Found Deceased CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ John Root Fitzpatrick, 55, (fnd dec.), 30 Jul ‘23 #2

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I'm Nobody said:
BBM. Thank you for sharing these facts with us @mark1969
I'm curious if Fang shared with anyone how she & Fitzpatrick were getting along or any impressions she had after meeting him in person, or any feelings about being in the US. Online impressions vs real life are often very different.

Fang's last video, without knowing her or the text comment, seemed odd to me as well. It was almost as if someone was recording without knowing the camera was set to record. But Fang sent the recording so apparently it was not made by accident. I'm probably reading too much into the text message but "look to the lights" made no sense to me. The innocent meaning was most likely we are going to look at the stars or the sunset. After a long hot day that would be pushing it for me. OR If Fang was into meditation as stated earlier in these threads, she may have read Look at the Lights, My Love, which is a "meditation on class and consumer culture, from 2022 Nobel laureate for literature, Annie Ernaux." Using the simple phrase almost exactly from the book's title in her text FANG could have been trying to let her loved ones know she was NOT having a really great time here for whatever reasons.

Wishing you answers.
Just my speculation looking for possible clues. MOO

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From what I’ve seen, Fang wrote her WeChat photos/video captions in Chinese, so “Look at the lights” sounds like a translation that could make sense, where she panned her camera left and right in the dark night road drive, showing the city lights.

I posted a prior screenshot of a sample of her “Moments” that was shown on one of the Chinese articles (I put through Google Translate), and she wrote in an inspirational, poetic way, IMO.
 
10ofRods said:
Thank you for being a paramedic. And for confirming just how dangerous the heat has been and can be. I keep reading that DeAnza-Borrego SP has pretty good cell service - but not up the canyons.

The place they would have been trying to get to (if both were on the same hike that day) is higher up than where the truck was parked, and there appears to me that there's lots of scrambling and steep terrain to get to the petroglyphs (or even, into the Canyon). What if Jin Fang was injured? Twisted ankle? Short or long fall? And he has no cell service?

This would explain the fact that her wallet and ID were not found (she would have taken them with her, because most of us fear break-ins any time we leave a vehicle unattended in a state park or other recreational area). If she was unable to walk, then surely JRF would have panicked. We don't know how far he was from the truck, just that he was found in the vicinity of the truck.

It could be a case of wilderness misadventure in the heat. Manner of Death has not been revealed yet (just the identification of the body).
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Your comments on conditions of high temperatures lead me to consider the possibility that the heat exposure may have also caused damage to her cell phone.
 
Bogbacal2 said:
Agree. I do not think they were prepared. I was suspicious at first, but now I am starting to think they did go for a hike/exploring. Jin possibly got sick/heat stroke. John was trying to get back to the truck to go for help. Phone may have been inactive? Also, If Jin communicated every other day, possibly every couple of days, this may make sense as to why/when cmcn stopped. I was in the mind frame that John is a Navy Seal and should be able to adapt- If Seal training was on east coast, and long ago, no supplies-no level of training can stop the body from responding to that kind of heat. Being a paramedic, I have seen several heat related deaths in La in the last 4 months.
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I’m just speculating here on possibility suffered some type medical crises- he obviously experienced significant weight lossfrom time photo on missing persons online flier was taken (Driver’s License, likely) and Jin took selfie photos. From his criminal history charges involved alcohol with DUI’s. So, say someone was forced not to consume alcohol for say probation rules, would side effects from alcohol withdrawal over time cause significant weight loss and would that possibly result in weakening of the physical body condition to withstand high temperatures? All simply hypothetical scenarios.
 
10ofRods said:
Me too. It's clear that LE is keeping back details, so I am going out on a limb and thinking MoD for JRF is suicide.

The only other possibility I can think of is that it is wilderness misadventure - but typically, when people are found, there are more details and LE isn't so tight-lipped. Instead, LE describes the circumstances and what people can do to keep the same thing from happening to them.

If something happened to Fang on July 21, and then he went to Julian - this would be the next stop past Julian (IOW, not far from Julian).

It's really angering if he died without revealing where she is.
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i find it a bit strange and offputting that many here seem to hold the assumption the dc'd harmed Fang. We have no idea. All we know is that they were dating.
 
@mark1969 hi mark - i am confused by what you mean, regarding Fang's last video as being worrying or a cry for help? is it the video with the song on in the truck, driving at night? i see nothing out of the ordinary..
 
NeverPersonal said:
they don't always check passengers at gates. i'd go with my army friend to get gas for his car on base and they never ID'd me, just waved
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That's been my experience at bases in the US as a passenger as well.

The base (ironic, given it just came up as JRF apparently had been posted there at some point) in Bahrain is the one base I was checked in/out of. And that was probably more due to it being there during very volatile times in the region plus in a foreign country as I actually had to show my passport.
 
Dhighsmith said:
I’m just speculating here on possibility suffered some type medical crises- he obviously experienced significant weight lossfrom time photo on missing persons online flier was taken (Driver’s License, likely) and Jin took selfie photos. From his criminal history charges involved alcohol with DUI’s. So, say someone was forced not to consume alcohol for say probation rules, would side effects from alcohol withdrawal over time cause significant weight loss and would that possibly result in weakening of the physical body condition to withstand high temperatures? All simply hypothetical scenarios.
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Speaking from personal experience, he looks like someone who has gotten healthy from giving up substances in the more recent photos. Generally, people don’t suffer acute withdrawal beyond the first week and a bit. I wouldn’t expect any medical complications from having stopped using drugs/alcohol at the stage we might assume he was at if he was looking that well.

Unfortunately, people getting sober doesn’t clear up the underlying issues and many people still struggle with their mental health, with anger, with anxiety and depression, etc. even when they are physically feeling well.

Totally JMO but due to JRF’s relationship and criminal history, I’ve always felt like this was a case of someone who snapped and did something awful and then panicked and ran. Him being found in a remote location ‘nearby’ his parked truck and Fang not with him, my gut tells me this was self-harm. MOO

What would it take for LE to re-classify Fang’s case as not voluntary missing? I think it’s clear now that, whatever happened, it’s unlikely she has simply gone off grid for an adventure, given her travel companion has been found dead. I’m really sorry to Fang’s friends and family who have had to deal with so much uncertainty while searching for her.
 
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NeverPersonal said:
i find it a bit strange and offputting that many here seem to hold the assumption the dc'd harmed Fang. We have no idea. All we know is that they were dating.
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It's actually a very common assumption that something along those lines MAY have happened. Barely any members on this site have come outright and said that IS what occurred, it's just one of several theories (and not without reasoning due to criminal history that has come to light.)

In the comments following a story online "woman flies to the US to meet a man she met online and then disappears", every other comment was suggesting foul play with all manner of conjecture without actually knowing anything about JRF. On another site r/ talking about the situation, well, suffice to say the same pattern emerged.

When anyone goes missing, LE focus on the last person they were seen with... just saying, it's not strange, it's kinda normal. And as I mentioned before, hardly anyone has outright said he did something...only that it might have been the case. LE will have thought the same thing at some point...whether they still do now will depend on how their Investigation is going. MOO
 
If Fang sent the video out late in the evening on the 21st California time, and she was in the pattern of being in contact every one to two days, what prompted people to try calling her less than a day later (around lunch time the next day)? Did they find the video to be strange, or did they regularly call her and she would answer?

I too am interested in what she said about how they were getting along. It certainly happens where relationships are formed online, but I have found that online communications don't always translate to a natural in-person connection -- even with friends.

This will be especially true with romantic connections, where you can't tell what chemistry you have or even really what a person sounds/looks/acts like. I once had a date with a guy I met online and had spent 20+ hours video chatting with, and texting, over the prior three months. We only had that one dinner. He ended things with me after that, and had he not, I expect I would have ended things after our 4th date, per my history. I had a lot of built in optimism and hope for the guy, but in person I did not think we had the chemistry I had built up in my head and he had an effeminate quality I had not noticed online.

And even if both parties meet and are mutually attracted to each other, and get along with each other, there can still be different expectations about when that relationship should become intimate -- the person can feel like a stranger to you in person no matter how many hours you put in talking online. When they are sharing accommodations, it is that much more important to be on the same page, and it's really impossible to know how you'll feel in advance. And also from my personal experience, even if you tell a guy directly and in advance to not expect anything, that may not be enough to prevent him from being absolutely shocked/hurt/angry when nothing happens.

Then add in a likely language barrier and cultural differences. And add in being together 24/7. In isolation. And in extreme weather conditions that can make it difficult for a person to cope with anything.

It can't be understated how extremely difficult and vulnerable of a position they both put themselves in, from the beginning.

Then we have knowledge of his violent criminal history to consider.

Anytime a man and a woman go missing on a road trip, with no signs of an accident, an altercation between the two will be a possibility people will consider. I remember once making the comment, "Remind me to never do a cross-country road trip with a boyfriend," on an entirely different discussion about another woman who at the time was missing while traveling with her boyfriend. It has not uncommonly been one of the outcomes. Then as I outlined above, there are many reasons to think their situation may have had more likelihood for conflict than established romantic couples.

And we heard from early on in this discussion that she went out of communication a few days before him and in a different location from him.

Then we heard he was found deceased, but that the response by law enforcement and related agencies seems to be different from what would be expected in a case where heat stroke appears to be the likely cause of death.

All that said, to respond to those who have raised concerns over this, the thought that foul play may have been involved in her disappearance is not baseless and has not come out of nowhere, but it is of course not the only possibility.
 
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NeverPersonal said:
i find it a bit strange and offputting that many here seem to hold the assumption the dc'd harmed Fang. We have no idea. All we know is that they were dating.
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This is a thread for missing person FJ, an innocent victim. Though her case is inextricably linked to JRF--despite the worst efforts of the SBCSO--it is not here. I toyed with starting a JRF missing thread but figured it would attract the same uninspiring reaction as the actual-boots-on-the-ground search in his home community.
We actually know a bit more than you let on. But for me, the only question is: What did FJ know?
We know at their first interaction on-line earlier this year, JRF had a current diagnosis, for the previous four years, of 'substance abuse and mental health issues resulting in criminal behavior' (his four arrests). But did FJ know?
It has been reported--but unsubstantiated--that a background check was conducted; verifying identity, military background and employment. But not criminal, really? A rudimentary check would reveal JRF was in the purview of the criminal justice system. So, perhaps she was aware of the circumstances and is even more saintly than I imagine.
Then again, also likely she was not aware. In which case, would JRF voluntarily disclose the nature of his sticky predicament? Judging solely on the content of character, an individual both undergoing recovery and pursuing a romantic relationship, a person of high character would make these admissions.
I'm certainly no expert, but the basic tenets of successful recovery and healthy relationships are not too dissimilar; total transparency, open/honest dialogue and an admission of shortcomings. Further, my observations are, relationships (and recovery) meeting these parameters are generally enduring whereas relationships based on deception tend to end rather quickly, sometimes dramatically.
We also know three months after their first interaction. JRF was cured of his disorders--in the determination of the Veterans Treatment Court--with his scheduled three-year probationary period halved for good behavior.
We know JRF was 'highly intelligent, functioned well in structured environments and had an unnatural capacity for adapting to extreme environments and situations'. I believe, though JRF was not 'gaming the system', he was determined to do whatever he felt necessary to end the probationary terms. I mean, have you seen the photos? Mission accomplished, all charges dismissed late April of this year, full rights restored.
We also know, twelve weeks later, FJ landed in the desert and was in the company/care of JRF for five days of excursions across the basin. Shortly thereafter FJ reported missing, JRF a week later. Two months later (3-4 weeks ago) JRF found dead, circumstances under seal. JF still missing.
<modsnip: not victim friendly/speculation based on facts not known at this time> But what did FJ know?
 
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NeverPersonal said:
i find it a bit strange and offputting that many here seem to hold the assumption the dc'd harmed Fang. We have no idea. All we know is that they were dating.
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I'm sorry that you have a problem with considering all possible hypotheses about what could have happened to Jin Fang. In the post you replied to, I mentioned two different ideas about what could have happened.

I had more theories on my list before the truck was found (namely, vehicle accident, both of them injured, stranded - and unable to self-rescue). But finding the truck without Fang near it means that they didn't just break down or go off the road and find themselves too far from cell service or a main road. And Fang was not in the same place as JFR.

Either, as I said, it was misadventure due to heat/desert conditions (and she's still out there within walking distance of the truck - which is still possibly several square miles) OR something else, possibly nefarious happened.

It's hard for me to believe that they were carjacked or waylaid in some way and in two different places. However, that's a third possibility. The MoD of JRF will either keep that one on the table or remove it.

The fact that LE have not put out a BOLO or other alert for a killer makes me think that JRF's death did not look like a homicide. If it did, the San Diego papers would mention it. If LE thinks it's a murder and is hiding that from the public, that would be one of the most unusual crimes I've followed in SoCal. LE has the responsibility to protect the rest of us. If JRF was murdered, then that likely means that Fang Jin also interacted with this bad actor/group of bad actors and her missing person's case should be treated as a possible kidnapping.

But that's not happening.

Aside from homicide, we have accidental death, suicide or natural causes. Heat stroke would be considered a natural cause, I believe. It's possible that JRF died of heat stroke while trying to bring aid to Fang, who had an accident.

So, as I stated, I have three theories about MoD for each of them. But I don't think JRF's death was a homicide. Nor was it an accident. That leaves just two options for what a death certificate might say.

We do a lot of speculating here on WS, and that's mine. I've jumped to no conclusions. I have two main options on the table for JFR's passing and more options for Fang (but I don't think it was a homicide/kidnapping scenario).

One of the options on the table for Fang, for me, is still homicide. Another is that she's somehow still alive. Others are natural causes (heat) or accident. So one option that seems increasingly unlikely (she's still alive), and 3 other possibilities for manner of death. If Fang was murdered, then yes, her romantic partner is on my list of suspects, as always.

IMO.
 
TravelingBug said:
That's been my experience at bases in the US as a passenger as well.

The base (ironic, given it just came up as JRF apparently had been posted there at some point) in Bahrain is the one base I was checked in/out of. And that was probably more due to it being there during very volatile times in the region plus in a foreign country as I actually had to show my passport.
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Mine too. Both my husband and I have had military passes for a large local base (we were teaching on base) and only one of us ever had to show our pass to get in, if one of us decided to accompany the other. Entry into the base was merely flashing a pass that each of us had, individually, after a background check. Neither of us has ever been part of the military. Civilian workers at bases tell me this is common for them (to be able to bring a guest and not have that person's ID checked). We also had to register our cars, so I suspect the surveillance video and license plate reading was more important to them, in the event that someone got onto base who shouldn't be there.

In the case of the base in 29 Palms, it's so thoroughly integrated into the town itself that I can imagine very little checking at the gate late at night, especially since they likely have cameras everywhere. It's a small base, so if JRF went there regularly, it's possible he was recognized at the gate and no questions were asked about his companion.

I will say that Camp Pendleton is much stricter than the base near me, or the base near Riverside (where I've been many times as a child, as the guest of a military family member).

IMO

NeverPersonal said:
i dont have a problem considering all hypothesis, but the assumptions about JRF abusing drugs / killing his gf when he is also listed as a missing person who was found deceased is... a bit much
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Are people assuming he did so or merely engaging in speculation and conjecture? I read it as very much the second thing.

Assumption is a very strong and loaded word compared to conjecture or theory, IMO.

He was convicted of substance abuse, so that's not an assumption, btw. He seems to have cleaned up, but no one is ever cured of an addiction, they are in recovery from it. Most addictions have a genetic component, in my view. However, there are studies and statistics on relapse. People do relapse. His former wife has a domestic restraining order against him which, in California, means that he is banned from owning a gun and has done something that the court considers a serious enough issue/threat to his ex-wife to award an R/O. I think they're divorced - they might have still been in court, I don't know. This is not a small thing, in my book. A man on an R/O is not a great candidate as a women's new friend or romantic partner. Several of us are wondering if Fang knew about the R/O.

I don't see anyone assuming that JRF killed JF, simply mulling over what could have happened to the still-missing person now that one of them has been found deceased (and the circumstances sealed by LE so far - which means there is an investigation ongoing, at the very least).

The links about the R/O have been posted up thread. His criminal background is not hypothetical either. His California-based legal problems have concluded, but he still has an unexpunged record from another state (and maybe one in California, I can't remember). Assaults, not property crimes.

I do think it's very important to keep all hypotheses on the table. It may be months before we hear about JRF's manner or cause of death.
 
sfinkz said:
<modsnip: not victim friendly/speculation based on facts not known at this time> But what did FJ know?
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RSBM

What you are leaving out is context. We know the penal codes and descriptions of the charges associated with them, and we know the sentencing. We do not know what was happening when any of those crimes were committed, other than the info that was shared regarding the assault on his ex-wife's boyfriend.

I am not condoning violent behavior or criminal acts, but a great many people have had bad breakups and have behaved badly as a result. Just because I'm mad and jealous and hurt enough to take my feelings out on my ex's new romantic partner doesn't mean that I'm a danger to society at large -- my behavior is driven by that specific relationship.

And just because someone acted out in such a situation doesn't make them "of questionable character". I myself drive over the speed limit every morning because I'm habitually late for work, but despite the fact that I'm a lawbreaker and commit crimes daily, I don't think I should be condemned as a villain since there is a bit of context that Joe Public doesn't know. Maybe I'm late because I'm making sure an elderly neighbor with dementia is picked up in the morning for day treatment and doesn't wander off. Maybe I'm late because I'm lazy and don't get up on time. It may not justify me committing the crime, but that information is necessary before you can form an opinion as to whether I have a questionable character.

Just wanted to add that rehabilitation is supposed to be a component of this country's penal system. We penalize people not only to punish them, but to instigate change and rehabilitate the person so they won't do it again. There is no justice without that piece, at least not in this country. To punish someone for the sake of punishment alone is really just torture. Someone can make light of a judge's decision to reduce JRF's probation, but unless that person is also a judge, their opinion carries about as much weight as my husband yelling at the referees when he's watching football on TV.

Passing a snap judgement as to JRF's character and without any details as to what has actually happened not only does a disservice to him, but it also makes it appear that FJ, whom by all accounts was intelligent and independent, wasn't capable of forming a valid opinion of JRF and her safety. From the little information provided, I believe that FJ was more than capable of sound judgement, and if there were any signs that she was uncomfortable or in fear she would have conveyed that to her friends/family in some way.

MOO.
 
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The content of the word "character" is entirely up to the user. Some people think a person has "good character" and another person thinks the opposite. No one sets a standard in this regard for others.

Again, I'm not really interested in assessing someone's character (for that very reason) but statistically, when a woman is murdered, it's more likely to be a romantic partner than any other category of relationship. I think we all know that. It seems Jin Fang trusted JRF. I see no unusual elements in any of the photos she took, myself.

But, since the investigation is currently sealed, I think something is afoot. I assume that there has been a thorough, LE-led search of the one trail that leads from that parking area (hopefully with drones, I would assume so). So each morning I hope there's news of finding Jin Fang.

If she made a spontaneous decision of some sort to part ways with JRF and is hiding out somewhere, I find that unlikely but not impossible. Stranger things have happened.
 
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