Found Deceased CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ John Root Fitzpatrick, 55, (fnd dec.), 30 Jul ‘23 #2

[10ofRods]

Is it possible the "smell of decomposition" was necessary to get a warrant but not entirely accurate?

So you think the responding officer lied about this crucial detail? They did NOT need to add in the homicide appendix - they still would have gotten their SW without that extra appendix.

If the responding officer made it up to get a warrant, that's absolutely illegal and terrible. So I don't think that's what happened. The door was standing open for a reason, IMO. The officer did the right thing in noting the decomp smell and going for a warrant - to preserve the investigation ahead.

By now, surely they've sent some kind of forensic people to that mobile home, so LE knows for sure whether there's decomp products in there - and it would be absolutely the worst policing to continue to allow the public to believe there was a dead body in that mobile home, if there's no evidence at all.

It is now one of the central facts of this case and very alarming. I've known of several missteps by SBCSO in the past, but never have I seen an actual document go to a judge with a blatant lie in it.

 

[LucyOso]

I do believe DH has access to JRF’s home. IMO, their bond grew during JRF’s 16-month treatment program. After violating its terms (driving on dui-suspended license) the first month, he completed the program 4/26/23 without further incident. DH would nave been instrumental in shuttling JRF to the commissary and probation review appts as well as serving as a sounding board, IMO.
The seized SD card from Ring camera has recorded the comings and goings at site #48 for how long?
Has there been a time stamp associated with the 7/22 Thermal pic of blue truck?
Re cleaning photos: immediately creeped me out. Only because LE asked DH if in possession of any photos and the sneakingly-snapped images is all he had? Could have been taken by JRF and sent to DH, or vice-a-versa, with offensive intent, IMO.
And there are others in this group? The SW mention of the duct tape man 7/3? That pic of JRF in the CBS-8 report, flanked by two men looking scary despite being pixelated.

BBM.I totally agree. Most treatment programs require a "sponsor", someone who supports you and in a way holds you accountable. Sobriety/rehab is only successful when self-initiated and self-driven. But people do require a peer or support person that is available to prevent relapse or to coach. Usually these sponsors or support people have successfully gone through their own programs. I know with AA you have a sponsorr...so guessing VA treatment programs are similar.

 

[10ofRods]

I thought about this, but if you look at the 2 pictures, they are in the same place but the angles are different. In one there is a blue blanket like thing and another it is gone. Camera would be fixed. If a indoor camera, it also seems it is placed in a way that certainly doesn't capture a whole room like you would want. I think the stills are recorded from DH phone secretly. IMOO.

I tend to agree (although I can't really weigh in on the secrecy part - it does look a bit surreptitious, but I need a bit more to decide whether DH (who may take lots and lots of videos every day for all we know) was being secretive. The two different angles and the change in zoom say it was a handheld phone camera to me, and not a security camera. Filming one's friend and their new girlfriend on the down low may just be how DH rolls. If he does it enough, people get used to it, I guess. It's just one of many strange things about this case.

 

[patternsfinder]

I keep thinking about Thermal, and what/who is there.

If you recall, a Sleuth did some incredible work to identify the likely location of one of the car pics. You can view that analysis in this post.

Per the map, for whatever reason, JRF and JF drove out towards Indio/Thermal/etc on July 16th. The image has them driving West on the 10, likely back towards the 62, which leads up to Morongo Valley.

Why, on JF's first full day visiting, did they drive out there? There's no real reason for that to be a place to take a tourist, let alone on their first day in the area. Also the recent news article confirms that both JF and JRF are on camera shopping on the base on the 16th. Driving from JRF's home to the base is a notable drive in one direction, but where they were on camera on the 10, on the same day, is in the opposite direction.

Does JRF have some friend he wanted to visit, who lives near Thermal? DH? Or someone else? Did he go back to visit whomever on the 22nd while deciding what to do?

I'm sure LE has much more information about all of this. But for some reason JRF felt it important to drive out that way on JF's first day.

 

[tvscum]

This is far fetched, but wondering if the trailer isn't really a dead body crime scene.

Is it possible the "smell of decomposition" was necessary to get a warrant but not entirely accurate?

IMO yes, it's possible LE included that statement to convince a judge to issue the search warrant. Of course, the statement may be true, they smelled something from the door when they went to do a welfare check, but it was not human decomposition.

 

[LucyOso]

This isn’t correct on a chemical level:

The Indescribable Scent Of Dead Bodies: Researchers Identify Unique Gases Emitted By Decomposing Human Flesh

In order to more effectively find victims' bodies after crime or natural disasters, scientists are working on identifying the unique compound decomposing human bodies release.

www.medicaldaily.com

However, whether the average human nose can actually distinguish between the decomposition scents of a human, a pig, or a mouse I’m not sure about.



That occurred to me too, although technically a strong odor can be detected before stage 3 (‘active decay’) starts.

Still, aside from the odor, we don’t know why a homicide supplement was added to the police report. Possibly, as others have said, it was the smell and the absence of a source (meat on counter, etc).

Respectfully BBM. The article said smell, LE smelled decomposition. It didn't mention chemical analysis. It didn't mention there was an actual body or tissue that was emitting gases resulting in the smell. So, yeah, technically I am not correct but I am also not incorrect. If I missed something about sniffers dogs hitting on human body scent in a part of the trailer, I apologize. Dogs can tell.

The human nose can't tell the difference. If you look at interviews from search/rescue of any mass casualty natural disaster-tsunmani, earthquakes, or even manmade distorters like bombings, etc...after a certain amount of time, searchers will follow smells, sometimes its a human, sometimes a dog, or cat. It all starts smelling the same.

 

[patternsfinder]

Also! Thinking more about known things. On the 16th JF and JRF were on camera shopping on the base. (Per the recent news article.) In order to drive onto the base, did JF show identification that was approved? She must have. As she was walking around shopping with JRF and caught on camera, she was not hidden while JRF was on base.

(There have been conversations on here about whether this base requires ID checks at the gate. It does. It is an active training base for Marines, frequently practicing bombing. (My anxious dog has many opinions about these bombings lol.) There is a whole fake city built out there to resemble a middle eastern city for Marines to practice combat. It is not a chill small base you can just enter unnoticed.)

But, per our VI, four minutes after JF's last video was sent on the night of 7/21, JRF was seen driving onto the base without JF. It would be basically impossible for JF to have been removed from the car in those four minutes, without her having been found by now. (Tight time window. They were on the main street in 29 Palms, with lots of traffic, people, shops, etc. It's not a place where a person or body could be dumped without that person or body being noticed quickly. If not that night, definitely the next day.)

So JRF most likely had JF hidden as he drove onto the base on the night of the 21st. Why? Why did he hide her on that visit, when she had already been on the base previously, and was documented and recorded as such?

 

[LucyOso]

Is it possible the "smell of decomposition" was necessary to get a warrant but not entirely accurate?

Very much so. Like everyone knows something is off, but to jump through a legal loophole there has to be something that hints at a crime or something illegal? I don't know the law that well though.

 

[LucyOso]

So you think the responding officer lied about this crucial detail? They did NOT need to add in the homicide appendix - they still would have gotten their SW without that extra appendix.

If the responding officer made it up to get a warrant, that's absolutely illegal and terrible. So I don't think that's what happened. The door was standing open for a reason, IMO. The officer did the right thing in noting the decomp smell and going for a warrant - to preserve the investigation ahead.

By now, surely they've sent some kind of forensic people to that mobile home, so LE knows for sure whether there's decomp products in there - and it would be absolutely the worst policing to continue to allow the public to believe there was a dead body in that mobile home, if there's no evidence at all.

It is now one of the central facts of this case and very alarming. I've known of several missteps by SBCSO in the past, but never have I seen an actual document go to a judge with a blatant lie in it.

BBM. I didn't read the posters question like that. They were not saying LE lied. I think they were saying if LE smelled something suspicious like potential decomposition even without a source would that help LE get a search warrant more easily.

 

[cenazoic]

smell. So, yeah, technically I am not correct but I am also not incorrect.

Of course, fair enough! I thought I made that clear by specifying ‘chemically’ and saying ‘but not sure humans can tell the difference.” It was just something I read recently while researching the ‘odor of decomposition’ and thought interesting.

Didn’t mean to imply you were wrong for saying otherwise.

 

[LucyOso]

Of course, fair enough! I thought I made that clear by specifying ‘chemically’ and saying ‘but not sure humans can tell the difference.” It was just something I read recently while researching the ‘odor of decomposition’ and thought interesting.

Didn’t mean to imply you were wrong for saying otherwise.

I also was thinking I might have missed info on a dog hitting on a scent in the house LOL. So many posts...not hard to do! LOL

 

[Dhighsmith]

for helping the progress in this terrible search

DBM

 

[LucyOso]

Also! Thinking more about known things. On the 16th JF and JRF were on camera shopping on the base. (Per the recent news article.) In order to drive onto the base, did JF show identification that was approved? She must have. As she was walking around shopping with JRF and caught on camera, she was not hidden while JRF was on base.

(There have been conversations on here about whether this base requires ID checks at the gate. It does. It is an active training base for Marines, frequently practicing bombing. (My anxious dog has many opinions about these bombings lol.) There is a whole fake city built out there to resemble a middle eastern city for Marines to practice combat. It is not a chill small base you can just enter unnoticed.)

But, per our VI, four minutes after JF's last video was sent on the night of 7/21, JRF was seen driving onto the base without JF. It would be basically impossible for JF to have been removed from the car in those four minutes, without her having been found by now. (Tight time window. They were on the main street in 29 Palms, with lots of traffic, people, shops, etc. It's not a place where a person or body could be dumped without that person or body being noticed quickly. If not that night, definitely the next day.)

So JRF most likely had JF hidden as he drove onto the base on the night of the 21st. Why? Why did he hide her on that visit, when she had already been on the base previously, and was documented and recorded as such?

Are we sure the time stamps are correct on everything? Did she record the video earlier and then send it later? Also, if FJ left her passport at the trailer, would they even let her on base? Are there any CCTV of 29 Palms that were recovered? Is it possible she sent a video and messages that were recorded earlier while sitting in a bar or restaurant waiting on him? Did he do anything on base while there?

 

[vls12345]

Ime, getting on base without showing ID is easy enough if you are entering with an authorized person. That person is vouching for you.

Plus people working the gate may be a much lower rank and I wonder if that factors into who they question/require IDs of guests traveling with that person.

Imo and MOO.

 

[10ofRods]

BBM.I totally agree. Most treatment programs require a "sponsor", someone who supports you and in a way holds you accountable. Sobriety/rehab is only successful when self-initiated and self-driven. But people do require a peer or support person that is available to prevent relapse or to coach. Usually these sponsors or support people have successfully gone through their own programs. I know with AA you have a sponsorr...so guessing VA treatment programs are similar.

VA Treatment programs can vary a great deal from the A.A. model. I've worked at 5 different V.A. hospitals (but not in the last decade) and AA style programs were available at all of them - but there were definitely other models and I was actually involved in research about the effectiveness of each. Some people do not do well with AA at all; others do. We were trying to find out why and to triage better.

While it is true that individuals have to make a commitment to their own recovery, within the VA system there are huge incentives to be sober (the person is punished if they don't - as in the case of JRF, who would have faced possible prison time if he hadn't gotten that Veteran Court diversion program). In California, strict laws about DUI's and DL suspension are often very strong incentive (in AA lingo, the clients are told "you've hit bottom, you need help.") However, for many military types, it becomes a kind of quest for restored honor and personal accountability, once the ax comes down and sanctions have been applied. This is external incentive, IMO - and people are very different when it comes to how to motivate themselves to address their addiction(s).

In the non-AA models, people do not have sponsors. Instead, they employ a drug/alcohol counselor (we have this as a 2 year degree and a 4 year degree throughout California). One of my good friends is now a professor of Drug and Alcohol Studies at a place that has a Master's program. Employee services programs at most big businesses provide this as an option - and it works very well (instead of meeting up with another recovering addict, the person meets up with a trained professional, most of whom are not themselves addicts - but most, IME, have familial experience with addiction).

OTOH, my good friend who has been running a large addiction outpatient treatment program (while teaching grad level courses in ADS and Psychology) says she comes from a family that did not have addiction problems. In her first few years as a psychotherapist, it just really hit her that substance abuse was a *major* thing for many of her clients. So she went back to school and got a Master's in Addiction Studies (to go with her other graduate degrees). She uses CBT and DBT instead of the AA model, with modifications for addiction. So there's a continuum of available treatments - but I bet AA is one of the options (and it's free to end users, although if people have military insurance, they certainly could apply for other options).

Sometimes, a person needs to combine their recovery with psychiatric treatment for an underlying issue (biological treatment). The police reports on JRF are concerning and show a longterm and consistent pattern of encounter LE while inebriated (even if nothing was ultimately done to him within the criminal justice system).

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

Are we sure the time stamps are correct on everything? Did she record the video earlier and then send it later? Also, if FJ left her passport at the trailer, would they even let her on base? Are there any CCTV of 29 Palms that were recovered? Is it possible she sent a video and messages that were recorded earlier while sitting in a bar or restaurant waiting on him? Did he do anything on base while there?

To me, it looks like it's about 10 at night in that last video, given how dark the sky is, and the traffic pattern. It's typically a pretty busy road, but after 9 pm, it's quieter. They were coming back from somewhere, I imagine, and the lights of a city were a welcome sight. The sky would have been distinctly lighter to the west if it were 8 pm in mid-summer. So I think it has to be around 9 (or, as indicated by the timestamp on video, nearer to 10 pm). I'm sure by now LE has more records from the Base.

29 Palms is about 45 minutes away from where JFR lived - so if they were in fact near 29 Palms at 10 pm, they would have run their errand at the base, then had almost an hour to drive back to his place - I figure they would have gotten home closer to midnight.

IMO

 

[charminglane]

No restaurant, grocery, or convenience store witnesses of their interactions together have been documented that we know of.
There must be someone other than military checkpoint or DH that saw or interacted with JRF and FJ on their daily rounds.

 

[Dhighsmith]

I think those are screenshots from a security camera. Where risk of theft is high, it's reasonable to have cameras aimed inward.

JF may have been there alone and simply found ways to be busy....

To me, they're proof of life stills.

Jmo

There’s no reason for hate. By asking the questions and sharing opinions on possible theories it continues the discussion on JF and furthers the awareness of her case and the need to return her home, we should be united in that goal. Much love!

 

[Sundog]

I wonder if the statement that trailer's "door was open" mean that it was literally open or just unlocked, perhaps slightly ajar.

If Fang Jin had, indeed, left behind in the trailer several thousand dollars in cash, then they would have locked the door when they left. If it was found unlocked and/or open in some way (slightly ajar or otherwise), then a suspect would have surely taken the cash as cash would be hard to trace.

Do we know if Fang Jin actually had cash currency in that high amount? If so, I assume it was U.S. cash and that if there was fowl play at the trailer - or someone at some point entered the trailer while they were missing and knew they were missing and not ever returning, then I think the cash would have been taken.

IRRC, you can bring in $10,000 in cash when you enter the U.S. from outside of the country. So Fang Jin may have brought a few thousand dollars in cash with her since she was planning on staying for 2-3 months.

 

[Teche]

I am sure you know your experience.

But studies using actual mechanical detectors for decomp, vs. human sense of smell vs. canine detection all show different results. Some humans have very good senses of smell (mine is entirely average - as of course, is true of most people).

The chemistry of decomp is very well known. There are hand held detectors for the chemicals (each has a known chemical structure). There are *other* odors associated with death than just decomp (which, IIRC, consists of 2 main biochemicals and 4 others). There are odors associated with particular cancers. So, since you only have the one experience, you can't know for certain that it was decomp you smelled. It could have been early death byproducts.

Decomp is a very well studied process. In some conditions, people with an excellent sense of smell can smell it in 24 hours. That's unusual. The charts that one other poster and myself have been discussing are for AVERAGES over many, many instances of decomp. This is what the forensic literature says.

Heat and humidity (and presence of certain bacteria and insects) can speed it up. So, in this case, we know it was hot (but not humid). We do not know whether LE also noticed, say, insects inside the mobile home. We don't know whether the responding officer was a super smeller.

But I'm here to tell you that it's exceeding rare for cadaverine and putrescine to be sensed by any average human before 24 hours (but a mobile home with the door closed and windows closed and no A/C/ would be different - someone left the door open...probably to air it out?)

Responding officers noticed it on August 1. Most LE have experience of smelling cadaverine and putrescine. I got mine in anatomy lab (nothing could cover it up - even though the bodies we were dissecting were thoroughly soaked in formaldehyde - which, btw, is another substance that is quite strong to smell - and ALSO present at most deaths, along with Methanethiol - which is not the complete "decomp" smell."

So unless each of us has experience with actual decaying bodies, it's hard to say that we each know what decomp smells like. Death comes with many smells, but decomp is specific (IMO).

The average time at which these decomp chemicals are first sensed by humans is 24-48 hours but, if the death is more out of doors or the weather is cold and dry - 72 hours).

The responding officers smelled it. On August 1. Presumably, since the door was open, it had time to dissipate. But when did someone die in that mobile home??? If it had been a rodent caught in a trap, I do believe LE would have mentioned it. They apparently found no source for the smell.

Which indicates that someone died, started decomposing (so their body was there at a minimum of 12 hours - but more likely 24 hours - as it was hot, maybe longer). There is no body to autopsy, as it is impossible for JFR to have died in his mobile home AND to have driven his truck. Of course, someone could have killed him, left him in the mobile home, and then transported his body (with his truck) via Thermal and Julian, over the next 2 days. But the body had to have been in the trailer for at least 24 hours for the smell to still remain on August 1, IMO.

IME.

I love reading and learning from your posts.