GUILTY CA - Gianni, 24, & Sal Belvedere, 22, Ilona Flint, 22, San Diego, 24 Dec 2013 - #3

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:kickcan: I wonder how surprised or shocked CM's family is that he is in such deep trouble. He might face the Death Penalty or Life in Prison. Did they see that side of him that fancied himself an assassin wantabe? Who'd he hang around with? Working for eight yrs. for the same company sounds like a fairly steady employee. (Payday, Payday, R.I.P, Payday)

Not that we can sleuth his family members, but I'm curious if both his parents are still alive, and how many brothers and sisters he has. Wonder who in that family was said to know someone in the brother's family.

:kickcan: Another wild thought I had was if he had a motorcycle accident in conjunction with needing to borrow a car, or take time off from work, etc., Then, the big question is where was Gianni's car during that time.

All good questions. Maybe it's the cynical side of me but I'm wondering what type of shop the estimate for motorcycle repairs came from too. Some of those places can make scuffed paint into a $10,000 repair depending on what they think they can get from your insurance IME. I wonder if it was damaged to the point of not driveable, or just really badly scratched up.

Didn't the woman who reported the car say it had been there awhile? I'll have to find it again but I remember being surprised that the car would've been there as long as it was without getting towed. That was the first time I thought the car probably wasn't abandoned right away.
 
Didn't mean to quote myself; tapatalk had a meltdown.



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I agree. A cigarette pack was found with a hat and cocaine baggies on the ground at the crime scene.

The cocaine remains a mystery. Sal, Gianni and Ilona DID NOT test positive for cocaine. The search warrant for Derek Padilla (coke dealer) was to determine if he was a murder suspect. There was no mention of an interview with Derek, like the other two dealers, who cooperated and confirmed their drug dealing relationships with Gianni. I imagine the focus with these two was to solve a triple murder, not their illegal drug activity, as neither was charged with a crime. Padilla was charged with drug sales and child endangerment, after an undercover buy sent him to county jail, with a scheduled release date next month, circumstances that probably led to his sealed lips.

It's unclear who the coke baggies belong to. I believe they were close to empty, with only trace amounts. Fingerprints are a reliable source for DNA, it seems the user's DNA would be discovered. Perhaps Ilona's co-worker, and she gave them to Ilona so her boyfriend wouldn't find them. Maybe Carlo dropped them, or intentionally left them to throw off investigators. I'm more inclined to believe Ilona tossed them before calling 911.

I hate even thinking about this, but... how quickly does cocaine get out of one's system? Is it possible that some/all of them had done cocaine but it was out of their systems by the time LE did the testing?

I tend to agree with you that I think Ilona probably threw the bags out of the car. I mean if Carlo was so careful to stop and pick up that one shell (casing? - sorry, I'm bad with ammo terminology) it seems odd that he'd just fling bags around that might have fingerprints on them. I'm not ruling it out, but seems more likely to me that she threw them out of the car.
 
Going back through some of Thread #1 and refreshing my memory. Remember Andre? Uncle Otto in Utah?
I found some interesting posts about the restaurant and who was managing it before it changed hands in
December 2013...it's interesting...see Post #523 and her prior posts.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...rdo-Belvedere-24-San-Diego-23-Dec-2013/page11


Crime Scene Photos of Car - See Post #669
Several clear pictures of the car at the mall and what looks like (big not baggies) plastic bags, etc., next to it.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...rdo-Belvedere-24-San-Diego-23-Dec-2013/page14
 
After catching up with this thread, I just wanted to clarify that I don't think they were buying weed everyday because no one does that, really. Yes, it is possible/probable she lied about what she was selling him.

This got me to thinking that it's possible that Gianni was looking to mitigate his drug costs by selling drugs himself. I could see what was meant to be a means to some extra money turn into a bigger operation then was intended, and that could ruffle some established feathers, but this is all moo anyway.


As an aside, I live in Canada, so I base what I say on what I know. I don't know how things work in California in terms of the drug trade, or the ease of getting a medicinal marijuana card.

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I did some research and will try to answer your question.

Getting a medical MMJ card in California requires you get a prescription from a doctor at a separate location, and not right at a dispensary. With a coupon from the advertising section of many free publications you can get a discount, thereby seeing a doctor for an annual prescription will probably cost you $29-$50. According to online dispensary sites I researched a gram of MJ can cost $10-20, and a whole ounce depending on quality would cost $240 to $350. Recently, according to the news, San Diego has limited the number of walk-in dispensaries, but there's also delivery services available.

There would not be a reason for Gianni to drive daily to Chula Vista just to buy weed in an illegal manner, and I doubt he was smoking that much weed, and think it was mainly heroin that he drove to CV for. Logically, that AN girl said she was selling him 4-5 grams for $100, and he could've bought that in a dispensary for $40-$65 legally.

All just my own opinion, of course.
 
I hate even thinking about this, but... how quickly does cocaine get out of one's system? Is it possible that some/all of them had done cocaine but it was out of their systems by the time LE did the testing?

3 days, same as meth, likely the pink powder found in Padilla's apartment. They are both stimulants and interchangeable if one is not available, but probably not a drug of choice for heroin users. Gianni had opiates, alcohol, morphine, codeine and Xanax in his body when he died, all sedatives.

For alcohol to be detected, I'd say he drank within 6 hours before his death.

I just noticed something . . . marijuana was not detected in Gianni's body. It's common knowledge cannabis stays in your system for 30 days if you're a regular user. Alina Nunu lied when she said Gianni bought $100 worth almost everyday, as disclosed in warrant #46063.

As disclosed in the prelim, Nunu was his heroin connection and he purchased 3-4 grams daily @$250/day. I don't know if "eight balls" qualify for a quantity discount like coke/meth, but the amount indicates Gianni was a small time dealer to fund his habit. Codeine and opiates were probably a maintenance measure to relieve discomfort associated with withdrawals.
 
I did some research and will try to answer your question.

Getting a medical MMJ card in California requires you get a prescription from a doctor at a separate location, and not right at a dispensary. With a coupon from the advertising section of many free publications you can get a discount, thereby seeing a doctor for an annual prescription will probably cost you $29-$50. According to online dispensary sites I researched a gram of MJ can cost $10-20, and a whole ounce depending on quality would cost $240 to - $350. Recently, according to the news, San Diego has limited the number of walk-in dispensaries, but there's also delivery services available.

There would not reason for Gianni to drive daily to Chula Vista just to buy weed in an illegal manner, and I doubt he was smoking that much weed, and think it was mainly heroin that he drove to CV for. Logically, that AN girl said she was selling him 4-5 grams for $100, and he could've bought that in a dispensary for $40-$65 legally.

All just my own opinion, of course.

This matches with what I've seen/heard too Curious Me. I live near Sacramento (Northern CA) and for awhile the doctors doing the prescribing were actually IN the dispensaries. When the law changed all these weird little strip malls cropped up where there was a dispensary, a small gap between buildings, and a "doctor" in an 'office' in the next building over (a parking space or two away). I don't even care about the pot use, but I always thought it was kind of funny watching how the various places worked around the laws as they changed.

Even if Sal/Gianni/Ilona were still getting used to the area I have no doubt if they were looking for MJ it would've been way easier to get it (or grow it for that matter) closer to where they lived.
 
If my boyfriend didn't pick me up on time from work (and he usually did--thankfully his brother showed up to pick me up in his dad's car), and I couldn't reach him on the phone...why, exactly, would I wait in the same location for 40 minutes trying to locate him by first calling hospitals and the county jail?

What exactly would I be worried about, and why would I preferentially call these locations?

<snip>

This point is important. Despite their fears, Ilona and Sal themselves must have felt relatively safe.

Interesting point.

As are the ones below that sort of connect.

<snip>

He obviously knew her, perhaps only to place Gianni at a known location to carry out his murder. Maybe "The Assassin" liked the rush and his shooting spree that took the lives of Ilona and Sal was unplanned. There's no way he'd have known they would remain in the mall parking lot like sitting ducks.

If Sal and Ilona thought Gianni might have been in trouble of some sort (obviously they didn't think he was out hanging out with friends or something...her calls were to jails and hospitals) and with him typically being the one picking her up, it is kind of surprising that they didn't drive through the parking lots or something at least, checking to see if they could find him while calling around.

I wonder if that spot in the parking lot wasn't just where they typically met Ilona to pick her up, but also somewhere that perhaps they used to meet their dealers. :waitasec:

Considering they'd come and pick her up (and nothing has indicated they typically would go in and meet her at the store and walk out with her or anything) why wouldn't they just pull up near wherever she exited the mall area from?

And why that spot in the lot to meet? They could have parked closer, even if it were typically crowded if she was leaving at a more 'normal' time.

Plus, considering that night was Christmas Eve, very little was open very late, and it wasn't crowded and people all over the place, why would they have had Ilona walking through a mostly empty and not particularly well lit lot alone?

Again, especially since they could easily have pulled up at a curb that was closer both mall egress wise and just pure distance wise at almost any time of day, and obviously certainly when it was very empty.

Thinking about that along with the point raised about them staying there in the lot for an extended time when they had concerns about Gianni really does make me wonder if that 'meeting point' was really primarily to meet suppliers at times, thus hanging out there trying to reach Gianni and/or figure out what was up, perhaps hoping he'd still come.

And it actually could make the whole thing about CM not just 'lucking out' that they stayed there in the lot for such a long time make sense.

Maybe there was a planned meeting with someone and thus he knew they'd stick around?
 
After giving this case some thought, I believe that the persons who killed Gianni had to get rid of Ilona and Sal because they would have known who Gianni's killers were.
 
Considering the time delay between Ilona leaving work (and being followed by CM) and them actually being killed, CM must have also been right there the entire time in order to then kill them (and be close enough to pull it off on the off chance they started to pull away)

But then it seems like surely either Ilona or Sal would have seen him. Heck, wouldn't Sal have seen him ambling out after Ilona? Plus them see him hanging around? It was awfully empty when she was leaving, it's not like he could blend in.

And there's also the issue that either they really were acquainted - to some extent (despite what we've been told) - or else this almost has to be a 'hit' doesn't it?

I mean, the odds of CM carrying out two separate murder incidents of 3 related parties who were in separate groups as a fluke seems almost impossible...he can't just have been randomly 'lucky' to pull that off when they weren't together.

And if only one was his target, why go to the effort to get the other(s) and kill them also?

It seems to me Gianni had to have been killed first (and have been the main target) otherwise CM was risking him showing up at the mall to pick up Ilona, unless he knew there was no way Gianni could show up and possibly throw a wrench in the whole thing.

Plus, it seems like Sal wouldn't have been a likely possible primary target because there was absolutely no way CM could have predicted it all playing out like it did (unless he knew Gianni were out of the picture) since it was, by all accounts in terms of that night, supposed to be Gianni picking up Ilona.

CM not only couldn't have anticipated Sal being the one picking her up (unless he knew Gianni was out of the equation) he also couldn't have guaranteed Sal would be the 'back up' that night so there's no way he could have planned to target him it doesn't seem, given the details we have ATM.

It could be that Ilona was the primary target and whoever was picking her up was perhaps more 'collateral damage' in it all - which does seem pretty possible since CM had actually been in the mall plus lingering where she worked for quite some time, and then obviously also approaching her to ask the location of the TK.

But again, then if Ilona was really the primary target that still doesn't explain hunting down whichever of the two brothers hadn't picked her up that night.

So it sure seems to come back to all three being targets for one reason or another.

I had another thought related to all this, but now my brain is entirely too 'thought out' at this hour to finish it. I'll have to wait!
 
Amazing I feel a little more caught up on the search warrants! Terribly sleuther I am! So after reading more on the warrants I have a few questions:

- On SW #46043 (page2) it states that GB the missing "at risk" person at that time was the registered owner of the vehicle the victims were seated in". It was GB's dad's car but registered to Gianni?

- After locking up at Cathy Jeans, Ilona's coworkers BF saw and unidentified male, light complexion, wearing "black sweater, tan pants, white tennis shoes. (No mention of stripes on the biceps anywhere in the description or cctv or curly hair?)

- AN drug supplier continues to deny any romantic relationship with GB. Why did she text him and ask if he was "ok"?

- Also from SW #46043 (page 4) the witnesses in the parking lot see an unidentified man, unknown race, light complexion, dark curly hair, with black sweater with white bands on biceps and tan pants. Why was there no mention of this through cctv and co-workers BF? What was GB wearing when found?

- Last but not least...who was the relative who introduce GB to Chance Fellers for the purpose of obtaining illegal substances?

I know these are still lingering questions for which no one has the answers but dang it I want to know!!! :rollercoaster:

I think the vehicle registration may have been a mistake. I believe that is the oldest warrant released (based on the numbering), and I didn't see that line in subsequent warrants.

Regarding AN, I think she was not forthcoming and knows more. She almost certainly lied to police about what she was supplying GB with, and I don't think it's a coincidence that her phone had been wiped/reset.

She said she met with GB the evening before the murders, for 20 mins (sometime between 6:00 and 7:00 PM) at a Red Lobster. I've never been to Red Lobster but I understand it's a sit-down restaurant so it's not likely they could get in and out in 20 mins (unless one of them was already there dining with other people, and the other stopped by to do a transaction?). Do Red Lobsters have a bar? GB did have alcohol in his system.

Did GB tell her something that prompted her to check to see if he was OK later? Was he nervous about something/someone? Did he tell her he was meeting up with CF later to get Xanax?

Speaking of CF, maybe the introduction was through GB's cousin, MD. GB supposedly met with CF to get pills around 11:00. GB called MD at 11:33 PM. Maybe it was to let him know how the transaction went?

I wonder if Sal knew what GB's plans were for that night. According to the warrants, their father said he saw both of them at home around 10:00 PM.
 
I think the vehicle registration may have been a mistake. I believe that is the oldest warrant released (based on the numbering), and I didn't see that line in subsequent warrants.

Regarding AN, I think she was not forthcoming and knows more. She almost certainly lied to police about what she was supplying GB with, and I don't think it's a coincidence that her phone had been wiped/reset.

She said she met with GB the evening before the murders, for 20 mins (sometime between 6:00 and 7:00 PM) at a Red Lobster. I've never been to Red Lobster but I understand it's a sit-down restaurant so it's not likely they could get in and out in 20 mins (unless one of them was already there dining with other people, and the other stopped by to do a transaction?). Do Red Lobsters have a bar? GB did have alcohol in his system.

Did GB tell her something that prompted her to check to see if he was OK later? Was he nervous about something/someone? Did he tell her he was meeting up with CF later to get Xanax?

Speaking of CF, maybe the introduction was through GB's cousin, MD. GB supposedly met with CF to get pills around 11:00. GB called MD at 11:33 PM. Maybe it was to let him know how the transaction went?

I wonder if Sal knew what GB's plans were for that night. According to the warrants, their father said he saw both of them at home around 10:00 PM.

Yes, Red Lobsters have a bar so it does seem reasonable that's where he and AN met and where the alcohol in his system came from.

I'm really curious about Ilona's phone records and when was the last time she actually spoke to Gianni, seems like she had to have known about the meeting with CF at 11:00 and Gianni being there to pick her up well before she got off work. When I asked before about why he wasn't answering her calls, I could have sworn I'd seen in one of the warrants something about it being hours (not just since 11:30ish) but when I annotated the phone numbers and owners of them in the warrants I couldn't find the same reference so I must have misremembered.
 
Didn't the woman who reported the car say it had been there awhile? I'll have to find it again but I remember being surprised that the car would've been there as long as it was without getting towed. That was the first time I thought the car probably wasn't abandoned right away.

The JIB worker said that the car had only been there for a couple of days. This report was conflicted by the "cat lady" who told a reporter that it had been there for a week to 1.5 weeks.
 
:floorlaugh: Oh, I thought you were demanding answers.

Hahaha! Imagine??
But, in all seriousness, I appreciate you finding out about obtaining a MMJ card and the prices in California.
Tbh, I'm surprised it's that expensive.

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I don't think these types of transactions are taking place IN restaurants such as Red Lobster but more so in the parking lots attached to these restaurants.
 
Along those same lines I wonder what players usually met in the parking lot of the Jack in the Box in Riverside to transact?
 
I don't think these types of transactions are taking place IN restaurants such as Red Lobster but more so in the parking lots attached to these restaurants.

Some of the best "dealers" are in the food/beverage business. A "customer" can pre-arrange the product with let's say a bartender. They come to the bar and order a drink or run a tab. When they pay, they "tip" very heavily. The "tip" goes into the "tip" jar. The "product" is then slipped into a cocktail napkin or box of matches and slid to the customer. No muss, no fuss. With this type of deal the "customer" can even pay with a credit card. The dealer does not expose their home location or any record of actually handing the customer the product. The same or similar scenario is true with restaurants, etc. A pizza place that delivers can even make deliveries.

JMO
 
Some of the best "dealers" are in the food/beverage business. A "customer" can pre-arrange the product with let's say a bartender. They come to the bar and order a drink or run a tab. When they pay, they "tip" very heavily. The "tip" goes into the "tip" jar. The "product" is then slipped into a cocktail napkin or box of matches and slid to the customer. No muss, no fuss. With this type of deal the "customer" can even pay with a credit card. The dealer does not expose their home location or any record of actually handing the customer the product. The same or similar scenario is true with restaurants, etc. A pizza place that delivers can even make deliveries.

JMO

There was a pizza place in Toronto that was recently closed down for this very thing.
Completely possible.


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I'm new here, and read through all of the comments yesterday. So far, in my opinion only, I think the fact that the car was found in Riverside with *UTAH* plates is a "signature," so-to-speak of the perpetrators. CM, *I think* was probably doing some type of gang initiation rite and more than likely didn't know any of the victims personally. I also think, in light of what was recently reported regarding drugs, etc. that SB and IF were waiting around for a drop-off, in the parking lot and that's why they didn't leave immediately. I also think the restaurant was a money-laundering operation, but that's based on the comments on Yelp, that it never seemed to be open.
 

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