GUILTY CA - Erin Corwin, 19, pregnant, Twentynine Palms, 28 June 2014 - #7

[necco]

Although shooting one of my horses (especially my personal ride) makes me quite ill to think about, if I knew they could not be saved, I'm sure I would do that rather than have them suffer through an extended wait for a vet to put them down. We are definitely not in the boonies but your explanation makes a lot of sense and has me wondering what their pharmaceutical stocks look like, and how well protected they are. Especially with liquids, you might not notice anything wrong until there isn't enough left for the last dose that should be there. Hmm...

And someone could pull the teenager sneaking their parents' liquor trick and add water to the vial. (if you can stick a syringe in to get liquid out, you can stick a syringe in to add liquid)

 

[Bernina]

This is why I like to hold back before I post.......it let's me think outside of the box! :floorlaugh:

LE seems to be concentrating on firearms......but there are other "methods" that may have been at CL's disposal. And injections can be quiet, discreet, no mess, no noise, and can be done ANYWHERE. Like the front seat of a vehicle?:thinking:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

If we are to believe the comment that the documents we do have weren't supposed to be released, they didn't have any intention of releasing anything at all, much less whether or not they can document her leaving the base.

Also, since the probable cause statement was written for the express purpose of obtaining search warrants, they would only have included exactly what they needed to justify the request they were making at that time.

Because of those limitations, it's difficult to tell what they do and don't have.

I know. I just stated information I'd like to know the truth about before voting (as a juror). Not to mention, there's not been an arrest.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

This is why I like to hold back before I post.......it let's me think outside of the box! :floorlaugh:

LE seems to be concentrating on firearms......but there are other "methods" that may have been at CL's disposal. And injections can be quiet, discreet, no mess, no noise, and can be done ANYWHERE. Like the front seat of a vehicle?:thinking:

Or, don't forget about rough sex. There's at least one current case on WS where that's the purported cause of death of not one but two women. And there's a defense lawyer talking as if he believes it too.

Just because liar CL says he went hunting, doesn't mean he used a gun to kill Erin. Is there a reason LE believes he must have used a gun? Of course the guy owns guns - he's from Alaska and he's a marine. But you can knock someone unconscious (especially someone so petite) by hitting their head hard enough using a rifle or big stick.

I guess an investigation has to start somewhere.

 

[RainyAlaska]

This is why I like to hold back before I post.......it let's me think outside of the box! :floorlaugh:

LE seems to be concentrating on firearms......but there are other "methods" that may have been at CL's disposal. And injections can be quiet, discreet, no mess, no noise, and can be done ANYWHERE. Like the front seat of a vehicle?:thinking:

Keep thinking outside the box, Bernina. Every idea is worth considering. To me, firearms makes the most sense given what we know about the suspect.

CL is male, young, a Marine and a hunter. Guns would be the simplest choice for him. But the horse drug(s) possibility is intriguing.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Actually, I think it was the opposite with MacDonald. His long road to justice started with an Article 32 hearing because he was still in the Army and the crime occurred on base. It ended up in civilian court, years later, after his father in law petitioned the Justice Department to take action.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/family/jmacdonald/8.html

Here's a recap of the series of events in the Jeffrey MacDonald case. This is a case where there remains a lot of debate over whether or not MacDonald committed the crimes.

 

[vasportsmom]

If Erin told everyone that she was going to JT, why not kill her there? The same group of college friends and I have been there 16 years in a row (with the exception of 2000 when I was 9 months pregnant) and the cliffs that draw up could be deadly to others. IMO there are some of the best vertical climbs in the country in JT but someone unfamiliar with the terrain could land in trouble in a hurry. Even geocaching seems like a full contact sport in many areas of the park. There are just so many options for staging an accident there. Maybe he did and LE hasn't found her yet but I'm going to keep hoping that Erin walked out on her own.

 

[Seajay]

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/family/jmacdonald/8.html

Here's a recap of the series of events in the Jeffrey MacDonald case. This is a case where there remains a lot of debate over whether or not MacDonald committed the crimes.

I was fascinated by the Jeffrey McDonald case because at the time it happened, my husband was in the USArmy at another base. This hit close to home for me, being a military wife and all at the time. Especially with his first story that hippie types came in and killed his wife and children after knocking him out. Military wives are left alone a lot, while their husbands are on duty.

 

[maskedwoman]

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/family/jmacdonald/8.html

Here's a recap of the series of events in the Jeffrey MacDonald case. This is a case where there remains a lot of debate over whether or not MacDonald committed the crimes.

It has been a long time since I read the book, so thank you. I noted some fairly purple prose but I believe this article confirms that his case did start with a military hearing. Is that correct? I would have been very comfortable voting guilty, but I agree there was plenty of weirdness to go around. I remember watching interviews with him off and on over the years and I instinctively recoiled from him every time. To borrow a quote from Jose Baez, there is something not right about that man.

 

[branwynbreeze]

I tell ya, if someone looked at my google history.....

One thing I learned from Casey Anthony trial was chloroform can easily be made.

As far as euthanasia for horses, a bullet. I seem to remember this load thing you put to horses head, but cannot remember details. I know animal control here will use a gun in an emergency with livestock. When I was doing active rescue strongest stuff I usually had on hand was Ace, Valium and Bute.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

It would be hard to find someone who has not, in the past, done something they swore they would not do...or did something even though they knew better. Very hard. Teenagers, adults, older people....yeah.

Especially when it comes to posting on WS - lol!

 

[Dallen]

I tell ya, if someone looked at my google history.....

Snipped
Right?!?! WS has warped my mind.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

It has been a long time since I read the book, so thank you. I noted some fairly purple prose but I believe this article confirms that his case did start with a military hearing. Is that correct? I would have been very comfortable voting guilty, but I agree there was plenty of weirdness to go around. I remember watching interviews with him off and on over the years and I instinctively recoiled from him every time. To borrow a quote from Jose Baez, there is something not right about that man.

Yes, MacDonald was tried within the military first. I posted a link so interested people could read about or review the case. We can't assume everyone is familiar with a case and I went there to refresh my memory as well. I like the Crime Library and some people may not know about the site.

o/t - I don't know about everyone else but when reading a case thread, where the subjects within the case are interspersed throughout the thread, just to catch up sometimes I'll skip spending a lot of time on one concept or link provided within a post. Then later (if I remember or took a note) I'll go back to explore that thought or study a map, etc. At the time, I may not have taken time to look up MacDonald even though I'm interested.

 

[Seajay]

Yes, MacDonald was tried within the military first. I posted a link so interested people could read about or review the case. We can't assume everyone is familiar with a case and I went there to refresh my memory as well. I like the Crime Library and some people may not know about the site.

o/t - I don't know about everyone else but when reading a case thread, where the subjects within the case are interspersed throughout the thread, just to catch up sometimes I'll skip spending a lot of time on one concept or link provided within a post. Then later (if I remember or took a note) I'll go back to explore that thought or study a map, etc. At the time, I may not have taken time to look up MacDonald even though I'm interested.

I believe the reason Jeffrey McDonald was tired by the military first was because the crime happened on post, in military housing. That's why the military takes the lead. When a crime involving military takes place on civilian land, then the local law enforcement agency takes the lead in investigation and prosecuting the case. In JD's case, his father in law brought civil charges against him so he was tried again after he was tried in the military courts.

 

[maskedwoman]

Yes, MacDonald was tried within the military first. I posted a link so interested people could read about or review the case. We can't assume everyone is familiar with a case and I went there to refresh my memory as well. I like the Crime Library and some people may not know about the site.

o/t - I don't know about everyone else but when reading a case thread, where the subjects within the case are interspersed throughout the thread, just to catch up sometimes I'll skip spending a lot of time on one concept or link provided within a post. Then later (if I remember or took a note) I'll go back to explore that thought or study a map, etc. At the time, I may not have taken time to look up MacDonald even though I'm interested.

No problem at all. I just wanted to make sure my brains were not scrambled for the day yet, LOL.

 

[cluciano63]

How long ago did Erin and Jon marry? Just so sad that their marriage seemed to have turned bad so quickly, Imo, especially since they had known each other for at least a few years. I thought they were almost newlyweds...anyway...

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I was fascinated by the Jeffrey McDonald case because at the time it happened, my husband was in the USArmy at another base. This hit close to home for me, being a military wife and all at the time. Especially with his first story that hippie types came in and killed his wife and children after knocking him out. Military wives are left alone a lot, while their husbands are on duty.

Yes, I know that too Seajay. When as a military wife I was left alone many times for months on end. If in a foreign country, you feel even more isolated than ever. It was sink or swim time! And during our years, there wasn't Internet - just long distance calling and snail mail!

 

[Bernina]

I tell ya, if someone looked at my google history.....

One thing I learned from Casey Anthony trial was chloroform can easily be made.

As far as euthanasia for horses, a bullet. I seem to remember this load thing you put to horses head, but cannot remember details. I know animal control here will use a gun in an emergency with livestock. When I was doing active rescue strongest stuff I usually had on hand was Ace, Valium and Bute.

"Bang stick", has a .22 cal bullet or a thick nail, depending on whether you have the option of a air compressor available.
I was raised on a farm, have raised my own meat for decades, and helped others with their home growns...

 

[hawkhd]

Is it possible the JT was just a "cover story" by CL to get EC to drop her guard........EC used that as a reason to leave the base, not knowing it was a ruse. CL may have said "Let's get together and discuss our options, paternity testing, divorce, raising the child as your husband's..." etc. CL continued that JT ruse with his wife....."Going hunting in JT..."
If the intention HAD been to spend the day at JT, why would she have left her vehicle there so close to the base where it could have been spotted if she planned to be away for the entire day? The idea of a pregnant woman out in JT (who is not used to the temps) looking for trails or photo possibilities seems totally ridiculous to me.
The intended place where CL was taking EC quite likely might have been anywhere BUT JT. When EC and CL met, he may have asked her to turn her cell off so they'd have uninterrupted privacy, for what she may have thought was going to be no more than a few hours at most. She wouldn't have turned it off very long because the whole point was not to raise suspicion............and it looks like these 2 were pretty good at covering their illicit activities from both spouses.
Could CL's wife busted him and was actually the mastermind of EC's disappearance? "Hell hath no fury..." we've seen it before.

Another question here.........Most horse rescues have access to veterinarian supplies/meds/injectables on site. It cuts down on their overhead and usually there's a vet who will give them a supply of prescription pain killers, sedatives, even euthanasia, etc., to have on hand, without actually seeing any horse that is in need of them. There'd be a record of what was given to the rescue, how many units, etc., and the rescue should have a "paper trail" (digital or whatever) as to who (animal) these medications where dispensed to and a physical inventory of what's at hand. If this IS a non-profit, they'd have to keep really good records.

If you've ever seen a horse sedated for castration.......that same stuff would knock out, if not kill a person. As far as euthanasia..........if one of the horses was mortally wounded, the rescue would want to dispatch it ASAP, not wait what could be hours for a vet to get on site, and shooting isn't an option for most rescues, though extremely quick and painless, it just doesn't sit right with most people who release their horses to the rescue, or those that financially support the rescue. So..........it would be quite common to have those available.

Has anyone heard or seen any attempt by LE to inventory the pharmaceuticals at the horse rescue?

*Read all through the threads, I like posting late in the game after sifted through everything!*:blushing:

The situation you are describing is HIGHLY illegal. NO vet would go for that. No reputable vet, anyhow.

 

[hawkhd]

I'm a horse trainer with my own facility and I've owned horses for 15 years at other facilities prior. I have never seen euthanasia drugs in a barn before. I have on hand some antibiotics and two kinds of anti-inflammatories. That's it. For any emergency, I call the vet. I have seen mild sedatives (more of an anti-anxiety) like Acepromazine in facilities I've worked at before. That's the hardest substance I've ever seen in a barn.

I've also worked as a tech for small animal rescues, including the largest no-kill shelter in the city of Chicago. All controlled substances were logged and carefully maintained, and they were only administered by a veterinarian. If there were any suspicion of stockpiling illegal drugs, IM would be in jail.

Exactly right. My family has a 30+ year relationship with my VERY "liberal" vet, and we stock nothing stronger than Ace-- and he always asks who/what I may need it for.