CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #5

[deugirtni]

Admittedly I haven't read all of the posts here, but I had not realized that there was a 4th sibling, the oldest one, 'Dontay', in Devonte's family.

In 2008, Jennifer and Sarah Hart, who had previously adopted three different biological siblings in Texas, moved to adopt Devonte, Jeremiah and Sierra.
Celestine said the women had no interest in Dontay, the eldest, because he'd been acting out. Now 21, he's in prison for robbery, his mother's boyfriend says. He doesn't know about the crash.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...sf/2018/04/devonte_hart_family_crash_its.html

 

[Sleuth99]

Speaking only for myself, I certainly don't sympathize with Jen and Sarah.

I don't empathize with them, either. FWIW. Jen drove off a cliff. She murdered these kids, unquestionably. IDK if Sarah was complicit, or not. But I don't think Jen sat around and plotted to abuse and kill the kids for days, weeks, months, or years on end. At the end, I think it was an impulsive decision to drive off the cliff, probably made not longer than seconds to hours before.

I RECOGNIZE that Jen and Sarah's actions demonstrate 2 people who were in waaayyyy over their heads, who had little to no ability to effectively parent and cope with the challenges that adopting these 6 very troubled kids presented. That's my realistic interpretation of what I've read and concluded.

I'm angry that they were not self aware and mature enough to realize they couldn't parent these kids without *A LOT* of outside professional help.

I'm angry that they took the kids and drove off a cliff, instead of relinquishing the kids to foster care while they evaluated how to proceed.

I'm angry that they had a savior complex.

I'm angry that they exploited the kids at every opportunity.

I'm angry that their actions give adopted kids and adoptive parents a bad image.

I'm really angry that they chose to kill the kids, presumably to save face.

Don't forget that they had power to accomplish this. That's what we need to dismantle in order to protect other children.


IMO

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I wonder if all of the kids received punishment/blame for CPS coming to the door in regard to the food issue.. because Devonte was said to be collecting boxes of it for all of them, not just himself. Hate to say it, but almost seems like the 'trip' was the punishment to all.

Also, maybe the picture just doesn't show enough, but in the photo which shows Jennifer purchasing food while in CA before the event, there are only a limited number of bananas showing. If there were 8 people in the family, it seems like very little, and only less than 8 bananas.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2018/04/devonte_hart_family_crash_dece.html

Looks like maybe 6 bananas there. Two get divided into thirds for the six children, and each mom gets 2 bananas. Simple!

 

[K_Z]

I feel that this post sets aside race, class, privilege, historical injustices, and more.

"Far too much willingness by adoption authorities to let them adopt..." internalized and interpersonal oppression exists...

This was not dysfunction that arose through difficult parenting. This was dormant evil that had an opportunity to shine under more opportune circumstances due to the failing systems and attitudes present in today's world. These children were younger and of minority children/nonwhite background.

I think "Lee" was sent away because they had other intentions in mind. Behavior like this doesn't come out of the blue or from frustration. I don't think it's necessary to look for ways to demonize them because they left a trail... and the more we learn the more we can see that it's all fitting together.


IMO

I disagree with almost everything in this post.

I think it is entirely possible for successful, loving transracial adoptions, and I think MANY successful, loving, competent transracial adoptions exist-- and many more will occur.

I also think it's possible for a gay couple to successfully parent adopted kid/s of many different backgrounds, IF the couple is otherwise very mentally healthy, and psychosocially competent, AND willing to seek and accept professional help with parenting kids from difficult backgrounds.

I'm not ignoring racial aspects, but I don't ascribe "all" the problems with parenting that occurred here to some nebulous ideas about systemic racism and perpetual victimization of AAs in America. Culture matters-- it's how one chooses to acknowledge and incorporate culture and ethnicity that makes culture and ethnicity healthy, or dysfunctional. Ascribing to a perception of "perpetual victimization" can never be a healthy approach, IMO, nor produce healthy adults. Perpetual victimization is toxic when it is a lifestyle mentality, and can never lead to self actualized adults.

But I do recognize that there are many who view all transracial adoptions thru only a victimized racial lens. I just believe that viewing every transracial adoption as a symptom or expression of toxic race relations throughout history is an fringy extremist, unrealistic perspective.

People can acknowledge and understand their own difficult background, and ALSO grow up healthy and productive, moving towards self actualization. No one is ever a perpetual victim unless they decide to live that way.

 

[ilovepierre]

The only situations where people sympathize with a parent who has murdered their child involve either adopted children or children who are labeled special needs.

I don't sympathize with any parent who murders a child.
IMO

 

[Sleuth99]

Admittedly I haven't read all of the posts here, but I had not realized that there was a 4th sibling, the oldest one, 'Dontay', in Devonte's family.



http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...sf/2018/04/devonte_hart_family_crash_its.html

Acting out means not acting according to their standards... doesn't necessarily mean misbehaving. Him being in prison for robbery doesn't have anything to do with this situation. Sleezy journalism. And the fact that they would leave one child behind shows to me that they were SHOPPING and had a list of wants and needs including younger children.



IMO

 

[HeidiTX232]

I have to say. I don't know about anyone else here, maybe this is no big deal - but for me, the similarities between myself and the Hart women are chilling.

This is how I felt at first. As an adoptive mom of kids "from hard places," I know how much that doing this long term can really change who you are, what you do, etc. There is positive, of course, but negative also. So what I saw at first was some moms who struggled, made poor choices, and then it escalated out of control. At first, I think I was more worried that this could be me!

But in time, of course, I saw that they had a pattern suggestive of real issues themselves. There is no evidence so far to suggest they chose to seek good help for the children or themselves; and there is evidence to suggest why they wouldn't. And the fact that they truly *did* abuse the kids, at least sometimes AND then murdered them, of course, separates them even moreso. I can name a LOT of things I would do so that those things would not happen!

I still think that this board tends to over-analyze. I think there is a lot of generalization. I think a lot of that is normal enough. People want to separate themselves from evil as much as possible. But I don't think it helps the Hart kids. And it could cause further issues for other families, especially adoptive or homeschooling or ones with behaviors or whatever because there is a tendency to suspect us all.

I've tried to share experiences to bring some "rounding out" to the table. It doesn't mean that I excuse the Hart women in the least. I do not!

Digitaldevolution, I think you made wise decisions based on your understanding of yourself. That is to be commended. There are many other ways to help. And I hope others who are overwhelmed make the choice to get help. I would be happy to help people find resources online and in their locales if they want to private message me. I'm so thankful for those who have helped my children, my family, and myself!

 

[Swirlz]

Lots of people can be driven to murder by lots of things and we're fine with the idea of putting them away and letting prison shrinks deal with their problems. Men are driven to murder all the time by spouses who cheat on them or have the gall to, you know, have friends and jobs and goals. They really are truly distressed by this and yet it is not a good enough reason to kill. How many rounds have gone about apologists for those murderers. We quickly identify people as misogynists when they hint at the idea that someone who has murdered a woman might have had a right to that kind of rage. Why do we do it here? Come on. We know this story. Here it's applied to an even more vulnerable group. Are there people more vulnerable than children who can't run away?

If we want a poster child for NEEDS MORE UNDERSTANDING there is bound to be someone in all our home towns who is not covered in her child's blood but instead is wearing yoga pants and a holey tee shirt and hasn't had a night out in five years.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Speaking only for myself, I certainly don't sympathize with Jen and Sarah.

I don't empathize with them, either. FWIW. Jen drove off a cliff. She murdered these kids, unquestionably. IDK if Sarah was complicit, or not. But I don't think Jen sat around and plotted to abuse and kill the kids for days, weeks, months, or years on end. At the end, I think it was an impulsive decision to drive off the cliff, probably made not longer than seconds to hours before.

I RECOGNIZE that Jen and Sarah's actions demonstrate 2 people who were in waaayyyy over their heads, who had little to no ability to effectively parent and cope with the challenges that adopting these 6 very troubled kids presented. That's my realistic interpretation of what I've read and concluded.

I'm angry that they were not self aware and mature enough to realize they couldn't parent these kids without *A LOT* of outside professional help.

I'm angry that they took the kids and drove off a cliff, instead of relinquishing the kids to foster care while they evaluated how to proceed.

I'm angry that they had a savior complex.

I'm angry that they exploited the kids at every opportunity.

I'm angry that their actions give adopted kids and adoptive parents a bad image.

I'm really angry that they chose to kill the kids, presumably to save face.

I'm also angry that their bio mom wasn't able to parent them, or they would still be alive today and we wouldn't be reading about this horrible tragedy and posting about it here. That's basically where the "blame" should lie, right there at the beginning...

 

[HeidiTX232]

<modsnip>

And Jen explains here why Markis may not be in many of the pictures we see. Now, it could have been planned that way; but I kinda think not. I have a child whose pictures make them look forlorn, sullen, miserable much of the time. It was so hard to get a good picture! And I have fewer pics of that child (though still a lot). The pics I got from a former foster parent were often of that child crying or uninterested or whatever. That child has been through so much. Why force the issue? And where Markis' siblings seem happy to smile beautifully for the camera much of the time, this may be a time Jen really was a half-decent parent, letting the child be, rather than forcing him to be uncomfortable.

 

[HeidiTX232]

Our family is similar as well, vegetarians, transracially adoptive, festival goers, fost/adopt etc. I feel so heart broken for these beautiful children and (I know this will get me in hot water) also heartbroken for mothers who felt a cliff dive was their only recourse. And personally I feel this case has given people an example to use when stating that many of the things our family is...is wrong...and "here's why". Somehow it all feels very personal...

You stated this soooo much better than I did.

 

[Sleuth99]

I disagree with almost everything in this post.

I think it is entirely possible for successful, loving transracial adoptions, and I think MANY successful, loving, competent transracial adoptions exist-- and many more will occur.

I also think it's possible for a gay couple to successfully parent adopted kid/s of many different backgrounds, IF the couple is otherwise very mentally healthy, and psychosocially competent, AND willing to seek and accept professional help with parenting kids from difficult backgrounds.

I'm not ignoring racial aspects, but I don't ascribe "all" the problems with parenting that occurred here to some nebulous ideas about systemic racism and perpetual victimization of AAs in America. Culture matters-- it's how one chooses to acknowledge and incorporate culture and ethnicity that makes culture and ethnicity healthy, or dysfunctional. Ascribing to a perception of "perpetual victimization" can never be a healthy approach, IMO, nor produce healthy adults. Perpetual victimization is toxic when it is a lifestyle mentality, and can never lead to self actualized adults.

But I do recognize that there are many who view all transracial adoptions thru only a victimized racial lens. I just believe that viewing every transracial adoption as a symptom or expression of toxic race relations throughout history is an fringy extremist, unrealistic perspective.

People can acknowledge and understand their own difficult background, and ALSO grow up healthy and productive, moving towards self actualization. No one is ever a perpetual victim unless they decide to live that way.

Of course you'd disagree. You missed my point completely.

My comment wasn't against any type of parent due to their identity or choice of the identity of their adopted children. As long as they're healthy minded loving and nurture the whole child they are on the path to success.

I am speaking of the power accessed and used through these institutionalized systems that aided them in manipulating the situation for their own good and reducing the amount of agency that the children (who are of non/white) background have. I'm discussing the power dynamics and processes which led them to be able to dodge accountability across states and convince people nearby, some people who witnessed signs of abuse to "play it out" or leave it alone or hope that they're defer to their educational training.

Black** people do face systemic racism. Not all Black people in America are African American. We don't know the cultural roots of this family but that's another conversation.

I think it's quite interesting that you label what I'm trying to discuss as "perpetual victimization." I'm only referencing the instances that have gone on and you seem reluctant to look at a single instance and examine how the things I mentioned may have played a MAJOR role in this situation.

Ignoring these issues will not make them go away. Instead it may leave you perplexed and wondering how this could have happened when the answers are right there for you to examine.




IMO

 

[Mariposa]

Regarding “Lee”’s experience, I will defend some of the Hart’s choices. Keeping her busy with school and a job isn’t unreasonable to me. They could have allowed her to have friends come to the home to have loosely-supervised hang-out time. I think it was a great idea for Lee to have a job at Subway.

And it does sound as if she enjoyed the camping and other experiences they gave her. There were a few troubling things Lee reported (the football incident), but it doesn’t sound as if she had been abused, and even she says that.

i agree. I read "Lee"'s account to be pretty fair minded. Balanced. IMO she neither demonized nor sugar coated the Harts. I bet the reporter asked her if the Harts isolated her, etc and that is where the parts about that came from. She doesn't seem to have an agenda or an axe to grind. As the only child to survive being parented by the Harts, she has a valuable perspective to share.

 

[K_Z]

Don't forget that they had power to accomplish this. That's what we need to dismantle in order to protect other children.


IMO

I don't know exactly what we can "dismantle". We have no orphanage system. The foster care system varies tremendously by quality of foster parents, and geographically.

We have more and more kids entering the system every year, with ever more burdensome regulation imposed that grinds the system to a halt in many parental rights termination cases, and presents cracks and incentives to hurry up and provide permanence and close cases for kids in foster care.

The system is too large to be dismantled, and there are far too few quality foster parents and prospective adoptive parents. No one wants to re-start an orphanage system in this country.

So what DO we do? Encourage "some" women not to have kids? Do we insist that people only adopt racially similar kids?? Leave "certain" kids to languish in foster care? Why, that would be racist, classist, and bigoted, right? Haven't we been there before, and have now *evolved* in our thinking?

The system, IMO, isn't fixable. Not on a large scale. We could do some bandaid things like limit adoptions of older kids out of foster care to 1 or 2 per person/ couple. We could eliminate post adoption subsidies as incentives for domestic adoptions, to make it harder (international adoptions do not receive ANY subsidies-- they must prove financial ability to care for the child before the adoption is competed.) But how would that help sibling groups, who would certainly be broken up? How would that clear out the backlog of kids who need permanence? It would only make the problem worse, IMO.

I'm open to suggestions that might actually work. Kinship care is always considered, but is not always a good option. Often not a good option.

What are your suggestions? What do we do with older kids, and sibling groups, who are hard to place? How do we make sure they're okay long term? How do we properly evaluate prospective adoptive parents differently than we do now?

 

[KaaBoom]

Timeline.

March 2004: Earliest known public record that shows Jennifer Hart and Sarah Gengler, both from South Dakota, residing in Alexandria, Minnesota.

May 2005: Sarah Hart petitions to change her last name from Gengler to Hart.

September 2006: Jennifer and Sarah Hart adopt siblings Markis, Abigail and Hannah.

September 2008: According to a police report from Alexandria, Minnesota, Hannah, then 6, tells authorities that one of her mothers bruised her with a belt. Asked about the beating, Jennifer and Sarah Hart tell a police investigator and social worker the girl had fallen down the stairs.

February 2009: Jennifer and Sarah adopt Devonte and two of his siblings &#8212; bringing their number of children to six. An article from Paper Trail, a New Zealand-based news outlet, describes his adoption. The article said by age 4, the boy had been abused, neglected, shot at and had endured other traumas.

November 2010: Police in Alexandria, Minnesota interview Abigail Hart, 6 at the time, after a teacher discovers bruises stretching from her sternum to her navel. The girl says Jennifer Hart hit her with a closed fist, put her head in a cold bath, then hit her again, court records show. She was then grounded, the girl told police, which meant she had to stay in bed and miss lunch.

December 2010: Alexandria, MN home listed for sale.

April 2011: Sarah Hart pleads guilty to abusing Abigail Hart and is sentenced to a year of probation for misdemeanor domestic assault, court records show. Sarah told police she was the one who hit Abigail, even though the girl told authorities her mother Jennifer had done it. The next day, all six of the Hart children are taken out of public schools. They never attend public school again.

October 2011: The family lives in Alexandria, Minnesota, for a time and takes part in local activism. Hart family members including Devonte and Jennifer Hart participate in an Occupy Minneapolis demonstration.

2012: According to friends in Oregon, Sarah Hart travels to Portland to look for work. Jennifer Hart and their children later join her. Hannah loses front teeth after allegedly falling in house acceding to Jen's FB post.

August 2012: Alexandria MN house re-listed for sale.

October 2012: Sarah begins work at Kohls in Oregon (Sarah's LinkedIn resume).

December 2012: Jen and kids travel to Oregon, getting a ride with the Lees after rollover accident in Missoula According to Statesman Journal article.

April 2013- Alexandria, MN house sold. The family moves to West Linn, family friend Alexandra Argyropoulos tells Oregon child welfare officials that the Hart parents have been depriving their kids of food as punishment, she says. The Harts break off contact with her when they learn of it. Argyropoulos says she was told the Hart children had been interviewed by Oregon officials; it was apparent that each child had been coached by their mothers on what to say; and nothing more could be done by the Oregon Department of Human Services.

July 2013: The police department responds to a call to the Hart's house.

November 2014: Family members participate in a Portland protest of a Missouri grand jury declining to indict a Ferguson police officer in the fatal shooting of Michael Brown. Devonte and a Portland police officer hug, and the photo of the moment goes viral.

March 2016: Family members join U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont onstage during a presidential campaign rally in Vancouver.

May 2017: Jennifer and Sarah Hart buy a two-story, 3-bedroom home on 2 acres of land in the Woodland area of Clark County, Washington, property records show.

June 2017: Jen's rough year FB post.

March 23, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services opens a Child Protective Services investigation in which the Hart children are "identified as potential victims of alleged abuse or neglect."

March 23, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services attempts without success to make contact with the Hart family.

March 24, 2018 - 3:00 AM: Sarah Hart sends a middle-of-the-night text message to friend Cheryl Hart, only hours after child protective services first visited the family's home, saying she was so sick she might have to go to the hospital. The friend never made contact again.

March 24, 2018 - 8:14 AM: The family is in or around Newport, Oregon, police say. It's believed they continue south on Route 101 until they reach State Route 1 in Leggett, California.

March 24, 2018 - 8:00 PM The Harts travel south on State Route 1 until they reach the Fort Bragg area in Mendocino.

March 25, 2018 - 9:00 PM: The family leaves Fort Bragg.

March 26, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services again unsuccessfully attempts to make contact with the Hart family. They call 911 and ask the Sheriff's Department to do a welfare check on the family.

March 26, 2018 - 1:15 PM: Cheryl Hart calls 911 and asked the Sheriff's Department to do a welfare check on Sarah Hart. "Nobody has been able to get ahold of her, talk to her or seen her since," she told the dispatcher.

March 26, 2018: A passer-by along Highway 1 in Westport, California, calls 911 after looking down a 100-foot embankment and seeing an SUV upside down on the rocky shoreline. Five people are found dead: three children outside the SUV and two women inside.

March 27, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services makes a third unsuccessful attempt to contact the Hart family.

March 28, 2018: The women are identified by the Mendocino County's Sheriff's Office as Jennifer and Sarah Hart and their children as Markis, Jeremiah and Abigail. Three of their other children: Devonte, Hannah and Sierra, remain missing. Sheriff Tom Allman said a search is ongoing for the remaining three children.

March 29, 2018: Police continue to search for the three missing children, including Devonte, and to investigate why the SUV plunged off the California cliff. Authorities don't know if the kids were also in the car, but are basing their search on the assumption that they were thrown from the car into the cliffs or the surf.

March 31, 2018: Officials reveal the speedometer on the Harts' wrecked SUV was "pinned" at 90 mph.

April 2, 2018: Officials say the crash may have been intentional, saying data taken from the family's SUV shows the vehicle came to a complete stop at the Route 1 pullout before speeding off the cliff. The search for the missing children becomes a "recovery effort."

April 2, 2018: "I'm to the point where I'm no longer calling this an accident, I'm calling it a crime," Mendocino County Sheriff Tom Allman tells HLN's Ashleigh Banfield.

April 7, 2018: An unidentified body, believed to be that of a black female, is found in the ocean near the site of the crash. Officials said an identification could take weeks

 

[HeidiTX232]

And the fact that they would leave one child behind shows to me that they were SHOPPING and had a list of wants and needs including younger children.

That is just not how it works....at all. Not even close.
It takes soooo much to separate siblings. And there are checks and balance systems in place in order to do so. But I could tell you horror stories of kids that should have been separated and it happened too late or not at all. And kids who could have gotten homes when they were younger, languished in foster care, often with a LOT of placements, instead.

 

[Mariposa]

One aspect I keep thinking of is that wow these women were so young to take on adopting so many kids. If my math is right they basically adopted two sets of three sibs from a faraway state before they were 30. They apparently started the process as early as 2004 (per foster child 'Lee''s account) when they were apparently just a few years out from meeting in college in South Dakota.

Not that 20somethings can't be great parents but...Those who are knowledgable about adoption wouldn't being so young be a strike against you? Or are those willing to adopt sib groups so few and far between that the authorities can't filter out prospective parents by age, experience, stability.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Regarding “Lee”’s experience, I will defend some of the Hart’s choices. Keeping her busy with school and a job isn’t unreasonable to me. They could have allowed her to have friends come to the home to have loosely-supervised hang-out time. I think it was a great idea for Lee to have a job at Subway.

And it does sound as if she enjoyed the camping and other experiences they gave her. There were a few troubling things Lee reported (the football incident), but it doesn’t sound as if she had been abused, and even she says that.

Jumping off your 'points well taken' post Starkville with some thoughts.

The things that stand out to me from Lee's time period with the Harts:

The twisted hacksaw incident with the mannequins. Lee didn't mention it but that it happened during this time period with a young woman in their care could be indicative of Jens's unresolved feelings about being a teenager? Maybe the make over thing was some kind of reenactment of something she, herself endured?

The emotional cut off after the football signing incident.

The garbage eating claims, if false, (which I believe it is) provides a window into their (the harts) cookie cutter claims about their adopted children later on.

The isolation: while it may prove wise trying to keep a foster teen separated from her previous influences, and possibly drugs, I wonder why they didn't open their home as a host to outside friendships. This also seems consistent with no visable outside peer friendships with all of their adopted kids.

And the utterly shattering cut off with no goodbye, no best wishes, by these two women for this teen to be leveled by a therapist. This, after the Harts were gone for a week in TX, and obvi planned and moved out all of Lee's belongings.

This teen was with them for what, eight months? That they made no effort to reassure her their decision was about them not her is, to me, about as cold hearted as it gets. And this is consistent with the inconceivable disconnect that led them to murder their children, animals, leaving animals behind with no care, etc.

To say Lee dodged a bullet in an understatement. She, it seems, found a good foster parent who helped her navigate her feeling of abandonment.

All jmo

 

[staunchcharacter]

Admittedly I haven't read all of the posts here, but I had not realized that there was a 4th sibling, the oldest one, 'Dontay', in Devonte's family.



http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...sf/2018/04/devonte_hart_family_crash_its.html

According to the court documents previously posted about the children and their aunt and mother, the mother had seven children at the time of that document being created. The oldest three had been removed and then later, the youngest four were removed together. It's sad that the oldest of the second group of children wasn't able to stay with his siblings although obviously what they ultimately met in the end is tragic.

 

[Swirlz]

The horrifying abuse of these children is very similar to what was done to Hana Williams and her brother, adopted from Ethiopia into a homeschooling, isolated, &#8220;savior&#8221; family. Hana was killed and her brother was lucky to have survived. I believe there is a specific kind of pathology to these collector/savior adoptive families. The outside world sees the parents as selfless do-gooders, when the reality is heartbreakingly heinous for the children.