooting at almost the same moment that Dorner drove up Magnolia Avenue and shot his officers.

“When Mike and his partner were shot, they were listening to that report,” Diaz said in an interview Thursday, Feb. 14. “I believe that he figured he was already 'hot' ... that all the cops would be looking for his truck, and that's what prompted him to do this preemptive thing against our officers.”

The affidavit, made public Tuesday at the request of The Press-Enterprise and the Los Angeles Times, details the quick succession of events that, in less than 10 minutes, claimed an officer’s life, wounded two others and triggered an intense hunt for a killer.

Affidavit Link

This makes no sense.

Excerpted from the above affidavit ( emphasis added, mine link ):

LAPD Officers located Dorner and his vehicle a dark grey Nissan Titan pickup truck with CA license 8D83997 off Wierick Rd in Corona. LAPD Officers followed the vehicle to the area of Magnolia and the 15 freeway in Corona. While waiting for a backup to contact Dorner, the suspect vehicle stopped and Dorner exited firing multiple .223 caliber rounds from a rifle into the LAPD Officers vehicle. One of the officers received a grazing wound to his head. The vehicle was last seen fleeing eastbound Magnolia Ave from the shooting. An LAPD Officer positively identified Dorner as the suspect who shot at he and his partner.

[...]

The witness observed and RPD police unit pull up next to him in the #2 lane. The witness said he observed a camouflage colored truck stop just southeast of him in the left turn lane. The witness said the window of the truck was down and the driver pointed a rifle at the police unit. The witness described the rifle as a camouflage stock with a black barrel. The witness described the suspect as a black male, heavy set in his 30's to 40's wearing a camouflage long sleeve jacket. The witness said the suspect fired approximately 10 rounds from the rifle into the driver's side of the police unit. The witness said the police unit started to roll forward and he saw the driver of the unit slumped over. The witness said the truck fled north on Magnolia Ave. The witness made a u-turn attempting to follow the truck. The witness observed truck turn west on Central Ave where he lost sight of the suspect vehicle. The witness called 911 and returned to the scene. The witness was shown a six photo lineup where he identified Dorner as the person that looked most like the suspect. The witness said he was 45% sure.​

Does anyone, at all, see the problem here?

 

[CountryGirl]

This makes no sense.

Excerpted from the above affidavit ( emphasis added, mine link ):

LAPD Officers located Dorner and his vehicle a dark grey Nissan Titan pickup truck with CA license 8D83997 off Wierick Rd in Corona. LAPD Officers followed the vehicle to the area of Magnolia and the 15 freeway in Corona. While waiting for a backup to contact Dorner, the suspect vehicle stopped and Dorner exited firing multiple .223 caliber rounds from a rifle into the LAPD Officers vehicle. One of the officers received a grazing wound to his head. The vehicle was last seen fleeing eastbound Magnolia Ave from the shooting. An LAPD Officer positively identified Dorner as the suspect who shot at he and his partner.

[...]

The witness observed and RPD police unit pull up next to him in the #2 lane. The witness said he observed a camouflage colored truck stop just southeast of him in the left turn lane. The witness said the window of the truck was down and the driver pointed a rifle at the police unit. The witness described the rifle as a camouflage stock with a black barrel. The witness described the suspect as a black male, heavy set in his 30's to 40's wearing a camouflage long sleeve jacket. The witness said the suspect fired approximately 10 rounds from the rifle into the driver's side of the police unit. The witness said the police unit started to roll forward and he saw the driver of the unit slumped over. The witness said the truck fled north on Magnolia Ave. The witness made a u-turn attempting to follow the truck. The witness observed truck turn west on Central Ave where he lost sight of the suspect vehicle. The witness called 911 and returned to the scene. The witness was shown a six photo lineup where he identified Dorner as the person that looked most like the suspect. The witness said he was 45% sure.​

Does anyone, at all, see the problem here?

Are you talking about the color of the truck mentioned? No. There was discussion as to what the color of the truck was a few times. It was a dark color--I read it described as dark gray, dark green, black.

 

[LinasK]

Are you talking about the color of the truck mentioned? No. There was discussion as to what the color of the truck was a few times. It was a dark color--I read it described as dark gray, dark green, black.

Nissan makes Dark Grey vehicles, I have one. It looks almost black until you compare it to a black one. The official color is Night Armor.

 

[LinasK]

This makes no sense.

Excerpted from the above affidavit ( emphasis added, mine link ):

LAPD Officers located Dorner and his vehicle a dark grey Nissan Titan pickup truck with CA license 8D83997 off Wierick Rd in Corona. LAPD Officers followed the vehicle to the area of Magnolia and the 15 freeway in Corona. While waiting for a backup to contact Dorner, the suspect vehicle stopped and Dorner exited firing multiple .223 caliber rounds from a rifle into the LAPD Officers vehicle. One of the officers received a grazing wound to his head. The vehicle was last seen fleeing eastbound Magnolia Ave from the shooting. An LAPD Officer positively identified Dorner as the suspect who shot at he and his partner.

[...]

The witness observed and RPD police unit pull up next to him in the #2 lane. The witness said he observed a camouflage colored truck stop just southeast of him in the left turn lane. The witness said the window of the truck was down and the driver pointed a rifle at the police unit. The witness described the rifle as a camouflage stock with a black barrel. The witness described the suspect as a black male, heavy set in his 30's to 40's wearing a camouflage long sleeve jacket. The witness said the suspect fired approximately 10 rounds from the rifle into the driver's side of the police unit. The witness said the police unit started to roll forward and he saw the driver of the unit slumped over. The witness said the truck fled north on Magnolia Ave. The witness made a u-turn attempting to follow the truck. The witness observed truck turn west on Central Ave where he lost sight of the suspect vehicle. The witness called 911 and returned to the scene. The witness was shown a six photo lineup where he identified Dorner as the person that looked most like the suspect. The witness said he was 45% sure.​

Does anyone, at all, see the problem here?

Yeah, you have an inaccurate witness/sloppy reporting, unless you think he stole a military vehicle. I have also seen the couple he stole's Nissan alternately reported as first Maroon, then purple. Maroon is NOT purple to me, it's a dark red, but people perceive colors differently.

 

[shadowraiths]

Yeah, you have an inaccurate witness/sloppy reporting, unless you think he stole a military vehicle. I have also seen the couple he stole's Nissan alternately reported as first Maroon, then purple. Maroon is NOT purple to me, it's a dark red, but people perceive colors differently.

I agree. Very sloppy reporting. If Dorner is, in fact, the individual who shot the Riverside police officers, fine. However, both the camouflage and 45% ID opens up the possibility that someone else shot those officers. And if that's the case, that's a serious prob. Bc that individual would still be at large, and therefore presents a danger to other officers.

 

[LinasK]

I agree. Very sloppy reporting. If Dorner is, in fact, the individual who shot the Riverside police officers, fine. However, both the camouflage and 45% ID opens up the possibility that someone else shot those officers. And if that's the case, that's a serious prob. Bc that individual would still be at large, and therefore presents a danger to other officers.

Camoflage to me says Army vehicle, they are stationed in my town. But Dorner was in the Navy. So how would he get an Army vehicle? He did have camo fatigues on, IIRC.:waitasec:

 

[shadowraiths]

Camoflage to me says Army vehicle, they are stationed in my town. But Dorner was in the Navy. So how would he get an Army vehicle? He did have camo fatigues on, IIRC.:waitasec:

Yes, that I recall, on the shoot out day, that boy scout ranger said he was wearing camos. Camos are easy to get. But the army vehicle is weird, imo. Which is why I'm wondering if Dorner was actually the guy who shot those officers. I do know when I first heard of that shooting, it seemed off script. Shooting at the other officers, made sense, since they were tailing him. But these two guys were simply sitting at a traffic light and the guy pulls up and shoots them? Leaves me wondering if they just assumed it was him... you know, just like the officers who shot at the civilians. And now that he's dead, they're just figuring it's all good.

 

[CountryGirl]

http://socalmountains.com/e107_files/public/1361323916_4_FT182625_eow.mp3

Last call for Detective MacKay.

 

[danzn16]

Still thinking of the officers and their families.

 

[CountryGirl]

I called the Hilton San Bernardino today to donate a room for family/LE coming for tomorrow's funeral and I was put on a waiting list. So many have donated rooms they said they have all they need they think, but will call the list if more are needed.

 

[MsFacetious]

I called the Hilton San Bernardino today to donate a room for family/LE coming for tomorrow's funeral and I was put on a waiting list. So many have donated rooms they said they have all they need they think, but will call the list if more are needed.

That is awesome. :great:

 

[fran]

I called the Hilton San Bernardino today to donate a room for family/LE coming for tomorrow's funeral and I was put on a waiting list. So many have donated rooms they said they have all they need they think, but will call the list if more are needed.

What a sweet gesture.

Sincerely,
fran