Still Missing CA - Classic (Orson West, 3) & Cincere (Orrin West, 4) Calif. City, *parents charged* 21 Dec 2020 #7

[cocomod]

I hope we would have heard something but LE doesn't always keep us privy. I'm inclined to believe that these are the 2 boys who were removed along with the biological boys. But I do think Kern county CPS needs an audit with a magnifying glass and fine tooth comb.

I'm guessing the state will terminate the Wests' rights to those boys. How traumatic if they are put back into the system.

Amen. They have been traumatized more than they deserve as well.

 

[Beans]

MAR 3, 2022
Orrin and Orson West adoptive parents' indictment details (kget.com)
Along with charges of murder and child cruelty filed against the adoptive parents of Orrin and Orson West are a number of circumstances in aggravation, among them that they induced a minor to assist in committing a crime.

Which juvenile, if more than one was involved and exactly what they did is not contained in the indictment, which simply lays out the charges and circumstances in aggravation against Trezell and Jacqueline West. ...

[...]

Other circumstances in aggravation listed in the indictment are as follows: the victims were particularly vulnerable due to their age; the Wests occupied a position of leadership or dominance over other participants in the commission of the crime; they threatened witnesses, unlawfully prevented witnesses from testifying or otherwise interfered with the judicial process; they took advantage of a position of trust or confidence; they committed a crime that involved great violence showing a high degree of cruelty, viciousness or callousness; and the manner in which the crime was carried out indicates planning, sophistication or professionalism.

A hearing on a gag order and to seal documents related to the case is scheduled next week.

“unlawfully prevented witnesses from testifying or otherwise interfered with the judicial process” actually sounds like something that could have happened after the boys were reported missing.

 

[PommyMommy]

“unlawfully prevented witnesses from testifying or otherwise interfered with the judicial process” actually sounds like something that could have happened after the boys were reported missing.

Yes, I assume that's when it happened. I wonder if they refused to let the children be interviewed? Who else could they prevent from testifying? MOO

 

[RickshawFan]

You can deduct up to $14,440 per child for adoption related expenses (and most people fudge amounts), so they could have received nearly $30,000 from IRS the year after the adoption was final. (Depending on a lot of things, but it was possible.)

Plus they would be getting Earned Income Credit per child, Child Tax Credit, and possibly state/county income per child.

Barely enough if you're raising a child, but, although horrible to say, a decent income if you don't plan on the child being there long....

Wasn't that close to when they bought their house? (Don't recall.)

Link is general and provides info on both the Adoption Credit and Adoption Assistance Programs. Site Index Search | Internal Revenue Service

If you look at the Hart case***, all 6 children were adopted, and the parents were being compensated by State agencies for the adoptions. It was a substantial portion of their income.
***The Hart case is where a mom drove the 6 kids and her wife over a cliff on the California coast. Basically, their whole life was a lie, per police findings. There wasn't even evidence that children lived in the home. Shudder.

 

[RickshawFan]

I have followed this case since the boys were reported missing although I dont comment here much as I don't want to break forum rules. I've shed a few tears these last few days for classic and cincere, sorry but I will never use the O names again.

I've known that something was coming for a while, and suspected since watching the interview with those two that something was off, the indictments are a shock. It's worse than I could have imagined. All we can do now is hope they find the boys, and they can have the dignity in death they deserved in life but were denied. Im heart broken for these babies.

Justice for the boys!! And where are the boys?

The Behavior Panel (an approved WS source) does a great job of analyzing the couple's body language. This is the update, but there was more a few months ago:

 

[Beans]

Yes, I assume that's when it happened. I wonder if they refused to let the children be interviewed? Who else could they prevent from testifying? MOO

How long did it take for them to remove the other children from their care? I can’t remember the specifics now but I thought it all happened very quickly….

 

[BeckyF]

The Behavior Panel (an approved WS source) does a great job of analyzing the couple's body language. This is the update, but there was more a few months ago:

The most recent one only lasted about 2 minutes. I like Behavior Panel but I don’t even know why they aired this.

 

[PommyMommy]

How long did it take for them to remove the other children from their care? I can’t remember the specifics now but I thought it all happened very quickly….

According to this article dated 12/24/2020, they were removed as soon as the investigation began.

Orrin and Orson West case: What you need to know (kget.com)

 

[Knox]

According to this article dated 12/24/2020, they were removed as soon as the investigation began.

Orrin and Orson West case: What you need to know (kget.com)

According to the Grandmother (WW) the boys were removed 18 hours later. I know most of you will remember the statement she made and how oddly worded it was.

"Less than 18 hours after their disappearance we made the heart wrenching choice to place their four brothers (my other babies) in the hands of the FBI for their protection. We had no clue what was happening or who was out there and in an instant all six of my grandchildren were gone. Out of my reach. I was shocked, hurt, worried, upset and confused".
PLEASE HELP RETURN MY BABIES — A GRANDMOTHERS PLEA

 

[GeorgiaRai]

Even though there was no other rational explanation for the boys going missing, I had really hoped it wasn't the parents. So sad to know that they most likely lived painful lives and then suffered painful deaths. It's devastating.

 

[Ontario Mom]

According to the Grandmother (WW) the boys were removed 18 hours later. I know most of you will remember the statement she made and how oddly worded it was.

"Less than 18 hours after their disappearance we made the heart wrenching choice to place their four brothers (my other babies) in the hands of the FBI for their protection. We had no clue what was happening or who was out there and in an instant all six of my grandchildren were gone. Out of my reach. I was shocked, hurt, worried, upset and confused".
PLEASE HELP RETURN MY BABIES — A GRANDMOTHERS PLEA

I have to wonder if the observed behavior of the parents with the kids still left in the home, wasn't a huge part of the reason they were removed. For example, if LE wanted to talk to the kids and the parents made a big stink about it or even refused to allow it. That would be an immediate red flag, I would think.

 

[SweetOne]

The lawyers representing the adoptive parents charged with murder in the deaths of Orrin and Orson West are holding a news conference this afternoon. I can't find any video coverage though??

Defense counsel for Trezell and Jacqueline West to hold news conference

 

[Seattle1]

I have to wonder if the observed behavior of the parents with the kids still left in the home, wasn't a huge part of the reason they were removed. For example, if LE wanted to talk to the kids and the parents made a big stink about it or even refused to allow it. That would be an immediate red flag, I would think.

It takes a lot to remove a child from their home and if they were removed within 18 hours, I believe it was because authorities told the court that two children disappeared under circumstances that could not be confirmed -- i.e., father's account would later prove not to be true that the boys walked out of the open gate.

In other words, that early, they'd be taking action to protect the minors from an unsafe environment whether it be a known and/or unknown abductor. Also, they could not take the children from their home just because they were not allowed to talk to LE as this is the right of the children and their parents acting to protect the civil rights of their children. Not any different than the rights bestowed on any adult under the constitution. MOO

ETA: Re-read OP's post and it appears that the parents voluntarily placed the children with the FBI/social services for their protection. I think requesting FBI to facilitate is probably true but the reasoning was probably motivated by parents hoping this would hold authorities at bay and take the heat off of them.

 

[Frodosdojo]

It takes a lot to remove a child from their home and if they were removed within 18 hours, I believe it was because authorities told the court that two children disappeared under circumstances that could not be confirmed -- i.e., father's account would later prove not to be true that the boys walked out of the open gate.

In other words, that early, they'd be taking action to protect the minors from an unsafe environment whether it be a known and/or unknown abductor. Also, they could not take the children from their home just because they were not allowed to talk to LE as this is the right of the children and their parents acting to protect the civil rights of their children. Not any different than the rights bestowed on any adult under the constitution. MOO

ETA: Re-read OP's post and it appears that the parents voluntarily placed the children with the FBI/social services for their protection. I think requesting FBI to facilitate is probably true but the reasoning was probably motivated by parents hoping this would hold authorities at bay and take the heat off of them.

The FBI responded and said that was not true. They do not take children into protective custody under such circumstances.

The reason that CPS removes children is there are signs of abuse or neglect. That is pretty much standard nationwide. For each case worker, there are differences in what they see as neglect or abuse so keep that in mind as to why some children who we believe should be removed, don't get removed.

 

[Frodosdojo]

I have to wonder if the observed behavior of the parents with the kids still left in the home, wasn't a huge part of the reason they were removed. For example, if LE wanted to talk to the kids and the parents made a big stink about it or even refused to allow it. That would be an immediate red flag, I would think.

I think it's just as simple as what I posted above - there were obvious signs of abuse or neglect.

 

[LaborDayRN]

You can deduct up to $14,440 per child for adoption related expenses (and most people fudge amounts), so they could have received nearly $30,000 from IRS the year after the adoption was final. (Depending on a lot of things, but it was possible.)

Plus they would be getting Earned Income Credit per child, Child Tax Credit, and possibly state/county income per child.

Barely enough if you're raising a child, but, although horrible to say, a decent income if you don't plan on the child being there long....

Wasn't that close to when they bought their house? (Don't recall.)

Link is general and provides info on both the Adoption Credit and Adoption Assistance Programs. Site Index Search | Internal Revenue Service

I've learned something new today. I was always under the impression that you received those incentives while fostering but once a legal adoption was finalized most of the incentives stopped. Does this vary state to state? Thanks for sharing this info.

 

[LaborDayRN]

It was likely horrific, IMO. The indictment says that a minor was forced to participate in the murders so if that was one of the remaining kids, I can't even imagine.

This was the same in the case of Gabriel Fernandez. The other children in the family were forced to participate in the torture that ultimately led to his death. Some people truly are monsters.

 

[Frodosdojo]

Oops ! ALready posted.

The audacity to hold a news conference !

 

[mickey2942]

I've learned something new today. I was always under the impression that you received those incentives while fostering but once a legal adoption was finalized most of the incentives stopped. Does this vary state to state? Thanks for sharing this info.

It depends. There are so many variables, it is really an impossible question. Each case has to be looked at. Sometimes, children with disabilities already have social security determination, and are eligible for federal SSI grants. Which is separate from state incentives.

 

[Knox]

I have to wonder if the observed behavior of the parents with the kids still left in the home, wasn't a huge part of the reason they were removed. For example, if LE wanted to talk to the kids and the parents made a big stink about it or even refused to allow it. That would be an immediate red flag, I would think.

I have to wonder about that statement they made in their one and only pressor - LE would not let them leave the house and there was an officer with them at all times. They claimed LE told them "the best was out there looking" and "they needed to ask them (TW & JW) questions".

I initially thought they were making excuses and were actually avoiding interaction. But in hindsight, maybe LE had a specific reason for keeping them under close surveillance at that point in time.