CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #1

[gngr~snap]

I noticed on the website that one of the "services" that they offer is "roommate matches". I wonder if that was the case here, or if the victims knew him beforehand.

I live in a college town in the Midwest. And there are these new "student complexes" in which it is 4 bedroom apartment rented by the bedroom. These kids are moving in with people they don't even know. Can you imagine?

JMO's

Actually that is the only way I could see him having any roommates. If he couldn't even get a date, no one that knew him would choose to live him. I would bet with 3 minutes of carrying on a conversation with him it was obvious how entitled He thought he was.
To now know the roommates were Asian makes me really sad. Living in another country and possibly having no choice but to live with him.
I wonder what the deal was with the stolen candles. Did the roommates object to his having them for fear he would set the place on fire, or were they scented too strong??? I wish we knew.

All posts are my opinion only. Sent via Tapatalk

 

[human]

More on the apartments

http://capriiv.com/parents

Click on the activities.

 

[jggordo]

A question that I have is: Apparently this young man's parents were supporting him. I would suppose paying his credit card bills, allowance, rent and car etc. When he was out buying three guns and all this ammunition (probably approx. $2500 or more) did it not show up in the bills? These were not cheap weapons, and not just one but three plus over 400 rounds of ammunition.

If your son has "issues" would you not scrutinize these things? If when they asked LE to do a "welfare check" back in April did they advise (or did they even know) that he had weapons?

JMO's

 

[CARIIS]

Like earlier posting but this is exactly what we use in the field .

Aspergers- what it is

Just like different stages and types of cancer, tumors etc Elliot suffered within cluster of illness called :

Highlighting ER in blue and some of what we have learned about him in blue

Autism Spectrum Disorder:

Persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction across multiple contexts, as manifested by the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive; see text):

1. 1. [FONT=&quot]Deficits in social-emotional reciprocity, ranging, for example, from abnormal social approach and failure of normal back-and-forth conversation; to reduced sharing of interests, emotions, or affect; to failure to initiate or respond to social interactions.[/FONT]
   2. [FONT=&quot]Deficits in nonverbal communicative behaviors used for social interaction, ranging, for example, from poorly integrated verbal and nonverbal communication; to abnormalities in eye contact in the videos and body language or deficits in understanding and use of gestures; to a total lack of facial expressions and nonverbal communication.[/FONT]
   3. [FONT=&quot]Deficits in developing, maintaining, and understand relationships, ranging, for example, from difficulties adjusting behavior to suit various social contexts; to difficulties in sharing imaginative play or in making friends; to absence of interest in peers.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Specify[/FONT][FONT=&quot] current severity:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Severity is based on social communication impairments and restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior.[/FONT]

1. [FONT=&quot]Restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities, as manifested by at least two of the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive; see text): [/FONT]
   1. [FONT=&quot]Stereotyped or repetitive motor movements, use of objects, or speech (e.g., simple motor stereotypes, lining up toys or flipping objects, echolalia, idiosyncratic phrases).[/FONT]
   2. [FONT=&quot]Insistence on sameness (very fond of a couple of games only) , inflexible adherence to routines, or ritualized patterns of verbal or nonverbal behavior (e.g., extreme distress at small changes, difficulties with transitions (puberty), rigid - (basically all his YouTube postings are of him driving) thinking patterns, greeting rituals, need to take same route or eat same food every day).[/FONT]
   3. [FONT=&quot]Highly restricted, fixated (woman and looks) interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus (e.g., strong attachment to or preoccupation [/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot](woman and looks)[/FONT] with unusual objects, excessively circumscribed or perseverative ([/FONT][FONT=&quot]repetition interests-collage is sex not education).[/FONT]
   4. [FONT=&quot]Hyper- or hyporeactivity to sensory input or unusual interest in sensory aspects of the environment (e.g. apparent indifference to pain/temperature, adverse response to specific sounds or textures, excessive smelling or touching of objects, visual fascination with lights or movement). (down the road , from his parents we made find some of this - he had huge issues with dad being there and then not being there- changes are very very difficult for these folks)
      [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Specify[/FONT][FONT=&quot] current severity:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Severity is based on social communication impairments and restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior.[/FONT]

1. [FONT=&quot]Symptoms must be present in the early developmental period (but may not become fully manifest until social demands exceed limited capacities, or may be masked by learned strategies in later life).[/FONT]
2. [FONT=&quot]Symptoms cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of current functioning.[/FONT]
3. [FONT=&quot]These disturbances are not better explained by intellectual disability (intellectual developmental disorder) or global developmental delay. Intellectual disability and autism spectrum disorder frequently co-occur; to make comorbid diagnoses of autism spectrum disorder and intellectual disability, social communication should be below that expected for general developmental level.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Note[/FONT][FONT=&quot]: Individuals with a well-established DSM-IV diagnosis of autistic disorder, Asperger’s disorder, or pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified should be given the diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder. Individuals who have marked deficits in social communication, but whose symptoms do not otherwise meet criteria for autism spectrum disorder, should be evaluated for social (pragmatic) communication disorder.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Specify[/FONT][FONT=&quot] if: For him (me highlighting how he got "high functioning"within the illiness itself
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]With or without accompanying intellectual impairment-he was bright [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]With or without accompanying language impairment-(he could speak/write)[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/hcp-dsm.html[/FONT]

-(Ugh media is dragging sexual orientation into this – there is no correlation at all, nor is the illness anything like bipolar or schizophrenia – again liver cancer, prostate cancer or skin cancer all different, with different symptoms, treatments, prognosis etc.

.

 

[Paladine]

Of course not. It's important to be able to discuss a point of view without people assuming you are endorsing it just for discussing it. How else do we ever get to the point where we understand, which is the first step toward making things better?

It's frightening to me because there was a time in my life where I felt some of the things he describes, but I've never, ever had any desire to take it out on people the way he describes and the way he actually did. I have a pretty good memory but nowhere in there is a catalogue of every slight or rejection in detail.

The detail of slights, imagined or otherwise, is incredible. On page 88, he discusses seeing a girl walking across a bridge. He, for the first time yet in his writings, mentions he says HI to the girl. 1st time! He was 19! The girl did not say HI back and he went home and cried for hours. THAT is not healthy and sounds like agony, years of it. IMO, he needed some meds bigtime.

ETA: He seemed to put himself 'out there' by going for walks or sitting in cafes and bookstores waiting for a girl to come to him. He seemed terrified of actually approaching someone. Wow.

 

[Quester]

Here is info on the apartments.

Hard to say. It sounds like there is more to these apartments than just a place to live

http://capriiv.com/parents

:dunno: What is it that jumps out to you as being beyond a typical dorm situation? TIA

 

[andrea]

Although I am half way around the world, this hit close to home. One of my best friends' daughters is currently studying at UCSB. She's safe, thank god.

That's why I got caught up in the news, and I read the manifesto (most of it). The strange fact is that media and blogs blaming the women rejecting him got it all wrong. No woman ever rejected him, because he never approached any. He writes page after page about going out for a coffee and waiting for women to talk to him, going to classes expecting women to approach him and just being somewehere, expecting someone to acknowledge him , but it never happened.

I am not familiar with Aspergers symptoms, but if this is is in any way typical, he should have had more help. Not an excuse for killing people, obvoiously (I hope), but still food for thought.


...and, on a sidenote:

Who tells their child that due to taking an additional medication, birth control did not work and resulted in this child being born???

:notgood:

My mother did. And her mother (my grandmother) used to add that they would have paid for an abortion, if this option would have been legal at the time.

Yes, it hurt. No, I did not kill anyone as a result. And yes, I am still pro choice.

 

[Quester]

More on the apartments

http://capriiv.com/parents

Click on the activities.

I couldn't find "activities". Did you mean "amenities"?

 

[kaos]

A question that I have is: Apparently this young man's parents were supporting him. I would suppose paying his credit card bills, allowance, rent and car etc. When he was out buying three guns and all this ammunition (probably approx. $2500 or more) did it not show up in the bills? These were not cheap weapons, and not just one but three plus over 400 rounds of ammunition.

If your son has "issues" would you not scrutinize these things? If when they asked LE to do a "welfare check" back in April did they advise (or did they even know) that he had weapons?

JMO's

I haven't read the entire manifesto yet but was just saying to my OH that up until the age of 19, he hadn't written anything about being involved in any petty crime. I'd have expected most kids to have taken part in some sort of theft, vandalism etc to elevate their status within a peer group. When he didn't have the laptop he wanted for his gaming I was expecting to hear he'd maybe rattled up some debt on his step mom's credit cards or something similar but nothing so far. Maybe his 'magnificence' deemed all of that to be beneath him?

 

[jjenny]

They just look like normal student apartments to me. I don't think these apartments had anything to do with social skill training. Where did this idea even come from?

 

[jjenny]

Although I am half way around the world, this hit close to home. One of my best friends' daughters is currently studying at UCSB. She's safe, thank god.

That's why I got caught up in the news, and I read the manifesto (most of it). The strange fact is that media and blogs blaming the women rejecting him got it all wrong. No woman ever rejected him, because he never approached any. He writes page after page about going out for a coffee and waiting for women to talk to him, going to classes expecting women to approach him and just being somewehere, expecting someone to acknowledge him , but it never happened.

I am not familiar with Aspergers symptoms, but if this is is in any way typical, he should have had more help. Not an excuse for killing people, obvoiously (I hope), but still food for thought.


...and, on a sidenote:



My mother did. And her mother (my grandmother) used to add that they would have paid for an abortion, if this option would have been legal at the time.

Yes, it hurt. No, I did not kill anyone as a result. And yes, I am still pro choice.

Exactly. I don't think he ever actually approached any women. In his mind, he was special and women were supposed to approach him.
He was also lusting after tall blondes, who are not likely to go after a short guy. But he didn't seem to have any understanding of that.

 

[RazTaz]

A question that I have is: Apparently this young man's parents were supporting him. I would suppose paying his credit card bills, allowance, rent and car etc. When he was out buying three guns and all this ammunition (probably approx. $2500 or more) did it not show up in the bills? These were not cheap weapons, and not just one but three plus over 400 rounds of ammunition.

If your son has "issues" would you not scrutinize these things? If when they asked LE to do a "welfare check" back in April did they advise (or did they even know) that he had weapons?

JMO's

According to his manifesto one of his grandmothers also sent him money. He saved the money from his parents and grandmother. He spent thousands of this savings buying lottery tickets but made a point not to go below $5000 because he would need that to carry out his "Day of Retribution."

 

[Quester]

They just look like normal student apartments to me. I don't think these apartments had anything to do with social skill training. Where did this idea even come from?

I agree!

BBM - IMO the idea came from one of the Rodger's attorney's early statements.

[I'll see if I can find it and post it here.]

* * *

Here it is!

living with roommates at the Independent Living Institute in Santa Barbara, a facility that offers “living skills instruction to help adults with disabilities to live more independently in their communities,” according to the website.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2014...son-is-gunman-in-deadly-isla-vista-shootings/

 

[jjenny]

According to his manifesto one of his grandmothers also sent him money. He saved the money from his parents and grandmother. He spent thousands of this savings buying lottery tickets but made a point not to go below $5000 because he would need that to carry out his "Day of Retribution."

And he was very upset that he didn't win the lottery. He apparently expected to get rich by winning the lottery. Just like he expected tall blonde females to be approaching him. That's some delusional thinking right there. Police greatly misjudged him when they interviewed him for his welfare check

 

[jjenny]

Here is info on the apartments.

Hard to say. It sounds like there is more to these apartments than just a place to live

http://capriiv.com/parents

If there was more to them the website would just say it.
You have to pay extra for more.

 

[kaos]

Exactly. I don't think he ever actually approached any women. In his mind, he was special and women were supposed to approach him.
He was also lusting after tall blondes, who are not likely to go after a short guy. But he didn't seem to have any understanding of that.

He never seems to explain where this fixation of tall blondes comes from either. I'd expect him to name drop a few famous females who he sees fit to adorn his arm but no mention of Monroe, Pamela Anderson, Lady Gaga and he's never mentioned once of any time he's spoken to a brunette or redhead so it really does appear that no girl (apart from Maddy or his sister) speaks to him regardless of their colour of hair.

 

[Plumeria5]

Any word on the identity of the 3 bodies, I am assuming were his roommates.
I wonder if the one he made a citizen arrest on for the $22 candles was still living there?
Also, I would need to find a link, I think it was USA Today, that said he killed them at 9:30pm
or just before the drive by shooting rampage.

 

[jjenny]

He never seems to explain where this fixation of tall blondes comes from either. I'd expect him to name drop a few famous females who he sees fit to adorn his arm but no mention of Monroe, Pamela Anderson, Lady Gaga and he's never mentioned once of any time he's spoken to a brunette or redhead so it really does appear that no girl (apart from Maddy or his sister) speaks to him regardless of their colour of hair.

My guess he saw a tall blonde as an ultimate trophy girlfriend.

 

[kaos]

From what I assume is the local news

http://www.keyt.com/news/name-of-fourth-mass-murder-victim-revealed/26165132

 

[butwhatif?]

Exactly. People can say "The parents should have seen this coming", "They should have done more", "They had to have known". They DID know, they appear to have done just about everything parents could do in a situation like this. Some people are beyond hope, beyond rehabilitation. I don't want to blame LE for not putting him in a 5150 hold; he was extremely manipulative. Some people are sociopaths and will hide it until it's way too late.

It's a shame, because judging by his posts on those bodybuilding forums and that PUAHate forum, it was obvious he was homicidal. I understand that the police wouldn't have done in depth searches on his computer simply for a wellness check, but what's done is done...I don't think anyone could have forseen this happening. It's easy to see all the signs with everything laid out in front of us after the fact.

My prayers are with the victims, their families, and ER's family.

Ditto on all points...

~snip~

He said he <ER> learned that videos he posted online had alarmed his mother, and he believed either she or a mental health agency had asked authorities to check up on him.

"The police interrogated me outside for a few minutes, asking me if I had suicidal thoughts. I tactfully told them that it was all a misunderstanding, and they finally left," he said in the manifesto, according to the Times.

~snip~

Santa Barbara County Sheriff Bill Brown has said that Rodger was seen by a variety of health care professionals and it was "very, very apparent he was severely mentally disturbed."

Brown said his department had been in contact with Rodger three times prior to the killings, including for a welfare check in which deputies found him to be polite and courteous. He did not appear to meet criteria to be held involuntarily on mental health grounds, and deputies took no further action, Brown said.

"At the time the deputies interacted with him, he was able to convince them that he was OK," Brown told CBS' "Face the Nation" on Sunday.

"When you read his autobiography and the manifesto that he wrote, it's very apparent that he was able to convince many people for many years that he didn't have this deep, underlying, obvious mental illness that ultimately manifested itself in this terrible tragedy," he added.

~snip~ (BBM)

He <SBC Sheriff Bill Brown> told CBS that there was no evidence Rodger had ever been institutionalized or committed for an involuntary hold of any kind, situations that could have prohibited him from legally buying guns.

I'm curious about Browns wording when he says that ER was seen by a "variety of health care professionals" and it was "very, very apparent he was severely mentally disturbed."

I wonder if he meant to say "A variety of mental health professionals"?

I'm no expert on CA laws for involuntary psych holds, but based on what I've just read, if the call was made by a mental health agency,rather than a non-professional family member, LE could have legally hauled his butt off to a psych facility to be assessed by mental health professional on staff to determine if he required the 72 hour hold, without asking him a single question.

Another article (CBS LA) states "A social worker as recently as last week was concerned by Rodger’s behavior and contacted law enforcement."

So who knows?

I'm really hoping that Peter Rodger goes back to his roots in Hollywood by making a documentary about Mental illness using ER as an example of the "need to address mental illness and the ramifications from not recognosing these illnesses".

Shifman added: 'My clients’ mission in life will be to try and prevent any such tragedies from ever happening again.

'This country, this world needs to address mental illness and the ramifications from not recognizing these illnesses.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...against-women-rejected-him.html#ixzz32lfxtEI9

JMO