CA - Harvey Weinstein trial on Sexual Harassment #metoo *Guilty in CA, NY Appeal*

[otto]

It is like you want to blame everyone but the rapist. Ridiculous.

Ridiculous. Questioning is not blaming.

 

[otto]

So a teacher who is manipulated by a student, it's not the teacher's fault if he or she gives in and has sex with a student? Really. I find that reprehensible.

We're not talking about children, teachers, and the school system, but there are several threads about male and female teachers violating professional ethics and criminal code to take advantage of children.

 

[otto]

And if financial compensation is the only option, the person should still walk away? When the legal justice system fails, what is a victim supposed to do, just shrug and walk away?

If the victim does not report the incident, the justice system cannot fail the victim. I would think that accepting money in exchange for tolerating sexual assault would be equivalent to adding insult to injury, but clearly not everyone agrees.

 

[kaen]

If the victim does not report the incident, the justice system cannot fail the victim. I would think that accepting money in exchange for tolerating sexual assault would be equivalent to adding insult to injury, but clearly not everyone agrees.

The justice system has failed women for eons. Remember they were property in the eyes of the law. Remember when men could not be accused of rape of a spouse. Remember when there were no rape shield laws. Remember when a victim's prior sexual history could be testified to in open court. Remember when how a woman was dressed could be used in court to justify her rape. Remember when LEO would suggest that a woman just go home and not tell anyone b/c it would be better. Remember when a man beat his wife and was not charged with assault. Remember when a woman who went to a business meeting for a job and was assaulted was questioned for being silent and accepting a settlement b/c she feared her career would be in ruins, oh wait, that still happens.

If you can't get justice in court, maybe you would take a payout. Of the women who accused Bill O'Reilly of harassment, do you know how many still don't have jobs? Many of them would be better off just getting on their back and accepting his assaults rather than having no job and no prospects but going to the police/HR. The fact that some were compensated is the only thing that makes them financially solvent at this point. I wish compensation didn't happen but the law and many citizens of this country still don't have the interests of all citizens at heart yet.

 

[otto]

The justice system has failed women for eons. Remember they were property in the eyes of the law. Remember when men could not be accused of rape of a spouse. Remember when there were no rape shield laws. Remember when a victim's prior sexual history could be testified to in open court. Remember when how a woman was dressed could be used in court to justify her rape. Remember when LEO would suggest that a woman just go home and not tell anyone b/c it would be better. Remember when a man beat his wife and was not charged with assault. Remember when a woman who went to a business meeting for a job and was assaulted was questioned for being silent and accepting a settlement b/c she feared her career would be in ruins, oh wait, that still happens.

If you can't get justice in court, maybe you would take a payout. Of the women who accused Bill O'Reilly of harassment, do you know how many still don't have jobs? Many of them would be better off just getting on their back and accepting his assaults rather than having no job and no prospects but going to the police/HR. The fact that some were compensated is the only thing that makes them financially solvent at this point. I wish compensation didn't happen but the law and many citizens of this country still don't have the interests of all citizens at heart yet.

The justice system gets some things right, and other not. No group of people or type of victim is excluded.

 

[kaen]

Ridiculous. I'm not blaming anyone. I am looking at all side of this debate. As long as we all realize that this is a debate, and not a learning moment, we'll all be on the same page. I've been advocating for victims on this forum for a very long time, but that does not mean that I cannot question why someone views financial compensation as a reason to tolerate sexual assault. In fact, I view accepting financial compensation in exchange for sexual assault as the worst thing that could be done on behalf of victims. Not only does it communicate to the offender that the assault was worth a handful of money, but it also leaves the door open for decades of additional victims. That point seems to be lost on the strident viewpoint of emotional responses determined to educate.

No, not emotional and not determined to educate. Funny, that you need to throw well constructed arguments into the emotional bin in a way that appears condescending.

 

[kaen]

The justice system gets some things right, and other not. No group of people or type of victim is excluded.

Not really. Many groups have felt on the losing side of the justice system getting it right from an institutional and societal perspective.


When they don't get it right, it seems odd that one would question why some would seek a remedy that includes financial compensation.

 

[otto]

No, not emotional and not determined to educate. Funny, that you need to throw well constructed arguments into the emotional bin in a way that appears condescending.

Funny that well constructed debate perspectives receive responses about getting educated.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

rsbm

I hope I’m misinterpreting the intent of your statement. It’s still happening today and it’s still called abuse of power.

The person in the role of authority is the one in the wrong for wielding it in sexually abusive ways. Also most schools have rules against any sort of sexual anything (coerced or otherwise) with students.

The burden of proof does NOT rest on the victim’s shoulders. (Is it up to an arson victim to prove who set the fire and how? Is it up to the arson victim to prove he didn’t set the fire himself?)

The burden of proof lies with police, prosecutors, school administrations, courts, etc. — in other words, it lies in the positions of power with the authority to help uphold and defend the rule and the spirit of law, both civil and criminal.

I'm wondering whether post-secondary institutions are going to open that door as well. I don't think it's any secret that thirty years ago professors assigned grades based on whether their advances were rejected or accepted, but will victims come forward if their grades were boosted because of a sexual relationship with a professor? Can victims prove that their grades were lowered because they refused sexual advances?

[emoji202]MOO

 

[otto]

rsbm

I hope I’m misinterpreting the intent of your statement. It’s still happening today and it’s still called abuse of power.

The person in the role of authority is the one in the wrong for wielding it in sexually abusive ways. Also most schools have rules against any sort of nonprofessional sexual anything (coerced or otherwise) with students.

The burden of proof does NOT rest on the victim’s shoulders. (Is it up to an arson victim to prove who set the fire and how? Is it up to the arson victim to prove he didn’t set the fire himself?)

The burden of proof lies with police, prosecutors, school administrations, courts, etc. — in other words, it lies in the positions of power with the authority to help uphold and defend the rule and the spirit of law, both civil and criminal.
[emoji202]MOO

My comment was asking whether victims from thirty years ago in post-secondary institutions will come forward. I haven't heard anything in the news about it yet, but we all know that they exist. If you understood something other than this, then yes there is a misunderstanding.

 

[bluesneakers]

My comment was asking whether victims from thirty years ago in post-secondary institutions will come forward. I haven't heard anything in the news about it yet, but we all know that they exist. If you understood something other than this, then yes there is a misunderstanding.

If they are victims it hardly matters what their grades were. No woman has to hold up her grades as proof she was raped or assaulted.

 

[bluesneakers]

If the victim does not report the incident, the justice system cannot fail the victim. I would think that accepting money in exchange for tolerating sexual assault would be equivalent to adding insult to injury, but clearly not everyone agrees.

The legal justice fails victims again and again. Women see this and understand it, and they know the repercussions they will face if they come forward. Do you understand why victims don't report rape or assault? I thought everyone already knew this.

Want To Know Why Women Don't Report Sexual Assault?

Remember when Rihanna needed medical treatment after Chris Brown beat her, and hospital photographs of her injuries were broadcast all over the internet? Remember when a judge told Kesha she couldn't break her contract with a man she said drugged and raped her? Remember when, time and time again, rapists were excused because their victims wore "skimpy" clothing? Remember the women who reported what happened, then lost their jobs? The women who were publicly identified and called liars on the internet? The women who just want to be believed?

The Criminal Justice System: Statistics
The Vast Majority of Perpetrators Will Not Go to Jail or Prison

Of the sexual violence crimes not reported to police from 2005-2010, the victim gave the following reasons for not reporting:

20% feared retaliation
13% believed the police would not do anything to help
13% believed it was a personal matter
8% reported to a different official
8% believed it was not important enough to report
7% did not want to get the perpetrator in trouble
2% believed the police could not do anything to help
30% gave another reason, or did not cite one reason

 

[otto]

The legal justice fails victims again and again. Women see this and understand it, and they know the repercussions they will face if they come forward. Do you understand why victims don't report rape or assault? I thought everyone already knew this.

Want To Know Why Women Don't Report Sexual Assault?

The Criminal Justice System: Statistics
The Vast Majority of Perpetrators Will Not Go to Jail or Prison

Casey Anthony's daughter is a good example of failed justice. I rather doubt that women see this failed justice any differently than men.

I think it's well known that some victims prefer to put things behind them and let them go rather than spend a couple of years in the court system. Does that mean that no one should ask questions about modern justice of guilt by social media, why accepting money for sexual assault is not adding insult to injury, and if there would be far fewer victims if the early assaults had been reported to authorities?

 

[bluesneakers]

Casey Anthony's daughter is a good example of failed justice. I rather doubt that women see this failed justice any differently than men.

I think it's well known that some victims prefer to put things behind them and let them go rather than spend a couple of years in the court system. Does that mean that no one should ask questions about modern justice of guilt by social media, why accepting money for sexual assault is not adding insult to injury, and if there would be far fewer victims if the early assaults had been reported to authorities?

You think it's the responsibility of the victim to stop the predator? No, it's not. How many future assaults would be stopped if the rapist would just simply stop raping? That's the more obvious answer. Women shouldn't have to do what men say in order to not be raped. They shouldn't be raped, period, and it's cruel to expect a victim to not only suffer the rape and its aftermath, but then have the guilt of all future rapes on her shoulders? No.

You keep talking about these women who receive payment in exchange for being raped - have I missed the links you provided that support your accusations?

 

[otto]

You think it's the responsibility of the victim to stop the predator? No, it's not. How many future assaults would be stopped if the rapist would just simply stop raping? That's the more obvious answer. Women shouldn't have to do what men say in order to not be raped. They shouldn't be raped, period, and it's cruel to expect a victim to not only suffer the rape and its aftermath, but then have the guilt of all future rapes on her shoulders? No.

You keep talking about these women who receive payment in exchange for being raped - have I missed the links you provided that support your accusations?

BBM

Where did you get that from? I'm not the enemy here.

We know that criminals will continue to do what they do until they are arrested. If you are a victim of a criminal activity, and you chose to remain silent and negotiate financial compensation with the criminal, you are in fact leaving the door open for more people to be victimized.

I have mentioned sexual assault, not rape. Did you miss this article: Harvey Weinstein Paid Off Sexual Harassment Accusers for Decades

"Mr. Weinstein has reached at least eight settlements with women"

Victims can be part of the problem, or part of the solution. Were victims who chose to remain silent, and who accepted money in exchange for sexual harassment, part of the solution?

 

[Fairy1]

Casey Anthony's daughter is a good example of failed justice. I rather doubt that women see this failed justice any differently than men.

I think it's well known that some victims prefer to put things behind them and let them go rather than spend a couple of years in the court system. Does that mean that no one should ask questions about modern justice of guilt by social media, why accepting money for sexual assault is not adding insult to injury, and if there would be far fewer victims if the early assaults had been reported to authorities?

Caylee is a very poor comparison here, IMO.

The women and men who have been victims of sexual assault and harassment in the entertainment industry had not only their financial concerns, but their careers hanging in the balance. Their actual futures. They were preyed upon by powerful people who could make or break them and influence their very livelihoods.

 

[kaen]

Victims are victims. They are not part of the problem and are not compelled to be part of the solution. Maybe if people created an atmosphere that is not shaming and offers support rather than judgment, more women would come forward rather than settle for a monetary justice.

These women did not accept money in exchange for sexual harassment. They were harassed and got redress through financial settlements. It is not an exchange unless the terms are known from the outset.

 

[Poppyflower]

The justice system has failed women for eons. Remember they were property in the eyes of the law. Remember when men could not be accused of rape of a spouse. Remember when there were no rape shield laws. Remember when a victim's prior sexual history could be testified to in open court. Remember when how a woman was dressed could be used in court to justify her rape. Remember when LEO would suggest that a woman just go home and not tell anyone b/c it would be better. Remember when a man beat his wife and was not charged with assault. Remember when a woman who went to a business meeting for a job and was assaulted was questioned for being silent and accepting a settlement b/c she feared her career would be in ruins, oh wait, that still happens.

I remember.

I'm sorry it is still happening.

 

[kaen]

Caylee is a very poor comparison here, IMO.

The women and men who have been victims of sexual assault and harassment in the entertainment industry had not only their financial concerns, but their careers hanging in the balance. Their actual futures. They were preyed upon by powerful people who could make or break them and influence their very livelihoods.

We can look at the women who were harassed by Bill O-Reilly. How many have been employed since they had issues with O-Reilly? Look at what Megan Kelly says about how women who spoke out were treated: http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/megyn-kelly-bill-oreilly-sexual-harassment-1202596354/

 

[Fairy1]

The justice system has failed women for eons. Remember they were property in the eyes of the law. Remember when men could not be accused of rape of a spouse. Remember when there were no rape shield laws. Remember when a victim's prior sexual history could be testified to in open court. Remember when how a woman was dressed could be used in court to justify her rape. Remember when LEO would suggest that a woman just go home and not tell anyone b/c it would be better. Remember when a man beat his wife and was not charged with assault. Remember when a woman who went to a business meeting for a job and was assaulted was questioned for being silent and accepting a settlement b/c she feared her career would be in ruins, oh wait, that still happens.

If you can't get justice in court, maybe you would take a payout. Of the women who accused Bill O'Reilly of harassment, do you know how many still don't have jobs? Many of them would be better off just getting on their back and accepting his assaults rather than having no job and no prospects but going to the police/HR. The fact that some were compensated is the only thing that makes them financially solvent at this point. I wish compensation didn't happen but the law and many citizens of this country still don't have the interests of all citizens at heart yet.

So interesting you would bring this up. I'm currently reading a book about Frankie Stewart Silver. She was hanged for murdering her (most likely) abusive husband back in 1831.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankie_Stewart_Silver

No way to know what really happened, but I truly believe Charlie beat the crap out of Frankie regularly and was trying to kill her and their baby that night. If he had, he wouldn't have suffered any punishment. Frankie and their daughter, Nancy, would have been considered his "property."