Identified! CA - Huntington Beach, WhtFem 40UFCA, 18-30, poss name Andrea, Apr'90 - Andrea Kuiper

[zwiebel]

That's interesting, MontanaMan, thanks. Hopefully, EmmaLiLucia will be able to do some photoshop with your tips - that is what's needed. Incidentally, the face of my sketch is exactly the same roundness as CarlK's, as I actually traced it off my screen. Having her hair around her face just made it look slimmer. I suspect white makeup would make it look fatter.

Does anyone here know if an autopsy could miss a long-ago broken nose? Just from the original drawing and CarlK's, the bridge looks to be a little off to me, as though something might have happened once.

ETA, hope you and your friend are fully recovered.

 

[Roselvr]

You guys & gals should consider making her a FB page to get her case out there. Its much easier to share. If MontanaMan doesn't mind you sharing his stories; it may be helpful to find her. You can like all sorts of Washington pages to get her face out there. Make the page; add a few trusted people as admins; split up who adds what; you can start tagging things like the police of where she was found; then some of the clubs may have pages too. It's easy to use FB as the page; then go like their pages as the page. See how fast her story gets shared on FB. If anyone is good with twitter; set up a profile.

Just make sure what you post is public knowledge.

I kick myself every day for not keeping track of her when I knew perfectly well back then that something was not right with her or that she was running from something. I was busy finding myself and being self destructive at times but I don't feel that's a good enough excuse. I just should have kept in touch with her. One thing I know might help is if I can describe what we all wore back then, including Andrea. A lot of makeup consisting of eyeliner, mascara, white foundation. I used to take eyeliner and put it on my cheeks and rub it in so I looked hollow cheeked and it gave my face, well....the look I was going for. Then we would all wear, especially the girls, either black lipstick or really blood red lipstick. Sometimes gold lipstick too. Our hair was generally long and ratted out or very long and smooth as if it was ironed. Lot's of silver jewelry and occult symbols. Very Egyptian looking eyes. I remember just about everyone having black hair either dyed or their real colour. Black leather was big in our group. Jewelry made out of bone and hair. Don't take that wrong either. It wasn't as yuck as it sounds! LOL. I'm talking cow/sheep bones that we would get from the ranch where I grew up in Montana and would make jewelry with it. Yes, we were pretty out there but it was all about having fun and making a scene and dancing all night. The clothing we wore was always black and I would wear black stretch pants, a long black shirt of some type, a pair of John Fluevogg shoes. You'll have to look those up to know what I mean. Very pointed toe black shoes that looked witchy. Then the jewelry of course and makeup and we'd be ready to go out for the day or night. Usually night. Hope that helps as far as sketching goes. We didn't look like how "Goth" kids look now day's. It was quite different and perhaps that's why we called it Bat Cave. Alright, I'm not sure what else I can say but please don't hesitate to ask or contact me if you want or need info or have other questions. I'm leaning towards this young lady being my Andrea but I don't want to muck up the waters, so to say, in case it is someone else. All missing women and girls need to be looked at and considered no matter how strong my own feelings are on her ID already. Thanks and cheers to all - MontanaMan

I hope you & your friend feel better asap.
Its sounding like this is your friend; especially due to the hair jewelry. I'm glad that you found WS & are able to add input. Hopefully other friends will find this post or the FB page if one is made.

It was a different time back then. You may have known more about her but didn't retain it. I have about 10 years on you; we were very nosey about people we hung with. Some of the stuff you're describing sounds like stuff we used to do for heavy metal & punk; think Mick Mars of Motley Crue.

 

[MontanaMan]

You know Roselvr, that is a really good idea about Facebook. That way, the info would get around much more quickly and people Andrea and I knew from back in the early to mid 80's would likely see it and comment on it, spread it around etc. If anyone wants to do that I would encourage them to do so. You all have my permission to quote and use anything I have said. I would do the Facebook page myself but it's not really my area of expertise and I think a younger more computer savvy person could do a much better job than I ever could. A Facebook page would also open the possibilities of my Andrea still being alive and out there in the world somewhere. If she is, she'll likely see the page and respond. Or someone who knows her now. Someone out there has to have known her or still knows her besides myself and the few people from that time period that I am still in touch with. So, that would be between 1979 when I started going out to Seattle and hanging out with the "fringe" crowd and the mid to later 80's when I left Seattle, moved in with my older brother in PHX and got myself in a better state of mind.

Anyway, I think the Facebook idea is a great one and I hope that one of us can volunteer to perhaps start one for Andrea. Whether it is the one I knew or not. The description and the sketches and what the detective I talked to in Orange County said about her fits with the Andrea I knew so much that it's very eerie. I did talk to another friend last night who I hung out with back in that time period and I grilled him on everything he could possibly remember about Andrea. What he kept saying is that he felt that she was always running from something or that she was an unwanted or throw away child/young lady. He also said that he thought she came from a family that had plenty of money and was very Catholic. ( Not that Andrea was very religious if at all, and perhaps that's why she left home or was discarded ). He also said that he remembered her 'always talking' about being Italian and that's where her nick names of Big Mouth Andrea and Spaghetti Woman came from. I never called her that since she was someone I liked and I could tell she was lost and lonely and needed someone to talk to. Other people we hung with did call her those names though. She never acted as if it bothered her and I really don't think it did. She was pretty tough actually and seemed quite street wise. That's the extent of what he remembers and what I remember of her besides what I have already written in previous posts.

Again, I hope the things I and other people who remember Andrea have said about her will help in some way and that it will eventually either identify her as the Andrea Doe we're all trying to identify or that it will perhaps find her alive and well somewhere. That would of course be my preference but things are just adding up a little too much for me. I am going to go back to my research now and will definitely let Rob know that you all have been wishing him a speedy recovery. He's going to be fine according to the doctors at the hospital in Savannah. Thanks everyone and peace to all - MontanaMan

 

[carbuff]

When you went to Seattle in 1979, was Andrea already there? If not, do you know when she arrived there?

 

[webrocket]

Carbuff, I've tried to pin this down with MontanaMan and I wanted to know a. when they first met and 2. how old he thought Andrea was when the first met. he may have answered the questions in different posts but at the risk of misquoting him, I thought he said that she was about 17 (give or take) around 1984. this would generate a year of birth around 1967 (give or take 2 years on either side).

I tried looking at yearbooks from the Seattle area at ancestry.com using first name Andrea and none looked like ours. she would have been an undergraduate but which year is unclear.

 

[CarlK90245]

I tried looking at yearbooks from the Seattle area at ancestry.com using first name Andrea and none looked like ours. she would have been an undergraduate but which year is unclear.

You wouldn't find her if you queried Classmates for girls named Andrea. You would have to go through every Seattle yearbook, visually searching for girls named Andrea.

Classmates was founded in 1995, but it didn't get rolling until a few years later. Persons listed in Classmates have to put their own names there, so the list you are querying would only include girls named Andrea who were alive within the last decade or so.

 

[webrocket]

You wouldn't find her if you queried Classmates for girls named Andrea. You would have to go through every Seattle yearbook, visually searching for girls named Andrea.

Classmates was founded in 1995, but it didn't get rolling until a few years later. Persons listed in Classmates have to put their own names there, so the list you are querying would only include girls named Andrea who were alive within the last decade or so.

I am not registered at Classmates. I said ancestry.com which has an admittedly smaller collection of yearbooks in its library. it is searchable by first name and approximate years of birth.

 

[CarlK90245]

Oops, I am registered at both, so sometimes I confuse the two.

 

[carbuff]

Carbuff, I've tried to pin this down with MontanaMan and I wanted to know a. when they first met and 2. how old he thought Andrea was when the first met. he may have answered the questions in different posts but at the risk of misquoting him, I thought he said that she was about 17 (give or take) around 1984. this would generate a year of birth around 1967 (give or take 2 years on either side).

I tried looking at yearbooks from the Seattle area at ancestry.com using first name Andrea and none looked like ours. she would have been an undergraduate but which year is unclear.

I'm mostly trying to narrow down the time frame in which she might have been reported missing, if she ever was.

 

[Jerri Blank]

thanks to MontanaMan for all his sharing. the scene you were in sounds like a truly interesting moment in time. i have about 4,000 questions i want to ask about the bat cave scene, but i will stay on topic for andrea/our UID's sake

i think since we have a lead it would be helpful to make a bulleted list of what we know about big mouth andrea. even though MontanaMan isnt there anymore doesnt mean we cant put out some posts on seattle message boards to find potential neighbors, an employer (didnt he say she might have been a caretaker for someone in a suburban neighborhood? that persons kids may have helped hire or pay her and could know more about who she is)

in the meantime, i am going to keep looking for people who may be this UID. she needs a name!

 

[Roselvr]

You know Roselvr, that is a really good idea about Facebook. That way, the info would get around much more quickly and people Andrea and I knew from back in the early to mid 80's would likely see it and comment on it, spread it around etc. If anyone wants to do that I would encourage them to do so. You all have my permission to quote and use anything I have said. I would do the Facebook page myself but it's not really my area of expertise and I think a younger more computer savvy person could do a much better job than I ever could. A Facebook page would also open the possibilities of my Andrea still being alive and out there in the world somewhere. If she is, she'll likely see the page and respond. Or someone who knows her now. Someone out there has to have known her or still knows her besides myself and the few people from that time period that I am still in touch with. So, that would be between 1979 when I started going out to Seattle and hanging out with the "fringe" crowd and the mid to later 80's when I left Seattle, moved in with my older brother in PHX and got myself in a better state of mind.

If someone wants to start it; I'd be happy to help get it set up then you can remove me. Hopefully your Andrea is still around & will see it.

Schools also have FB pages; it may make it quicker to ask then classmates.

I am going to go back to my research now and will definitely let Rob know that you all have been wishing him a speedy recovery. He's going to be fine according to the doctors at the hospital in Savannah. Thanks everyone and peace to all - MontanaMan

I'm glad he's going to be ok.

 

[Roselvr]

Check out what I found on FB Batcave,Deathrock,And cryptic Afterpunk - this is just a fan page dedicated to the origional 80s batcave scene as well as the deathrock and dark afterpunk scene

There are photos too!

 

[carbuff]

I'm going through all the websites looking for girls with a birthdate of 1967 +/- two years, who went missing before 1984.

I've only just started -- so far I've only found one possible.
Christina Lee White http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2634dfwa.html

Christina was 12 (b. 1967) when she went missing from Asotin County, Washington, in 1979, which would make her 17 in 1984 and in 1990.

 

[EmmaliLucia]

I'm going through all the websites looking for girls with a birthdate of 1967 +/- two years, who went missing before 1984.

I've only just started -- so far I've only found one possible.
Christina Lee White http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2634dfwa.html

Christina was 12 (b. 1967) when she went missing from Asotin County, Washington, in 1979, which would make her 17 in 1984 and in 1990.

I have a feeling that Big Mouth Andrea probably wasn't "Missing" per say, Maybe it was different in the eighties, but I know a ton of street kids that have homes, and can come home any time they want but they choose not to. Or if for some reason they can't go home they at least contact their parents and their parents don't report them missing. I met very few, if any, "street kids" who were actually reported or considered missing.

If this was a missing person I doubt they were missing for longer than a year or two. I could be wrong, but it's just a feeling I have. She may have not been reported missing until after her she died.

 

[belfastgirl73]

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1062dfdeu.html


Hermert, circa 1990

Christina Hermert
Missing since January 20, 1990 from Halle/Saale, Germany.
Classification: Missing



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: January 6, 1968
Age at Time of Disappearance: 24 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 165 cm (5'4")
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Curly brown hair of medium length. Slim build. Her maiden name is "Rolle".
Clothing: She was last seen wearing a light grey sweater; a green flannel skirt; a beige jacket and grey shoes size 36. She was carrying a black shoulder bag.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Circumstances of Disappearance
Christina Hermert disappeared from Halle/Saale on 20 January 1990. She was last seen by neighbors during the evening hours.
She had lived apart from her husband since August 1989 but both were still living in the same house.
They have two children together. In late 1989, Hermert had started working in order to get sole custody of her children. No reasons are known why she would have left her children.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A complete long shot but something about her face just reminded me of this Jane Doe. No idea why or how she would have gotten from Germany to the USA though!

 

[webrocket]

I see the basic facial resemblance but there is nothing in her profile to indicate that Christina ever left Germany so I doubt the deceased was her.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1062dfdeu.html


Hermert, circa 1990

Christina Hermert
Missing since January 20, 1990 from Halle/Saale, Germany.
Classification: Missing



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: January 6, 1968
Age at Time of Disappearance: 24 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 165 cm (5'4")
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Curly brown hair of medium length. Slim build. Her maiden name is "Rolle".
Clothing: She was last seen wearing a light grey sweater; a green flannel skirt; a beige jacket and grey shoes size 36. She was carrying a black shoulder bag.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Circumstances of Disappearance
Christina Hermert disappeared from Halle/Saale on 20 January 1990. She was last seen by neighbors during the evening hours.
She had lived apart from her husband since August 1989 but both were still living in the same house.
They have two children together. In late 1989, Hermert had started working in order to get sole custody of her children. No reasons are known why she would have left her children.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A complete long shot but something about her face just reminded me of this Jane Doe. No idea why or how she would have gotten from Germany to the USA though!

 

[carbuff]

I have a feeling that Big Mouth Andrea probably wasn't "Missing" per say, Maybe it was different in the eighties, but I know a ton of street kids that have homes, and can come home any time they want but they choose not to. Or if for some reason they can't go home they at least contact their parents and their parents don't report them missing. I met very few, if any, "street kids" who were actually reported or considered missing.

If this was a missing person I doubt they were missing for longer than a year or two. I could be wrong, but it's just a feeling I have. She may have not been reported missing until after her she died.

I certainly don't disagree that your scenario is likely, especially if the UID is not MontanaMan's Andrea, but I don't see why that precludes investigating other avenues as well.

 

[zwiebel]

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1062dfdeu.html


Hermert, circa 1990

Christina Hermert
Missing since January 20, 1990 from Halle/Saale, Germany.
Classification: Missing



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: January 6, 1968
Age at Time of Disappearance: 24 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 165 cm (5'4")
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Curly brown hair of medium length. Slim build. Her maiden name is "Rolle".
Clothing: She was last seen wearing a light grey sweater; a green flannel skirt; a beige jacket and grey shoes size 36. She was carrying a black shoulder bag.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Circumstances of Disappearance
Christina Hermert disappeared from Halle/Saale on 20 January 1990. She was last seen by neighbors during the evening hours.
She had lived apart from her husband since August 1989 but both were still living in the same house.
They have two children together. In late 1989, Hermert had started working in order to get sole custody of her children. No reasons are known why she would have left her children.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A complete long shot but something about her face just reminded me of this Jane Doe. No idea why or how she would have gotten from Germany to the USA though!

I see what you mean, she has that same long length between her nose an upper lip. She was brought up behind the iron curtain and would have learnt Russian as a second language and, just maybe, a bit of English. I would have thought she'd have had a strong accent.

She was about to try for sole custody of her children. One's with Grandma now, one with Dad. I don't think she left the country. In fact, I think she may not have gone far at all. Here's a link to the translated German page about her, if you're interested.

http://tinyurl.com/aojdp88

 

[momtolil]

Check out what I found on FB Batcave,Deathrock,And cryptic Afterpunk - this is just a fan page dedicated to the origional 80s batcave scene as well as the deathrock and dark afterpunk scene

There are photos too!

Thanks for posting the page about the Batcave and the whole scene. It really does give a good picture of what it was like.

I grew up not far from where "Andrea" was found in Huntington Beach. I do remember seeing people dressed like that in the downtown area in the early eighties. I was very young and probably afraid of them

I do remember in the 7th grade (1987) many kids started coming to school wearing the white goth makeup and black clothes. Being a beach town, they really stood out. I remember these types all the way through High School. They were called Death Rockers, Goth or Doom and Gloomers.

So I'm guessing there must have been a scene or "Batcave" sort of place they hung out in Huntington. Just have no idea where it would have been or what happened to these kids I knew.

Always being open minded, I was friendly with all the different clicks in school I knew alot of them. I'm trying to rack my brain to see if any of these kids are still local so I can ask.

 

[zwiebel]

Is there any way we can get a picture of the motel key? For all we know, it could still exist, with the same keys - or have an owner/worker who might recognise an old key. If we could find the hotel, there's a chance we could find what name she registered under.

Does anyone know how much publicity Andrea's case achieved at the time of her death? Was a picture of the key put out with an appeal for information? I hope so.