CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #6

[mtnlites]

I've got a "misrepresented by the media" story as well.
In the early 00's, the concept of blogging was still new, but I was really into it and I had a medium-sized regular reader base. At the same time, I was struggling to quit drinking, and for a few weeks, I was in an outpatient program. I'm a pretty open person who doesn't believe in burying uncomfortable truths, so I blogged about it. I felt like talking about my experience could only help others.

About a month later, I got a call from a reporter from a local radio station, one of the big all-news, all-talk ones. She'd seen my blog and wanted to do a story. I was excited and said "yes". She came out to our place and was extremely friendly; asked about my motivations etc and made recordings of me saying how I think that spreading awareness can be helpful.

But when the segment actually aired, it was a 20-second hatchet job, all about "Man these bloggers are such weirdos. Look at this looney tune. She has no boundaries at all and is telling everyone she's a DRUNK. Who does that?" Followed by a sound bite from edited to make me sound as crazy as possible.

That was my brush with fame with the media. It literally killed my passion for blogging.

Aw, man, that stinks! :-(

I'm kind of a let-it-all-out gal myself. Back in my blogging days I wrote more than 1200 posts. When my son died, I blogged every little detail of what happened, how I felt, and the horror of the aftermath. Made a lot of people angry, got a lot of drama in return, and finally just gave it up. Now my family "vlogs."

I think you and I would get along just fine.

 

[Momoffourboys]

I'm honestly not sure why this is even a topic at this point. We've rehashed it a lot. I attend these festivals myself. I know what goes on there, as well as what doesn't.

They had apparently not been to one for a while before they died, nor had they been out much at all. (According to the neighbors who rarely saw them.)

Lord help me. I totally agree.
The festivals, IMO, are irrelevant. And with all due respect to others, there is “drug use” at concerts, sporting events and every party.

My kids grew up at festivals and concerts.

These women were evil. They used these kids for their own benefit. Accolades, cash...some strange satisfaction. Who knows. I don”t need drugs as an excuse for their evil. Sometimes its just that. Evil.

 

[Mrs. B]

(I hope I did this right. Please let me know if you see any errors that need fixing. Thanks)

The following may offer a perspective on the contradictions between reports of child abuse against JH and SH in contrast to the appearance of the family as portrayed online and to friends. In referencing these situations I am using JH/SH because I don't know if the abuse was done by one or both. Excerpts in italics are from Wikipedia page about The cycle of abuse a social cycle theory developed in 1979 by Lenore E. Walker to explain patterns of behavior in an abusive relationship. Additional links below.

Comments in regular text are my opinions or observations only and are not based on any professional expertise.

Cycle of abuse

1: Tension building
Stress builds from the pressures of daily life, like conflict over children, marital issues, misunderstandings, or other family conflicts. (...) During this period, the abuser feels ignored, threatened, annoyed or wronged. The feeling lasts on average several minutes to hours, it may last as much as several months.

JH wrote often about the tension and stress she was going through. She seemed to have an ongoing laundry list of situations that put her in crises mode.

2: Acute violence
Characterized by outbursts of violent, abusive incidents which may be preceded by verbal abuse and include psychological abuse. During this stage the abuser attempts to dominate their partner (or child) with the use of domestic violence.

Speculation here is that JH/SH became increasingly frustrated when tensions built up and vented their frustration at the children. (According to reports made to CPS) There's no way of knowing how often this happened, but there were several reports made over the years.

3: Reconciliation
The perpetrator may begin to feel remorse, guilty feelings, or fear that their partner will leave or call the police. The victim feels pain, fear, humiliation, disrespect, confusion, and may mistakenly feel responsible. Characterized by affection, apology, or, alternatively, ignoring the incident, this phase marks an apparent end of violence, with assurances that it will never happen again, or that the abuser will do their best to change. During this stage the abuser may feel or claim to feel overwhelming remorse and sadness.

It's possible that JH/SH were genuinely remorseful for losing control of their anger. They may have sincerely expressed the desire to do better and promised each time that it would not happen again. During these times the children were taken on special trips given adequate food, treated with extra kindness. This would have been the time for photo shoots, videos, festivals etc. to show everyone (and to create online documentation that the were a happy loving family).

4: Calm During this period the abuser may agree to engage in counseling, ask for forgiveness, and create a normal atmosphere. However, interpersonal difficulties will inevitably arise, leading again to the tension building phase.

The calm phase would be when the food-fun-festival time is over and they return to everyday home life, tensions released exhausted and happy.

Once they are away from their public persona, tension begins to build again. Stress, illness, disagreements, the children growing up and testing the limits. Financial problems, social problems, it's always something. Eventually it gets to be too much and someone lashes out.

Additional thoughts: Escalation

During this last year it may be that some or all of the children were actively rebelling against their whole lifestyle. They wanted friends of their own, maybe they wanted to go to public school, or church. They may have challenged the "Moms" rejecting the plans they had for the future and arguing for the right to decide their own future. To JH/SH this may have seemed ungrateful, thus making the rebellious children targets for the indignation and wrath of JH/SH.

Here the cycle repeats in theory, but other factors seem to have brought it to another level. If Devonte and Hannah became angry, sullen (as teens often do) that may have triggered a major crisis. If these two ran away, as others have suggested, with CPS due to arrive the next day, JH/SH made have decided to leave them and run for the hills. They may have told the other children that they were going to get friends to help look for them. The situation ended in tragedy for the children.

Excerpts from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_abuse

Links to other resources: Please note I am not endorsing all of the material on these links. They may or may not be helpful.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/learningcenter/
https://www.livestrong.com/article/100480-four-stages-abusive-relationship/
https://www.helpguide.org/articles/abuse/child-abuse-and-neglect.htm

 

[Mrs. B]

(This relates to the vehicle crash, but is also a PSA. This info can save a life.)

Disclaimer: The evidence all seems indicate that this crash was an intentional act. I tend to agree with that assessment. There is, however, one remote chance that this was a case of uncontrolled acceleration. The video links below describe how this can happen and how it might have happened in this case. I am adding this post for two reasons. First to present another possible (albeit unlikely) cause for the crash.

Secondly, to pass on information found about how to survive sudden acceleration of a vehicle. It's not too difficult if you know what you are doing. It might be impossible if you don't know and you are impaired by panic, alcohol or fatigue.

I realized that if I was driving and my car began to accelerate on its own I would have done everything the wrong way. Now I know. I would have tried to pump the breaks, and yank the keys out of the ignition in an attempt to turn off the motor.

Even if you are able to push on the break and stop the vehicle, the engine will continue revving out of control, pulling the keys can cause a loss of breaking and power steering, at that point the vehicle will lurch into drive, accelerate and continue to go faster until you crash. Breaks may no longer work.

The way to deal with sudden acceleration is as follows:

1. Brake firmly. Do not pump the brakes. Do not turn off the engine yet, because doing so would disable the power assist for your steering and brakes.

2. Shift the transmission into Neutral. Don't worry if the engine revs up alarmingly - most modern cars have rev-limiters to protect it, and this move will put you in back in control of your vehicle.

3. Steer to a safe location and come to a full stop.

4. Shut off the engine with the transmission still in Neutral.

5. Finally, shift the transmission into Park or, with a manual transmission, set the emergency brake. Then breathe deep and call for help. Do not attempt to drive the car.

Links to two YouTube videos on that demonstrate this from

Consumer Reports and ABC News

Sudden Acceleration: How to stop your car if it happens to you Consumer Reports
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ98Z4apta0

Woman's Car Speeds Out of Control at 110 MPH on Highway After Gas Pedal Stuck
ABC News
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovRu_a3-p8E

Sudden unintended acceleration can be rooted in a variety of vehicle defects including ergonomic design flaws, mechanical or electro-mechanical failures, or electronic failures. http://www.suddenacceleration.com/

Problems related to vehicle speed control for the 2003 GMC Yukon, most reported lack of acceleration but some also reported uncontrolled acceleration plus loss of breaks. Accelerator Stuck Problems of GMC Yukon
http://www.carproblemzoo.com/gmc/yukon/accelerator-stuck-problems.php

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I thought the same blue.... Too risky for even them to see a doctor but who knows what she could use over the counter or illegally purchased... One thing for certain.... It appears to be signs of something, probably gained it all since move to woodland and her own lock down for probalby various reasons,
thanks blue

Weight gain is a very common side effect with anti-depressants, but sometimes people who are depressed gain weight, so it could be either. I think it's doubtful she sought treatment for depression though. JMO because she was so private, and then who would watch the kids, and what if something slipped to a doctor or psychiatrist (like how angry she gets with the kids or how she punished them), etc.

She might have been self-medicating though, and drinking could cause weight gain.

 

[Zelda1010]

Forgive me if this has been discussed at length.

Would it be fair to assume, due to the legalities of adoption at the time, that Jen would've had to have legally adopted the kids on her own, and then Sarah would have had to petition the court to pursue a second parent adoption?

I'm not well versed in the adoption stuff, but that is what I'm gathering from my reading.

 

[Sillybilly]

This post lands at random.

Some recent posts have been removed.

The topic of this thread is the Hart family tragedy, not extensive discussion of what you think of the hippie generation or whether home schooling is good, bad, etc.

Move on please.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

(I hope I did this right. Please let me know if you see any errors that need fixing. Thanks)

The following may offer a perspective on the contradictions between reports of child abuse against JH and SH in contrast to the appearance of the family as portrayed online and to friends. In referencing these situations I am using JH/SH because I don't know if the abuse was done by one or both. Excerpts in italics are from Wikipedia page about The cycle of abuse a social cycle theory developed in 1979 by Lenore E. Walker to explain patterns of behavior in an abusive relationship. Additional links below.

Comments in regular text are my opinions or observations only and are not based on any professional expertise.

Cycle of abuse

1: Tension building
Stress builds from the pressures of daily life, like conflict over children, marital issues, misunderstandings, or other family conflicts. (...) During this period, the abuser feels ignored, threatened, annoyed or wronged. The feeling lasts on average several minutes to hours, it may last as much as several months.

JH wrote often about the tension and stress she was going through. She seemed to have an ongoing laundry list of situations that put her in crises mode.

2: Acute violence
Characterized by outbursts of violent, abusive incidents which may be preceded by verbal abuse and include psychological abuse. During this stage the abuser attempts to dominate their partner (or child) with the use of domestic violence.

Speculation here is that JH/SH became increasingly frustrated when tensions built up and vented their frustration at the children. (According to reports made to CPS) There's no way of knowing how often this happened, but there were several reports made over the years.

3: Reconciliation
The perpetrator may begin to feel remorse, guilty feelings, or fear that their partner will leave or call the police. The victim feels pain, fear, humiliation, disrespect, confusion, and may mistakenly feel responsible. Characterized by affection, apology, or, alternatively, ignoring the incident, this phase marks an apparent end of violence, with assurances that it will never happen again, or that the abuser will do their best to change. During this stage the abuser may feel or claim to feel overwhelming remorse and sadness.

It's possible that JH/SH were genuinely remorseful for losing control of their anger. They may have sincerely expressed the desire to do better and promised each time that it would not happen again. During these times the children were taken on special trips given adequate food, treated with extra kindness. This would have been the time for photo shoots, videos, festivals etc. to show everyone (and to create online documentation that the were a happy loving family).

4: Calm During this period the abuser may agree to engage in counseling, ask for forgiveness, and create a normal atmosphere. However, interpersonal difficulties will inevitably arise, leading again to the tension building phase.

The calm phase would be when the food-fun-festival time is over and they return to everyday home life, tensions released exhausted and happy.

Once they are away from their public persona, tension begins to build again. Stress, illness, disagreements, the children growing up and testing the limits. Financial problems, social problems, it's always something. Eventually it gets to be too much and someone lashes out.

Additional thoughts: Escalation

During this last year it may be that some or all of the children were actively rebelling against their whole lifestyle. They wanted friends of their own, maybe they wanted to go to public school, or church. They may have challenged the "Moms" rejecting the plans they had for the future and arguing for the right to decide their own future. To JH/SH this may have seemed ungrateful, thus making the rebellious children targets for the indignation and wrath of JH/SH.

Here the cycle repeats in theory, but other factors seem to have brought it to another level. If Devonte and Hannah became angry, sullen (as teens often do) that may have triggered a major crisis. If these two ran away, as others have suggested, with CPS due to arrive the next day, JH/SH made have decided to leave them and run for the hills. They may have told the other children that they were going to get friends to help look for them. The situation ended in tragedy for the children.

Excerpts from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_abuse

Links to other resources: Please note I am not endorsing all of the material on these links. They may or may not be helpful.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/learningcenter/
https://www.livestrong.com/article/100480-four-stages-abusive-relationship/
https://www.helpguide.org/articles/abuse/child-abuse-and-neglect.htm

Great find. Makes a lot of sense IMO. Thanks!

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[HeidiTX232]

Forgive me if this has been discussed at length.

Would it be fair to assume, due to the legalities of adoption at the time, that Jen would've had to have legally adopted the kids on her own, and then Sarah would have had to petition the court to pursue a second parent adoption?

I'm not well versed in the adoption stuff, but that is what I'm gathering from my reading.

Yes. It *is* possible for a same sex couple to adopt together in two counties in Texas (as of 2013; this could have changed). Neither of the counties the Harts adopted from did this at the time of their adoptions. But many states allow “second parent adoption.” I am unaware of whether the states they lived in allow that for same sex couples and what the stipulations are (for example, needing to be married).

 

[Zelda1010]

Yes. It *is* possible for a same sex couple to adopt together in two counties in Texas (as of 2013; this could have changed). Neither of the counties the Harts adopted from did this at the time of their adoptions. But many states allow “second parent adoption.” I am unaware of whether the states they lived in allow that for same sex couples and what the stipulations are (for example, needing to be married).

So, since they were not married at the time of the adoption, it becomes even more unlikely that the original adoption was finalized with them both as the legal parents, right?

And it would be most likely that getting married in 2013 would have allowed Sarah to become a legal parent. It just would have required additional work and we have no idea, right now, whether they did that legwork. (But, that would have been an ideal time to legally change the spelling of Ciera's name, too, wouldn't it? I am thinking being the legal guardian of the kids gave Jen power over Sarah, even though Sarah was the working partner, "Jen's" subsidies might've come close to the income Sarah brought home?)

 

[PetDetective]

So, since they were not married at the time of the adoption, it becomes even more unlikely that the original adoption was finalized with them both as the legal parents, right?

And it would be most likely that getting married in 2013 would have allowed Sarah to become a legal parent. It just would have required additional work and we have no idea, right now, whether they did that legwork. (But, that would have been an ideal time to legally change the spelling of Ciera's name, too, wouldn't it? I am thinking being the legal guardian of the kids gave Jen power over Sarah, even though Sarah was the working partner, "Jen's" subsidies might've come close to the income Sarah brought home?)

This is probably the reason Sarah took the blame for the child abuse. Had Jen been convicted I imagine there would have been more consequences.


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[Sleuth99]

This is probably the reason Sarah took the blame for the child abuse. Had Jen been convicted I imagine there would have been more consequences.


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Great point. If true it would also speak to the role that Sarah played in the continued abuse that the children endured. She served at minimum to be an enabler and an accomplice in any abuse that Jen dished out.


IMO

 

[Breamworthy]

<snip>

http://thefederalist.com/2016/07/06/another-study-finds-same-sex-parenting-isnt-best-for-kids/

I think these articles are more relevant than drugs at festivals TBH.

:cow:

With all due respect, please don't post homophobic nonsense and then say "It's just what came up when I googled it". I actually tried to read that article looking for the "study" it claimed to be based on and eventually came to a quote about their sources: "We don't need data to know this truth". This hate-filled post perpetuates all kinds of harmful and incorrect stereotypes with no facts, so please don't post things like that without vetting them just because they showed up when you googled something.

 

[staunchcharacter]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_lesbian_relationships

http://thefederalist.com/2016/07/06/another-study-finds-same-sex-parenting-isnt-best-for-kids/

I think these articles are more relevant than drugs at festivals TBH.

:cow:

The second link references a study that has been called into question by the very site in which it is hosted:

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/drt/2016/2410392/

I'm sure you are trying to be helpful but we have nothing to suggest Sarah or Jen were abusive towards one another and research has been in support of same-sex parents stating that children are the same or better off than their peers.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...nting-studies-suggesting-otherwise-are-skewed

I don't think their sexual orientation or their attendance of festivals or their homeschooling their children were a factor. There are bad people in all circles. None of these identifying items can be used to explain why this tragedy occurred.

 

[staunchcharacter]

Yes. It *is* possible for a same sex couple to adopt together in two counties in Texas (as of 2013; this could have changed). Neither of the counties the Harts adopted from did this at the time of their adoptions. But many states allow &#8220;second parent adoption.&#8221; I am unaware of whether the states they lived in allow that for same sex couples and what the stipulations are (for example, needing to be married).

Second parent adoption is very expensive. You could previously get the money back in your taxes but that ended in the beginning of 2014. My wife and I have spent more than $5000 for one child in 2014 (this included additional documents to protect us in medical scenarios prior to same-sex marriage becoming legal) so I could adopt our son that she carried.

I agree that Sarah was likely not their legal parent. There are not too many situations where you are forced to prove this when your child has two moms. I've signed medical forms, school papers, insurance forms, etc. all before the adoption was finalized. No one in our life knows the status and has probably just always assumed we are both his parents legally from day one.

 

[katydid23]

I don't think this incident was the result of a stuck accelerator. I know that can and has happened and it is very frightening. But I don't believe it was what happened here.

A few reasons, that I don't see it are:

Pretty coincidental, after the CPS visit, and the sudden departure, leaving animals behind, not taking camping equipment etc-----and then coincidentally the pedal gets stuck and they go over the cliff.

It seems odd that they turn off the highway, stop the car with no problem. Then suddenly, right then it sticks? IDK---sounds unlikely. Most of the cases I read about were where the driver was on the highway and stepping on the gas pedal, then it sticks and won't stop.

Also, if it was stuck, why not turn the wheel, try to avoid the cliff?

 

[Silver~Bell]

What I'm wondering is when the toxicology reports will be issued on Ciera and Abbi. Did they, too, have substantial amounts of diphenhydramine in their systems? Also, has LE checked CC TV from all along their route, at gas stations?

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[MzOpinion8d]

I don't think this incident was the result of a stuck accelerator. I know that can and has happened and it is very frightening. But I don't believe it was what happened here.

A few reasons, that I don't see it are:

Pretty coincidental, after the CPS visit, and the sudden departure, leaving animals behind, not taking camping equipment etc-----and then coincidentally the pedal gets stuck and they go over the cliff.

It seems odd that they turn off the highway, stop the car with no problem. Then suddenly, right then it sticks? IDK---sounds unlikely. Most of the cases I read about were where the driver was on the highway and stepping on the gas pedal, then it sticks and won't stop.

Also, if it was stuck, why not turn the wheel, try to avoid the cliff?

I don’t even understand why people are still discussing this when LE has been really clear about the info they have. The vehicle stopped. The vehicle accelerated without braking and went over the cliff. There were no skid marks or other indication of any attempt to avoid the cliff.

None of them were wearing seatbelts, which essentially ensured their deaths. To top it off, they were strongly sedated with either alcohol or diphenhydramine, in order to either make them asleep or totally dull their response time.

I won’t be the least bit surprised if we hear the child safety locks were engaged in the back doors, ensuring they couldn’t be opened from inside the car.

 

[Gigglingtoes]

I don&#8217;t even understand why people are still discussing this when LE has been really clear about the info they have. The vehicle stopped. The vehicle accelerated without braking and went over the cliff. There were no skid marks or other indication of any attempt to avoid the cliff.

None of them were wearing seatbelts, which essentially ensured their deaths. To top it off, they were strongly sedated with either alcohol or diphenhydramine, in order to either make them asleep or totally dull their response time.

I won&#8217;t be the least bit surprised if we hear the child safety locks were engaged in the back doors, ensuring they couldn&#8217;t be opened from inside the car.

Their family/friends are probably having a hard time accepting the truth and its easier to make up excuses and be in denial that someone you know could do something like this.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I can’t edit my above post, but sorry if it comes across too harsh or snarky. I’m cranky and frustrated with the world and everything in it today so it may have come out wrong.