Identified! CA - Huntington Beach, WhtFem 40UFCA, 18-30, poss name Andrea, Apr'90 - Andrea Kuiper

[scrambledeggs]

it's the kind of thing that's so hard to judge from just a couple of photos. A slight difference of camera angle or head tilt can totally change the appearance.

Just wanted to add my two cents re this.

I know there's been a lot of mention re some of the noses not being 'snubby' enough. I went to school with a girl who had a really obvious snubby nose like this 'Andrea' - was teased and everything the poor girl it was that obvious.

I got out some photo's of her today to have a look and honestly, in only one photo you can kind of see it - all other photos it wasn't too obvious. Probably just by tilting her head slightly it looks entirely different. I'm guessing it would be the same for other features such as jawlines.

Just something to ponder for what it's worth.

 

[Roselvr]

Alicia Bernice Markovich http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/51dfpa.html

Amber Carrie Potts* http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/312dfon.html
Canadian

Amy Billig http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/18dffl.html
http://www.freewebs.com/findamybillig/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Help-Find-Amy-Billig/205088089544267

Andria Ann Bailey https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/5814/232

Andrea Darlene Allen https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/17501/12/

Andrea Durham http://doenetwork.org/cases/132dffl.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/durham_andrea.html

Andrea Jean Coyle http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/coyle_andrea.html

Andrea Joy Hall http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/hall_andrea.html

Angelica Longoria* - https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/6308

Aundria Michelle Bowman (Finger print rule out) http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/184dfmi.html

Christina Hermert http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1062dfdeu.html

Christina Lee White https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/2785/0/

Christina Monteiro https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/7827/72

Christine Miller - located

Cynthia Carmack https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/poster/4561
http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/...Ohio-Missing-Persons/Missing-Children/Carmack

Cynthia Lorraine Perry https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/8281/4/
she had a heart tattoo on her left arm

Dean Marie Pyle Peters http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/8dfmi.html
http://missingme.2007.angelfire.com/peters_1dfmi.html

Deborah A. McCall https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/8253/4/

Diann Lynn Tatum* https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/7934/1/

Donna Barnhill* https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/2538/0/
A mole / birthmark on her right arm. Prior to her disappearance, she had never been to a dentist. Donna's nose is boxier

Doreen Jane Vincent http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/87dfct.html

Elizabeth A. Eisel** https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/11854/0/
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/e/eisel_elizabeth.html Eisel was last seen in Washington in 1985. Eisel's adoptive mother died in 1977 and Eisel began to show interest in locating her birth mother afterward.
After attending the University of Minnesota she moved to Orange County, California, and lived with a relative.

Ellen Linda Akers* https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/5783/0/

Frances Morales https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/12750/8/
*Hispanic/Latino

Hazel Klug https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/1100/0/

Ilene Beth Misheloff http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/290dfca.html

Jackie Boyer* http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3016dfca.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/boyer_jackie.html

Jennifer Lynn Pandos http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/376dfva.html

Jinisina Stonehouse: http://doenetwork.org/cases/1268dfon.html
Also mentions four teeth treated. From Canada though.

Jonelle Renee Matthews http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/198dfco.html

Justine Gabrielle Flynn*** http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/f/flynn_justine.html
http://dojapp.doj.ca.gov/missing/detail.asp?FCN=4679314731493

Karen Lynn Zendrosky https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/4592/0/

Kelly Morrissey https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/6427/0/

Launa Renee http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/merritt_launa.html scar on abdomen

Lois Marie Hanna* http://www.missing-u.ca/MPDetail.aspx?PersonID=295
Canadian

Margaret Jane Chauncy https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/8368/0/
*has 4 upper front teeth that are capped with bridge work link. Andrea has regular caps

Maria Gabriela Madina http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/medina_maria.html

Marjorie Alice Knox* https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/6270/0/
*Has a mole

Martha Wes Dunn http://doenetwork.org/cases/286dftx.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/dunn_martha.html

Mary Ann Hogland - McCluskey http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/hogland-mccluskey_mary.html
http://doenetwork.org/cases/1247dfca.html

Meredith Ann Medina http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/medina_meredith.html

Michelle Marie Ashley Nicholaou* http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/n/nicholaou_michelle.html

Pamela Lynne Neal https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/8358/0/
*pierced ears - scar on her chin and hand

Patricia Anne Osborn https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/14132/4
Biracial- presumed victim of Gary Ridgeway

Patricia Schmidt https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/974/0/

Paulette Susan Jaster http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/108dfmi.html

Rhonda Lynn Yocom https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/6837/0/
Asian or Pacific Islander *tattoo

Shannon Potter https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/1868/8

Sherry Young https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/3137
*Pic of her as small child

Sheryl Tillinghast https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/3259/0/

Stacey Kelekoma https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/4590/0/

Susan Anne Swedell https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/335/0/

Susan Caldwell** https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/7028/113/
*No photo Seattle

Stefanie Stroh https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/15153/0/

Tamara Dawn Porrin https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/7919/0/

Tammy Mahoney https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/7601/0/

Theresa M. Fischbach https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/13437/0/
tattoo of a cross between thumb and index finger

Vicki Sundgaard https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/12044/0/

Wendy Jamie Abrams-Nishikai http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/a/abrams-nishikai_wendy.html

 

[zwiebel]

Gosh, you haven't been twiddling your thumbs and doing nothing Roselvr!

 

[amber1]

Thank you so much for the rule out list....I wish we had more legit rule out lists for UIDs and Missing persons. I would make PMs so much easier to do. I know there's CODIS, NAMUS and personal sites, but it would be nice to have an actual legit and updated list!

 

[ebonydarkness]

Regarding the pronunciation of the name Andrea:

I know someone from middle school with a very "creative" spelling of the name, similar to the phonetic representations used here. I prefer not to disclose of it because a google search turns up one of her social networking sites as the first result. The stress is placed on the second syllable instead of the first. She has an English/Scottish/Scandinavian surname. This was in the Greater Vancouver area of British Columbia, Canada, right across the border from Washington state, where Andrea Doe is possibly from. So as far as I know, this "Awn-dray-uh" pronunciation is used in the Pacific Northwest as well.

 

[Roselvr]

Thank you so much for the rule out list....I wish we had more legit rule out lists for UIDs and Missing persons. I would make PMs so much easier to do. I know there's CODIS, NAMUS and personal sites, but it would be nice to have an actual legit and updated list!

It's every gal that has been suggested since the post started.
Next step is to figure out who needs to be submitted.

Regarding the pronunciation of the name Andrea:

I know someone from middle school with a very "creative" spelling of the name, similar to the phonetic representations used here. I prefer not to disclose of it because a google search turns up one of her social networking sites as the first result. The stress is placed on the second syllable instead of the first. She has an English/Scottish/Scandinavian surname. This was in the Greater Vancouver area of British Columbia, Canada, right across the border from Washington state, where Andrea Doe is possibly from. So as far as I know, this "Awn-dray-uh" pronunciation is used in the Pacific Northwest as well.

I found another spelling Andrya last week.

 

[Roselvr]

Does anyone remember the actual address of where she was hit?

 

[zwiebel]

The only info I can find besides Pacific Coast Highway, Huntington Beach, is this post by momtolil, Roselvr.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Huntington Beach - WhtFem 40UFCA, 18-30, Maybe named Andrea, Apr'90

 

[MrsTigglesworth]

Does anyone remember the actual address of where she was hit?

I re-read, but could not find anything in particular other than west of Newland... Newland seems to be the two block North to South area from Warner to Slater to Talbert Aves. East to West, from Beach Blvd to Newland Street. The area is about 8 or 9 blocks east from the Pacific Coast Highway.

This may link:
https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msi...ll=33.70949,-117.984924&spn=0.076397,0.169086

When I went walking around the PCH West of there, was when I found the little strip mall with the music club that she might have visited (was punk back in 1990 before changing owners). There is a super mex in that strip with an address of 17210 Pacific Coast Highway. This would be at the Northern end of the two block area probably considered "West of Newland". The numbers go up as you travel South, so I think the numbers of where she was found are PROBABLY between 17000 and 18000. Just a guess.

 

[Ambercat]

Pacific Coast Highway intersects with Newland closer to Huntington Beach’s southern border with Newport Beach (as opposed to its northern border with Seal Beach on PCH). If you are traveling northwest on Pacific Coast Highway from Newport Beach [in my case, going to Long Beach] on PCH you will pass a power plant, then intersect with Newland, then pass the trailer park where “Andrea” stayed prior to her death. I think this area of PCH by the trailer park (west of Newland) is where the accident took place. I actually have some photos of the area that I took a while back before I moved. This stretch of PCH doesn’t have that much on it and had even less back in 1990 (the big Hilton and Hyatt hotels on PCH weren’t there back then).

On Pacific Coast Highway, heading west, before Newland Street.

Stopped at the traffic light on PCH at Newland. I believe the area in front of the light (past the green Jeep, where the two trucks and silver car are are located) is where the accident took place.

The trailer park at Newland and PCH, where Andrea was staying before the accident.

http://binged.it/Yn6glb

Coincidentally, there is a street called San Andreas Lane in the trailer park.

 

[carbuff]

<snipped>
Coincidentally, there is a street called San Andreas Lane in the trailer park.

I wonder if that's where she got the name. Picked it out as an alias.

 

[MrsTigglesworth]

Thank you so much!!! I was thinking west of the area called Newland, not the street Newland! Great to have the local insight! ( and photos!)

 

[rosesfromangels]

Pacific Coast Highway intersects with Newland closer to Huntington Beach’s southern border with Newport Beach (as opposed to its northern border with Seal Beach on PCH). If you are traveling northwest on Pacific Coast Highway from Newport Beach [in my case, going to Long Beach] on PCH you will pass a power plant, then intersect with Newland, then pass the trailer park where “Andrea” stayed prior to her death. I think this area of PCH by the trailer park (west of Newland) is where the accident took place. I actually have some photos of the area that I took a while back before I moved. This stretch of PCH doesn’t have that much on it and had even less back in 1990 (the big Hilton and Hyatt hotels on PCH weren’t there back then).

On Pacific Coast Highway, heading west, before Newland Street.

Stopped at the traffic light on PCH at Newland. I believe the area in front of the light (past the green Jeep, where the two trucks and silver car are are located) is where the accident took place.

The trailer park at Newland and PCH, where Andrea was staying before the accident.

http://binged.it/Yn6glb

Coincidentally, there is a street called San Andreas Lane in the trailer park.

So is this a "trailer park" or a place to park/store your RV? (Big difference)

 

[CarlK90245]

So is this a "trailer park" or a place to park/store your RV? (Big difference)

There is an RV parking lot adjacent to the "trailer park".

 

[Roselvr]

The only info I can find besides Pacific Coast Highway, Huntington Beach, is this post by momtolil, Roselvr.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Huntington Beach - WhtFem 40UFCA, 18-30, Maybe named Andrea, Apr'90

I spent time the other day rereading & grabbing a bunch of posts. I'll post what I have so that it's easier for everyone to see. Hopefully it will let me post it.

I'm going to take what's needed for the FB page. Trying to gather all the needed info from 13 pages lol (690 posts)

Pacific Coast Highway intersects with Newland closer to Huntington Beach&#8217;s southern border with Newport Beach (as opposed to its northern border with Seal Beach on PCH). If you are traveling northwest on Pacific Coast Highway from Newport Beach [in my case, going to Long Beach] on PCH you will pass a power plant, then intersect with Newland, then pass the trailer park where &#8220;Andrea&#8221; stayed prior to her death. I think this area of PCH by the trailer park (west of Newland) is where the accident took place. I actually have some photos of the area that I took a while back before I moved. This stretch of PCH doesn&#8217;t have that much on it and had even less back in 1990 (the big Hilton and Hyatt hotels on PCH weren&#8217;t there back then).


On Pacific Coast Highway, heading west, before Newland Street.


Stopped at the traffic light on PCH at Newland. I believe the area in front of the light (past the green Jeep, where the two trucks and silver car are are located) is where the accident took place.

The trailer park at Newland and PCH, where Andrea was staying before the accident.

http://binged.it/Yn6glb

Coincidentally, there is a street called San Andreas Lane in the trailer park.

Thanks for the pics. Any idea if the lights were in back then?

I wonder if that's where she got the name. Picked it out as an alias.

Something tells me this is MM's Andrea. If so; she was already using the name.

 

[Roselvr]

Hi fellow sleuthers..... I lived in Seattle during the mid 1980's and was heavily involved in what we called the Batcave Scene but it would be called Goth now-a-days. I think we were the first kids to do the whole Goth thing, seriously. It all started in Seattle with us in the early 1980's. The weather is conducive to dressing that way! I knew a girl who was on her own. A throw away kid. I was always nice to her while the others were not. Her name WAS Andrea but she pronounced it as Awn Dray Uh. Everyone used to call her Big Mouth Andrea. Not me. I tried to be nice to everyone. I actually let her sleep in my big walk in closet at my apartment on Capitol Hill. She did have a habit of making things up. She would be exactly this girls age when she was hit by the cars in the 90's or 1990. She had rather large, uh hmmm....breasts. I am gay so no interest in ladies except as friends and to make them look their best! I never knew what ever happened to her and no one else in our group does either. She always said she was going to go to California eventually and she also told me she would kill her self when she was ready. Now this girl WOULD have worn a ring made out of hair. She even gave me a bracelet that I gave to my mother but since mom passed, I have it again. I think it's a real possibility this could be her. Back when I knew her, her hair was dyed black like the rest of us and she had brown eyes. She used to talk about her parents being well off and Italian. How she got to Seattle and into our Batcaver scene I'll never know. I didn't care so much back then, but I sure do now. What do I do in a case like this? I never knew her last name or anything! I want to help but I fear all I am doing is telling you all about some girl I knew who was a throw away or runaway girl back in the mid 80's. This makes me feel so bad. I should have cared more than I did. At least I did more for her than anyone else though. <sigh> Use this info as you will and if you need to ask me anything, please do. I am sorry if have broken any etiquette on this site but as I said, I'm a newbie. I think one or two people on this site know me from other missing/unidentified persons sites where I go by BooneH. That's all I have to say for now. Jeez, I probably haven't helped at all and I was hoping so hard that I could help! I would just die if it WAS Andrea though. Well, take care all - MontanaMan

fascinating. looking at MontanaMan's post, there is an old post still available describing the club scene where a "Big Mouth Andrea" is referenced. there appear to be 2 Andreas mentioned an in one post one Andrea is described as a throwaway kid from Gig Harbor. probably not the same as Big Mouth Andrea:

The names and people I remember most of all from City Beat and in some cases still know, are: Mercy (Mercy knows!), Lee and Andrea, Chad, Debbie with the ball toothpick eyelashes, Ray Smiley, Big Mouth Andrea, Roxy - of course, Michael, Mateo, Mario Diaz, Morgan, Oozin' Susan, Pauline or "Sprawline" as we called her, Boy Mike of course...

City Beat Seattle, Washington

Ha! That was me who wrote that above quote quite a while ago, Webrocket! It was in reference to all of us Batcavers who hung out at Citybeat together. Citybeat was an underage club in Seattle where we all hung out at and danced all night and I hate to say......did a lot of drugs. I am out of that scene and have been for so many years I can't count them. It was a fun time when I was that age but I'm a grown man now. Those names were all of our names and nicknames. I was one of the 'two Brian's'. We were known as Brian and Brian and the other Brian is still my best friend and lives in Seattle still. So does Ray, Probably Roxy and perhaps a few others. Mario Diaz is now doing commercials on TV and lives in LA/West Hollywood. I'm not sure what happened to half those people but I do know where a few of them are and they are safe. Andrea on the other hand, I feel was never safe and I don't know what ever happened to her. Someone above also asked me if I have the bracelet Andrea gave to me still. I do. It is not made of hair though. It is a very strange bracelet. Looks like it is probably from the 1600's or 1700's and is from India or the Far East. It is definitely old and an antique. That is why I gave to my mother. So it would never be lost in my various moves around the country. Mom never wore it ever and neither did I. It's possible that Andrea's hair or DNA is on it still. Or is it? I don't know these things. I just know that the Andrea being talked about on this thread could be my Andrea from Seattle. I'm not sure where to go from here. If any of you have suggestions for me or anything, please do tell me or email me. I know it's probably silly to put out my email address on here but if it solves this case and this Andrea ends up being my Andrea, it's all worth it. thedukeofhelena@yahoo.com aka BooneH aka MontanaMan

Thanks, by the way to Webrocket for helping me out and welcoming me. I really appreciate that. I will do whatever I can to help in any and every case. I know it's obvious I'm a newbie but hopefully I'm helping with this case and not just creating a lead that will go no where. My gut feeling is that I am right on target with this case. Thanks again and take care everyone.

Hi, MontanaMan, and welcome. I'm from Bozeman originally . Living in the Boston area now.

If your friend pronounced her name Awn Dray Ah, she is almost certainly Italian. That's now they pronounce it in the northeast.

Hello Carbuff! I lived in Bozeman as a very little kid. My father was the Technical Manager for Mountain Bell as it was called in those days. He was transferred from Helena where I was born, to Bozeman when I was only about a year old. Then he got transferred back to Helena and we have lived here ever since. Lost both my parents in 2003 and 2007. First mom from cancer then dad from what I would call extreme depression and a very broken heart. I miss them horribly. Now I am living in the family home here in Helena by myself and trying to deal with having this darn terminal disease but I won't let it get me. My mind is too strong for that. I just keep telling myself I'm not going anywhere and I have too much to do still, like help other people find their loved ones who have gone missing or help ID unknown victims of homicide, etc. My main goal is to help those who hurt, because I know how it feels too, and it's not fun or pretty.

Thanks for saying hello, Carbuff and I hope you are enjoying Boston! I'm just not much a city person and that is why I ended up getting out of that culture I was in back in Seattle and coming back to good old Montana and getting my life together in the wide open spaces and practically non existent population here. I hope that we can all somehow help identify this Andrea girl and all of the others. I looked at the bracelet that Andrea gave me today and I have been very careful not to touch it with my hands, fingers, etc. Using gloves! I hope that if this girl is one of the two Andrea's that I knew in Seattle, that we can get her identified and close this case. Take care my sleuthing friends and thanks for being so nice and supportive to me as a newbie and a rather 'odd' person. It's very much appreciated and I can feel it in my heart. Thanks again.

MontanaMan, it might be a good idea to contact the investigators. They might be able to ask you some questions that could jog your memory. And they are probably holding some information back for their investigation that you might have the key to help them unlock this case if indeed you knew this woman.
Here's the contact information:
Investigators
If you have any information concerning this woman's identity, please contact: Orange County Coroner's Office
714-647-7400
You may remain anonymous when submitting information to any agency.

NCIC Number: U-416598679
Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.

Thank you so much for joining Websleuths!

Kimster,
Thank you so much for making the suggestion to me. I wasn't sure if it was okay for me to contact The Orange County Coroners Office or if I was supposed to let the moderator or someone more advanced than I do that. Oh, uff da! I will go ahead and contact them today and see if anything fits. I know enough about her that I could possibly hold the key. I also have her bracelet still as I said. This whole thing has been making me think of the other Andrea I knew too, although she pronounced her name the regular way. Last thing I knew, that one was in Hawaii but I know enough about her too if it ended up being her instead. Oh, uff da! She did kind of go off the deep edge after our friend and her best friend Lee passed away.

Well, thanks for the advice and as a newbie, I probably sound like a total dork. I just wasn't sure what the protocol was. Thanks for clearing that up for me and I will call Orange County today. I sincerely appreciate any and all help. Take care Kimster and everyone else and thanks! - MontanaMan

Hi all,
Contacted Orange County Coroners Office and talked to a very nice detective there and he was able to ask me some pertinent questions that I think certainly helped and narrowed this down. It's a real possibility this is the same Andrea I knew in Seattle back in the late 80's. He has my name and info and we will be in touch and will get this figured out.

Thanks a lot to everyone who has tried to help on this case and hopefully we'll be able to identify this JD and get some closure. Thanks again to Kimster for encouraging me to contact Orange County. Big burden off my chest and maybe for them and the Websleuth community at large.

the one downside of this being "Big Mouth Andrea" is that according to Doe

"Her teeth showed signs of previous orthodontics and she had received dental care shortly before her death. Expensive porcelain dental work. Restorations on back of top front 4 teeth. "

they do not define "shortly" but MountainMan said Awn Dray Uh was in Seattle in the mid-80's and this "Andrea" was killed in April 1990. I would certainly think that "recent" dental work is less than 5 yrs so I don't know where Awn Dray Uh would have gotten the money for expensive dentristry while the "Andrea" who was struck by the car had no money to her name.

Your correct about that webrocket. Thing is, she DID come from a family that had money. I know that as she told me many a time and her teeth HAD been worked on and it was very nice work, although I didn't look at it or ask about it back then. She just happened to mention that she used to have really crooked teeth and that her supposedly wealthy ( and I think they really might have been ) parents had had them fixed before she ran away to Seattle to become one of us. I still think there's a giant chance this is her and I have spent many a night here the past month or so thinking about this and chastising myself for not being there for her more than I was. I could have helped her out more than I did. I didn't have the most stable life right then but I could have and should have asked her some more questions. Also, there is other ways of getting money for runaway girls like her and I am sure you know what I mean. Don't think she wouldn't have done those things because she likely would have. She could be desperate at times. In fact, the dental thing is something I talked to the detective about in Orange County. This is a really hard case with me not knowing her last name or ever even asking her. She was just Andrea to me. And she always will be.

Hey folks - Just saw the newer illustration that Carl posted. There is now an even stronger resemblance to the Andrea I knew in Seattle back in the day. In fact, this is kind of creeping me out. I will say this though, in this newer illustration, she looks younger than what I would picture my old friend Andrea aka Big Mouth Andrea ( the other kids in our group of street kids/Goth kids called her Spaghetti Woman too, which ties in to the Italian thing ). This really could be her and I feel horrible because I don't remember her last name nor do I think I ever knew her last name. The other people/kids in our group could be cruel sometimes as young people can often be. I never liked the names they called her and I thought she was a sweet girl. That's why I sort of took her under my wing so to speak and gave her a place to stay. I'm at a total loss as to what more I can do. Everyone else I know who knew her is either gone as in dead or has gone on with their lives and I have no idea where any of them are now. I have talked to the detective at Orange County and there isn't much they can do without more info than what I have. My fear that this is her has trebled with viewing this newest illustration of her. I wish I could do more and I will keep trying my hardest to do so. I'm trying to track down some of the people I knew back in those days who also knew Andrea. One of them has got to remember her well enough to know her last name or something we can use to identify her. It's the nose and the eyes mostly that just drill into me when viewing this sketch and as I said, I'm pretty convinced. She just looks a bit younger than my Andrea would look, I think. Then again, I never saw Andrea without her pounds of Goth make up on as we all wore back then. No one would ever recognize me as the same Goth kid that was around back then. I look like an old Montana mountain man now. Well, I'll keep working on my end and if anyone has anything to add or ask, please do so. Thanks to all of you and we WILL get this solved one way or another. I have complete faith in all of us here on Websleuths.com. Take care all - BRMc

My friend Andrea aka Big Mouth Andrea had no real accent that I could discern. I grew up very close to the Canadian border in Montana and people tell me I have a very heavy Canadian accent. I don't even know what that would be, but I guess I do since people comment on it a lot. I do say 'eh' a lot, though! Andrea had what I would call a NW accent. She sounded like all of from the extreme NW of the USA sound like. In my opinion, she had to have been from Washington State or near there. The things I know about her for sure are these: She had black hair that was kind of short but long enough that she would rat it out so it looked big, very pale skin, was a bit pudgy in some places, used to wear a lot of makeup and pieces of jewelry hence the bracelet I have that she once gave me. The bracelet looks like a family heirloom or or an antique. It's very old and made of silver and what looks like Ebony. It's a rather big, clunky bracelet. She had no accent except what I would call a NW US accent, she told me once that during the day she worked in Burien ( a suburb of Seattle ) taking care of an older woman. Where she lived, I don't know. I'm not all that sure that Andrea had a real home. I don't think so often times as she never spoke about it and she stayed with me, sleeping in my big walk in closet for a while. She told me she was going to go to California someday and perhaps she did. Likely she did. People had nicknames for her which I have posted before. They were Big Mouth Andrea and Spaghetti Woman. Realize that this was a bunch of street kids and club hoppers of which I was one of in those days. I just didn't call her those names. I called her by her real name which was Andrea which she pronounced Awn-dray-uh. The fact that I have never heard from her again but have heard and know what happened to the rest of those kids and people I hung with back then is odd to me too. What happened to her? How come I don't know what happened to her? Supposedly she also had a reputation for stealing once in a while but she never took anything from me or my apartment. I distinctly remember that when I told the other people I was hanging with that Andrea was staying with my friend Brian and I at our apartment, they gave me a really weird look and warned me that she would steal. As I said, she never did. That's what I know. She liked wearing black alot but we all did. We were probably the first Goth people in the US. The whole scene started in Seattle and Vancouver, BC in the early 80's. So, take from this what you will and I still hope it's not the Andrea I knew but the possibility seems more likely than ever now.

And yes, she had pretty bad Acne which is likely why she also wore so much make up. Sorry, meant to add that to my other post.

Hey carbuff and friends, no I never did think about writing a book about the very early Goth scene in the NW US but now that you mention it, it might be a really good idea. I do have some journalistic background although it needs to be honed again and I would bet there are not many people besides me and a few others who really remember what it was like and didn't become casualties of that time period. I got into drugs and did plenty but if anything, they enhanced my memories instead of damaging me in any way. That's likely because I knew when to stop and I did. Andrea was a friend. I considered her one and she and I did some of those drugs together. I know it's not something a lot of people probably want to hear about but it's the truth and I am an honest man. She could have become a casualty of that culture or she could have done many things. The likeness above of the girl/woman who was hit by the car resembles her a lot and it has been bothering me very much since I don't know what more I can do. Maybe you're right Carbuff. I could certainly write a book on the Seattle and Vancouver and Portland Goth scenes and Club scenes from 1979 on up to 1989 or so. Maybe it would bring more people I used to know out of the woodwork and perhaps one may know what happened to the Andrea I knew. It's something to think about and I thank you for making the comment/suggestion. It is very important for me to find out if this is her or not. If it is, I want to see her put to rest and I will personally do whatever I can to make sure that happens. I want her to have a stone befitting the person she was if it is indeed her. She was a lost girl and not a bad person at all. I'm sure everyone can gather that by now. Take care everyone and have a really great New Year! 2013.....can you believe it?

Hey folks, been reading the latest posts and I will do my best to clarify the Andrea I knew back in our Goth days in Seattle. Webrocket, you asked if I could approximate her age when we met and hung out in SEA together. She would have been somewhere around the age of 16, 17 or 18 when I met her. That's only a guess. I didn't ask her what her real age was back then and she never told any of us. Of course, she wore an extraordinary amount of makeup as we all did back then so it's kind of hard to guess what her age was. I do think she was likely between the ages of 16 to 20 even. She could have been younger or older but with the type of makeup she wore and that most of us wore, we all could look much older than we were. My Andrea had hazel eyes, I do know that and she looked very Italian or an admixture of Italian or perhaps even Middle Eastern such as Jewish, Lebanese, Greek, etc. mixed with a more light skinned ethnicity. I'm olive skinned myself but that doesn't mean much as I am of Scottish, Czech, Norwegian, German and French heritage. Andrea had the same olive skin but she would pale herself out with makeup to get that Goth look that we all were going for. After she left that scene, she could have done anything and gone anywhere. The sketch above by Carl looks like a younger person than I would think of my Andrea as. But then again, I never saw her without a lot of makeup and black clothing that was layered. And I can't forget all the jewelry she used to wear. My feeling is that the Andrea I knew came from a family that had money but either she chose to leave and was a runaway or she possibly could have had parents that didn't care much about her. My Andrea must have had more money earlier in her life as she did have dental work that looked to be quite good and perhaps expensive. It seemed to me that even when we were hanging out together that she had access to money from somewhere since she never asked for any from me or anyone I knew. She was always able to pay her way into the underage clubs that we used to hang out at which were all in Seattle. The Monastery, Skoochie's, City Beat and later, Club Broadway. She wore a lot of silver but we all did. I have no idea where she got it and as I said in an above post, she never seemed to have her own home but she did tell me that she worked taking care of an older woman in Burien and perhaps she lived with her. It makes sense, actually. At this same time period, we had the Green River Serial Killer running around down by Burien and Seatac and Renton. All those area's. I always wondered if Andrea was getting money that way too. By prostitution. I doubt it but I wouldn't rule it out at all. She always seemed very streetwise too. I hope this has helped and if there are any other questions anyone may have for me, just let me know. My impression is more and more gearing towards that this girl is not my Andrea because she looks too young in the sketch but I still can't rule it out. There is a very uncanny resemblance. Especially the eyes and nose. Maybe I just don't want it to be the Andrea I knew and who was a friend during a very bumpy period in my life. But the main goal is getting this young lady identified one way or the other. I know we will all succeed eventually. Thanks everyone and take care. You can call me MountainMan or MontanaMan, Webrocket. Both apply! Cheers.

Montana, back on an earlier thread I found and posted a link about the party scene in Seattle and you said you had authored some of the posts. I went back and it looks like one of your former cohorts, [RB], posted something.

this is what he said (and I'm providing the link again):


Hey, Batcave Brian! I doubt you'll see this but one never knows -- this is [RB] from Helena and then Seattle. You must remember me, as we have quite a lot of history together from these days. I loved City Beat, spend many a night dancing my *advertiser censored** off on MDA and LSD. I too recall both Mercy and Roxy. I also have a surviving mix tape from one of the DJ's, with a kick-*advertiser censored** Divine mix. 'Jungle Jezebel, jungle jezebel'... Oh my God the memories!

Ended up back East from whence I originated, in Savannah GA now. I would not live anywhere else in GA, but Savannah is okay.

City Beat Seattle, Washington

I wonder if he has any recollection of your Andrea?

OMG webrocket. You're a genius! I have been for looking for this particular person for a long, long time. We were the best of friends and we DID go through a lot together. I remember him from here where I live now and from Seattle. I wonder if I can find him in Savannah. I knew he was from Syracuse, NY originally and have looked there but no luck. You just found him for me. Thank you more than ever! He is someone who would also remember the Andrea I have been talking about. I need to talk to him, obviously. Thank you so much for posting the above link and I can;t imagine why I didn't see that myself. Then again, I've been kind of a hermit/loner ever since I left the cities and moved back to Montana. Let me try and get a hold of him and see if he can shed some light on Andrea and what he remembers ( which sounds like a lot ). He and I have gone through some pretty tough times together as did Andrea. I am going to try to find a listing for him in Savannah and give him a call. Let's just all hope I can get a hold of him because he will know something or remember something I may not have. You have my eternal gratitude webrocket. This man means more to me than what I can express on here, as does Andrea. You have really done a great job with your detective work and I think we're all dang lucky to have you. Thanks again and talk to you soon. I am going to try to call Rob right now. Cheers to all - BRMc aka MontanaMan

MontanaMan, I did find your RB on FB in Savannah! He is under his own name. I live in Syracuse now, but my husband grew up here. I tried to see if RB and my husband had any mutual friends, but couldn't find any. We are in the same age bracket.

Well, well. I have caught up with my friend Rob who is now living in Savannah, GA. Thanks to cusesleuth above! I think you and I were tracking him down at the same time. I also found him through Facebook too and he actually called me that same evening. We are now back as the best friends we are ( and more ) and have been talking every single day at least twice a day. He remembers Andrea too but he can't think of anything to add. He knows basically what I already know. That doesn't mean that someone else he and I are acquainted with might not know about Andrea though, so he and I are contacting all of our old friends and acquaintances from back in those day's and seeing what they might remember. I think we'll eventually find someone who can tell us more about Andrea and where she might have ended up. This Rob that webrocket found for me happens to be someone I went through a whole lot with. We met while still in High School and were always friends, etc. after that even though we went through a very traumatic situation here in Montana together where the man Rob was dating at the time jumped out a 5th floor window of a local hotel in front of us both and it has scarred both of us forever. We were both 17 when that happened. The police at first thought we might have pushed him! But, they realized that neither one of us would ever be capable of such a terrible thing and the man actually survived the jump only by providence of falling onto the roof of a pickup truck below, then bouncing off that onto the hood and then to the pavement. It saved his life thankfully and he told police that it was his choice and we had nothing to do with it. I've never gotten over that and is likely that it lead me down the path I followed after it happened. ( The drugs, underage clubs and some pretty radical and self detrimental behaviour. ). I am one of those who is dealing with PTSD and more to this day over all I went through. Some voluntary but most if it, not. My friend Rob is in a worse state of mind than I am come to find out. Now that he and I have reconnected, he is coming up to Montana from Georgia and eventually moving into my home with me. That's down the road a few months to a year from now. I know, sounds weird but we have known each other for way too long and I'd trust him with my soul. We can certainly help and do some good for each other and he needs to get out of where he is in Savannah. So, we will also be taking carbuffs original suggestion and are going to begin journaling and writing down our memories and recollections of the Bat Cave scene in the NW USA in the late 70's and 80's where and when it started. I guess it's called "Goth" and "Emo" now, but we were the original ones and it wasn't at all about being dark and scary and perhaps satanic like many of the Goth people are now day's. We had a totally different mindset back then and it was an extremely positive one. More like the Hippie scene in the 60's when I was born. Spreading love, peace and positivity to all. That still describes myself and Rob to this very day, damaged as we may be! I realize I have rambled on here and probably stated some things that are TMI but I am one who will always be honest and tell it like it is. We will identify this young lady and she may indeed be 'my Andrea'. If so, I will do what I have to, to identify her and give her the peace, justice and the beautiful resting place that she so deserves. Thanks everyone and you have helped not just this young woman whom we will get identified, but two somewhat damaged men ( Rob and I ) who have been through it all and survived, although with many scars. Cheers to you all - BRMc

Hello all. Apologies for being out of touch for a bit there. My friend Rob in GA ended up with Appendicitis and it nearly got him. I haven't been in a great state of mind since that happened as I have been focusing all of my 'energy' on Rob and making sure he heals properly. I'm rather drained after all that and having some other family and friend traumas happen in the last week or two. The saying is true. It comes in three's and sometimes more! All at once. Very strange how that works sometimes. Anyhow, I've been resting and trying to get my strength and energy back to what it should be. I'm a very giving person and I may tend to give too much in some cases and according to some friends/family. That's just my Aquarian personality. Anyway, I was quite floored by the sketch that zweibel did of Andrea with the Goth makeup. It looks like my Andrea to a T now. So much so I could/can hardly look at it. It freaked me out completely. The sketch resembles her as I knew her so much. Thank you for doing that zweibel. It's extremely helpful! I have been thinking of all the options I can on how to identify this young lady and I can't seem to come up with anymore than I already have. I'm having that kind of odd and creepy feeling that this is my Andrea and it's an indescribable feeling really. I mean, I can't prove that this is her but my gut feeling is that it is. I don't want to get everyone excited or anything either. I could be off totally. I'm human and therefore will make mistakes. The only thing that I can think of that makes the sketch not look like my Andrea is that the sketch shows a bit skinnier young lady than the one I knew. Then again, she was always weight conscious and could have lost a bit of weight. Especially if she kept running and doing certain drugs. These are just my own thoughts but I feel I should go with my instinct and just put everything out there for all to see and know. Of course, I don't want this to be my Andrea but if it is, I only want to see her at rest as I have said and in a place where those who love her can visit and talk to her, etc. Ugh. You all know what I mean. I kick myself every day for not keeping track of her when I knew perfectly well back then that something was not right with her or that she was running from something. I was busy finding myself and being self destructive at times but I don't feel that's a good enough excuse. I just should have kept in touch with her. One thing I know might help is if I can describe what we all wore back then, including Andrea. A lot of makeup consisting of eyeliner, mascara, white foundation. I used to take eyeliner and put it on my cheeks and rub it in so I looked hollow cheeked and it gave my face, well....the look I was going for. Then we would all wear, especially the girls, either black lipstick or really blood red lipstick. Sometimes gold lipstick too. Our hair was generally long and ratted out or very long and smooth as if it was ironed. Lot's of silver jewelry and occult symbols. Very Egyptian looking eyes. I remember just about everyone having black hair either dyed or their real colour. Black leather was big in our group. Jewelry made out of bone and hair. Don't take that wrong either. It wasn't as yuck as it sounds! LOL. I'm talking cow/sheep bones that we would get from the ranch where I grew up in Montana and would make jewelry with it. Yes, we were pretty out there but it was all about having fun and making a scene and dancing all night. The clothing we wore was always black and I would wear black stretch pants, a long black shirt of some type, a pair of John Fluevogg shoes. You'll have to look those up to know what I mean. Very pointed toe black shoes that looked witchy. Then the jewelry of course and makeup and we'd be ready to go out for the day or night. Usually night. Hope that helps as far as sketching goes. We didn't look like how "Goth" kids look now day's. It was quite different and perhaps that's why we called it Bat Cave. Alright, I'm not sure what else I can say but please don't hesitate to ask or contact me if you want or need info or have other questions. I'm leaning towards this young lady being my Andrea but I don't want to muck up the waters, so to say, in case it is someone else. All missing women and girls need to be looked at and considered no matter how strong my own feelings are on her ID already. Thanks and cheers to all - MontanaMan

You know Roselvr, that is a really good idea about Facebook. That way, the info would get around much more quickly and people Andrea and I knew from back in the early to mid 80's would likely see it and comment on it, spread it around etc. If anyone wants to do that I would encourage them to do so. You all have my permission to quote and use anything I have said. I would do the Facebook page myself but it's not really my area of expertise and I think a younger more computer savvy person could do a much better job than I ever could. A Facebook page would also open the possibilities of my Andrea still being alive and out there in the world somewhere. If she is, she'll likely see the page and respond. Or someone who knows her now. Someone out there has to have known her or still knows her besides myself and the few people from that time period that I am still in touch with. So, that would be between 1979 when I started going out to Seattle and hanging out with the "fringe" crowd and the mid to later 80's when I left Seattle, moved in with my older brother in PHX and got myself in a better state of mind.

Anyway, I think the Facebook idea is a great one and I hope that one of us can volunteer to perhaps start one for Andrea. Whether it is the one I knew or not. The description and the sketches and what the detective I talked to in Orange County said about her fits with the Andrea I knew so much that it's very eerie. I did talk to another friend last night who I hung out with back in that time period and I grilled him on everything he could possibly remember about Andrea. What he kept saying is that he felt that she was always running from something or that she was an unwanted or throw away child/young lady. He also said that he thought she came from a family that had plenty of money and was very Catholic. ( Not that Andrea was very religious if at all, and perhaps that's why she left home or was discarded ). He also said that he remembered her 'always talking' about being Italian and that's where her nick names of Big Mouth Andrea and Spaghetti Woman came from. I never called her that since she was someone I liked and I could tell she was lost and lonely and needed someone to talk to. Other people we hung with did call her those names though. She never acted as if it bothered her and I really don't think it did. She was pretty tough actually and seemed quite street wise. That's the extent of what he remembers and what I remember of her besides what I have already written in previous posts.

Again, I hope the things I and other people who remember Andrea have said about her will help in some way and that it will eventually either identify her as the Andrea Doe we're all trying to identify or that it will perhaps find her alive and well somewhere. That would of course be my preference but things are just adding up a little too much for me. I am going to go back to my research now and will definitely let Rob know that you all have been wishing him a speedy recovery. He's going to be fine according to the doctors at the hospital in Savannah. Thanks everyone and peace to all - MontanaMan

Hey all,
Wow, I miss a lot when I don't check in for a week or so don't I? Apologies for that. I suppose what I ought to make clear is when I met Andrea and how old we were or how old I thought she was. I also want to thank everyone for being so friendly and nice and saying all the good things you have about my meeting up with my friend Rob again. We have been playing a lot of 'catch up' every day that we talk and sometimes we almost laugh ourselves silly. It certainly was a fun time back in those days and it seems like things and people were much easier going back then as well. I have just lain on my bed and meditated trying to bring my mind back to that time in my life. I first MET Andrea sometime in the year 1986-87. I was in Seattle before that time but had never met her until then. I think it was spring of 1986 perhaps. I remember that because when I met Andrea for the first time at City Beat, she had a Camellia in her hair that she had picked off a Camellia shrub outside of City Beat. I remember it was so very red against her jet black, big ratted out hair and pale skin. She must have been ( and this is only a guess! ) around the same age or maybe even a little younger than myself. I was born in Feb of 1967. That should nail it down a bit better for everyone. After that night, we would see each other every time we went to City Beat which was every weekend pretty much. She seemed to know a lot of people but they seemed to be only acquaintances. I never saw her with anyone that I would call a "best friend". I don't think she had one at all. Seriously. As I have said before, she seemed to be hiding or running from something and it seems like she didn't want to be around one person too long. She was 'flighty' that way. I always thought she was a lonely girl back then and I always did my best to befriend her and dance with her or just hang out together. I do remember only one time that ever let me get close to her. What I'm going to talk about now is in my past so don't think I'm still living like this or doing drugs. I know you likely don't need to be told that but I'm just making sure you know I am reliable and not a screwed up mess. Far from it in fact. Andrea and I each took a hit of MDA as I always seemed to be chosen as the middle man between the dealers and my friends. I'm a nice guy, what can I say? So, we took it and danced for a while and talked amongst other friends and when it took hold of us we fell into the usual "I love everything! It's all fabulous" mindset. They didn't call MDA the love drug for nothing back then, mind you. At some point, Andrea and I took off together and walked out of the club and up Boren Street to the old Monastery which of course was long closed down by then. We sat on the old back porch of it ( The Monastery was in an old church and very creepy at night ) and just talked. That is honestly the only time I remember ever getting close to her and being able to ask her questions. But, of course we were higher than kites so it was mostly laughing and hanging on to each other. I seem to remember that we had a bottle of orange juice with us and about 50 straws each. People who were on MDA used to chew on handfuls of straws. It was that or you'd keep clenching your teeth since all you wanted to do was talk, talk, talk and dance, dance dance. Hence the straws to chew on. This must sound so weird to you all and I can't believe I am telling you all this. This was the time I asked her seriously where she was from and what she did. This is when she told me that she worked taking care of an elderly or/and disabled woman in Burien, which is indeed a southern suburb of Seattle. I do not remember her telling me where she was from. The only thing that comes to mind is across the sound from Tacoma. So maybe Sequim, Olalla or one of the towns over there. I seem to recall her vaguely flapping her arms over towards the other side of the sound ( Puget Sound ) and saying something about across from Tacoma. So, unless that was a recollection of someone else I'm fairly sure that is what she said or indicated. After that, we started walking back to City Beat and still laughing ourselves silly. Oh, and when were on the back porch of the old Monastery, she did throw up too. Just really quick and I remember asking if she was okay and her laughing and saying yes, she was okay. She said it was just the MDA. It certainly never made me sick but perhaps she was doing more than me or was on other stuff too. I don't know. WE got back to CB and that was that. Didn't talk to her again the rest of that night except to say goodbye at closing. She did stay with my roommate and I once or twice too, but nothing of any importance was ever talked abut. She merely crashed on the big pile of clothes in our walk in closet and would leave early in the morning before we were up. Guess she had to go to work in Burien. I have no idea. Like I said, she seemed to have money most of the time and never asked for any from me or my roommate so I tend to believe that she did indeed work in Burien doing what she said she did. That's pretty much all I know. She was more of an acquaintance than a friend not because I didn't want to be but because she didn't want to get too close to anyone it seemed like. She obviously picked up on me being a nice guy and my sexuality being what it is, I wasn't a threat to her at all when it came to that. No awkwardness in our friendship or acquaintanceship or whatever you might want to call it. All I know is that I DO miss her and I am not happy with myself in that I didn't keep track of her when I left Seattle and "The Scene" so to speak. She was a really good girl or young lady. I could tell that much. But, she was running or hiding from something. That was obvious too. I do indeed still have the bracelet she gave me and it is still in my deceased mothers jewelry box on a shelf in my closet. I look at it often but I have never picked it up or worn it and neither did my mother. My mother just kept it safe for me while she was alive. I know I wore it a few times when I still lived in Seattle and hung out at City Beat. If any detective or LE wants it for DNA testing, etc. I am sure willing to let them have it for that but I would want it back. It means a lot to me like Andrea does. I guess I should remind everyone again that she pronounced her name as ( this is the phonetic spelling ) Awn-dray-uh. I suppose that is about it. I hope I have answered the questions everyone has asked and if not, just ask again and I will check in much more often than I have been. As I always seem to say, this young lady does seem like she might be my Andrea but I don't know what else I can do. She never told me a last name or any other personal info. I'm not sure that anyone in our group of friends and acquaintances ever really knew her either. I have asked many people. Many of the same people you see on the websites for City Beat, The Monastery, Skoochies and Club Broadway. Perhaps someone who is searching for those clubs will stumble onto this site too and recognize me or better yet, Andrea and they will say something about her that we don't know. That's my hope besides my even greater hope of just giving this young lady her identity back and doing for her what she so deserves. Again, if anyone has any questions for me regarding the Andrea I know/knew, then please ask. If you want to know about the Bat Cave scene and all that stuff, I'll be more than happy to answer those too. I think I saw where someone in an above post was interested in asking me about that. Have a great night and a fabulous week. Cheers to all - MontanaMan

PS - Friend Rob wants me to thank everyone for their healing thoughts and really great comments. He's doing great. Thanks everyone!

MontanaMan's posts

 

[Roselvr]

Hello all... I just found this case. I am from Huntington Beach and thought I'd type in my town to see if there were any cases from around here. So here I am.

I feel so bad for this girl, as I was kind of a mixed up girl in my younger days as well. Though I was a Junior or senior in high school when this happened I do remember the scene in HB in those days. It was definitely the type of place someone (a runaway or a drifter) could go to and find a crowd to hang with. Even today 20 years or so later it is completely different. Since then the community has changed so much. They have almost completely eliminated that alternative fringe element that used to be such a part of what down town Huntington was. Now its mostly expensive new homes,resorts, restaurants and surf shops (a total tourist attraction).
Needless to say I miss my old Huntington Beach. Main Street was a place where one could re-create themselves and completely make up a past. I remember meeting so many of these types down there and I often wonder what ever became of them

Was she alone when she was hit? Or was she possibly just dropped off? The reason I ask is that the area where she was it was slightly off the beaten path. There were not any businesses or motels around for several long blocks along PCH. I do remember vacant lots and an animal shelter right there, this was way before the huge hotels and resorts were built. There was a housing tract close by though. Main street would have been quite a walk and the opposite way was Newport an even longer walk. Not even sure if there were sidewalks s right there along PCH. I don't see why she would even want to cross the street?? The ocean right at part was pretty desolate not to mention cold at night. Why would someone be all dressed up to hang out in that area?

Makes me wonder if she knew what she was doing or had to escape from a car at that point? It sounded to me like she was relying on the kindness of strangers at that point and maybe got herself into some sort of situation. I so wish I knew more about this girl.

Isn't it by the power plant and a mobile home park? Sort of in the middle of nowhere?

Oh yeah ambercat your right. I forgot about the power plant. And the old fashioned mobile home park (which was mostly inhabited by senior citizens) and 9 hole golf course called Driftwood. They were both torn down years ago but I believe they were still there around the time 'Andrea' died.

Maybe she was staying with someone at the mobile home park?

MountainMan, Are you still in contact with any of the people you hung out with in those days?
If not, sometimes people find eachother on facebook who hadn't seen each other in years. I know I have "friended" people I knew in elementry school.
Possibly if you remember any names you could look them up and see if they have any memories of your friend Andrea. Maybe they may have some insight into where she went.

Facebook could be a tool into getting more information about your friend.

Thanks for posting the page about the Batcave and the whole scene. It really does give a good picture of what it was like.
Batcave,Deathrock,And cryptic Afterpunk

I grew up not far from where "Andrea" was found in Huntington Beach. I do remember seeing people dressed like that in the downtown area in the early eighties. I was very young and probably afraid of them

I do remember in the 7th grade (1987) many kids started coming to school wearing the white goth makeup and black clothes. Being a beach town, they really stood out. I remember these types all the way through High School. They were called Death Rockers, Goth or Doom and Gloomers.

So I'm guessing there must have been a scene or "Batcave" sort of place they hung out in Huntington. Just have no idea where it would have been or what happened to these kids I knew.

Always being open minded, I was friendly with all the different clicks in school I knew alot of them. I'm trying to rack my brain to see if any of these kids are still local so I can ask.

There was a place on Golden Beach some of my friends used to go to. The Golden Bear, maybe? It wasn't really a Goth place, at least didn't look it in the pictures my friends sent me, but it appeared to have quite a number of Goth/death rock people in the crowd?

Not that this helps much but...

I remember that place. It was called the golden Bear, right on the corner of Main street and PCH. I believe it was around since the 20's. It was torn in 1986.

I was to young to go there, but it seemed that all th cool people went there and my parents were pretty sad when it was gone. The city lost alot of it's unique charm when that happened.

I think it was probably gone before "Andrea" was in town.

Article about her from 1994:

COLUMN ONE : The Search for Names of the Dead : Orange County has a striking number of John and Jane Does who were neither poor nor loners. Many left clues--a room key, a bus ticket--that torment investigators trying to find out who they were.

Great article. Thanks for finding it.

Would it be possible to contact Detective Luckey and see what he thinks of our search and the new picture?

I wish the article had mentioned the Orange County residents that spent some time with her during her last days. Are their names available to contact again?

Close to the beach would have been pretty cold even in April in Huntinton Beach; at least to the people who were born and raised here (we are wimps about cold weather). Maybe it's in the hi 50's or low 60's.

Others on the other hand, like people from Seattle or back east would probably not find it not cold at all. I have family that visit from the mid west and think the weather here is always warm and woderful , even in the winter.


Also girls would with stand cold weather if they thought they had a cute outfit on.

Though it sounds weird looking, it seems like she had put a lot of thought into her outfit for the evening.

Someone a few pages back on this thread was talking about the area where she was struck...

Back in 1990 there wasn't really much around that area except fields an power plant and an old mobile home park with a small golf course, which is where she stayed the night before. I had a boyfriend in 1991 / 1992 that had a grandmother that lived in the mobile home park it was mostly very old people, not really a hang out scene at all. I wonder if search for her birth family led her there??

There are housing tracks behind the area that have been there for quite a long time, but it was more of an affluent area with mostly families.

There were not really any stores or night life around at all. At least not until you got to Main Street (That’s where everyone hung out).

Now days there are a Hilton and a large Hyatt resort sort of place that even has a bridge over to the ocean side.

It has changed a lot over the years.

If you cross the street towards the ocean it was nothing but a dark, cold long beach.
Which make me wonder if she was crossing PCH to sit and think on the shore or possibly hurt herself??

It would have been dark too, so vehicles would have had their lights on, making them easier to see. Although I've found headlights can make it harder to judge how far away they are.

Local related posts

 

[Roselvr]

MountainMan, using your best estimate, how old was Big Mouth Andrea when you were all hanging together in Seattle? that might help us narrow down her year of birth.

they give a wide range (16-30) for the deceased "Andrea" in 1990.

If Big Mouth Andrea really pronounced her name Awn Dray Uh as opposed to her faking it to be more dramatic, that really narrows down where she came from. that sort of accent can be found in one degree or another in the 5 Boroughs of NYC, Nassau and Suffolk Counties on Long Island, Westchester County just north of the Bronx, Rockland County, NY, and the following counties in NJ - Bergen, Passaic, Essex, Hudson, Union, Middlesex and parts of Monmouth. once you get past these areas the accent drops off quickly and indeed even in places like eastern Suffolk and northern Westchester the accent is not nearly as prominent.

while that is some progress, the counties I named currently have a combined population of well over 13 million people so she is still a needle in a haystack. with the added factor of her family's money, that would probably eliminate the Bronx in NYC and Hudson and Passaic Counties in NJ.

one last observation is that I'd say with 90% probability Andrea was either Italian or Jewish, more likely Italian.

I feel mean saying this, but I think you are narrowing this down a bit too much. I have a cousin named Andrea who pronounces her name like that, but she is from Pennsylvania and Roman Catholic. Her father is German and her mother is [I'm not 100% sure] either Slovak, Hungarian, or Ukrainian. Coincidentally, she is the only person who I knew for a really long time named Andrea and, embarrassingly, I didn't realize that other people pronounced it differently until I was in high school.

thanks MontanaMan (sorry I was calling you MountainMan!) for clarifying a few things. you said her accent was Pacific Northwest so that may explain how she could have gotten expensive dentistry while on the run. if she was fairly local, she could have gone back home, stayed a while, gotten medical and dental care and then rejoined your goth posse.

if you mentioned it I must have missed it, but can you approximate Andrea's age? I mean about how old would you say she was when you guys first met (and if you can restate the year)? I ask this so if we are to scour old yearbooks online from the Puget Sound area, it would help to narrow down the years.

She looks younger in the sketch than in the morgue photo, which I thought I'd seen but no longer seem to have the pointer to. In the morgue photo, she looks like she could be the 26-27 she apparently told the family who was helping her.

Check out what I found on FB Batcave,Deathrock,And cryptic Afterpunk - this is just a fan page dedicated to the original 80s bat cave scene as well as the death rock and dark after punk scene. There are photos too!

I'm wondering if Big-mouth Andrea ever had a run-in with the law in Seattle. I wonder how long they keep their records for. If she had been picked up for something they might have her full name and date of birth, then we could narrow the search from there, and if we found Big Mouth Andrea alive then how amazing would that be?

MontanaMan, so when you left Seattle Andrea was still there and active in the Bat Cave scene? what year was that again?

I have looked back through MontanaMan's posts and the only clue I see is that he says he knows about the Seattle scene 'up to 1989 or so'. I'm wondering if Andrea left the scene before he did.

Do we have a pic of the black stone? I don't see it on any of her pages.
doenetwork - 40UTFCA
Nam Us - 7672
I'm also surprised they're not showing her clothing on her pages or the key & ring

Clothing links:

The pink I meant

Sleeveless dress

More sleeveless dresses

Lost that Link above for dresses. Try this

Fishnet look

Sorry, some of those links are not going to the specific pic. Scroll through anyway, they give a good idea of 90s fashion.

Baggy sweater

Considering it was 1990, would they have said if it was a corduroy dress?
Here's what pops up in my head:

With a normal red long sleeve t-shirt under it and then something like

Although it could be more like the picture I am attaching

Her Nam Us link doesn't even have the clothing listed. Are we able to "complain" about things like this?

Is there anyone that's in contact with someone working her case? If so maybe we can get some clothing; ring & key photos?

Clothing:

black cotton dress;

a red, long-sleeved shirt;

fishnet stockings;

a pink sweater;

a size 40 D bra; and pink shoes, with the price tags still on.

A ring made of human hair was located on her left ring finger. She carried a smooth black stone, and a motel key inscribed with No. 218. She carried no identification and no credit cards.

I first MET Andrea sometime in the year 1986-87. I was in Seattle before that time but had never met her until then. I think it was spring of 1986 perhaps. I remember that because when I met Andrea for the first time at City Beat, she had a Camellia in her hair that she had picked off a Camellia shrub outside of City Beat. I remember it was so very red against her jet black, big ratted out hair and pale skin. She must have been ( and this is only a guess! ) around the same age or maybe even a little younger than myself. I was born in Feb of 1967. That should nail it down a bit better for everyone. After that night, we would see each other every time we went to City Beat which was every weekend pretty much.- MontanaMan

Curious if you have any pics from back then?
Also would you happen to have a pic of the hair jewelry?

Done for the night; wanna leave a few links

How to Be Goth

When a whole lot of goths gather in Seattle, can you call it a festival? May 25, 2000

Someone asked about the weather- Orange County, California - Monthly Average Maximum & Minimum Temperatures
Decedent was struck by 2 autos while crossing PCH in Huntington Beach.

Laguna Beach - 48.4 - 68.9
Newport Beach - 52.5 - 65.2
Santa Ana 51.2 - 72.7
Tustin-Irvine 47.7 - 72.9
Yorba Linda 46.4 - 73.9

Considering it was 1990, would they have said if it was a corduroy dress?

It specifies cotton. I'm wondering if they know exactly what came from Good will besides the shoes. I was trying to google the Goth fashion because I wondered if maybe some of the clothes were items she had back then. We were not a disposable society back then.

Andrea" also spent a night at the home of a mobile-home salesman who took pity on the homeless woman who had few articles of clothing and no money. The family fed her, gave her the back bedroom and gave her some money. "Andrea" apparently took the money and bought clothes at a Goodwill store, including a pair of shoes for $19.95. She was wearing the pink shoes with the price tags still on when she was struck on the highway by two cars.
Her parents, she claimed, were pretty well-known, but she didn't divulge who they were. She had been adopted at a very young age. She didn't have any type of identification. The salesman said the morning "Andrea" left his house, she cut off some of her hair and put it on her finger.

Many beaches on the east coast have black smooth stones that wash up on the shore. I used to carry one in my pocket as a kind of "worry stone."

I really wish we had a picture. When I read she carried a smooth black stone; I think just that; a black stone she picked either from home; like you said; what washes up on our beaches (does CA not have these stones?) or along the way. My daughter had a rubbermade box with stones; I may even have one in my lock box of stuff from the 80's & 90's.

Sounds like the similarity was in the physical description more than anything. I've been meaning to ask MM, without trying to sound crass, did BigMouthed A have a huge, er chest? I mean, a 40D bra size on a petite woman, (she really doesn't weigh much for such a large bra size and her feet are tiny) would surely be quite a noticeable attribute.

Again, I don't want to sound crass, but it is sorta relevant!

Edited to add: I'm sure we've all searched for missing "Andreas" in missing person databases, but as MM pointed out, his friend pronounced her name "AWN-drea", are there alternate spellings to the name that are relatively common? Maybe it was her middle name? Or maybe it was her birth name but her birth parents changed it something else and she was trying to revert back to it?

Also, I find it interesting that NAMUS rule-outs are all in Virginia. It makes me think that the investigators must have thought she was probably telling the truth about where she was from.

Re: bra size 40D.

If Andrea bought that bra at the Goodwill store, size may not reflect her body very well. She may have picked more by color or trim.

Also, women often wear ill-fitting bras. Last season on What Not To Wear a woman came in wearing a 38B. The bra fit very poorly & contributed to the woman's overall, ah, need for What Not To Wear. The show arranged for a professional fitting and the woman left in a 32E, IIRC. Clothes look much better over an appropriate foundation garment, but Andrea's choices may have been limited.

Laughing

I was just coming to post the same thing! LOL
I was googling for photos of someone with her heigh; weight & bra size when I came across a post on Porchlight

Interesting! IMHO, the UID likely was wearing the wrong bra size. Supposedly 75 percent of women are wearing the wrong size, and 5'4", 122 pounds does not strike me as the same body type to require a 40" band size (for those who don't already know, the numerical portion of a bra size is the measurement around the torso, the letter is the actual cup size.)

According to this height-weight chart, 122 pounds at 5'4" would classify a woman/girl as having a small build. I think her actual measurement would've been more like a 34" or possibly 36" even with a D cup. Let us know if you hear anything on the potential match!

http://www.healthchecksystems.com/heightweightchart.htm

I have such a narrow back I nearly always end up with something the wrong size in the back measurement. The cup size is more important though, and although a D cup on a slim to medium girl like Andrea doesn't necessarily mean she would have appeared top heavy, I think it is worth noting where the original info came from. Someone who has probably seen the bodies of many young women in death, has thought that Andrea's chest size was large enough to be worth noting, in hopes of someone recognizing her. So I'm reasoning it must have been pretty noticeable

Google cache of Huntington Beach Jane Doe, CA

This was posted on 1st page; wanted to bring it back here in case someone needs the dental info. I keep reading "expensive porcelain dental work" which most likely were covered by insurance.

This unidentified young woman died around 10 pm on April 1, 1990 while crossing Pacific Coast Highway west of Newland, Huntington Beach, California. She died at the scene of a broken neck.

She was Caucasian and estimated to be between 18 to 30 with a closer estimate of 17-21. She had brown hair and brown eyes, was 5'4" and 122 lbs. She had acne scars on her face, was well nourished and large breasted.

When found she was wearing a pink sweater, a red long-sleeved shirt, a black cotton dress, fishnet stockings, a 40D bra and size 6 pink shoes. She had a ring made of human hair on her left ring finger.

Dental information: PFM jackets on back of #7-10. Restorations #2,15,19,20. Missing #6,11,21,28-spaces closed. Missing wisdom teeth. Porcelain dental work. Prior orthodontics.

After her sketch was published in a local newspaper, two men came forward saying they had met the victim a couple weeks before her death. Both said they only knew her by her first name, Andrea.

According to them Andrea said she was from the East Coast.

The first man said he had befriended her two weeks before the accident. Both had shared the same car while hitchhiking on Pacific Coast Highway. He was 100% positive that was the same person. He said Andrea told him she was adopted and trying to find her real family. He added that she told him she was from somewhere like Virginia but told a woman she was from New York. Though she claimed to be 25-26, he thought she appeared as young as 16.

The second man said Andrea spent one night at his house. He said she had no place to stay at and no money for food or clothing so he let her use one bed room, fed her and gave her some money. Andrea then bought clothes at a Goodwill store, including a pair of shoes for $19.95 that she was wearing at the time of her death. He said she had told him her parents were pretty well-known but she didn't want to say who they were and that she had been adopted at a very young age. He also said that the ring made of hair she had was of her own hair that she had cut in front of him and then placed on her finger

I have been thinking about hair and dye and timelines.

If MontanaMan possibly last saw Andrea in 88/89 and she had jet black (dyed I presume) goth hair.........how would she have got to have possibly shoulder length, brown hair by April 1990 when our Andrea died?

I've had more hair colour catastrophes than I can count, and I know from experience the hardest colour to shift is pure black; you can't achieve it with anything but a permanent dye, or lift it out without the strongest bleach. Then you have to try and dye your hair back to its natural colour, but it always looks dyed, imo.

It's not mentioned that Andrea had dyed brown hair - how much could a person's hair have grown out in a year or so? Enough that no trace of the goth black remained?

Your right.. I used to dye my hair black in high school. What a disaster. Dyed black hair is the worst and takes incredibly long to grow out. My hair is naturally very dark brown, so it wasn't always that noticible.

Possibly it wasn't that noticible on Andrea either, if natural color was dark brown.
Maybe that is why her hair was on the shorter side. Maybe she was cutting out a bad dye job?

I wonder if she had an adoptive family that did love her and wanted make it work and she left anyway. It seems to me that if she did have a caring adoptive family, they would have at some point looked for her..
If she was truly was an orphan and looking for her parents, there may not be anyone looking for her at all. Maybe she was in "the system" most of her life.
If she was a runaway foster child, nobody would really be looking for her.
If she turned 18, possibly they just put her out there on her own, as there would be nothing more they could do for her.
I wouldn't know how she would get information on her real family being famous or well known. It almost sounds to me that she may have made this up in her mind to make herself feel better about her situation and that her real parents were the kind of people that would give up a child to a not so ideal situation like the foster system or the streets.
Were they possibly drug addicts, etc?

Andrea Doe thoughts...

 

[MrsTigglesworth]

Thanks for putting it all together here!

Re: MontanaMan : a friend of his did reply recently to the inquiry on the city beat website, but since he addressed it to him and not to me regarding andrea, we will just have to wait and see if they catch up and MM gets back to us ....

Secondly, regarding possible goodwill locations, I made several calls yesterday and will have to revise the area based on my confusion on the area of PCH where she was. The one on beach blvd near the "area Newland " where I thought she may have gone was only open since 1994. Santa Ana and Westminster blvd have been open since the 70's, but seem too far north now to be possibilities.

The best looking option now is probably the Adams ave one only 4 or so blocks from Newland/pCH ... I will try to give them a call today. The folks I spoke to yesterday thought I was a little crazy.... Maybe I can explain myself a little better today .

 

[zwiebel]

Roselvr, I don't know if it's helpful or not, but there are lots of old pics of huntington beach and many other areas at these archives here, and on their flickr stream. Copyright's free on many of them too:

http://ocarchives.com/