Still Missing CA - Classic (Orson West, 3) & Cincere (Orrin West, 4) Calif. City, *parents charged* 21 Dec 2020 #7

[cb73]

Someone alluded to this yesterday, are these adoptive parents paid to adopt? (I guess I'm naive)

You can deduct up to $14,440 per child for adoption related expenses (and most people fudge amounts), so they could have received nearly $30,000 from IRS the year after the adoption was final. (Depending on a lot of things, but it was possible.)

Plus they would be getting Earned Income Credit per child, Child Tax Credit, and possibly state/county income per child.

Barely enough if you're raising a child, but, although horrible to say, a decent income if you don't plan on the child being there long....

Wasn't that close to when they bought their house? (Don't recall.)

Link is general and provides info on both the Adoption Credit and Adoption Assistance Programs. Site Index Search | Internal Revenue Service

 

[fidgeypie]

I have followed this case since the boys were reported missing although I dont comment here much as I don't want to break forum rules. I've shed a few tears these last few days for classic and cincere, sorry but I will never use the O names again.

I've known that something was coming for a while, and suspected since watching the interview with those two that something was off, the indictments are a shock. It's worse than I could have imagined. All we can do now is hope they find the boys, and they can have the dignity in death they deserved in life but were denied. Im heart broken for these babies.

Justice for the boys!! And where are the boys?

 

[cvaldez1975]

I have followed this case since the boys were reported missing although I dont comment here much as I don't want to break forum rules. I've shed a few tears these last few days for classic and cincere, sorry but I will never use the O names again.

I've known that something was coming for a while, and suspected since watching the interview with those two that something was off, the indictments are a shock. It's worse than I could have imagined. All we can do now is hope they find the boys, and they can have the dignity in death they deserved in life but were denied. Im heart broken for these babies.

Justice for the boys!! And where are the boys?

i feel the same about the O names and use of west.

 

[fidgeypie]

I'm glad it isn't just me

 

[Mitch1]

I think it is going to come out that those kids were living in a “house of horrors”, I think all the kids were abused-why else would someone isolate children and themselves to the degree they did. I’m pretty introverted but I make sure my kid gets out and plays/socializes with other kids. JW & TW just give me the creeps

 

[katydid23]

I think it is going to come out that those kids were living in a “house of horrors”, I think all the kids were abused-why else would someone isolate children and themselves to the degree they did. I’m pretty introverted but I make sure my kid gets out and plays/socializes with other kids. JW & TW just give me the creeps

Yes, sadly I agree that this was likely a house-of-horrors. The fact that both of these sweet babies died, pretty much takes away the option of it being a tragic accident. We cannot speculate that one child died accidentally and they covered it up to avoid losing the others. As horrid as it sounds, they most likely killed both of the children. It is hard to even imagine...

 

[Knox]

I'm really curious what the extended family thinks about the arrests. I re-read the family blog posts tonight - The West Family – Medium - I'm left with more questions now than ever. The extended family seemed to immediately put distance between themselves and Trezell & Jacqueline. Why? It leads one to think they immediately suspected something was not quite right. IMO, Orrin & Orson had not been seen in a while. Time was running out, they either had to produce the boys for the holidays or someone was going to start asking really hard questions.

 

[NuttMegg]

You can deduct up to $14,440 per child for adoption related expenses (and most people fudge amounts), so they could have received nearly $30,000 from IRS the year after the adoption was final. (Depending on a lot of things, but it was possible.)

Plus they would be getting Earned Income Credit per child, Child Tax Credit, and possibly state/county income per child.

Barely enough if you're raising a child, but, although horrible to say, a decent income if you don't plan on the child being there long....

Wasn't that close to when they bought their house? (Don't recall.)

Link is general and provides info on both the Adoption Credit and Adoption Assistance Programs. Site Index Search | Internal Revenue Service

You can deduct up to $14,440 per child for adoption related expenses (and most people fudge amounts), so they could have received nearly $30,000 from IRS the year after the adoption was final. (Depending on a lot of things, but it was possible.)

Plus they would be getting Earned Income Credit per child, Child Tax Credit, and possibly state/county income per child.

Barely enough if you're raising a child, but, although horrible to say, a decent income if you don't plan on the child being there long....

Wasn't that close to when they bought their house? (Don't recall.)

Link is general and provides info on both the Adoption Credit and Adoption Assistance Programs. Site Index Search | Internal Revenue Service

I bet with 4 adopted kids and all the programs they could dig up, it could be lucrative. Sorry to be a cynic, and by no means do I project that on to adoptive parents in general. I remember a cop show discussing how in NYC it was a real scam, in this case foster kids, a certain amount of $$ per month X number of fosters. Point being that in certain crowded neighborhoods, the scammers would not even report a missing kid, social services too overworked to make all the visits they should, or being told that Johnny is at the zoo, and if a kid was reported missing, it was best to postpone the report as long as possible to make it seem like it just happened.

IMO

 

[Frodosdojo]

You can deduct up to $14,440 per child for adoption related expenses (and most people fudge amounts), so they could have received nearly $30,000 from IRS the year after the adoption was final. (Depending on a lot of things, but it was possible.)

Plus they would be getting Earned Income Credit per child, Child Tax Credit, and possibly state/county income per child.

Barely enough if you're raising a child, but, although horrible to say, a decent income if you don't plan on the child being there long....

Wasn't that close to when they bought their house? (Don't recall.)

Link is general and provides info on both the Adoption Credit and Adoption Assistance Programs. Site Index Search | Internal Revenue Service

The monthly adoption subsidy is not taxable just as fostering payments are not taxable. Tax credits would only be eligible for adopting parents with actual jobs.

 

[mickey2942]

I bet with 4 adopted kids and all the programs they could dig up, it could be lucrative. Sorry to be a cynic, and by no means do I project that on to adoptive parents in general. I remember a cop show discussing how in NYC it was a real scam, in this case foster kids, a certain amount of $$ per month X number of fosters. Point being that in certain crowded neighborhoods, the scammers would not even report a missing kid, social services too overworked to make all the visits they should, or being told that Johnny is at the zoo, and if a kid was reported missing, it was best to postpone the report as long as possible to make it seem like it just happened.

IMO

Yes. Scammers are the worst. Yet, I have met some incredible foster parents. Sure, the money was part of the motivation, but really they just love children.

The Wests turned an opportunity to equalize adoption into something ugly. The intent of adoption grants is to not make low income a barrier to adoption. Instead, the Wests made this generosity into a "for profit" scam.

 

[Frodosdojo]

Yes. Scammers are the worst. Yet, I have met some incredible foster parents. Sure, the money was part of the motivation, but really they just love children.

The Wests turned an opportunity to equalize adoption into something ugly. The intent of adoption grants is to not make low income a barrier to adoption. Instead, the Wests made this generosity into a "for profit" scam.

I totally agree. They adopted 2 sets of siblings which also increased their monthly benefit. If they collected the benefits for Orrin & Orsin from September through December 2020, I hope there are charges for doing so.

 

[BeckyF]

I wonder what life was like in that house after Orrin and Orson we’re gone?

Especially if the older boys were witness to any abuse.

It can’t have been happy. MOO

 

[Frodosdojo]

I wonder what life was like in that house after Orrin and Orson we’re gone?

Especially if the older boys were witness to any abuse.

It can’t have been happy. MOO

It was likely horrific, IMO. The indictment says that a minor was forced to participate in the murders so if that was one of the remaining kids, I can't even imagine.

 

[mickey2942]

Hmm, possible defense for Wests? Blame the murders on the oldest child. Say they were trying to protect him.

 

[Frodosdojo]

Hmm, possible defense for Wests? Blame the murders on the oldest child. Say they were trying to protect him.

If I were on the jury and heard that as a defense, I would vote to convict them that day. They would need to show that this child had a violent history, psychiatric records, the whole 9 yards before I would consider it. LE arrest violent children all the time. There's a reason these adults were arrested and since the indictment says they were threatening people, I would also take that as an excellent sign it was all on them.

Any good parent would try to get treatment for a violent child.

 

[cocomod]

When I rewatched it, they said their boys were adopted by the Wests in 2018. She said it's been 6 years since she's seen them. I can't recall what she said about 5 years but maybe there is some miscalculating going on.

With the police involvement, I think if they were missing we would have heard it by now. I think the police know where these boys are, maybe they were still with the Wests and were part of the remaining children that were removed from the home. Since they were adopted, the bio parents would not be privileged to any information about them since their rights were completely terminated.

 

[PommyMommy]

MAR 3, 2022
Orrin and Orson West adoptive parents' indictment details (kget.com)
Along with charges of murder and child cruelty filed against the adoptive parents of Orrin and Orson West are a number of circumstances in aggravation, among them that they induced a minor to assist in committing a crime.

Which juvenile, if more than one was involved and exactly what they did is not contained in the indictment, which simply lays out the charges and circumstances in aggravation against Trezell and Jacqueline West. ...

[...]

Other circumstances in aggravation listed in the indictment are as follows: the victims were particularly vulnerable due to their age; the Wests occupied a position of leadership or dominance over other participants in the commission of the crime; they threatened witnesses, unlawfully prevented witnesses from testifying or otherwise interfered with the judicial process; they took advantage of a position of trust or confidence; they committed a crime that involved great violence showing a high degree of cruelty, viciousness or callousness; and the manner in which the crime was carried out indicates planning, sophistication or professionalism.

A hearing on a gag order and to seal documents related to the case is scheduled next week.

 

[mickey2942]

If anyone has watched "Prince of Tides", it is an excellent movie about dysfunctional families and communicating, or lack thereof.

I can see the West's family, being very much like that. One day O&O are there, the next day they are gone. Say anything? Boom. Punishment is swift and immediate. Say nothing? No punishment is reward enough.

The dysfunction is epic.

 

[Knox]

Hmm, possible defense for Wests? Blame the murders on the oldest child. Say they were trying to protect him.

Maybe. But I think the kids told what happened to the boys in detail. It will likely be similar to what the siblings said in the Jhessye Shockley case and many others. They were either forced to watch or help. That's a special kind of evil right there. I'm very much looking forward to this trial. Kern County televised the Limon murder trial. Hoping this trial will be too.

 

[Frodosdojo]

With the police involvement, I think if they were missing we would have heard it by now. I think the police know where these boys are, maybe they were still with the Wests and were part of the remaining children that were removed from the home. Since they were adopted, the bio parents would not be privileged to any information about them since their rights were completely terminated.

I hope we would have heard something but LE doesn't always keep us privy. I'm inclined to believe that these are the 2 boys who were removed along with the biological boys. But I do think Kern county CPS needs an audit with a magnifying glass and fine tooth comb.

I'm guessing the state will terminate the Wests' rights to those boys. How traumatic if they are put back into the system.