CA - Jaycee Dugard, 11, South Lake Tahoe, 10 June 1991 - #2

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Ah, sorry my friend. The president cannot use federal military troops or resources to aid local law enforcement. It's called the Posse Comitatus Act. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

I fully agree with you about the Act...however, there was a little matter of a sniper shooting in AL recently where they used military to quell the crowds without notifying the Governor. There was a stink in the local media, that died quickly. I do not think that this administration would let the Act prevent them, should they decide it was in their interest to get involved.
 
This case is still so tragic for a lot of us that I hope we will still be able to
have this discussion thread--at least for a little while longer.

I know that there are lots of threads already set up for some of the topics, and I have been utilizing them, but there is also a lot of general information type stuff that is coming out.

Keeping my fingers crossed that the discussion thread will stay at least for a while longer.

I like to forewarn people when trial comes or as more in depth information is revealed it is so hard to find all the previous hard work and research on the issue because it is buried on the general discussion thread.

I suspect this will go away at some point it but not right away and will probably give you plenty of notice. :)
 
I am getting lost in this thread as it is moving so quickly. I just have one question: Are these reports of orgies and Jaycee being pimped out coming from any credible sources or is this just all speculation and tabloid sensationlism?

The same info is also on cbs5. The same neighbor is interviewed at the end of the video. Is cbs5 considered a crebible source?

http://cbs5.com/video/?id=54682@kpix.dayport.com
 
I fully agree with you about the Act...however, there was a little matter of a sniper shooting in AL recently where they used military to quell the crowds without notifying the Governor. There was a stink in the local media, that died quickly. I do not think that this administration would let the Act prevent them, should they decide it was in their interest to get involved.
Actually, President George W. Bush's administration got an exception piece of legislation so the feds could respond in cases of emergency like Katrina, but President Obama's administration reversed that. :angel:
 
Then the act needs to be changed-period end of story,If Jaycee had been a prisoner of war,subject to the same mind F---,for 18 yrs,and the torture that she endured she would have been rescued,if possible by our troups,and then would be a decorated war hero.Maybe this is the law now.but let's change it,it obviously is not working,for the children or victums in this country. The FBI is involved,let's get others involved as well!!!@
Sorry. Martial law could be the alternative. We don't want that. The military needs to be under the civilian authorities. Local law enforcement, state law enforcement, the FBI and the US Marshal Service are really well trained and funded for most things. The federal military resources have enough on their plates and resources are more scarce there than you think. They have enough tasks to do. The jurisdictional reaches and areas of responsibility have been crafted through long history and experience -- not years or decades, but centuries. It works the way it is. It is a long topic and too much to go into here -- the doctrines.
 
Okay, here is what I keep thinking...just how many more cases like this are out there that we just don't know about? That haven't yet (and may never) be discovered? We had Shawn, the daughter in Aussie, the other girl in England somewhere I believe? It just freaks me out that these things DO happen and no one notices or if they do don't react on their feelings of "something isn't right". What a crazy world we live in.
 
Ack, is this thread going to go presidential now? Sorry, I don't think having the President and the "troops" involved would have mattered here. You still need to know where a person is to send the Rangers and their Blackhawks in. I mean if we start sending military troops in to solve local LE problems, we are going to start looking like China.
 
Then the act needs to be changed-period end of story,If Jaycee had been a prisoner of war,subject to the same mind F---,for 18 yrs,and the torture that she endured she would have been rescued,if possible by our troups,and then would be a decorated war hero.Maybe this is the law now.but let's change it,it obviously is not working,for the children or victums in this country. The FBI is involved,let's get others involved as well!!!@

this law is to protect us from our government and from any leader who might try to become a dictator - our troops cannot be used against us - this should never be changed.
 
Okay, here is what I keep thinking...just how many more cases like this are out there that we just don't know about? That haven't yet (and may never) be discovered? We had Shawn, the daughter in Aussie, the other girl in England somewhere I believe? It just freaks me out that these things DO happen and no one notices or if they do don't react on their feelings of "something isn't right". What a crazy world we live in.
It didn't used to be like this where neighbors would do nothing even if they knew. It is a relatively new social psychological phenomenon in our human experience that has been dubbed the "Genovese Syndrome" or "Bystander Effect." Let me tell you a story. I'll make it as short as possible because this effect was the subject of much heated debate in psychological and sociological classes in the 1960s. It was shortly after President John F. Kennedy was killed. I remember reading the news stories -- at that time we read newspapers. ;) It was on national television and Huntley and Brinkley reported. There wasn't any CNN, HNN or FOX news then. Before this event, which I am about to tell you, people did report things and get involved. Neighbors knew each other. We had parades on Main Street. Housewives got together for coffee about mid-morning. We had church events and youth organizations like Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts and every kid in your class (almost) was involved. Divorce was rare. It was really the Age of Camelot in the United States. Then, after President Kennedy's murder, things started to change. The nation was shocked. People started to retreat. Kitty Genovese was a 28 year old young woman of Italian American descent. She was stabbed to death in Queens, New York. It wasn't a silent murder. She was screaming for help. It was reported that numerous neighbors saw it or were fully aware but most were nonresponsive. There was a "diffusion of responsibility" and this reaction shocked the nation. The trend continued and today it has become the norm. People don't want to "get involved."
 
I know people have a hard time catching up when all the thoughts end up on one thread and i know that it can be helpful to have compartmentalized subjects, but those have their own problems. I wanted to reply to someone about something, went looking for the source, and had to search for an hour before finding which thread it was I wanted to reply to. There is a LOT of overlap between the general thread and the "Backyard" "neighbor's backyard" "other victims" "other convictions" "Jaycee's girls" and etc threads. A lot!
SOmetimes I think it would be easier to scroll through the one!
 
I just heard on Fox News that Oprah Winfrey and others are putting out feelers for first interviews.

I have some words for Miss Winfrey, take your big butt and butt out!

These victims should never be exploited. This crime is so horrific,
that it will take years for the girls to heal not a week or two then on to the show circuit. The Media are the most insaitable monsters at times like this.
Winfrey should know better, and I am sure Dr. Phil is not far behind her.
Vultures!

This is going to sound terrible. But the media can be a circus if you are at the center of a sensationalist case. Everyone of them wants to be the first with the 'scoop.' If denied, they will receive continuous attention, constant pressure to give an interview.

Many people criticized the Hornbeck family because they took Shawn on TV after his return. But it is like taking off a bandaid. One jerk, then the pain gets less. If they do a story with one reputable media personality, if they make sure the questions are controlled then that can take a lot of the pressure from the media away. It is no longer 'new' news, no longer an exclusive.

So whether it is Oprah or whoever, it is usually a good idea to give at least one interview.
 
Just a heads up for those interested ~ Geraldo is talking about the case right now on Fox News Channel. :)
 
It didn't used to be like this where neighbors would do nothing even if they knew. It is a relatively new social psychological phenomenon in our human experience that has been dubbed the "Genovese Syndrome" or "Bystander Effect." Let me tell you a story. I'll make it as short as possible because this effect was the subject of much heated debate in psychological and sociological classes in the 1960s. It was shortly after President John F. Kennedy was killed. I remember reading the news stories -- at that time we read newspapers. ;) It was on national television and Huntley and Brinkley reported. There wasn't any CNN, HNN or FOX news then. Before this event, which I am about to tell you, people did report things and get involved. Neighbors knew each other. We had parades on Main Street. Housewives got together for coffee about mid-morning. We had church events and youth organizations like Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts and every kid in your class (almost) was involved. Divorce was rare. It was really the Age of Camelot in the United States. Then, after President Kennedy's murder, things started to change. The nation was shocked. People started to retreat. Kitty Genovese was a 28 year old young woman of Italian American descent. She was stabbed to death in Queens, New York. It wasn't a silent murder. She was screaming for help. It was reported that numerous neighbors saw it or were fully aware but most were nonresponsive. There was a "diffusion of responsibility" and this reaction shocked the nation. The trend continued and today it has become the norm. People don't want to "get involved."

It is that and more. One neighbor did call. Police came and probably the neighborhood thought they investigated. Nothing happened. So what are the neighbors to do then? I mean it was investigated and nothing happened. So everything is ok right?

It happens a lot. Complaints to police, to CPS or other agencies. Usually it is one call. Then if nothing is done, neighbors either decide that nothing can be done about it or there is nothing happening and they learn to live with it.
 
Just a heads up for those interested ~ Geraldo is talking about the case right now on Fox News Channel. :)

Watching it now! Geraldo is interviewing Haydee Perry, a neighbor who lived next door to Garrido. She felt something was wrong, but when she mentioned it to another neighbor, she was told that someone had already called police who investigated. She said Garrido tried to preach his religion to her, and one time patted her knee and said if she ever needed a place to stay, she could come stay with him.
 
It didn't used to be like this where neighbors would do nothing even if they knew. It is a relatively new social psychological phenomenon in our human experience that has been dubbed the "Genovese Syndrome" or "Bystander Effect." Let me tell you a story. I'll make it as short as possible because this effect was the subject of much heated debate in psychological and sociological classes in the 1960s. It was shortly after President John F. Kennedy was killed. I remember reading the news stories -- at that time we read newspapers. ;) It was on national television and Huntley and Brinkley reported. There wasn't any CNN, HNN or FOX news then. Before this event, which I am about to tell you, people did report things and get involved. Neighbors knew each other. We had parades on Main Street. Housewives got together for coffee about mid-morning. We had church events and youth organizations like Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts and every kid in your class (almost) was involved. Divorce was rare. It was really the Age of Camelot in the United States. Then, after President Kennedy's murder, things started to change. The nation was shocked. People started to retreat. Kitty Genovese was a 28 year old young woman of Italian American descent. She was stabbed to death in Queens, New York. It wasn't a silent murder. She was screaming for help. It was reported that numerous neighbors saw it or were fully aware but most were nonresponsive. There was a "diffusion of responsibility" and this reaction shocked the nation. The trend continued and today it has become the norm. People don't want to "get involved."

Bolded by me. I hear you! I hear this from my hubby often. He's 61, I'm 48 so way different upbringings so to speak. And I do remember hearing about the story of the woman that was stapped. :( But I can say this...everyone that knows me knows how noisy I am. I watch my surroundings and I would report something in a heart beat. But that's just me. And I'm not sorry for it, not one bit. Neither are my neighbors who appreciate that I keep an eye on things. It's time people started getting involved again, don't you think? Again, a crazy world we live in.
 
Geraldo said that after the break Carl Probyn will be back and they will be taking viewer's phone calls
 
It is that and more. One neighbor did call. Police came and probably the neighborhood thought they investigated. Nothing happened. So what are the neighbors to do then? I mean it was investigated and nothing happened. So everything is ok right?

It happens a lot. Complaints to police, to CPS or other agencies. Usually it is one call. Then if nothing is done, neighbors either decide that nothing can be done about it or there is nothing happening and they learn to live with it.
What they need to do is go up the chain. Report again on a different shift. Make sure other people hear it. Report to a different agency. Make noise and lots of it. If necessary, call the County Board of Supervisors! In this case, it was a University Campus Police Officer who responded. Child Protective Services, the Sheriff's Office, Probation Offices -- all work for the County Board of Supervisors. Local police work for the Mayor and City Council. Parole Officers work for the State. Find out who they work for and make a second or third call.
 
Watching it now! Geraldo is interviewing Haydee Perry, a neighbor who lived next door to Garrido. She felt something was wrong, but when she mentioned it to another neighbor, she was told that someone had already called police who investigated. She said Garrido tried to preach his religion to her, and one time patted her knee and said if she ever needed a place to stay, she could come stay with him.
Hi Leila! You know, it's cases like this that make me glad my neighborhood has small back yards where nothing like what was going on in that yard could be hidden. I found it interesting that she said it was only the 11 y/o who she saw and not the other girl. And Jaycee was being passed off as the "older sister". Very strange. I wonder who these girls call "mom"? :eek:
 
It didn't used to be like this where neighbors would do nothing even if they knew. It is a relatively new social psychological phenomenon in our human experience that has been dubbed the "Genovese Syndrome" or "Bystander Effect." Let me tell you a story. I'll make it as short as possible because this effect was the subject of much heated debate in psychological and sociological classes in the 1960s. It was shortly after President John F. Kennedy was killed. I remember reading the news stories -- at that time we read newspapers. ;) It was on national television and Huntley and Brinkley reported. There wasn't any CNN, HNN or FOX news then. Before this event, which I am about to tell you, people did report things and get involved. Neighbors knew each other. We had parades on Main Street. Housewives got together for coffee about mid-morning. We had church events and youth organizations like Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts and every kid in your class (almost) was involved. Divorce was rare. It was really the Age of Camelot in the United States. Then, after President Kennedy's murder, things started to change. The nation was shocked. People started to retreat. Kitty Genovese was a 28 year old young woman of Italian American descent. She was stabbed to death in Queens, New York. It wasn't a silent murder. She was screaming for help. It was reported that numerous neighbors saw it or were fully aware but most were nonresponsive. There was a "diffusion of responsibility" and this reaction shocked the nation. The trend continued and today it has become the norm. People don't want to "get involved."

I remember when KItty Genovese was stabbed to death and people were stunned that no one came to that poor woman's aid.

I think that for many many years people didn't want to get involved, and that became the new norm. But in more recent times, since September 11, 2001, and learning how people on flight 93 fought back and tried to overtake the terrorists, the trend is now changing. We've seen incidents happen in recent times where people have jumped in and become involved.

When the airplane crashed into the Hudson River earlier this year, many people sprung into action to help save those in the water.
 
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