Still Missing CA - Classic (Orson West, 3) & Cincere (Orrin West, 4) Calif. City, *parents charged* 21 Dec 2020 #7

[NuttMegg]

TW’s lead attorney was painfully nervous. He seemed to be having a panic attack. It was hard to watch.

amateur opinion and speculation

It's an election year?

Whose fault is it that the case was delayed into an election year?

Maybe if they had made a timely report of the boys being deceased....

 

[Peppery]

It's an election year?

Whose fault is it that the case was delayed into an election year?

Maybe if they had made a timely report of the boys being deceased....

Or perhaps not killed them at all?

Typical murderers. It’s not their fault, and even if it was, the DA isn’t being nice to them because of an election. Surely it couldn’t be because they killed two innocent babies, continue to abuse them in death by preventing them a peaceful resting place and abused four other innocent children by making them party to their crimes. Poor, poor TW and JW. They’re the real victims here. GMAFB. my opinion only

 

[NuttMegg]

Or perhaps not killed them at all?

Typical murderers. It’s not their fault, and even if it was, the DA isn’t being nice to them because of an election. Surely it couldn’t be because they killed two innocent babies, continue to abuse them in death by preventing them a peaceful resting place and abused four other innocent children by making them party to their crimes. Poor, poor TW and JW. They’re the real victims here. GMAFB. my opinion only

Well they never could have made a timely report that they killed them, that's why I said deceased, it would have been some "story". But I was thinking it's so much harder with 2 little boys dying at once, hard to come up with an "accident" that would fit. Assuming they were killed at once, together. This one is mind blowing, they all are, but getting rid of 2 little boys, and having your kids either do it or witness it, or even just threatening them if they keep asking "where are Orrin and Orson"?

Have we found out yet if they were owners of the Winnebago back when the crimes are thought to have occurred, or is it a new addition? On Duty Ron the other night that was brought up, ie forensic investigation of the Winnebago, but no one knew when it was acquired.

Maybe they did have the Winnebago, drove off into the desert, killed the boys maybe not in front of the other kids, but came back without them and then required them to lie under threats that the boys had not been with them that day.

I just don't see how a "family" of 6 kids would be able to fly under the radar with no one knowing that 2 were missing. I guess that's why the DA says there are some 50 witnesses.

IMO

 

[NuttMegg]

Or maybe they drove off alone with Orson and Orrin, killed them, and told the kids they went back with their "real" Mommy. And told the kids not to talk about it anymore because some horrible thing would happen to the family, to the remaining kids. That arrest document is a little vague about what the "minor/minors" witnessed. IE a story or an act.

So if they took part in it, it could be take part in a coverup not actually taking the lives.

I'd like to fantasize that people aren't so cruel as to mess up their other kids for the rest of their lives by purposely making them witness violence on their adopted siblings. Or impose the violence, I sure hope it's something less than telling the kids to beat the little boys to death.

I mean that 2 ways, less for the deadly trauma to Orson and Orrin, and "less" for the trauma to the still living 4 other kids.

 

[katydid23]

Or maybe they drove off alone with Orson and Orrin, killed them, and told the kids they went back with their "real" Mommy. And told the kids not to talk about it anymore because some horrible thing would happen to the family, to the remaining kids. That arrest document is a little vague about what the "minor/minors" witnessed. IE a story or an act.

So if they took part in it, it could be take part in a coverup not actually taking the lives.

I'd like to fantasize that people aren't so cruel as to mess up their other kids for the rest of their lives by purposely making them witness violence on their adopted siblings. Or impose the violence, I sure hope it's something less than telling the kids to beat the little boys to death.

I mean that 2 ways, less for the deadly trauma to Orson and Orrin, and "less" for the trauma to the still living 4 other kids.

This is just speculation, but I am wondering if they may have scapegoated and abusively criminally neglected the two youngest ones. We have seen
cases in this forum, where one or two children will be separated out from the rest, and locked away, rarely fed, and abusively punished.

The other children are in the horrible situation of seeing it and being in fear that they are the next victims, while feeling horribly sad about their siblings fate. I have an awful feeling that these boys experienced something like that before they passed.

 

[rosesfromangels]

This is just speculation, but I am wondering if they may have scapegoated and abusively criminally neglected the two youngest ones. We have seen
cases in this forum, where one or two children will be separated out from the rest, and locked away, rarely fed, and abusively punished.

The other children are in the horrible situation of seeing it and being in fear that they are the next victims, while feeling horribly sad about their siblings fate. I have an awful feeling that these boys experienced something like that before they passed.

It's entirely possible, and the other kids might have dissociated.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Frodosdojo]

Gag order issued in West case.

BAKERSFIELD, Calif. (KGET) — A Kern County judge on Tuesday issued a gag order in the case of a couple accused of killing two of their adopted children.

The order bars attorneys and their investigators and law enforcement involved in the case of Trezell and Jacqueline West from speaking publicly about it. It also applies to witnesses and court personnel with access to reports filed in the case.

Additionally, Judge Chad A. Louie ordered all search warrants and grand jury transcripts sealed.

Prosecutor Eric Smith had requested the gag order and defense lawyers Timothy Hennessy and Alekxia Torres Stallings joined in the motion.

The Wests have pleaded not guilty to two counts of second-degree murder, two counts of willful cruelty to a child and falsely reporting an emergency. They were arrested March 1 after being indicted by grand jury.

Prosecutors say Orrin, 4, and Orson, 3, were killed three months before they were were reported missing.

The Wests’ defense attorneys have criticized comments District Attorney Cynthia Zimmer made at a news conference last week, saying they implied the Wests are guilty based on their being indicted by grand jury.

Defense counsel, at a news conference of their own held Monday, stressed their clients are innocent until proven guilty at trial, which requires a far higher burden of proof than required for an indictment.

Trial is currently scheduled for May but will likely be postponed.

Trezell West, 35, in December 2020 said the boys vanished while playing outside. He and Jacqueline West, 32, pleaded with the community for help finding them.

The bodies of the boys have not been found.

 

[NuttMegg]

This is just speculation, but I am wondering if they may have scapegoated and abusively criminally neglected the two youngest ones. We have seen
cases in this forum, where one or two children will be separated out from the rest, and locked away, rarely fed, and abusively punished.

The other children are in the horrible situation of seeing it and being in fear that they are the next victims, while feeling horribly sad about their siblings fate. I have an awful feeling that these boys experienced something like that before they passed.

Not wanting to be seen as naive, it's just so hard for me to think of them just out and out killing them, with witnesses no less. Perceived behavioral problems required being shut up in some vehicle, room, trunk, some place that turned deadly? Locked in a motor home with a faulty gas stove?

Then there was that poor kid in Montana, James Alex Hurley, who really was tortured by his young but huge "uncle" and some other family members, actually tortured him in various inventive ways, including shoving his head into the wall, then he went into a coma or died on the floor, they had him sleeping behind the couch.

So evil does exist, and Watts of course, before murdering her, tortured Bella in a way that would have been prohibited by the Geneva Convention had he been in uniform. Making prisoners watch the murder of their relatives in front of their eyes.

 

[Frodosdojo]

In light of the information above and the grandmother’s statement I wonder if there’s an element of truth in there regarding the voluntary part. Could it be that other family members were assigned as foster/guardians and voluntarily made the decision in conjunction with LE because they had their own reasons for creating some distance from parents?

It may also just be the case that grandma was told this story by the parents and repeated it, of course. And it might simply be untrue in every respect.

Either way, I’m very glad it happened when it did. However it happened. Even if there was any sort of voluntary aspect I imagine that option may have disappeared rather quickly as investigations went on anyway.

Also thanks for summarising the presser folks.

The FBI released a statement that this is not true. I searched for the source which would have been March 29, 2021 but could only find the article below. I remember them releasing it rather quickly after her statement.

Blog post: Adoptive grandmother of missing California City toddlers pleads for help

IIRC, the grandmother is also a licensed foster care provider. I don’t have a link but I’m sure it’s in the first or second thread.

I seem to recall that as well.

Wanda West is not a licensed foster parent. If you read the family blog, she specifically states that. It is possible that JW's mom is.

My grandmother lives in Cal City & I have a cousin there also. Used to visit as a child & some times as an adult. I have been waiting for an arrest. Glad it has finally happened. These poor kiddos. I am under the impression that there is a lot of section 8 housing in this town- perhaps why JW&TW moved here?

They bought that home but if the used a USDA Rural Development Mortgage, then they could use previous Section 8 approval to pay part of their mortgage. If they were on Section 8 in the Bakersfield apartments, it could carry over to the mortgage payment.

Well they never could have made a timely report that they killed them, that's why I said deceased, it would have been some "story". But I was thinking it's so much harder with 2 little boys dying at once, hard to come up with an "accident" that would fit. Assuming they were killed at once, together. This one is mind blowing, they all are, but getting rid of 2 little boys, and having your kids either do it or witness it, or even just threatening them if they keep asking "where are Orrin and Orson"?

Have we found out yet if they were owners of the Winnebago back when the crimes are thought to have occurred, or is it a new addition? On Duty Ron the other night that was brought up, ie forensic investigation of the Winnebago, but no one knew when it was acquired.

Maybe they did have the Winnebago, drove off into the desert, killed the boys maybe not in front of the other kids, but came back without them and then required them to lie under threats that the boys had not been with them that day.

I just don't see how a "family" of 6 kids would be able to fly under the radar with no one knowing that 2 were missing. I guess that's why the DA says there are some 50 witnesses.

IMO

I think a Cal City neighbor would have noticed the Winnebago and even the grandparents' neighbors would have seen it. There was one that was identical to it recently for sale in that area so my guess is that is the one they bought.

 

[Seattle1]

The FBI released a statement that this is not true. I searched for the source which would have been March 29, 2021 but could only find the article below. I remember them releasing it rather quickly after her statement.

^^sbm

Grandmother did NOT say the FBI took the children away from the parents, and the FBI confirmed that is not what they do. However, the FBI will facilitate the transfer of minor children to social services/CPS. Personally, I believe this is exactly what happened.

As is their policy, FBI nor CPS do not discuss their actions on behalf of minor children.

As of this date, we don't know if separating the minor children from their adoptive parents was by court order or if the parents indeed sought to voluntarily surrender the children-- especially if the couple told authorities they feared for the safety of the kids given their story that the two boys vanished from the backyard.

And given the recent gag order, I doubt we will know anytime soon.

I believe it was the Sheriff that confirmed on camera/YT interview that investigators don't make the decision to remove children from their home. I think this was a direct response to the reporter fishing for the same info above-- details that are generally sealed from the public for the privacy and protection of the minors.

The grandmother is not a POI here. She may have been told the FBI drove the children to the appropriate command center. The responsible party is behind bars -- no need to twist grandmother's words dating back to Dec 2020! JMO

 

[PommyMommy]

MAR 8, 2022
Gag order set for remainder of trial for West Boys case (turnto23.com)
[...]

Meanwhile, given Tuesday’s hearing was a motion, Jacqueline and Trezell West were not physically in court. The attorneys representing them were and agreed to the gag order and are asking to extend the order to others.

Prosecutor Eric Smith originally did not list witnesses in the motion, but after it was brought up to the judge, the West's attorneys submitted to include witnesses.

“I don’t have any issue with that, the issue would be contacting all of the witnesses in an appropriate fashion and let them know there is a gag order,” said Smith.

The prosecutor will have until March 15 to let witnesses know of the gag order.

[...]

 

[mickey2942]

I am going to speculate that this will drag out forever. Change attorneys, competency for the defendants, on and on...the only "game changer" will be if one of the Wests flips on the other one for a deal.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I am going to speculate that this will drag out forever. Change attorneys, competency for the defendants, on and on...the only "game changer" will be if one of the Wests flips on the other one for a deal.

BBM. I think this is likely; hope so.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[flower_girl]

Has this been shared here yet?

Two other children that were adopted by the Wests have not been seen and the birth mother has asked for "proof of life" but has received nothing.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Has this been shared here yet?

Two other children that were adopted by the Wests have not been seen and the birth mother has asked for "proof of life" but has received nothing.

OMG! I'd want "proof of life" too!!!! They need answers....NOW.
The community should put pressure on CPS to confirm to the media these children are alive.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[cvaldez1975]

im thinking that the other 2 adopted kids may be these ppl's kids.

 

[Seattle1]

im thinking that the other 2 adopted kids may be these ppl's kids.

Yes. In the YT above (#235), the birth mother and step-dad named the minors.

The birth mother also cited that since she was a ward of the court herself when the children were born, social services/CPS took her children.

However, in the newscast portion of the same video, the broadcaster reported that they received a statement from social services that the children were not removed simply because she was a ward-- but that there were other reasons, which of course, were not disclosed.

 

[Frodosdojo]

^^sbm

Grandmother did NOT say the FBI took the children away from the parents, and the FBI confirmed that is not what they do. However, the FBI will facilitate the transfer of minor children to social services/CPS. Personally, I believe this is exactly what happened.

As is their policy, FBI nor CPS do not discuss their actions on behalf of minor children.

As of this date, we don't know if separating the minor children from their adoptive parents was by court order or if the parents indeed sought to voluntarily surrender the children-- especially if the couple told authorities they feared for the safety of the kids given their story that the two boys vanished from the backyard.

And given the recent gag order, I doubt we will know anytime soon.

I believe it was the Sheriff that confirmed on camera/YT interview that investigators don't make the decision to remove children from their home. I think this was a direct response to the reporter fishing for the same info above-- details that are generally sealed from the public for the privacy and protection of the minors.

The grandmother is not a POI here. She may have been told the FBI drove the children to the appropriate command center. The responsible party is behind bars -- no need to twist grandmother's words dating back to Dec 2020! JMO

I actually read the FBI statement so I can't agree with your speculations. I also recall the Cal City Police Chief stating they removed the kids. Grandmother's words are in print on their family website so I have definitely not twisted her words.

Has this been shared here yet?

Two other children that were adopted by the Wests have not been seen and the birth mother has asked for "proof of life" but has received nothing.

A friend of the bio family spoke to this woman and assured her they were two of the children removed from the Wests when the other 4 were removed. It would be terrifying to imagine any child in the Wests' care.

 

[Frodosdojo]

Here's a news article from before WW made her statement about the removal of the other children. Hopefully, this makes clear what happened.

Siblings of Orrin and Orson West in foster care; judge to determine adoptive parents’ custody | KGET 17

CALIFORNIA CITY Calif. (KGET) – It’s been 50 days since 3-year-old Orson and 4-year-old Orrin West were reported missing in California City.

The adoptive parents of the two boys – Trezell and Jacqueline West – are cooperating with police, but not speaking to the public. Jon Walker – the Chief of Police in California City – says they’re staying in Bakersfield. The West parents have four other kids – two biological, and two adopted. The Chief of Police says these kids are in protective custody.

“In child protective services, protective custody means they’re place in a foster home,” said Jana Slagle, a spokesperson from the Department of Human Services in Kern County. “They’re removed from their family with the allegation of abuse or neglect, and placed in a foster home.”

Her department deals with cases of parental neglect which ultimately end up in juvenile court.

“Every time a child is removed by either law enforcement or CPS,” Slagle said. “We’re involved in the court process for those children”

She says there is a process through which parents are evaluated. She spoke generally about the process and emphasized she was not talking specifically about the California City case. Frequently, the parents must complete certain tasks, aimed at ensuring the children’s safety, to regain custody.

“The parents are given a court ordered case plan and if they complete what’s asked of them then they can get their children back in their custody,” Slagle said.

The parents have around four months to complete the tasks. If they don’t do a sufficient job – a judge could rule to keep their kids in foster care.

“That’s where everybody’s coming to the table and presenting information on how did the parents do, did they do enough to get their kids back,” Slagle said. “Or are they doing well, but not quite there we need to extend this a little longer, give them more time just presenting it all together there.”

Anyone with information on the two missing boys can call the California City Police Department at 760-373-8606. To remain anonymous you can call the secret witness line at 661-322-4040.

 

[SweetOne]

I have to keep reminding myself of the facts so far:
The boys have not been found.
The boys have been Presumed dead. Not confirmed dead.
No crime scene.
Adoptive parents are charged not convicted of Murder.
The defense lawyers claim to have asked for the case to defend, it was not assigned to them. (see press conference)
The female defense lawyer's experience is impressive - her Spanish not so much.
There is now a Gag order and all we can do is speculate.
I could be wrong but if I am understanding this correctly the Trial will also be under a Gag order. We might never hear the witnesses or evidence?