CA - Five Ucar family members found dead in San Clemente home, 25 May 2008

[DeltaDawn]

I just wonder if they were poisoned and as they fell ill, they were encouraged to go lay down while help was *summoned*

JB, that's what I think may have happened with the grandmother and the daughters. The rest, a suicide pact between husband and wife..that just doesn't seem to match their personalities. She is very religious, always praying, he is a joyous happy outgoing person..that doesn't fit the mold of suicide to me..plus their age. A couple in their 50's would not normally think of suicide..you've already been through a lot..you know you can endure and make it by that age. No signs of either of them having an affair...it just doesn't add up.

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

I think, when they refer to the closet off the Master Bedroom it's not what most of us think as the standard closet, but rather a large walk-in/dressing room type.

Thanks for clearing that for me, Tom'sGirl. I was on my way back here to add some thoughts: seemed there was no apparent sign of a break-in: although unlikely, it's not impossible that someone arrived when the girls and grandma were at home ... and laid in wait for mom and dad to return. With no signs of struggles, perhaps the parents would have thought nothing was amiss untill too late?

Just felt the 2 - maybe 3 week lapse a wee bit unusual - would decomposition at that stage mean that suffocation (for example) might not be determined?

We all have (strike - most of us have) family skeletons; I know a rift in my family exists where 1 cousin does not talk to the rest at all. That's his or her problem: I guess I'm just trying to bend rules and remove the "box" altogether, let alone think outside of it.

We don't even know if the gun/s found with mom and dad include the murder/suicide weapon, although it's pretty likely. Perhaps LE are keeping up with the theme so as not to raise suspicions.

Nah ... I've stayed awake too long. It's 1:am in these parts ... PSA needs to go to bed ----> this has been a mightily deflated 2 cents worth.

Thanks again, Tom'sGirl. (lol, each time I see you sig I think of Katie H and that scrumptious little Suri-doll.... told you it's late!!)

Well, under the duvet as opposed to under the rock.

 

[Tom'sGirl]

PolkSaladAnnie;2259049]Thanks for clearing that for me, Tom'sGirl.

That was just a speculation on my part!

Tom'sGirl. (lol, each time I see you sig I think of Katie H and that scrumptious little Suri-d.

Yuk, although Suri is cute, I can't stand her dad

 

[Fermi]

From the Los Angeles Times article:

Tami Adams said the middle-aged woman who was found was a doctor.


So, the wife is a doctor as well as the husband?

Hi Nora,

Yes, Margrit was a doctor. From this link:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/ucar-family-authorities-2054034

"Manas Ucar, a consulting engineer and a former assistant professor at Syracuse University who came to the states in the 70s, proudly spoke of his daughters going to medical school. Their mother earned her medical degree from Turkey but could not practice in the states."

Such a sad, tragic end to a beautiful family

 

[i.b.nora]

Hi Nora,

Yes, Margrit was a doctor. From this link:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/ucar-family-authorities-2054034

Thank you, that's a really good article. - i.b.

 

[noZme]

I wondered, as has PSA, if the killer could be a family member who would stand to inherit.

And like DDawn, that one of the parents just lost control. From what I have read, the mother is my most likely candidate.

I too pictured a master suite or perhaps a mother-in-law suite as where the bodies were found. Putting together what was reported by several different sources, and the fact that it is an upscale residence, it seems they were found nearby but not in just one room with 4 walls.

Someone (a teacher?) reportly said the girls often wore black, and others said they dressed alike through high school. I believe in the lecture hall picture at their college
... post #s 85 and 87.... the girls... young women.... are pictured in the 2nd row , dressed differently. As you'll see, my argument is that I did things differently in college & maybe they did also. More info on the garments must be released before I can think there was a ceremonial type killing.

Adding to her loss of control .... daughters were about to graduate... may be what set Margrit off on the murderous rampage. Possibly she had sacrificed her own career for her husband's, thrown herself into the mother role.... it bugs me she ate lunch at school with daughters everyday?? .... and now she had lost purpose.

Anyway, that's how I lean at this point..... there is not enough information in the puclic domain for a real educated choice....... maybe it was Col Mustard.

 

[Tom'sGirl]

From these photos taken in 2005 (pubished at the OCregister) the twins dressed identical right down to their glasses and accessories​

 

[concernedperson]

Given how much they look like mom it is almost like little me's! Sorry if I offended anyone but something is odd with this case.

 

[Tom'sGirl]

Given how much they look like mom it is almost like little me's! Sorry if I offended anyone but something is odd with this case.

Nothing offensive cp, they even looked more like their mother when they changed their hair, sans the bangs.

 

[Snowlover77]

I have never heard of 20 year old twins dressing exactly alike the way these two did. That in my mind suggest they still were very much tied to their mom and/or dad's apron strings. Usually by that age twins crave to be their own person and want very much to be different from the other twin. But this family is Turkish and we don't know alot about their culture, etc. I am going to guess though that these young women were not able to separate themselves from one another...maybe because the culture didn't approve or something along those lines.
I feel like this a crime most likely comitted by the father and probably s.omewhere along the line investigators will find the murder suicide has to do with the Turkish culture. There is a big piece of the puzzle missing still...but it will be found out soon enough. Someone in that family decided that everyone had to die for some reason. The wealth this family had is troubling also. Makes your mind wonder.
It almost sounds like it was some sort of religous suicide amongst them all. For what reason, I don't know. But the dressed all in black seems to suggest a mourning of some sort.

 

[SuziQ]

http://www.sanclementetimes.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=1078&cntnt01dateformat=%25B%20%25d%2C%20%25Y&cntnt01returnid=99

(snip)
She said she had limited interaction with the family, only speaking to Manas. She said the Ucars’ windows were always closed, the shades were always pulled and she never heard arguments. “[You] don’t hear a lot here with the ocean breezes coming in and the street down there,” she said. When they did come in contact, she added, they were always very friendly. “[Manas] apologized for not getting to know us better and that now they were moving.”

Marnella noted that conversation took place about a year ago, but nothing changed—until the first of this month. “We noticed they were cleaning everything out, so we thought they were probably getting ready to move, but instead maybe they were getting ready for something else,” Marnella said with a pause and an understanding that she was referring to the reported murder-suicide. “They just put all kinds of stuff out there; truckloads of things were hauled away.

“That week they were cleaning up was the only time I saw into their [home], quite possibly their bedroom—supposedly where things happened. It just looked like they were cleaning up.” The timing, she said, lined up with the authorities’ time frame of when the family was last seen two to three weeks ago.

 

[JBean]

That is really interesting Suzi thank you for posting.

 

[Tom'sGirl]

http://www.sanclementetimes.com/ind...ntnt01dateformat=%B %d, %Y&cntnt01returnid=99

Thanks SQ, good article and it did mention the connection I had mentioned to Steve in a post that her never commented on.

 

[i.b.nora]

TG: That would be "A Diamond". How did you connect that to this family? You did it very early on, as I recall.

and, SuzyQ: Thanks for the article! This whole thing is just sort of stupefying. Very very curious.

 

[Tom'sGirl]

TG: That would be "A Diamond". How did you connect that to this family? You did it very early on, as I recall.

and, SuzyQ: Thanks for the article! This whole thing is just sort of stupefying. Very very curious.

I didn't want to type the actual first name of Armen at that time as it had not appeared in the Media, so typed it as A. Armen.

 

[philamena]

http://www.sanclementetimes.com/ind...ntnt01dateformat=%B %d, %Y&cntnt01returnid=99

(snip)
She said she had limited interaction with the family, only speaking to Manas. She said the Ucars’ windows were always closed, the shades were always pulled and she never heard arguments. “[You] don’t hear a lot here with the ocean breezes coming in and the street down there,” she said. When they did come in contact, she added, they were always very friendly. “[Manas] apologized for not getting to know us better and that now they were moving.”

Marnella noted that conversation took place about a year ago, but nothing changed—until the first of this month. “We noticed they were cleaning everything out, so we thought they were probably getting ready to move, but instead maybe they were getting ready for something else,” Marnella said with a pause and an understanding that she was referring to the reported murder-suicide. “They just put all kinds of stuff out there; truckloads of things were hauled away.

“That week they were cleaning up was the only time I saw into their [home], quite possibly their bedroom—supposedly where things happened. It just looked like they were cleaning up.” The timing, she said, lined up with the authorities’ time frame of when the family was last seen two to three weeks ago.

Earlier this month they hauled away truckloads of things???....:waitasec:
What happened in that house?
I agree, this case is strange.

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Lol, Tom'sGirl: Re T/C ... indeed ... but Suri is just the cutest babydoll

Hi nozme ... was just throwing a different angle out there as I agree with others. Something seems v strange notwithstanding the identical dressing/grooming and twin-accessory-style the twins followed. That's truly weird. Anything is possible these days. The "when & why dunnit" is as intriguing as the "who dunnit".

SuziQ as with others - v interesting article. Tks for sharing.

ITA - bizarre that they were all wearing black.

 

[SuziQ]

The family actions were certainly leading up to something.

And I have to weigh in on Suri. She's dang cute!

 

[concernedperson]

The family actions were certainly leading up to something.

And I have to weigh in on Suri. She's dang cute!

I agree and it seems so unified especially in light of all the cleaning up being done.

 

[texasgirl]

Posted by Danielle Johnson
May 29, 2008, 7:12 pm
I have been very disheartened by the ways in which newspapers, nationally and internationally, have been portraying Margaux, Grace, and the Ucar family. I went to school with both girls from kindergarten through high school, and shared many classes with them throughout the years. The twins were very close, very bright, and very sweet. In our childhood, I think the girls were labeled by many as "goody goodies," but because I fell into that category as well, I was able to spend a good deal of time with them assisting our teachers during our lunch breaks or playing handball on the playground. I remember that Margrit would often be at school to help teachers, or to take her daughters to lunch. Their grandmother was always accompanying Margrit, with a silk scarf tied around her head and a smile on her face. The girls were always very gifted academically, and I remember them sharing with me that they wanted to become playwrights in the 6th grade. They were already working on a script. As we grew older, they continued to excel in their studies, and very early on in high school they decided that they wanted to be doctors. It was also during high school that the girls got into high fashion, and I remember them always wearing their designer jeans and tops, and pulling their high-end wheeled backpacks. At 17 or 18 years of age, the girls were always dressed in black because of its popularity in the fashion world. Dressed in the same outfits, Margaux and Grace also sported fashions that were very mature for our age. I remember when I was a little girl thinking that their mother, Margrit, was always very well-dressed, and I think the girls probably began doing the same because of her. I never had the impression that the girls were overly private or strange. If anything, I think that immature children thought that their relationship as twins was so different that they were automatically labeled as dorky. It to me always seemed that the mother would eat lunch with them not because she was over-protective, but because other children had a hard time accepting the twins. Because I feel that I was better friends with them than most other children growing up, I can truthfully and sincerely say that the girls were more than willing to befriend me, whether by chatting or playing games. To say that their relationship seemed strange is ridiculous because they were identical twins after all, and I'm sure they had a bond that nobody can really understand. I even remember asking them when we were children whether they ever thought about exchanging places with one another to take an exam, but they always just laughed and said they wouldn't really do it. My heart breaks to think that my friends appear to have been tragically murdered. The media focus on the Ucars' private life or the fact that they were dressed in black taken out of context could be twisted to mean any number of things. I think the fact that they were an immigrant Turkish family would have made life in America difficult enough, and so it is understandable that they may have appeared more private. It seems as though the general public is demonizing the family as a foreign cult, when anyone who really knew the girls or the family would be very surprised that such loving and devoted people could be the central actors in such a gruesome story.

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