ACTIVE SEARCH CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 Mar 2018 #4

[human]

I think a friend or former neighbor was talking about that in an interview from my memory.

But the neighbor who wasn't home when Hannah ran said that one of the girls gave his 5yr old son a popsicle are those sugar free too?


IMO

It could have been frozen fruit. Sugar is very unpopular.

40 years ago I kept my kids from sugar, Sugar causes nothing but problems in so many ways.

We lived out in the country. I always had bowls of fruit out that my children ignored and the other children scarfed it down.

One day my neighbor asked me what was wrong with my kids. She said whenever they came over, they scarfed down the candy she has out in bowls.

I gave up the idea of sugar restriction then and there. But now it is a totally universal thing. Here where I live in a Third World Nation, the doctor has huge posters on the effects of sugar. In the schools, they quit serving fruit juice and have water instead.

A couple of years ago the newspaper had an enormous front page article which showed the picture of a jar of Nutella and what is in it. I was totally depressed as I thought it was nuts and chocolate. A nice healthier addiction, I thought.

Even here where I live there is the gluten issue and there are athletes that are vegan . There are a lot of vegetarians. There is a big bio section in the grocery store. So alternative food ideas are very mainstream everywhere.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Ok, here is what is so incomprehensible to me... I am a (really older) white woman who trained in a classical music upbringing, who grew up in the 70's.

What connected us (racially) was music. The love of music. Yes Diana Ross, the Temptations, in the 60's, but when in the 70's I discovered Stevie Wonder, Parliament Funkadelic, Earth Wind and Fire, and then beyond to Stanley Clark and Chic Corea, to, Fania Allstars, and Donna Summer, to the white musicians like Bonnie Raitt, and the Rolling Stones and later Eric Clapton (reggae) who were in love with black roots and brought the gem of blues to the table...

I think the Hart children might have missed out? Cat Stevens, Joni Mitchell? (No diss to Joni, her collaboration with Miles Davis was incredible)

But do you see where I am going? Where was the blues? The Jazz, the reggae, or reggaeton, the rap, the disco, the poetry, the meaning?

Blues and jazz are America's gift to the world and it is black. I don't need to get political to share that fact. It's a musical fact. If I, as a white old lady (well really good looking) knows that fact, then how does Devonte know it?

He dosen't. And omg, I am so beyond sad that I know it and he dosen't.

 

[Emi]

https://twitter.com/gabriellekarol/status/983389688374345734
#HartFamily investigation update from @MendoSheriff - at 11AM 10 searchers from sheriff's search & rescue team will conduct search in vicinity of crash site @KOINNews

https://twitter.com/gabriellekarol/status/983389904414564359
California Highway Patrol will be providing helicopter for assistance from air. 11 a.m. time was chosen b/c of low tide, which sheriff's office says will provide best conditions for search @KOINNews

https://twitter.com/gabriellekarol/status/983416973026471937
FBI's San Francisco office says it is continuing to help with the #HartFamily investigation, providing technical assistance and agents @KOINNews

 

[SATA]

We also know what Jen did and said were different correct ? Who doesn't let kids eat sugar, afraid of GMo, processed food but ok with "cured meats!" I would think it was whatever serviced and was easiest for them as well as at one point, cheapest according to article. Really?

They could have eaten that meat on camping trips. That is from where Devonte knew about it.
When you travel, you tend to eat a little differently for convenience.

Not that I want to defend those criminals.

 

[11223344]

In this context, my mind went to jerky bc it definitely doesn't need refrigeration.

Maybe, somehow in the limited interactions with that neighbor, the kids said they aren't eating sugar? Also, I study diets and nutrition and many, many people cut out white sugar but still allow fruit, dates, honey, maple syrup, etc. they just avoid white sugar. Then other don't allow any sweeteners but do allow fruit and then others who don't do any sugar but what is naturally in vegetables.

Just my speculation and moo.

It could have been frozen fruit. Sugar is very unpopular.

40 years ago I kept my kids from sugar, Sugar causes nothing but problems in so many ways.

We lived out in the country. I always had bowls of fruit out that my children ignored and the other children scarfed it down.

One day my neighbor asked me what was wrong with my kids. She said whenever they came over, they scarfed down the candy she has out in bowls.

I gave up the idea of sugar restriction then and there. But now it is a totally universal thing. Here where I live in a Third World Nation, the doctor has huge posters on the effects of sugar. In the schools, they quit serving fruit juice and have water instead.

A couple of years ago the newspaper had an enormous front page article which showed the picture of a jar of Nutella and what is in it. I was totally depressed as I thought it was nuts and chocolate. A nice healthier addiction, I thought.

Even here where I live there is the gluten issue and there are athletes that are vegan . There are a lot of vegetarians. There is a big bio section in the grocery store. So alternative food ideas are very mainstream everywhere.

I am not against vegan lifestyle, or no sugar or processed food, etc. Problem being, if you have six children who are already malnourished and you don't make up for vitamin deficiencies, aren't working with nutritionists, proper medical folks, giving them proper supplements and ensuring their growth, that they are meeting growth and weight expectations, they are getting everything they need, from whatever you are eating, and don't know nutritional or caloric, protein, carb etc...needs of these children then that could lead to some of the kids lack of development outside of punishing them by witholding meals. And I went based on what I had read.

 

[Zelda1010]

I wonder if the Turpin story scared these 2 moms. They might think they might get arrested if others knew of their parenting styles. Even if not as extreme as the Turpins people are on high alert for this type of thing right now.

Or the kids. Everyone says they'd help a kid that climbs out of her window for help like Ms Turpin. Standing in line at the grocery store or gas station could've given these kids a glimpse at that story. And we don't know how much media access they had.

Or the moms could have used the Turpins as a lesson. I bet they scoured their own house for journals :/

eta...on second thought the moms probably were horrified by the Turpins and would not have been looking for similarities, but decisions still might've been influenced by that case after CPS came knocking

 

[11223344]

In this context, my mind went to jerky bc it definitely doesn't need refrigeration.

Maybe, somehow in the limited interactions with that neighbor, the kids said they aren't eating sugar? Also, I study diets and nutrition and many, many people cut out white sugar but still allow fruit, dates, honey, maple syrup, etc. they just avoid white sugar. Then other don't allow any sweeteners but do allow fruit and then others who don't do any sugar but what is naturally in vegetables.

Just my speculation and moo.

They could have eaten that meat on camping trips. That is from where Devonte knew about it.
When you travel, you tend to eat a little differently for convenience.

Not that I want to defend those criminals.

Exactly...so doesn't mean they ate meat. People are using that. Does it matter?

 

[human]

They could have eaten that meat on camping trips. That is from where Devonte knew about it.
When you travel, you tend to eat a little differently for convenience.

Not that I want to defend those criminals.

The whole eating thing is filled with all kinds of people saying their ideas. I have a friend who eats anything but for sure has bone broth and raw milk.

Then there are the vegans who eat no oil. They say even olive oil is bad,

Then there are those that do not eat sugar but eat agave which others say is bad.

There are those that say no grains.

Alcohol is bad and it causes breast cancer, Wine is good. It protects against cancer.

I could go on and on. There is no way to define any eating except that cured meat is probably not accepted by alternative eaters, is it?

The idea of complete protein apparently has been debunked. You do not need animal protein. But that is what I have read. Who knows what others think

 

[Quill]

I think a friend or former neighbor was talking about that in an interview from my memory.

But the neighbor who wasn't home when Hannah ran said that one of the girls gave his 5yr old son a popsicle are those sugar free too?


IMO

It depends on if they shunned all artificial sweeteners. You can make your own with fruit juice or other natural sweeteners. I am one of those "crazy" no sugar folks. Best decision I ever made. ; )

 

[mtnlites]

I am not against vegan lifestyle, or no sugar or processed food, etc. Problem being, if you have six children who are already malnourished and you don't make up for vitamin deficiencies, aren't working with nutritionists, proper medical folks, giving them proper supplements and ensuring their growth, that they are meeting growth and weight expectations, they are getting everything they need, from whatever you are eating, and don't know nutritional or caloric, protein, carb etc...needs of these children then that could lead to some of the kids lack of development outside of punishing them by witholding meals. And I went based on what I had read.

Do we know that these children were malnourished? We have the neighbor saying that the children were asking for food but we don't know how long that was going on. CPS didn't have the opportunity to investigate those claims, either. All we really have to go on, at this point, is the word of the neighbors and some pictures-pictures that only provide speculation.

 

[Quill]

You can't assume "vegan" or even vegetarian from the fact that they didn't eat sugar. In fact, there are a number of low-carb diets which emphasize meats and vegetables as their centerpieces, which disallow sugar. The point of eating sugar-free is to avoid all of the nasty over-processed junk that's out there.

As someone else noted, Devonte asked the DeKalbs for cured meats, so my gut tells me that they didn't eat a meat-restricted diet-- when they were allowed to eat at all, that is.

Agree! You just described my diet. No sugar, very low carb, no processed anything really.

 

[LietKynes]

Sorry just catching up and have to go soon--- was the body found in ocean one of the missing children ? I'm assuming it was.
Have they (kids) all been accounted for yet ?
Will try to read more later tonight. Tia.

 

[Whiteorchids]

I don´t live in America, but I would call police.
They can take it from there - better be safe than sorry (like that poor lady next door.)


______________________________

Hannah first ran to a neighbour who had actually interacted with the children.
They had done little chores for him. He had a different impression than the DeKalbs. He claims he often saw them outside and they also visited him.
I think it must be him she ran to, but gates locked. He has animals on his property I think.

So she didn´t run to a total stranger initially.
Wonder what he would have done.

Cops in CA won’t get involved they will tell you to call CPS which is unfortunate. My neighbor called on another neighbor. They handed her a card told her to contact social services.

 

[liltexans]

:modstop:

STOP the bickering and the personalized posts.

The minute this thread becomes about you, it stops being about the missing Hart children.

Links are required when stating facts. If someone asks you for a link, provide it. Do not tell them to go look for it. That’s a TOS violation.

Differences of opinion are expected and welcome. Treat other posters with respect. If you cannot do that, use the helpful “Ignore” feature.

 

[Whiteorchids]

https://twitter.com/gabriellekarol/status/983389688374345734
#HartFamily investigation update from @MendoSheriff - at 11AM 10 searchers from sheriff's search & rescue team will conduct search in vicinity of crash site @KOINNews

https://twitter.com/gabriellekarol/status/983389904414564359
California Highway Patrol will be providing helicopter for assistance from air. 11 a.m. time was chosen b/c of low tide, which sheriff's office says will provide best conditions for search @KOINNews

https://twitter.com/gabriellekarol/status/983416973026471937
FBI's San Francisco office says it is continuing to help with the #HartFamily investigation, providing technical assistance and agents @KOINNews

I have no faith in the FBI anymore with all the school and bar shootings that with all the warnings could have been prevented.

 

[human]

Do we know that these children were malnourished? We have the neighbor saying that the children were asking for food but we don't know how long that was going on. CPS didn't have the opportunity to investigate those claims, either. All we really have to go on, at this point, is the word of the neighbors and some pictures-pictures that only provide speculation.

And the children over the course of years who reported food withholding as well as a couple of adults now who have come forward and said that food was used as a punishment.

I doubt if food withholding cropped up as a punishment now and again. I doubt if they said, “Hey. We haven’t used food punishment. Let’s try that again.”

It seems like the belt was another standard. 2008 and the Dekalbs saying Hannah said she was hit with a belt.

I don’t know how many people have reported abuse in real life. I was a mandated reported so I received training on knowing what to do.

In a couple of instances, I had big discussions with my coworker and volunteers in the classroom to discuss if what I was seeing was accurate or if I was jumping to conclusions. What had they seen? What did they think?

A lot of us try to find the good in people. As teachers we must look for the good in students and capitalize on that. So to identify someone as a villain in a heinous situation is not that easy.

And I do think they had white privilege going for them big time

 

[maggieo]

There are very few pictures of the kids eating--which is somewhat unusual in these times--but there is one picture of the two younger boys apparently sharing a cream pie. It looks as posed as all the others, of course, including the weird "martini" photos.

Honestly, I'd be surprised if these women did let their kids have sugar, or very much sugar. Yes, it's speculation, because we might never know the truth. (I do hope a journal surfaces.) But in the circles they ran in, sugar is considered practically poisonous. I was always a little embarrassed when my kids were younger, because we all loved sweets and I wasn't good at limiting them. I also had a super-skinny kid so it would have felt abusive, to me, to limit his food in any way.

I feel weird being so nosy and speculative about this family and their tragedy. It's gripped me like few cases ever do, I guess because they're so much like many families I know in my fairly progressive community (I know *many* same-sex parents with adopted kids of other races) and they're always the kinds of families we look up to: big, fun, messy, creative, kind, and caring about the world.

This case has made me question **all** of my assumptions. God bless those poor kids.

 

[PrinceFan]

If any kid came to my house in the middle of the night claiming abuse, I'd be calling the police. I don't care if the parents were right there explaining the kid lies. Let the cops sort it out. At least my conscience would be clear.

THANK YOU! A second doesn't go by that I don't wish that it had been me they ran too! No way in hell would a distraught child claiming abuse be returning back to the parent, especially given that my daughter is a pediatric nurse, and I would suffer the consequences of protecting the child/children. I would have made sure Hannah went to the hospital that much I know. Back in the 70's, battered neighbor wives with their kids would often flee to our house for refuge for some reason. We would hide them in the attic or laundry room if the abuser showed up. That is exactly what I would have done in this case too I don't understand why Mr. D gave up Hannah so easily... guess he didn't really want to deal with it.

 

[flourish]

This case is so frustrating as far as lack of information. Because we can assume things based on their perceived/projected lifestyle, but then we're hit with, yes but most granola hippie, progressive, whatever families don't hit their children or withhold food.

Because whatever normal or typical is.. . This family wasn't.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I am not against vegan lifestyle, or no sugar or processed food, etc. Problem being, if you have six children who are already malnourished and you don't make up for vitamin deficiencies, aren't working with nutritionists, proper medical folks, giving them proper supplements and ensuring their growth, that they are meeting growth and weight expectations, they are getting everything they need, from whatever you are eating, and don't know nutritional or caloric, protein, carb etc...needs of these children then that could lead to some of the kids lack of development outside of punishing them by witholding meals. And I went based on what I had read.

bbm: Me neither, as long as it is an adult decision?

Kids need fat, natural sugar, (not junk) protein. And as you so well pointed out Jas, I'm not sure these kids were getting enough (of anything)...

Devonte's list of peanut butter and cured meat (sausage?) says to me the deficiencies.

Kids needs developmentally are in contrast to the vegan/vegetarian community which is based on a philosophy, and sadly, not on nutrition.

I went vegetarian for five years in my early 20's. (this was before vegan)

I went back to meat occasionally because I realized my body needed it. Not dissing anyone for veg or vegan lifestyle, but I do know I would never impose it on my child, for developmental, physical, and medical reasons.

Just, mooing, jmo....