CA - Girls set cat on fire, cat fighting for life. Santa Rosa, 2007

[southcitymom]

...As for the girls: I do hope they are made to take intensive counseling, that they serve time and at the very least, made to feel the humliation of getting caught. I do not think they should be made to work with animals, though... they are far too dangerous to be trusted on any aspect, around another animal. And I honestly don't think any of the posters here are truly serious about wanting the girls tortured or killed... their thoughts are just a knee-jerk reaction to such a hideous and cruel event. It happens. My knee-jerk reaction towards the girls was one of indepth hostility, too... I won't lie.

Thanks, Elphaba.

Yes - intensive counseling and jail time and NO working with animals, to be certain. Extra special attention should be paid to their past histories of violence. I am doubting that this incident is the first time.

 

[GlitchWizard]

Someone questioned why this cat is getting so much attention over other things: some of us hold animals to the same level of respect that we have for our fellow man, and when we see this kind of cruelty we hurt for the animal and want to see justice served and the animal to rebound. No innocent soul, be it human or cat, deserves to be treated in the manner this poor kitty was.

I understand that. The problem is this cat isn't getting the same attention as fellow man. $20,000 worth of surgery for the cat... but within a few miles of that kitten was probably a child who could use surgery, too, but won't get it. Or food. Or clothes. There was a murdered child in that neighborhood that didn't get that kind of attention and HOPEFULLY, the people who put down thousands of millions of animals a year in the shelters aren't also putting down thousands of millions of HUMANS as well...

I think the surgery would have best been spent on spaying and neutering in the area, not that the kitten deserved what happened to it, but what do you think happened to the littermates of the kitten? Probably they aren't getting the same attention and will end up in the pound.

I rescue animals, so I know where you are coming from. I'm just saying that I think they are a bit off kilter in how they're helping.

 

[Bee Happy]

I'm a little shocked at some of the comments about these girls.

I hope they are punished for what they've done. And I like the idea of forcing some type of community service, including working at a humane society (with supervision).

 

[docwho3]

Does everyone who agrees with this statement really feel this way? Or is it just something said in anger?. . .

I suspect it was something said in anger. I don't hold with torture and yet I see kids not being disciplined and just getting do-overs so much in life that they do not seem to have any reason to give them so much as a slight pause before going ahead with cruel acts.

Perhaps my own comment about caning was a bit too harsh but I think there needs to be a public humiliation and public punishment to the family and the children in some cases so the parents have a reason to actually parent the children and the children have some sort of pressure to not do certain kinds of bad things.

As it stands now no one seems to have any reason to even care about doing right.

 

[southcitymom]

I'm a little shocked at some of the comments about these girls.

I hope they are punished for what they've done. And I like the idea of forcing some type of community service, including working at a humane society (with supervision).

It's good to know I'm not the only one!

 

[norcalgirl03]

One of the articles that I posted mentioned that it is believed that the rest of the kittens/cats were not harmed in any way. IIRC, the forgotten felines website says something similar.

From today's Paper:
http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/article/20070720/NEWS/707200346/1033/NEWS01
A kitten that is believed to be one of Adam's siblings was found and caught Thursday afternoon in the back yard of a Papago Court residence, not far from where Adam was torched, according to Jennifer Kirchner, executive director of Forgotten Felines. Animal control officials investigating the case have said they believed Adam's siblings were set free and that they have found no evidence they were harmed. Kirchner said the discovery of a second kitten should allay some fears. "This should put to rest the fear that the other kittens were tortured," said Kirchner.

Adams' photo gallery (12 pictures total many of which are recent):
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/Gallery/template.cfm?GalleryID=204

Adam's Recovery Video:
http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/apps/...id=770169275&bclid=769393745&bctid=1111458181

 

[Olivia77]

I understand that. The problem is this cat isn't getting the same attention as fellow man. $20,000 worth of surgery for the cat... but within a few miles of that kitten was probably a child who could use surgery, too, but won't get it. Or food. Or clothes.

There's always someone worse off, something worse that happened in the area, or somewhere that 100 different people think the money SHOULD have gone to. It's that way with everything. Unfortunately, there are more than enough causes and charities to go around so that we can have our own personal cause. Fortunately, no one dictates which charities we should give our money to, or which causes we should feel most passionately about.

 

[NewMom2003]

I think these comments are made in anger. Yes, we are sickened and furious by this horrible crime, but I don't think for a minute that any one of us would want these girls intentionally set on fire while people stand around and laugh.

I do want them punished though and honestly I like the idea of the public caning.

 

[christine2448]

Who raises such children?????? Where does the cruelty come from??? I just don't understand how anyone can listen to such a small kitten shrieking in pain and laugh about it. I shudder to think these girls would someday become mothers.

Future serial killers or abusers...what the hell is going on in THEIR lives that this behavior is a result of?? I think when things like this happen the children's lives should be turned upside down, find the root of this.

 

[christine2448]

Agree with Lisa--There should be a punishment that fits the crime--too bad a judge can't order these girls to have their hands forced down on a burning stove, or maybe have someone use a branding iron on them--they'll never really learn their lesson otherwise

Sounds harsh, but I could not agree more..I can't even click on the link, don't think I'll read anymore of this thread! I am so sick of reading this stuff. There should be laws, they SHOULD have their hands burned, I believe it would deter others from such horrid acts. Same with molesters, 1 strick, your out! With all crime, you steal, you lose your hand, you rape, you lose your , you torture, you get tortured, and so on and so forth and not only the physical punishment but I think there should also be HARD time...it will never be this way, but it should.

 

[southcitymom]

Future serial killers or abusers...what the hell is going on in THEIR lives that this behavior is a result of?? I think when things like this happen the children's lives should be turned upside down, find the root of this.

Excellent post - and I feel the same way. What's happening in a 15-year-old's world that brings something like this about? It's just heartbreaking on so many levels.

 

[NewMom2003]

Future serial killers or abusers...what the hell is going on in THEIR lives that this behavior is a result of?? I think when things like this happen the children's lives should be turned upside down, find the root of this.

I agree with you. Someone needs to examine these girls lives to see if they have been abused.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I think these comments are made in anger. Yes, we are sickened and furious by this horrible crime, but I don't think for a minute that any one of us would want these girls intentionally set on fire while people stand around and laugh.

I do want them punished though and honestly I like the idea of the public caning.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[BOESP]

Excellent post - and I feel the same way. What's happening in a 15-year-old's world that brings something like this about? It's just heartbreaking on so many levels.

I know you don't or won't believe this but some people are born with a bend to being evil. Nothing can prevent it. It is the old nature vs nurture argument. Unless someone works with juveniles (or adults) in this situation, I don't think it can be comprehended that some people are just mean and some are truly evil. Counseling and therapy may make the public at large and the counselor think they are doing something to help but at age fifteen, forget it. These girls will likely grow up and continue their abuse toward children they have or are around.

Just call me jaded. I call it being realistic.

 

[norcalgirl03]

I lean towards the fact that these girls are a product of their environment. I find it interesting that even now, while this case is gaining national attention, the parents of the two girls have said nothing. There have been no statements made. No apologies for their daughters behavior or that they as the parents understand peoples outrage over the incident.

 

[FlowerChild]

1st these girls need to be in custody for at least a year - nothing but school and solitary confinement. Then I think these girls should have to empty bedpans in a burn ward - maybe seeing the pain of burns on a HUMAN will make them understand what that poor kitten has felt because of THEM. They ought to have to sit outside the debridement room every day and listen to the people scream in agony and then mop tho floors after each one of them....every free hour every day until they are 18.

Bob the Tortoise's torturer should go to prison for at least 5 years and THEN he should be forced to work at least 2 years in a hospital that treats veterans with missing limbs and shrapnel injuries - similar injuries to what Bob got at his hands. And be sure and TELL all the veterans there what this man did to a poor defenseless animal. Lets see if America's Finest can show this man what daily pain and suffering is all about!

The LAWS MUST BE CHANGED. Animals are not just something we own, like a car or a TV. Their value is PRICELESS and yet the law calls it a misdemeanor based on the monetary value of a replacement. Animal cruelty is a precursor to HUMAN cruelty and a sign that something is very wrong in the person's head - which either we must fix, or at least prepare to protect society and all living things against forever.

I think we ought to start building specialty prisons on sea platforms. It would take fewer guards and the ones that are needed could work instead keeping the prisoners busy doing something constructive for society. This way we can segregate certain offenders from others except those like them. We could have ones for animal torturers and killers, another one for pedophiles, another for drug addicts or alcoholics - with heavy duty counseling and treatment as a mandate for the entire sentence. Ahh--- Someday maybe we can figure out a way to require certain offenders to live forever in a restricted environment - one without children, or pets or drugs - and receive LIFETIME monitoring, treatment and supervision.

It is a good thing I didn't find these people before the police because I am afraid it would have been "temporary insanity" time for me. I do not thing I could stop myself. It makes me so angry it almost makes me physically ill. We just lost our beloved Sr cat to old age - she was 23 years old! A worthless (in the eyes of the law) pound kitty who we loved like a child. To think that in the eyes of the law a beloved companion of 23 YEARS has so little value that if someone had killed her or tortured her they would have gotten little more than a fine and a slap. I am afraid I would not wait on the law to punish someone who hurt one of MY pets.

We can do BETTER! We must do BETTER! All living creatures are THAT important. The way we treat animals eventually will be the way we treat our fellow man.

My Opinion, Really

 

[BOESP]

1st these girls need to be in custody for at least a year - nothing but school and solitary confinement. Then I think these girls should have to empty bedpans in a burn ward - maybe seeing the pain of burns on a HUMAN will make them understand what that poor kitten has felt because of THEM. They ought to have to sit outside the debridement room every day and listen to the people scream in agony and then mop tho floors after each one of them....every free hour every day until they are 18.

Bob the Tortoise's torturer should go to prison for at least 5 years and THEN he should be forced to work at least 2 years in a hospital that treats veterans with missing limbs and shrapnel injuries - similar injuries to what Bob got at his hands. And be sure and TELL all the veterans there what this man did to a poor defenseless animal. Lets see if America's Finest can show this man what daily pain and suffering is all about!

The LAWS MUST BE CHANGED. Animals are not just something we own, like a car or a TV. Their value is PRICELESS and yet the law calls it a misdemeanor based on the monetary value of a replacement. Animal cruelty is a precursor to HUMAN cruelty and a sign that something is very wrong in the person's head - which either we must fix, or at least prepare to protect society and all living things against forever.

I think we ought to start building specialty prisons on sea platforms. It would take fewer guards and the ones that are needed could work instead keeping the prisoners busy doing something constructive for society. This way we can segregate certain offenders from others except those like them. We could have ones for animal torturers and killers, another one for pedophiles, another for drug addicts or alcoholics - with heavy duty counseling and treatment as a mandate for the entire sentence. Ahh--- Someday maybe we can figure out a way to require certain offenders to live forever in a restricted environment - one without children, or pets or drugs - and receive LIFETIME monitoring, treatment and supervision.

It is a good thing I didn't find these people before the police because I am afraid it would have been "temporary insanity" time for me. I do not thing I could stop myself. It makes me so angry it almost makes me physically ill. We just lost our beloved Sr cat to old age - she was 23 years old! A worthless (in the eyes of the law) pound kitty who we loved like a child. To think that in the eyes of the law a beloved companion of 23 YEARS has so little value that if someone had killed her or tortured her they would have gotten little more than a fine and a slap. I am afraid I would not wait on the law to punish someone who hurt one of MY pets.

We can do BETTER! We must do BETTER! All living creatures are THAT important. The way we treat animals eventually will be the way we treat our fellow man.

My Opinion, Really

I heartily agree on all points and your suggestions for community service in the burn unit for these two teenagers is excellent and that fellow who mutilated that poor turtle .... :furious::furious::furious::furious::furious:

 

[southcitymom]

I know you don't or won't believe this but some people are born with a bend to being evil. Nothing can prevent it. It is the old nature vs nurture argument. Unless someone works with juveniles (or adults) in this situation, I don't think it can be comprehended that some people are just mean and some are truly evil. Counseling and therapy may make the public at large and the counselor think they are doing something to help but at age fifteen, forget it. These girls will likely grow up and continue their abuse toward children they have or are around.

Just call me jaded. I call it being realistic.

BOESP,

You don't know me as well as you thought! I do believe absolutely that we are all born with certain predispositions - towards good, towards evil and usually some of each is mixed into everyone of us. I don't think it's jaded to feel this way.

I do also believe that our environment - how we are regularly treated once we make it here - can and does play an important role in how we "deal" with what we innately come here with.

Nature and nurture are both important, imho.

That said, I have boundless hope for all humans - even the "worst" of us - and am incapable of writing anyone off. This doesn't mean I think dangerous people should roam free among us. This doesn't mean I think a few sessions of counseling can magically make people start using their powers for good and not evil. I may wear rose-colored glasses, but the head I wear them on is that of a realist.

Will these girls be able to turn themselves around in this lifetime and become loving, productive members of society? I believe the odds are against them - because of them and because of our society. But is there a chance that they could change - absolutely. I see miracles happen every day - I just don't have the prescience to know where they will happen next.

Eventually, these girls will get it, but I may never see that and I'm okay with that.

What to do with them in the meantime? We do the best we can - to keep society safe from their worst aspects and to help them outgrow their worst aspects. We balance out those two goals with the resources with have.

If I were in charge of punishment and rehabilitation, I definitely have an idea of how I would structure things, but I am on my way out the door for a date with my husband who is leaving the country for 3 weeks tomorrow....maybe I'll return to such weighty topics later!

 

[bnhall]

1st these girls need to be in custody for at least a year - nothing but school and solitary confinement. Then I think these girls should have to empty bedpans in a burn ward - maybe seeing the pain of burns on a HUMAN will make them understand what that poor kitten has felt because of THEM. They ought to have to sit outside the debridement room every day and listen to the people scream in agony and then mop tho floors after each one of them....every free hour every day until they are 18.

I think that is a fantastic idea. That would be the best way to teach them empathy and maybe keep them from ever doing something similar.

 

[panthera]

I know that now about you and evelyn have made that clear for yourselves - but I didn't before. I see people all the time post in what seems to be downright sincerity that they could and would do these horrible things.

I figured it was anger and venting, but believe me when I say I was confused enough to ask the question.

And for all I know, someone may still come along and say "heck yeah - I could do these things because they deserve it."

But you are probably right that the vast majority of the time, people don't mean it when they post these things and this is just a safe place to vent.

My passion for animals sometimes is greater than for other people since animals (like little Adam) are so totally defenseless ~ like small children are. So forgive me for venting my anger toward these two :furious: teenage girls. Actually I personally wouldn't do anything to them, but I do wonder how they'd like it if the same thing was done to them as they did to the little kitten. I do think that the punishment that the law allows isn't enough though for such a horrendous crime and I'm also thinking of their mentality and who is going to be their next victim.