CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #3

[Elley Mae]

Bump.

Authorities have not released the remains of Hart family members killed in SUV plunge to relatives; missing Sierra Hart’s age may have been miscalculated:

Mendocino County Sheriff Public Information Officer Captain Greg Van Patten told CrimeOnline that authorities were able to identify the remains of Markis Hart, 19; Jeremiah Hart, 14; and Abigail Hart, 14, through photographs and with the help of Jennifer and Sarah Hart’s relatives, who knew their adopted children. Both mothers were found dead inside their 2003 GMS Yukon after it plunged over a cliff into the Pacific Ocean on March 26, with Jennifer behind the wheel. The children were found outside the vehicle. At this time, authorities believe Jennifer drove the SUV over a cliff intentionally.

The sheriff’s office has placed a hold on the recovered bodies, meaning that the remains will not be released to relatives for dispensation at this time.

Jennifer and Sarah Hart were “largely estranged” from their families, Van Patten said, but the relatives were aware of the children and had interacted with them.

http://www.crimeonline.com/2018/04/...harts-age-may-have-been-miscalculated-police/

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Bbm: Bodies are being held for positive ID? I'm not sure of other reasons? Maybe waiting for test results or review that determine previous injury, or time of death?

 

[Gooddeeds]

Unspeakably sad to think about.
I couldn´t care less where Jen or Sarah will be laid to rest, but the SIBLINGS, omg.
I hope they are buried together, far away from their "mothers". In a beautiful spot. Not that they care now, but they should at least be shown some respect in death, poor angels.

I hope someone steps forward to make a special burial location in honor of the children. It matters not to them but it matters for all to remember their sweet vulnerability.

 

[K_Z]

Excuse my lack of knowledge in crash dynamics, I genuinely have no clue. What are the chances of survival before final landing?

My take on the no seatbelts is they wanted to project a family event so it was staged as either a ‘mindful parent’ travel nap or getting out of the vehicle together for views and photos...versus a driver who wasn’t in control. I’m curious what are others theories?

If you want, I can do an estimate of the math for the impact force.

But suffice it to say that the rapid deceleration forces from a 100 foot fall (30 meters) are roughly equivalent to standing still and being hit by a car moving about 70 mph (or about 100- 110 kph).

Being inside the car as it fell would not necessarily mitigate any of the deceleration forces on the human body as it tumbled and fell this distance. (Even with a seatbelt on.)

The deceleration blunt trauma to tissues and organs, along with ordinary penetrating and crush trauma, is not usually repairable, even for sky divers who have a crash. Things like CPR usually don't matter with massive blunt trauma. With massive blunt trauma, the body may be relatively intact on the outside, but inside it's not repairable-- organs and circulatory system are permanently damaged from the shearing forces and the deceleration impact. I could get more graphic, but this is a sufficient explanation, I think.

The likelihood that any of them could have survived a 100 foot fall off a relatively vertical cliff, inside that vehicle, is pretty close to zero. I'm somewhat comforted knowing that the possibility for consciousness for any of them after impact was virtually impossible. The force of impact on the brain would produce unconsciousness almost instantly.

 

[gcharlie]

I wonder if a possible explanation to the initial confusion about the adults seatbelts is that the adults buckled the seats before sitting down (on top of them) to stop the seatbelt alert noise from startling the kids or simply to look more like an accident. The wreckage would initially show the belts clipped in but then lack of shoulder belt injuries would tell investigators the adults were not actually restrained by the seatbelts.

One thing I can think of is restrained.

Technically, Sarah's body was restrained by being wedged in the vehicle. People down at the vehicle could have been asked if any bodies were restrained the answer could properly have been yes and then misinterpreted to mean they were wearing seat belts. I suspect that Jen's body was trapped as well.

The image below was from the early accident report, courtesy of Kym Kemp in the comments to this linked article http://kymkemp.com/2018/03/27/five-fatalities-in-accident/

 

[Gooddeeds]

I have wondered the same thing. That little vase of blue flowers placed by the roadside (photo of it posted in the photo gallery link from a few pages back) was so touching to me because it seems like the only outward, physical act of mourning/memorializing that these children have received.

With all their experience making signs and gathering in crowds, these festival people could surely put together a gathering for these poor children, even if we don't yet know where some are. We can still come together to witness for these children.

It makes me so sad, especially since these festival friends seemed to love posing with these kids for FB likes.

MOO

That’s a very interesting point. This would be an indicator of sorts for just how much authentic love the festival people would exhibit towards their own. Considering what they benefited from the children, an opportunity and tangible effort would seem natural.

 

[K_Z]

Thanks to all who found the media report that the bodies are not yet released.

I'm hoping that the music festival people that this family interacted with will eventually come together and put together a beautiful memorial gathering/ festival for the kids. They were the closest thing to real friends these kids had, apparently.

IDK-- maybe some might think that's too much pressure/ too many expectations to put on the festival people. It's not their responsibility to do something like that. But maybe they will want to.

 

[gcharlie]

Food for thought- Blog post from an adoptee.

https://theadoptedones.wordpress.com/2018/04/08/need-to-be-better-do-better/

 

[PrinceFan]

Abigail said Jen beat and bruised her and put her head under water. Wouldn’t you know who did that to you? It seems odd Sarah pled guilty to the charge.

What I find mind boggling is that LE ALLOWED someone else to take the fall or the blame for Jen's charge. How in the world does that happen?!! It is sickening that these children's abuse claims were ignored and complexion protection were given to the two women with deadly consequences in the end *smh*

 

[Gooddeeds]

If you want, I can do an estimate of the math for the impact force.

But suffice it to say that the rapid deceleration forces from a 100 foot fall (30 meters) are roughly equivalent to standing still and being hit by a car moving about 70 mph (or about 100- 110 kph).

Being inside the car as it fell would not necessarily mitigate any of the deceleration forces on the human body as it tumbled and fell this distance. (Even with a seatbelt on.)

The deceleration blunt trauma to tissues and organs, along with ordinary penetrating and crush trauma, is not usually repairable, even for sky divers who have a crash. Things like CPR usually don't matter with massive blunt trauma. With massive blunt trauma, the body may be relatively intact on the outside, but inside it's not repairable-- organs and circulatory system are permanently damaged from the shearing forces and the deceleration impact. I could get more graphic, but this is a sufficient explanation, I think.

The likelihood that any of them could have survived a 100 foot fall off a relatively vertical cliff, inside that vehicle, is pretty close to zero. I'm somewhat comforted knowing that the possibility for consciousness for any of them after impact was virtually impossible. The force of impact on the brain would produce unconsciousness almost instantly.

Thank you K-Z for your detailed insight and explanation, that really helps!

I was wondering about the door that got affixed to the rocks. It made me think about the possibilities of ejected bodies hitting the rocks before landfall. Even so they would have been unconscious before floating out right?

 

[SATA]

Purely moo and speculation but I’ve wondered if Markis has a genetic condition because of the pronounced jawline. It might also explain why at 19, he was maybe not out and about and working or in college. Or maybe he was. Do we even know?


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There has been no talk about a genetic condition, so I don´t think so.
There might have been issues with his mother during pregnancy though.

 

[emma.laurens]

I know most of you aren't one bit surprised. For all my hopes otherwise, I see how foolish my excuses for Sarah sound, now. And the DeKalb's too really, or the police who their father (the only one with any sense) called months after Hannah's visit, or the laws...I'm not sure. I'll sit on my hands for awhile and try to soak it all in. And catch up on the thread too.

Who was found in the surf (I know it will just take time to tell). Could Devonte & Sierra be out there? Devonte & Hannah? Is it worth hoping?

As horrible as it sounds, I'm almost holding out hope based on this. This is really beyond speculation, though. What would be worse than punishing all six kids together? How do you exercise enduring control? Leave the two kids who sought out help behind, to feel guilty for their siblings' deaths. That's why I say "almost" hope. They would need a lifetime of therapy after what they've been through, with that piled on.

I'm going to be paying much closer attention to what's going on around me in stores, with friends, with families in the neighborhood from now on. There's more kids going through this out there, that need adults paying attention and following up.

 

[emma.laurens]

Also I wanted to weigh in on something. I heard someone said the mothers werent wearing seatbelts when found. If that were the case i think the moms would have also been found outside the vechicle. The reason I say this is cause if the moms were in the front of the vechicle at the time it went over the cliff without a seatbelt theyd have gone through the windshield most likely. You have a chance of that happening regardless when you decide to drive off a cliff but I'd imagine the risk be greater if youre not seat belted in. Something idk what but something made it different for the moms and kids. The moms both were oddly found in the suv but kids were on the rocks and scattered. Maybe the kids went through the front windshield.

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The car rolled after going off the edge, and the front of the vehicle hit first, on the grill of the car. The car would have needed to be in a vertical, or semi-vertical position for that to happen. Newton's first law. If the car made an arc after the jump and started going into a vertical dive, anyone not strapped in would have been lifted partially off the seats and been moving towards the back of the car before the first impact. Unless (maybe) they were gripping the steering wheel. If there were any kids in the third row, they were the most likely to be ejected after the first impact. I'm guessing Sarah ended up in the back between the first impact and the second (which would have been at least partially on the car's roof).

 

[Sleuth99]

Yes...I thought so too. I thought info was meaningful or wouldn't have shared.

Jen said that? I thought it was Sarah? And this could lead to premeditation either way because they've dealt with the cps before and circumnavigated them. So how is this a family emergency?


IMO

 

[Sleuth99]

Note the" I get this one precious life to live" I, ME, MINE. And when I DECIDE its over, then MY stage props are history, too. Yecch

During the adoption anniversary do anyone know if someone checks in or something? I'm unsure of the communication boundaries etc. if someone know I'd appreciate it [emoji1476]


IMO

 

[DatelineFan]

I don't know if it changes your view at all, i doubt it does, but Sarah worked and Jen stayed home.

eta..and they are the same age

And Jen was the one accused of abuse in both 2008 & the 2010 abuse Sarah pled guilty to, which you seem to agree has some privilege attached to it, I believe the child who says Jen acts tough and beat her and dunked her head and Sarah pleading guilty might be evidence of Jen's control.

Not to say Sarah wasn't sort of BPD to Jen's seeming NPD. And the recent accusations are "they" are abusing Hannah and withholding food. So, I'm conflicted about Sarah and appreciate other's thoughts to chew on.

I'm confused about how you can be conflicted when she was at least there and watching this happen for a decade. At LEAST. If not, participating fully.

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[Talulah]

During the adoption anniversary do anyone know if someone checks in or something? I'm unsure of the communication boundaries etc. if someone know I'd appreciate it [emoji1476]


IMO

I don't believe so. My understanding is that after the adoption all checks cease unless a report of abuse is made. My suspicion is that the withholding food is somehow connected to the anniversary. Tangentially or otherwise. Maybe one or more kid had an "attitude" about the way they were being treated and the women felt their celebration was ruined. They didn't get their feel good this year, so they started restricting food. I really do think the increasing ages and sizes of the children prompted some of the issues. Older, more independent thoughts, seeing things clearly.

 

[DatelineFan]

There are 83 pictures in this linked article http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2018/04/post_296.html

I'll make some observations and point to specific pictures. As Starkville commented, these pictures do tell a specific story and paint the picture of a happy family. There are some pictures where the kids look genuinely happy. Unknown if the absence of any individual photos of Hannah and Markis is representative of the FB page or if this was an editorial choice by Oregon Live, but images of them are conspicuously absent. The chicken is featured in more shots than these two kids.

Many of the photos are from the past year or so and show the kids in settings outside of festivals and organized events, giving a sense of more balance to their family life. Most of the shots are carefully composed and some are clearly staged or styled, and as a professional photographer, I imagine that Jen shot multiple images of the same scene and selected the best ones for posting.

#7- Devonte, chicken in wading pool with a book and martini glass. Cross reference #73 of boys with wine glasses.

#8- Happy Mothers Day- one of the few pictures I've seen anywhere of a family holiday celebration. Probably taken in 2014.

#14- Sarah and Abigail on an amusement park ride. Relatively recent. Abigail looks genuinely happy.

#15- Jeremiah "giving" Devonte a haircut. Shot taken in West Linn home.

#18- Sierra laying floor in reading room (ref. #28 for finished room) of new home in Woodland. Notice how carefully staged and composed this photo is. Sierra appears to have much longer hair in this picture, given the volume under her bandanna.

#19- Devonte on a rider mower. No idea where this was taken or when. The home in West Linn was in a very steep and hilly neighborhood with smallish lots. The new home in Woodland is on 2 acres with some flat land, but not the type of fencing seen in this picture.

#22- Sierra, Markis and Devonte and the chicken- blackberry harvest. Probably taken summer 2017.

# 25. Devonte, Jeremiah and Abigail wearing eclipse glasses. The August 21, 2017 solar eclipse was 98% in Clark County, WA, but this picture seems to have been taken earlier.

# 27- Living room in new house in Woodland with Devonte using dog as a cushion for reading. Again, this is a carefully staged photo, most likely shot from a ladder or standing on a chair. The furniture in this room is not the same furniture that was in the West Linn living room from years earlier and the room looks immaculate. Room looks very grown up for a household of kids in their early teens.

#73- Jeremiah and Devonte with playing cards, wine glasses, a paint tin and orbital sander on an outdoor deck. I've seen this deck before and believe this is the West Linn house. But what's up with pictures of kids with alcoholic beverage glasses?

#77- Nice, relatively recent picture of Devonte and Jeremiah. They both look happy and relaxed in this portrait. The smiles appear genuine and not as forced as in some of the other posed pictures.

#79- Abigail, chicken in front of greenhouse with snow and paper whites. Taken within the last three months.

#81- Jeremiah, Devonte and Markis in the 2003 GMC Yukon. Notice that both Jeremiah and Devonte are wearing seat belts.

#82. Devonte with seedlings, taken March 2018 in Woodland living room.

There's still more new pictures in there, but I don't have comments for all of them.

I was abused as a child, I look genuinely happy in many photos. Some of them I was. I was having a really great time on the beach with my brothers, at my birthday party, etc. It does not mean that hours later I didn't experience horror. And some photos I look happy, but I was afraid, and trying to look happy.

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[gcharlie]

Um, a chicken on the head while eating waffles.

Have to wonder how many bird droppings took place during this photo shoot.

 

[bluesneakers]

Um, a chicken on the head while eating waffles.

Have to wonder how many bird droppings took place during this photo shoot.

View attachment 132627

I love this photo. Chicken and waffles. This is something I would do.

 

[staunchcharacter]

There has been no talk about a genetic condition, so I don´t think so.
There might have been issues with his mother during pregnancy though.

I know I’ve seen reference to the kids having special needs or disabilities. I don’t have a source right now but I know I read it somewhere. I did not see any specifics though. I’m just speculating. IMO


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